CPS approving evidence

Are you going through an investigation now? Tell your story and get feedback here.

Moderators: family_man, LindaJM

StevenP
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

CPS approving evidence

Postby StevenP » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:01 am

In our case that we are going through we were told by the court appointed lawyer she cannot submit evidence unless CPS agrees to it? We submitted some information and CPS told the lawyer at first that they did not want it as evidence. After that later on that day she got another email saying that it was not going to be paperwork that judge was going to see but was going to be mentioned in the court trial. So my question why would CPS dictate what evidence can or cannot be seen the judge? Why does CPS intercept the files before given to the judge and leave or pull paperwork? If this evidence is to prove your innocence, is this the way that they make sure you are stuck in the system?

Court case is in Santa Cruz county, California

User avatar
good dad
Site Admin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby good dad » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:35 am

So my question why would CPS dictate what evidence can or cannot be seen the judge? Why does CPS intercept the files before given to the judge and leave or pull paperwork? If this evidence is to prove your innocence, is this the way that they make sure you are stuck in the system?


They can't.... Either you have a "fresh out of law school" lawyer, a lazy lawyer who doesn't want to make waves or a lawyer who believes whatever CPS says they can do...

Your lawyer is submitting evidence to CPS instead of filing it with the court.. If it was filed with the court, the judge would get a copy of the paperwork at the same time CPS did...

I can't believe a lawyer would ask the enemy in a case (prosecuting side) if they could enter evidence to help the defense's case... And when they say "No", kinda shrug their shoulders, say "Ok" and walk away...

??????HOW DOES SHE THINK SHE CAN EVER WIN A CASE WITHOUT ENTERING EVIDENCE????? :x :x :x :x :x
*********************
My advice is my opinion and not legal advice
*********************
A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby Eljay » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:44 am

Are you kidding me??? That's absurd. good dad has it right. Ask to speak to your lawyer's senior/manager. Sure, CPS doesn't want you presenting anything that shows they are lying/incompetent, but they don't get to decide!!!!!

You also need to get your child(ren)'s attorneys on board with fighting to reunite you. Any court hearing is going to have a group of attorneys as part of the 'legal team' (CPS, an atty for each child (sometimes combined), atty for father, atty for mother) and they all chat beforehand and read the papers, then they decide what they're going to tell the judge. If they don't agree beforehand, the judge will decide. If you can get mom's, dad's AND the kid's attorneys on the same page, you've got a better chance of having things go in your favor.
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

StevenP
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby StevenP » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:32 pm

I knew that is all wrong. I wish I could explain my case but just writing it out on paper has already taken 8 pages on the computer and I am still barely scratching the surface. I am glad to know that this is wrong. I would like to know how to go around this? The court appointed lawyer even told us that any new findings she has, my GF is not to know about it until the day of the court date. I think that is bologna. How is it that you can proof your innocence 10 minutes before the courts starts? Now I am being sarcastic. It just seems we are being set-up for failure.

Just to give a little bit of what happen in the last court date:

Lawyer said she did not want to talk to me because she did not know me. (yes that is what she told my GF)
She is not sure how I am going to respond if I am put on the stand.
We found out the cops issued a warrant for me and my GF three days after my GF daughters were taken away. The cops did not have a warrant at the time they took the girls CPS said the girls were in immediate danger.
They did not want to give the girls back to us because our house rules were to harsh not age appropriate. So after the initial allegation of me and my GF spanking our kids it came down to the house rules. WTH!!
My GF did submit paperwork before our very first court date and it was pulled out by CPS before given to the judge. Am I missing something? is Criminal court that different from Family Law?

User avatar
monkette31
Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:12 am
Location: Los Angeles, California
Contact:

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby monkette31 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:22 pm

Criminal court is definitely different than Children's Court. Children's court is a form of civil court.

I'm in Southern California, Los Angeles area: California's CPS system was radically changed in 1990, all because of this law:
http://law.justia.com/cases/california/ ... 1/368.html , known as the re: Melinda S. case. Basically what it says that social worker reports are taken into evidence as FACTS, no longer can be considered hearsay....this is the supreme court California decision and affects all 20 counties in California.

...so that is why you YOU must do the work to submit your evidence, affidavit, objection and corrections to the social worker's report and if you haven't had one yet, you MUST take the case to trial, or none of your side of the story will ever be on record.

...those court appointed lawyers, all of them, are in collusion with DCFS, I think you should file a formal complaint about the lawyer doing/saying that they will not file your paperwork for you. Your copy needs to be stamped and YOU keep that as evidence. From what happens down here is that DCFS makes their 300 petition without question, all children are detained, TRIALS are discouraged by cps lawyers in the form of THREATS that you will not get your children back if you fight, Threats your children will be held in custody longer,...too numerous are the abuses of the in cahoots legal systems.

...down here this is a formal complaint process the courthouse has and uses....where the lawyer must respond in writing to them. I never saw the responses to them but was told my new lawyer and eventually new law firm (same court appointed pool down here, ladlinc), the reason for their new presence was I was complaining....

Have you had a trial or did you stipulate and go on with the DCFS caseplan yet?
I'm not a lawyer but will try and help you any way i can. My postings may seem harsh but they all stem from personal experience with DCFS. I am not a victim and take responsibility for my part in my life, but I will always help ANYONE learn about the corrupt sick system.

User avatar
good dad
Site Admin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby good dad » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:30 pm

My GF did submit paperwork before our very first court date and it was pulled out by CPS before given to the judge.


Who did she give it to?


is Criminal court that different from Family Law?


Yep.... Criminals have rights... Family/Civil court your treated as if you have no rights until you tell them what your rights are.. Family court any allegation made by CPS is considered "FACT" till you dispute it and enter evidence to prove it's false or explain your version of the details that supports "a more believable explanation" of what happened..
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

User avatar
monkette31
Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:12 am
Location: Los Angeles, California
Contact:

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby monkette31 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:37 pm

They do this to all of us, the lawyers do not act in our interests at all, they do not do as we direct them to do, they do not investigate the cases BEFOREHAND, they do not INTERVIEW us, they do not tell of our right to TRIAL.....

....and they just keep extending cases, children never come home at the 6 month hearing, stretched out to 12 and then at 18 mos, they file a TPR and claim that we have had DUE PROCESS, the system that affords us our rights....half the problem is CPS, the other half is the LEGAL system...

....when you file your appeal, they will claim that you never submitted any evidence of this or that, that they were not aware....

....I was a children's court last week, there was a lady down at the clerk's office trying to file paperwork, they took it and said they filed it, I told her that she needed to have it stamped as filed so she went back and got it stamped. I also filed during court, but saw the paperwork being placed in the judges file, no stamp...i am sure they would later have those papers taken out of the file, had they filed TPR on our family....

---you want to file the lawyer complaint, keep a copy...keep filing things...your sheepherding lawyer won't do it because yes, they are straight out of law school or they know to go along with the current system, letting these courts steal children...
I'm not a lawyer but will try and help you any way i can. My postings may seem harsh but they all stem from personal experience with DCFS. I am not a victim and take responsibility for my part in my life, but I will always help ANYONE learn about the corrupt sick system.

StevenP
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby StevenP » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:37 pm

Ok,

So I feel that there has been so many discrepancies. I think the reason they took our girls is because my GF went and wanted to resind her signature and put on under duress. The second initial contact they had made, the CPS supervisor said that if my GF did not sign the action plan they would remove the girls from the home. I had said that I had a lawyer and if they wanted to talk to me to contact her first. Till this day they have charged accused me sent me some paper about being on some child abuse indexing. Other than that. OH and I did meet up with them once , but they would only do it I did not have a lawyer. No one had nothing bad to say about me. Not even the mother of bio father.

Everything is going to be taken to trial. The only reason that they did not let the girls come home was because the house rules were not age appropriate. They felt they were to harsh. In our family we have 4 week old baby (which they petitioned to take away)<--- wanted to post more details about what is happening with her. When all under the same roof: 4,5,6,10,12 yer old children and we had to make the rules easy to remember for all ages. Every where I have gone including kidshealth.com gives guidelines and also tell you to have ten rules so we don't over load our children. GUIDELINES! I did not know no kicking, screaming, hitting, spitting, running (in the house), do your chores, tell the truth, don't go in the kitchen(without permission) and tell the truth were harsh for all those ages. Am I wrong?

We are not doing any plan because from the get go we were looking for a counselor to find out what was the miss communication between us and our 6 yr old. So we are taking this to trial on Monday. I will be taking the stand. finally was talked to by the C A Lawyer. We have followed all many suggestions from websites like this one and they have said any time you submitted paperwork get it stamped. Like I said on our initial court after they took our girls she got all papers back including her declaration. It still had the stamp that it was submitted through the court clerk. Some how CPS got a hold of the file and all or most if remember correctly was given back.

When my GF had the baby they went to visit us at the hospital. Given her past she was tested for everything. She has been sober for more than 2 years. So through the pregnancy ALL test came out clear they even took urine samples and feces as well. Everything came back negative. The worker at the time said they just wanted to check on the well being of the child. But all of a sudden they are wanting to take her as well.

StevenP
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby StevenP » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:51 pm

To give some detail of our court. For Santa Cruz county all courts used to be done in city of Santa Cruz. A few years ago they built a new one in Watsonville. That is where they moved all divorces and family law issues to Watsonville. There is only one judge that does Family law and two c a Lawyers. The other one knows less than the other. As far as I know this lawyer has been doing this for a while. Half the time you can't understand what she says cause she has the Arnold S. accent.

Because I am not being represented I can submit a formal complaint. What I will do is relay this to my GF.

One more thing I wanted to say or ask. It seems like the judge is behind a wall from CPS. How can we have the judge see what we think is important to our case? It just seems like you really can't unless CPS sees it first and approves it.

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby Eljay » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:31 pm

I'd call your county district attorney and tell them what your attorney said and that from what you've learned, CPS is blocking your rights to present evidence to the court and your county-paid defense atty doesn't know any better.

You could also reach out for help from the state ombudsman. (goooogle it)
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

User avatar
monkette31
Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:12 am
Location: Los Angeles, California
Contact:

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby monkette31 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:34 am

Yep, I agree with Eljay because I have read a few cases and this is exactly what they'll use to terminate her rights, they will say that she submitted no evidence, nothing on record. Also you stated you have TRIAL on monday? Under civil code, I believe you have the absolute right to cross examine the person who has made the report, in any trial that you have. This is so important that you insist that the report writer, assuming it's the social worker you've been having contact with, be there and be cross examined....

....http://courtinfo.ca.gov/cms/rules/index ... =rule5_674

These are California rules of the court, specifically dealing with dependency. Rule 5.674
I'm not a lawyer but will try and help you any way i can. My postings may seem harsh but they all stem from personal experience with DCFS. I am not a victim and take responsibility for my part in my life, but I will always help ANYONE learn about the corrupt sick system.

User avatar
good dad
Site Admin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby good dad » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:34 am

Also you stated you have TRIAL on monday? Under civil code, I believe you have the absolute right to cross examine the person who has made the report, in any trial that you have. This is so important that you insist that the report writer, assuming it's the social worker you've been having contact with, be there and be cross examined....


Yes, any document submitted at the trial, the person who wrote it will be there or else you can "object to have the document removed from the record"...

A little run down on civil court... Each side has to disclose their witness list a week before trial, I'm assuming your GF's lawyer didn't disclose any witnesses to be called on your behalf... When their witnesses are on the stand and it is time to cross-examine them, your lawyer can't just ask them anything, they are the "prosecutions" witnesses... Your lawyer can only ask questions that relate to an answer they gave from questions asked by the prosecutor while on the stand or you will hear "object"

In order to ask them any question your lawyer needed to add each CPS worker as a witness for your side...Yes they can be listed as witnesses for both sides..

Also, If all the children are your GF's and your not the father to any of them (?), this is why you weren't appointed a lawyer. Your not considered a party in the case..
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

User avatar
monkette31
Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:12 am
Location: Los Angeles, California
Contact:

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby monkette31 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:07 pm

Yes, and also I don't understand the registry thing either. Are you on the California registry already? Impossible!...well, maybe from a previous instance or case? As of Jan of this year ONLY substantiated (convictions in this kangaroo court) are to be placed on registry, all others, even from the past are to be removed.

I think Monday, your GF needs to direct her lawyer to place the report writers (investigating social worker and anyone else you've had contact with at dcfs) on the witness list, you really need to be able to cross examine the ho, in order to explain that you did agree to voluntary services but under threat or duress, that when you sought to rescind your signature, the kids were taken.

They will probably try and overtake your GF anyways without you in the courtroom, please INSIST on trial and get your statement submitted, do you have any other statements from docs or therapists or teachers or family friends that you can submit as well? I think any and all you can do now is this as later without the trial, the record of trial details, the submitted evidence, when they want to terminate your GF rights, after a year or so of living in complete hell, they will have all this initial trial stuff on the record AND you can use it in your APPEAL...

You can use your lawyer formal complaint as well, if the lawyer continues to not be a lawyer. Your county has a contract with the STATE of California, millions of dollars, 32 million down here although this year that probably went up. In the contract, it says each appointed lawyer much INVESTIGATE the case beforehand, INTERVIEW witnesses, detail time spent with client and they later send these bills in....
I'm not a lawyer but will try and help you any way i can. My postings may seem harsh but they all stem from personal experience with DCFS. I am not a victim and take responsibility for my part in my life, but I will always help ANYONE learn about the corrupt sick system.

User avatar
good dad
Site Admin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby good dad » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:24 pm

I think Monday, your GF needs to direct her lawyer to place the report writers (investigating social worker and anyone else you've had contact with at dcfs) on the witness list,


Her lawyer would have had to turn over their witness list to the prosecutor a week ago monday.. It's to late to add or even present a witness list... If the prosecution didn't disclose their witnesses to her lawyer by last monday, they can't call any either This is typical of every state, I don't think Cali. is any different..

Her lawyer needs to write down each answer the witness gives and develop her questions to relate to witnesses answers.. If the witness slips up and reveals new information, the lawyer can then ask any question regarding this new info...

It's a chess game...
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby Eljay » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:06 pm

StevenP wrote:Till this day they have charged accused me sent me some paper about being on some child abuse indexing. Other than that. OH and I did meet up with them once , but they would only do it I did not have a lawyer. No one had nothing bad to say about me. Not even the mother of bio father.


Could you clarify please... they charged you with something? Or no? Accused you of what? And if the *DID* send you a paper that indicated you were on the CACI, get that appeal going NOW! You've only got 30 days or something to appeal and you've got to get it started, just in case you should ever have or want a job where you're working near children.

StevenP wrote:screaming, hitting, spitting, running (in the house), do your chores, tell the truth, don't go in the kitchen(without permission) and tell the truth were harsh for all those ages. Am I wrong?


The only thing that sounds odd to me is not being allowed in the kitchen without permission. They are going to twist that up into a huge issue. I cannot fathom why you would verbally forbid them from going into the kitchen without permission... what's the point of that? They're going to make it sound like you are denying them access to food. If there is something unsafe, get it out of the kitchen or put locks on. If you don't want them there, put up a gate, but food, bed and bathroom are basic necessities and to deny them free access to any of those rooms seems odd, IMHO.
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

StevenP
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby StevenP » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:56 am

monkette31 wrote:Yep, I agree with Eljay because I have read a few cases and this is exactly what they'll use to terminate her rights, they will say that she submitted no evidence, nothing on record. Also you stated you have TRIAL on monday? Under civil code, I believe you have the absolute right to cross examine the person who has made the report, in any trial that you have. This is so important that you insist that the report writer, assuming it's the social worker you've been having contact with, be there and be cross examined....

....http://courtinfo.ca.gov/cms/rules/index ... =rule5_674

These are California rules of the court, specifically dealing with dependency. Rule 5.674


There has been so many things that are not right. First of all CPS had already made so many court dates ahead of time like they knew it was going to be dragged on. When all this happened in November of 2011 a stand in judge heard the case. The original judge had gone on vacation. He was from another department. So this is also something that makes sense. I am trying to go by memory at this point. On the initial court that we had my GF did not have a lawyer they had given 24 hrs to look for one. When she went to that trial they had the CPS worker on the stand. She was back tracking on so many things it was not even funny. She kept on looking at her notes so much and she was even caught on a couple of lies. Correct me if I am wrong, but in criminal that is tampering with evidence or something like. What she lied she only had one interview with our girls. After moving on she had mentioned that when she spoke with the our six year old the second time and that is where she was caught. Yet my GF did not jump on that at all. She gave the "no more questions your honor". She even lied about the safety plan that my GF did not want to follow the safety and that is why the girls were removed from our home. My GF had all that conversation recorded and she also transcribed. All my GF was trying to resind her signature and add "under duress". All that information was submitted to court and CPS intercepted and returned back to my GF by her lawyer.

The second CPS worker was also put on stand she lied as well. Even ending things with she was gonna make my GF sign the action plan no matter what. We are asking for the transcripts of that court date. So there was certain things that were said and judge did not even say anything. The only thing that the judge said about the service plan was that it was made like a grocery list. The following court date nothing was done because the judge wanted to go on her Christmas vacation. So we were in there for like to minutes and it ended just like that. I did not even get a chance to take off my jacket when it was over.

StevenP
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby StevenP » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:23 am

good dad wrote:
Also, If all the children are your GF's and your not the father to any of them (?), this is why you weren't appointed a lawyer. Your not considered a party in the case..


I will have to apologize for my ignorance in this whole thing. I am taking this as life lesson and I am trying to learn from it as much as I can. As far as I know I am also being accused. Yes they also did send me a bunch of papers and the first one said something to as "child abuse indexing. I just don't have those papers in front of me. I am also being accused, but like I said I was not contacted by letter or anything. It just seems they are not saying anything to me because I said I had a real lawyer. Aside from hearing my GF lawyer tell me there was a request for a warrant that was submitted three days after the girls were taken away. To me it does not make any sense, if someone can explain that one to me. I think that the cops were just trying to cover themselves. Since they did not have a warrant at the time they took the girls. Or maybe one thing does not pertain to the other?

So I am being accused that of child abuse. The only time I was contacted was through my GF by CPS that they wanted to interview me. They told my GF that there was a previous case the CPS worker was involved where the parents had a lawyer and they were found guilty. They also told her that since I was not cooperating they were going to relay that to the judge. Even when I had sent them a letter stating that I would cooperate as long as my lawyer was present. To them I was still not cooperating. My GF was afraid that was going to work against us and I ended up meeting with them without a lawyer.

StevenP
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby StevenP » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:30 am

good dad wrote:
Her lawyer needs to write down each answer the witness gives and develop her questions to relate to witnesses answers.. If the witness slips up and reveals new information, the lawyer can then ask any question regarding this new info...

It's a chess game...



Ok so this seems awfully strange then because my GF has me going on the stand. She told me this on Thursday when we went over comments I had made to the CPS worker the day they interviewed me. Or does that not pertain to me only the CPS workers? If it is for all witnesses then why was included this past Thursday for out court this upcoming monday 2/06/12. Or are we being set up by both CPS and my GF lawyer?

StevenP
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby StevenP » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:59 am

Eljay wrote:
The only thing that sounds odd to me is not being allowed in the kitchen without permission. They are going to twist that up into a huge issue. I cannot fathom why you would verbally forbid them from going into the kitchen without permission... what's the point of that? They're going to make it sound like you are denying them access to food. If there is something unsafe, get it out of the kitchen or put locks on. If you don't want them there, put up a gate, but food, bed and bathroom are basic necessities and to deny them free access to any of those rooms seems odd, IMHO.


It is not that we are denying them access to the kitchen. Just that times that we have been in the kitchen cooking or cleaning. They have come up to us and we have bumped into them or stepping on there feet because they are right behind looking at what we are doing. Our kitchen is not big at all. The kitchen table is more part of the living room than the actual kitchen. We are not denying them food. There has been instances where they go in there and grab something before dinner and then they don't want to eat their dinner because they already ate something. This messes up their eating schedules and habits as well. In order to have structure that is why it is a rule. My children have bad eating habits because their mother does not have any type of structure.

Now you mention "put up a gate" would'nt that be the same thing? Just seems that I we were to do that now there is a physical gate and I am still the gate keeper. So instead of taking it that far we just want to know what they are going into the kitchen for. A kitchen just does not seem really a place where a child should be anyways.

I can see where you say it can be twisted. You may be playing devil's advocate and I appreciate it because you see it like that why wouldn't CPS? Even when we have the child best interest and safety in mind. I think I should post the actual rules and get feedback. Maybe we are in the wrong. My guidance has been several sites on the web including kidshealth.com and other sites that even foster parents have. One thing we do have is that the rules can be changed they are not set in stone. Besides like I said since we do have a wide range of ages we tried to blanket all of them.

Now that I look at it, if I have to take all this time just to explain one rule then maybe I should change it. bottom line denying food was never the intention, but is'nt most laws set in our lives the same?

User avatar
good dad
Site Admin
Posts: 1589
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:11 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby good dad » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:32 am

Or does that not pertain to me only the CPS workers?


Any of the prosecution (CPS) witnesses called to the stand that are NOT also listed on your witness list.. If the worker(s) are not on your list, your gf's lawyer can only ask them questions that relate to answers they gave to the questions asked by the prosecutor.. The gf's lawyer can ask you whatever she wants....

If your not listed on the prosecutors witness list, the prosecutor can only ask you questions that relate to answers you gave to the questions asked by the gf's lawyer..

Aside from hearing my GF lawyer tell me there was a request for a warrant that was submitted three days after the girls were taken away. To me it does not make any sense, if someone can explain that one to me. I think that the cops were just trying to cover themselves. Since they did not have a warrant at the time they took the girls. Or maybe one thing does not pertain to the other?


1. CPS will say anything, there is no warrant, if there was the police would have arrested you by now.. There isn't enough evidence to charge you criminally..


2. The police didn't take the children, CPS did and they don't need a warrant, they only need to show the children were in "Imminent Danger"... The police were there as "back-up" for CPS
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby Eljay » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:11 am

StevenP wrote:It is not that we are denying them access to the kitchen.


Let's not mince words... yes, you are denying them access to the kitchen because you have restrictions that say that they CANNOT go in the kitchen without permission. I'm not arguing with you as to whether or not it's a good idea... Lord knows my children were well familiar with what we called "the elbow zone" from about 4 yrs old to 6 yrs old when they'd be standing right behind us and get an elbow to the forehead as we pulled back an arm from the sink or stove. The problem is, if CPS has a problem with that rule, the solution is changing the rule, NOT removing the children.

My issue with what they are doing here is where is the abuse or neglect??? If I were you, I'd approach this case as asking it to be dismissed because they have NO JURISDICTION. They only have authority (or jurisdiction, in legal terms) over abused and neglected children. Look up the state definition/penal code for exactly what "child abuse" and "child neglect" are defined as. A huge problem with CPS is that they like to slap labels on things that just don't belong. Unless there is more that you are not telling us - or you don't know - then where is the abuse? Harsh rules are just harsh rules. Harsh is not abusive.

Sorry if you've already answered this, but what are the CONSEQUENCES for the children when they break the rules?
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby Eljay » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:16 am

monkette31 wrote:Yes, and also I don't understand the registry thing either. Are you on the California registry already? Impossible!...well, maybe from a previous instance or case? As of Jan of this year ONLY substantiated (convictions in this kangaroo court) are to be placed on registry, all others, even from the past are to be removed.


Are you sure it's only after being confirmed by the court? That would be nice, but in our case (in 2011), they sent off the CACI listing within a week of opening our case, long before they even took us to court. They never waited for the courts to 'substantiate' it... DCFS did that all on their own.
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby Eljay » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:19 am

Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

StevenP
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby StevenP » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:11 pm

Eljay wrote:

Sorry if you've already answered this, but what are the CONSEQUENCES for the children when they break the rules?


It depends on what rule is broken. Timeouts and loss of privileges are the most common ones that we have used. We try to find consequences that fit the crime.

StevenP
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:01 pm

Re: CPS approving evidence

Postby StevenP » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:45 pm

good dad wrote:
1. CPS will say anything, there is no warrant, if there was the police would have arrested you by now.. There isn't enough evidence to charge you criminally..


2. The police didn't take the children, CPS did and they don't need a warrant, they only need to show the children were in "Imminent Danger"... The police were there as "back-up" for CPS


Well for the first comment. My GF lawyer showed her a "request for warrant". For my GF it was penal code 272 PC ( contribute to the delinquency of a minor) and mine was 273 A (willful cruelty to child with possible injury/death). My request is being held by my GF's lawyer. This was all done by the officer that was there. It was attached to the "Narrative Report". So if they did not have enough evidence then why make the attempt? Especially when the children have been removed already and it has not gone through trial?

For Two, that is exactly what they said. This was after my GF went to resind her signature and sign UD on it. They twisted the whole thing and said she did want to follow the safety plan. This was all recorded and the CPS worker played dumb like she did not understand what it was that my GF was asking.

The way I see it is if they were in "immanent danger", why did they not take them the first day they were there? Why did the counselor let our six year old go when she said she had black marks on her butt after she got spanked? The only markings she had was on her thigh and it almost had the shape of a paw. Three small ones on top and a bigger one (thumb size). CPS even said themselves there was no linear marks on her no where on her bottom. The marks where not on her bottom they where on her side of the thigh and very faint. CPS had trouble taking pictures cause it would not come up on there camera. Our 5 year old did not have any marking what so ever. We all know kids get bruises, my oldest son who is 12 would have some really bad bruises from playing football. It looked like hands were being put on him.


Return to “CPS Investigations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests