Fighting for my grand sons and son

[JoeAnn55]

My son Tim and I are looking for help and answers.
I will start from the first appearance of CPS.

My son has lived with us for a while now, he had all 3 boys with him so we as a family have been helping him raise them. We have a stable loving home, the boys were happy
doing well. The were allowed to see their mother anytime she wanted them. she didn't want them for most of the time they were here. Wouldn't call, come see them or anything. Then all of the sudden out of the blue, shes wants the boys overnight, calls almost every day to talk to them. We thought " well about time you showed an interest in your own sons". This went on for about 2 months. Then out of the blue bam. I am sitting at my desk doing my home work when I hear this ruckus outside, when I opened my door there are two sheriffs outside manhandling my son up against out cyclone fenced gate. I yelled at them, what is going on?

2 CPS workers came to the gate and told him they were here because there had been a complaint of unsafe housing and the children were living in the middle of black mold. That he HAD to let them in and he refused, told them he did not trust them (with good cause) and they were not going in to his mothers (mine) home. They proceeded to call the Sheriff and when they showed up, Tim told them he did not want to talk to him without an attorney then when Tim turned to step back into the yard, they grabbed him telling him that he was going to talk to them. Forcing his arms behind his back but he had a hold of the wire and they couldn't get his hands free, he yelled for me to help him. I stepped up and put my hand on his chest and asked him to please calm down and that I would find out what was going on. He calmed down, allowed them to handcuff him and be put into the squad car.

Then the CPS came to me and told me that they were there to inspect my home to make sure it was clean and safe. My home was cluttered, I just lost both my remaining brothers to death a few months earlier, both my kids had moved in and there were boxes all over. I asked why and that's when they told me about the complaint and told me I HAD to let them enter my home and anybody that was still in my home had to leave. My husband is on oxygen 24/7, it is hard for him to do things, so he was still in bed and they demanded he get out of the bed and stand out side while they did an inspection. In the mean time the young Sheriff was telling me how sorry he was that he had to man handle my son. I explained to him that Tim has PTSD and don't ever just grab him. Talk to him and he will listen and do as you ask, but not if you grab him.

Then the CPS workers said the house was fine, the boys room was clean, the house was clean just the clutter of the boxes needed to be taken care of which I agreed with them. Now, my grandsons were at school, so it wasn't an emergency. when they showed up the second time they checked the house again and checked on the baby who was asleep in his bed. They told me everything looked great and the case was closed. I told them thank you and goodbye.

Then all of a sudden a week or two later I get this phone call from a CPS worker telling me that my grandsons were now safe with their mother who had taken them out of school and that they would not be coming back to our home. Needless to say my son blew a gasket and was not nice to the worker. She refused to return his calls. When she finally called back she would not tell him WHY they were taken just that they were safe with their mother. He kept asking at her to tell him what the allegations were and she refused, told him she would call back the next day at 8:30 am and tell him why.

When in fact when she did call, she made a smart remark about it being 8:32 am thinking he was to call her. That didn't start the call off well. She finally got angry and told him that his sons were afraid of him and that he abused them! That he was being abusive to HER on the phone, which was on speaker phone and I was sitting right there and he wasn't. He told her he was going to make a complaint against her. After that call was over he called her supervisor who informed him that she had told the CPS worker she was not to answer my sons calls, that if she even heard his voice on a answering machine she was to not answer it.

We went to court with the intent of temp custody, the judge wouldn't even allow my son to talk he gave the mother temp custody, said Tim was to serve the mother and the mother to serve him with the restraining order. Thats when we found out everything she had told CPS and the cops to get the order. So many lies, she told, we can prove most of them are lies. But how can we do that since we have to go to mediation and they say never to bad talk the other person?

We didn't know until last night in my researching things that we did NOT have to allow them into my home nor did they have the right to make everyone leave the house.
It was not an emergency, the kids were not there. We are going to fight back. Without money it will be hard but we are going to try.

Is there any help for us, since we are on SS and SSI? Any tips, or hints as to what we can or can not do?
Any help is appreciated.
Thank you.

------------- combining from second post ----------------
We are in the Redding / Anderson, Ca area. Shasta County

My son and I are fighting to have his 3 boys returned to us, his soon to be ex-wife out of the blue claimed he was abusive to his sons and sexually abused her.
CPS did a stand by while she took the kids out of school and refused to return them and CPS is standing behind her. We went to court with a protective order to get
temp custody, the judge didn't listen, in fact he just looked at my son turned to CPS and said her temp custody won.
The problem here is that we didn't know about the allegations until AFTER he was served with the restraining order, AFTER court.

[Eljay]

Your son is going to have to get his anger under control if he wants to have any chance of succeeding... they will blow that up into a complete mental instability label if it happens again. Since the allegations are false, he should have no problem maintaining confidence that he is right. His ex AND CPS will say things to light his fire and he's got to maintain composure.

His ex's actions look pretty darn transparent as an attempt to get full custody of the kids. Since the 'black mold' allegation didn't work, she went for the sexual abuse line. Interesting read here on how this can backfire: http://www.fathersmanifesto.net/armin.htm

If you can't afford to hire an attorney, then you'll have to take things into your own hands. First thing I would do is call the Sheriff and tell them you want a complete and thorough investigation done on the boys. The CPS "investigations" are a joke and the results are often bogus. CPS has huge financial incentives to get kids under their control whereas the Sheriff/police don't. You'll be far more likely to get an honest investigation out of them. They will have access to an investigator who specializes in interviewing children as victims of sexual abuse and they will be able to discern whether anything really happened. *YOU* need to call them and insist they do an investigation because if your son is innocent, then you want your grandchildren out of the hands of the lying woman who would say anything to get what she wants. And if he's guilty, then you don't want a child molester in your house for one second longer. You've got to be willing to throw him under the bus for the protection of the kids, if you want to get them back.

Once you get the results back, in writing, you will want to take that to mediation or court along with a "declaration of facts" stating how the boys have always lived with you/dad, how infrequently she came around, how detrimental this all is to them, etc. (look on the fightcps.com home page for the legal library). Once CPS takes a position, they are very unlikely to back down. You could take the police report to them that states that your son did NOT molest the boys and they would say, "well, we do our OWN investigation and what the police say doesn't matter." So, forget about trying to convince CPS... use the police/sheriff and the judge because CPS will be raking in the dough by having the kids in their legal custody and forcing everyone into their "services" for months or years on end.

I hope you have a copy of the CPS case workers report/petition. You'll also want (your son) to do a "corrections and objections to the report of the social worker" and refute all of the lies. Yes, you son did NOT get to speak at the first hearing.... you almost never get to (unless you've got a heads up on the petition which CPS will make nearly impossible by keeping it all a secret until you get to court). The time to defend yourself is at the trial, but that won't be for weeks or months. Also, become familiar with the law in California with regard to whatever they are alleging (abuse or neglect). Look here: http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/ ... ies/state/
or http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... 64-11174.3

CPS has a tendency to get absurd in labeling things as "sexual abuse" .... like if you take a shower with a 4 year old, some will call it "sexual abuse" when the law/definition does not specify any such activity as "sexual abuse." Be prepared to lay it out, line for line, if that is where they are going with their case. (as in, "the case worker claims sexual abuse, however per DOJ section 11001-12000 the case worker did not indicate anything in her report that falls into the category") ... but I'm getting way ahead of you now.

When is your next hearing/mediation?

[JoeAnn55]

Thank you so much for replying. First I must correct something. I guess I didn't make my self clear enough. She is not accusing him of sexually abusing the boys, but that he sexually abused HER. She is accusing him of physical abuse, the CPS stating that the boys are afraid of their father. That he spanks them and yells at them, causing them to be afraid. The second boy has played with matches 4 times, the last time he burned down the hay we had for the horses. So yes he was spanked and told what he did was wrong. He also bit his baby brothers ear so hard he left a deep bruise for a month. We realize the boys are acting out and have even asked the school for help in dealing with this problem.

No we don't have a copy of the CPS report for either visit by the first cps worker. The second one called only. We have no idea what has been said, just what the restraining order contains. Which even in that document, there is many mistakes and wrong information. I honestly didn't know we could get copies but will try today. She put down information that SHE had the boys when we actually had them and can prove it by the school records. They had a written piece of paper stating that she turned over the boys to him but they never filed it. I always thought a contract once written even if not filed in court was still valid to a point?

The next meeting is with a mediation on the 16th of this month. We are gathering all information we can against her. This woman had a sexual affair with one of her clients who is mentally disabled. Her boss and co workers are well aware of this fact but refuse to do anything about it. They still allow her to work there in the same place.
She was a stripper when he met her, was using drugs etc. My husband and I were very disappointed in our son but we accepted her in our home.

I also always thought if you were accused of something, they had to get your side of the story? CPS never talked to any of the neighbors, teachers at school etc. They didn't talk to us, just the 2 phone calls and that was it. They took the kids on her words alone.

I am willing to do what it takes to get those boys back home where they belong. I have kept a log of whats been going on, the times , dates, what shes been doing etc. I have pictures of her and the way she posed on her face book. I have videos where the boys are playing with their Dad etc.
Anything I can do to get the boys back I will do. I am a notary public and a Minister, but that doesnt seem to make a difference to any one but me.

Thank you so much for answering my post, your help is so welcomed. ~S~

[Eljay]

Thank you so much for replying. First I must correct something. I guess I didn't make my self clear enough. She is not accusing him of sexually abusing the boys, but that he sexually abused HER. She is accusing him of physical abuse,

This would be fought with a lack of history of police involvement. Go to the police and ask for any history of calls to the home they shared. If there are none, get a sworn statement to that effect.

the CPS stating that the boys are afraid of their father. That he spanks them and yells at them, causing them to be afraid.

... and they SHOULD be afraid of their father... that's what fathers are for! To keep boys afraid so they don't get in enough mischief to kill themselves or others! Look at the CA law... yelling at them is not abuse..... screaming profanities and insults would be verbal abuse, but raising your voice is not "child abuse."

No we don't have a copy of the CPS report for either visit by the first cps worker. The second one called only. We have no idea what has been said, just what the restraining order contains. Which even in that document, there is many mistakes and wrong information. I honestly didn't know we could get copies but will try today. She put down information that SHE had the boys when we actually had them and can prove it by the school records. They had a written piece of paper stating that she turned over the boys to him but they never filed it. I always thought a contract once written even if not filed in court was still valid to a point?

You said in your initial quote that you went to court to get temp custody... I'm assuming (but correct me if I'm wrong) that that hearing was the initial emergency removal or "dependency" hearing where CPS caused mom & dad to come to court because of the allegations. This is where CPS will take legal custody of the children and get authority to place them where they see fit. This also secures their "kidnapping" which allows them to force parents into their ransom of "accepting services." If that was the case, then the CPS caseworker would have filed a petition with the court. It is that petition which you need to get a hold of, either from son's attorney or the court directly. It lays out the "facts" of the case that they present to the judge. That is what dad has to fight, lie-by-lie, with an "Objections and Corrections to the report of the Social Worker" as well as a declaration of facts. HOWEVER..... do *NOT* present these documents at mediation!!!!!!!!!!! You do not want to give away your strategy at mediation... save it for the judge!!!

The next meeting is with a mediation on the 16th of this month. We are gathering all information we can against her. This woman had a sexual affair with one of her clients who is mentally disabled. Her boss and co workers are well aware of this fact but refuse to do anything about it. They still allow her to work there in the same place.
She was a stripper when he met her, was using drugs etc. My husband and I were very disappointed in our son but we accepted her in our home.

These things work both ways.... or, you just can't win in CPS's eyes: they will think, "she was such a horrible person but you decided to breed with her????? And allow her to be a mother to your children???? If you have such bad judgment, maybe you're not a worthy father!" You've got to be careful.... you probably haven't heard of the "failure to protect" charge that will come when the accusations start flying about what a horrible mother she is... unless your son always acted to protect the boys, which is a very plausible argument given that he and y'all grandparents have provided the home & family for them for however many years. Just be careful... you don't want to throw her too far under the bus because it might backfire. The good thing is that *USUALLY* what is presented at mediation is NOT admissible in court as "evidence" so you can say things there that might help there, but won't be good in court. So, she's a slut... is that child abuse or neglect? No... probably not going to help. Is what she did a crime? Then I sure hope if you know/knew that you reported it!!!!

I also always thought if you were accused of something, they had to get your side of the story? CPS never talked to any of the neighbors, teachers at school etc. They didn't talk to us, just the 2 phone calls and that was it. They took the kids on her words alone.

In CPS court, you aren't in criminal court where the burden is on the accuser to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" ... it is civil court where they use a "preponderance of the evidence" and the "evidence" is whatever CPS says. Another great resource/perspective can be found at http://familyrights.us/ and you can also read this article: http://fightcps.blogspot.com/2005/05/fa ... roven.html
This is also why I suggested that you have the police investigate this.... it's one of the only ways to have SOME official party identify the truth.

What makes you think they only listened to the mother? I find it hard to believe that they didn't talk to the children, so let's assume they did. CPS will always believe the child and nothing a defending parent says will ever carry as much weight as a child's word. Children have even recanted their stories completely and CPS *still* acts as if it were true. Even if the kids are young (2-3 years old) the CPS workers - who are NOT educated about how to conduct a forensic investigation - will ask the kids yes/no questions, essentially putting words in their mouths. Anyone who has ever spent any amount of time with a toddler knows that they will answer yes to anything so the investigation might go something like this:

"Did daddy spank you?"
uh-huh
"Did daddy hit you really hard?"
uh-huh
"Did daddy fly you to the moon on a purple cow?"
uh-huh

So, you need to find out what the caseworker presented as her "evidence" and refute it as appropriate. By the way, whatever CPS presents to the court in their petition/reports is considered "evidence" even hearsay, even toddler testimony, even outright lies (and they will lie!). You need to present your OWN evidence in the form of the the legal documents previously mentioned.

Lastly, remember that as mad as you are about what the mother has done, she is still the mother of these children and unless you've got pictures of her smoking crack last week, it's not likely at this point that anything you say or do is going to make CPS or the judge flip and say, "Oh, our bad... here, take the kids!" Now CPS caseworker egos are at play. What you need to present is yourselves as the loving, stable providers to these boys. Tell how you've yearned for years for their mother to straighten up and be a proper mother to them; that you've always observed her with a careful eye, hoped she would be there for the boys... that you were cautious when she showed up recently after years/months/whatever of absences but wanted to let a bond form while at the same time securing the sense of stability that the boys have come to know in your extended family. However, her making false allegations to secure custody AND child support (in case you guys didn't catch onto that... it's a great way for her to ensure she gets child support money!!!!) was simply uncalled for and a detriment to the boys.

Keep focused on what is best for the boys. CPS thinks they are saving those boys' lives... just let them know that you already DID that by keeping a safe home for them while their mother was off partying or whatever she was doing.

[JoeAnn55]

Yes, it was the first court date. For us, we thought it was to make the mother give us the boys back. To the mother and CPS it was to file for temp custody. We did not know that at the time. But was told when the judge told us, while looking at the CPS worker that my sons request was denied and the boys would remain with their mother. The judge did say that on the 16th of this month both parties were to see a mediator. So far that is all we know we have to do. CPS did not take the kids out of school, the mother did with the CPS doing a standby I believe it is called? Also in the restraining order the mother states that the worker told her, " If you go back to your husband, I will petition to have your kids taken away". Another thing I forgot to add is, my son thought they were working towards getting back together before all this happened. Then boom she does this.

My son just walked through the door and he is not happy. The receptionist at CPS that he talked to told him if there was an open investigation against him they could not give him any records. My son asked for her supervisor who then informed my son that since there was a note on the records stating that since the case workers supervisor had told the case worker not to speak to, answer an answering machine, e-mails, letters, give records that there was nothing they could do but deny him the records.
Neither of them would tell him if there was an open case or not. They would not speak to him.

This has got to be wrong, how can they with hold the records when they are about him??? How can they have so much power?? How can they refuse to even speak to him??
I don't know what to do now? Ive quit my classes at the college to help my son and my grandsons, to make sure the boys had me there when they got out of school etc. We have spent every penny we had to get this far.

[noroses4u2c]

Don't sign anything they give you to sign and don't stipulate to the charges. Make them take it to trial.

If you have a court appointed attorney, he/she will probably press to have you stipulate and cooperate with the enemy. Don't stipulate. If you stipulate, they add stuff after the fact and keep adding lies to the file and you have no recourse for it.

I hope you prevail in this case. I know this takes its toll on you.

[JoeAnn55]

I am, an old woman who loves her son and grandsons. I'm not a public speaker, I don't have an education, I don't have money, but what I do have is my love for my child and his children. I will fight back with my last breath. If I have to go to the new stations here in town, the newspapers I will do it. I will of course have proof to back up what I will say. I will write letters to whomever I can get to listen to me, and I am going to get those babies back home where they belong.

I have a notebook that I've been keeping notes in as well as a calendar. I am going to be sending letters to CPS where they have to sign for it or at least delivery confirmation.
Any correspondence will be in writing.

[noroses4u2c]

Keep communication to CPS to a minimum. They won't be looking to reunify. They will be looking for something they can twist to use against you.

The news media does not care about things like this. I speak from experience. I emailed, called, and mailed every media outlet I could. Not one ever contacted me back. I have known many others who lost their kids. The view is that you must have done something and overall societal view is against the parents.

[Beatthescammers]

Make appointments with the holder of CPS's pursestrings, your county commissioners. These men and women hire the county CPS director and control their budget. Take lots of photos of your grandsons. Sit on the front row of the next county commissioner meeting.

[JoeAnn55]

Since they refuse to talk to my son over this, they will have to accept the mail. They are also human. Human beings are a nosy breed, they love to see their name on things they just have to know what has been said about them, or if they are doing their job correctly they have to put any correspondence in the records. If they do not, then we can show them delivery confirmations that the mail was delivered. I mean, if he department can't keep track of mail, or records, how can they say they are doing their job?? If they are not doing their job correctly that simply proves they are to incompetent to make decisions concerning my grandsons.

How can they be doing anything in the best interest of my grandsons if they are biased, incompetent and can't handle a simple thing like correspondence?
If CPS refuses to even talk to my son, how can he find out what charges or allegations are they using against him?

[JoeAnn55]

Since my son and I will be meeting with a mediator on Monday the 16th of this month, we are working on a parenting plan (a visitation plan). Tim wants full physical and legal custody of the boys while visitation with the mother being the same as it was before, which was pretty liberal.
Now, as far as charges against my son. Since we have NOT heard from the police, except for the very first visit, we will assume for now there are no charges, just allegations from the mother that she has stated on the restraining order. Also, what is said in mediation, stays in mediation, it can not be used in court. But what we can do is show the evidence we have, not all of it, never show your basket of eggs all at once, there are to many wolves out there. Enough to show exactly what this woman is trying to do.

The whys? None of us know why.

We have always accepted her in the family, my husband and I even raised her sister's newborn daughter because she was going to give her up for adoption. The sister changed her mind after we got the baby through a horrible case of colic, then came and took her from us. She is now 5 years old and calls us Grandmas and Papa. We won't be able to see her or her sister because of this. The sister called us about 2 months ago and begged us to let her stay on the couch overnight because her and her boyfriend were fighting. We did so instantly, to us at the time she was part of the family. Her boyfriend passed away, we had no idea or we would have been there for her and now she won't even speak to us, she is being loyal to her sister and this we do understand. It hurts us deeply but we do understand her loyalty.

If there are no charges, no actual CPS case, then there should be no reason for us to lose full custody of my grandsons.
My husband, my son and the rest of the family will all stand up and show we have a stable loving home. That my son with our help can provide for the boys, they will be safe, clean and loved.

My family has lived in this home since 1970, we have been here for the last 17 years. We are a stable home.

[Eljay]

I am, an old woman who loves her son and grandsons. I'm not a public speaker, I don't have an education, I don't have money, but what I do have is my love for my child and his children. I will fight back with my last breath. If I have to go to the new stations here in town, the newspapers I will do it. I will of course have proof to back up what I will say. I will write letters to whomever I can get to listen to me, and I am going to get those babies back home where they belong.

I have a notebook that I've been keeping notes in as well as a calendar. I am going to be sending letters to CPS where they have to sign for it or at least delivery confirmation.
Any correspondence will be in writing.

Keep in mind that YOU are not at war with CPS and you are, effectively, a nobody to them at the moment. They only have control over the parents/guardians of the children because they are the ones who are responsible for them. Your son needs to do battle with them and you need to be Switzerland... the neutral party there to step in and take the kids. You even have to show CPS that you are completely open to the possibility of the allegations against your son being true and you're willing to take the kids and kick your son to the curb until they say it's okay to let him see them. If you stand up and defend him, they will claim you are in denial and I *GUARANTEE* they will not place the kids with you. What you need to do is seek the truth... tell CPS you know the mother is no good, and maybe your son is no good, but the kids need to be safe with you until CPS gets this all figured out. If you're going to say that mom is unfit, then you'll have to be prepared to take the kids on 100%.

[Eljay]

Since we have NOT heard from the police, except for the very first visit, we will assume for now there are no charges, just allegations from the mother that she has stated on the restraining order.

Don't assume, go to the police, force an investigation on HER for filing a false police report.... very odd that they would grant a protection order without pursuing charges... it's the like the crime that never existed.

Also, what is said in mediation, stays in mediation, it can not be used in court.

If you're going by what I said, remember I said *USUALLY* ... CPS court is different and not all CPS/family courts use mediators for this purpose. You need to know FOR SURE before you open your mouth.

The whys? None of us know why.

You know if she has full custody she gets full child support, right? If it's not financially driven, then you have to consider the possibility that she's telling the truth. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors and you've already fessed up that your son has a HUGE anger problem. I know it's hard to fathom, but you've got to consider it or else CPS will never consider you for guardianship.

If there are no charges, no actual CPS case, then there should be no reason for us to lose full custody of my grandsons.

CPS case workers do not care whether a crime has been committed. They take children away from parents all the time because they might be abused or neglected. They do this with people with *alleged* mental illness (they'll make up the evidence as they go), *PAST* drug problems, SUSPECTED domestic violence.

As for your son requesting his records, since they've already shut him out verbally, then do everything in writing... it's better that way because they can't change their story.

Wow... just googled Shasta County CPS and you're not in a good place.

http://www.krcrtv.com/news/28852503/detail.html
http://www.oocities.org/three_strikes_l ... y_cps.html
http://www.blindbulldog.com/2012/02/inf ... d-cfs.html
http://www.experienceproject.com/storie ... ps/1182930

[JoeAnn55]

Shasta County is well known for child molesters, criminals. Janesville prison in Nevada makes Shasta County their drop off point. Due to where we are located, we have snow skiing, lakes, the Sacramento river, 135 miles east of the coast. Redding is a tourist town, made up of retail stores, old folks homes. There is nothing here for kids, most leave town when they can. Redding has grown in leaps since they built all the retail malls here.
Yes, we are in a bad county.

Yes, I understand what your saying about my being neutral, that was and is the plan. Our main concern is the boys well being, if that means my son has to leave then he leaves point blank. His words as well as mine. I am speaking simply as a grandmother. I love my children and I love my grandsons. When my son was 5 he fell on a stick while running, cutting his testicles almost off. The Doctor told me then he would never be able to have children. I was just happy he was going to be ok.
When he met his wife, she became pregnant instantly. Our first grandson to us was a miracle and although we were a bit uneasy about him actually being my sons child, when he was born the love that came over us for him blocked any other feelings, we was our sons pure and simple. They were married when he was 2 years old. Next thing we know, she is pregnant again, we were ecstatic and welcomed the second boy into our world. 3 years later she is pregnant again, as with the first 2 we opened our arms to the baby. But then things weren't going well, she wouldn't allow us to much time with the baby. Where as we had practically raised the first 2 because she didn't have time for them, her working was more important. With this one she kept him with her all the time, she wouldn't even let my son keep the baby with him while she was working, so my son wasn't allowed to bond with him. He doesn't look like the other 2 at all, he looks like the client she was messing around with, we even have a picture of the client holding the baby and it is shocking how much they look alike. Even with that, we and our son love this baby, doesn't matter who is the bio father, he is ours.

So yes, I will stand back and my son will be doing the fighting for them. I am there for support as any mother would be for their child.

I am doing the research and finding out what I can to help him, but he will be the one who stands before the judge etc. We are gathering any and all evidence we can to prove she is a unfit mother, that she is using the kids for her own purposes. What she is claiming against him are lies. Our son has lived with my husband and I for a while now. Yes he has spanked the boys and yes he has yelled at them, but he has not in any way shape or form abused them. He doesn't call them names ever, doesn't make them feel humiliated etc. Of course he isn't the perfect father, he talks loud (hearing loss from childhood) he yells when he gets angry, but he has never once taken it out on the boys.

Your words of advice are keeping me going and I thank you so much. Any and all help is welcomed.

[JoeAnn55]

My son just received a phone call from the supervisor of the case worker on his case. He can not have the records because the case IS still open. The supervisor finally told him what the allegations against him are.

"General Neglect" which according to Ca code.
CAL. PENAL CODE § 11165.2 (West 2004)
Neglect; severe neglect; general neglect.

As used in this article, "neglect" means the negligent treatment or the maltreatment of a child by a
person responsible for the child's welfare under circumstances indicating harm or threatened harm to
the child's health or welfare. The term includes both acts and omissions on the part of the responsible
person.
(a) "Severe neglect" means the negligent failure of a person having the care or custody of a child to
protect the child from severe malnutrition or medically diagnosed nonorganic failure to thrive. "Severe
neglect" also means those situations of neglect
where any person having the care or custody of a child willfully causes or permits the person or health
of the child to be placed in a situation such that his or her person or health is endangered, as proscribed
by Section 11165.3, including the intentional failure to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter, or
medical care.
(b) "General neglect" means the negligent failure of a person having the care or custody of a child to
provide adequate food, clothing, shelter, medical care, or supervision where no physical injury to the
child has occurred.

The supervisor also stated that until the case worker dispositions out the report she can not give my son the records. I'm not sure what that means?
She also said that CPS does not deal with child abuse that she does? Juvenile court? She would call him when the records were ready to give him a copy.
His next date is with a mediator on the 16th, which is this coming Monday.
His is working on his parenting plan now. To me this is good news, if I trust them, which I don't. Can we use the restraining order accusations that she filed, as showing she lied and was using this as an excuse to use the kids as a pawn in her little game? How do we defend against general neglect? Sounds easy but as we all know nothing is as easy as it sounds.

[Eljay]

So what are they alleging he did (or didn't do) that falls into the category of neglect (of any sort)?

[noroses4u2c]

Their definitions for child neglect are so vague that anyone can be guilty of child neglect.

[Eljay]

Their definitions for child neglect are so vague that anyone can be guilty of child neglect.

Well, hopefully they will fail to state anything in their report/petition that indicates neglect. They did with my petition... stated neglect but didn't indicate ANYTHING in their report to support this allegation.

[JoeAnn55]

As far as we know from the phone call today, which I did record. Is just the code of general neglect "with out" physical injury.
Now, your right that could mean anything. Which we can handle, my home is clean, so is his mobile that he shares with his male room mate. The property it's self is alright, not perfect, our family have lived here for so long. My brothers all deceased, all there things, cars etc are here. We have horses, chickens, dogs a cat. 9 members of my family, which includes the boys lived here up until my daughter and her boyfriend moved to Indiana to get jobs. Now since the boys are gone there is only the 4 of us.

The boys sleep, eat, bath, and live in my home, not in the mobile with my son. I get the boys off to school, feed them and lay out their clothes, help them get dressed when they need help. Bathe them, wash and cut their hair, I buy their clothes, their shoes, take them to the Doctor. I make sure they do their chores, help them with their homework, take them places, to the park, taught them to ride the horse, to ride their quad and bikes we bought for them. I am the one who says that they can pick or choose between their turn at choosing a weekend meal. My son does this when I am not here or I am at my college class's. So when she, the mother is speaking about them being in a unsafe or abusive home she is directly that straight at ME.

She attacked me one time when I got angry at her for saying she didn't care if my son lived or died. When I stood up out of my chair to stand up to her, she grabbed my hair and tried to push me down to the floor. I do believe she was shocked when this old broad didn't fall but proceeded to knock her down, and kept her down until she begged for me to leave her alone. That was years ago, nothing came of it except my son jumped me for hurting his wife. When he found out what really happened, he told me how sorry he was for believing her.

My mind is so full of this stuff. I need to get my notes and things typed up and in bullet form so that he wont forget which areas to bring up.

[JoeAnn55]

Tomorrow is the day to find out what the mediator is going to do and or say. We have things ready to refute what ever she has accused him of.
So far we know it is
general neglect according to the CA codes. But general neglect can encompass many many things. We will have to prove to the mediator that we have a safe and stable home for the boys. I honestly think his parenting plan is fair and doable. He wants full physical and legal custody, with liberal visitation for the mother. She would get them every weekend plus 1 school day overnight. Every other holiday, shared birthdays and she gets them for 3 months during the summer with us getting them every weekend during the summer. If that doesn't happen then he will accept, 50/50 with the boys living with us, with the mother having a say in medical and legal. But with the same arrangements as full custody. I would rather her not see the boys again but thats not fair to the boys, they love their mother and I respect the love they have for her.

Son knows to speak clearly, to finish his sentences and not to interrupt anyone else that is speaking. To be honest, blunt and to the point. He also knows the ex will try and push his buttons to make him get upset. I told him to just look at her with a smile or to chuckle, not laugh if she is trying to push his buttons.

Today was my oldest grandson's 8th birthday, we have never missed a birthday and all of us have been kinda depressed over it, but like I told the family, when we get them back we are going to celebrate everything we missed with them. Easter, birthdays.... they will get to ride their new horse. I know they are missing their animals. They loved gathering the eggs, it was one of their favorite things to do. Plus we have the puppy's, they will go nuts over them.

Wish us luck!!

[Eljay]

Good luck!!!!! It sounds like you already know that it IS a negotiation. Don't let them get away with standing their ground on a bogus accusation. If they have no *SUBSTANTIAL* allegation of neglect, then there is no reason in the world for him to not have the kids. Bad parenting isn't neglectful parenting and correcting the home or parenting skills does not necessitate removal of the boys from custody.

By the way, if she has ever been out of their lives for 6 months, I believe that is technically abandonment in CA. Furthermore, if she has failed to provide food, clothing, shelter, medical care (does she pay child support???) then *SHE* is the neglectful parent! What's the longest she's been gone?

[JoeAnn55]

We are prepared. They should allow me in the meeting since they live in my home and part of her allegations are that they live in a unsafe and abusive home.
3 months has been the longest shes been away from the two oldest boys. In those 3 months she was suppose to get them one day a week and she didn't. Nor did she call.She used the same excuse of she was to busy working, which simply proves to me her clients were more important than her own children.

She left the two oldest boys with my husband and my self, while she kept the baby with her. This happened when my son went to AZ to make a home for them and then when her and all three boys went there, she moved her boyfriend/client in and kicked my son out. She got a restraining order against him in AZ, then she allowed my son to bring the oldest boy back home to calif. Really scared for the kid huh?? That was in June 2011, then she comes back to CA with out the boyfriend in Oct.2011 and leaves the baby and the second boy with us and their dad. Shes a flake and a user. So much for the fear of the kids being in harms way??

Anyone that questions her and the restraining orders she had placed against him will see right through what she is doing.

We are also going to make a formal complaint against the case worker. I went through the CPS training and how to guide and the case worker was suppose to investigate ALL of us. Any member of the family or persons who live in the home are to be interviewed. She did not do any of this. She simply called and left a message telling my son the kids were safe with their mother. Luckily I caught the call before she hung up. We have never seen her, nor has she ever been out to our home.

[JoeAnn55]

Same thing happened as last time. They have now up graded to physical abuse. That is such bull crap. It has also been set for trial, so that will give us a chance to bring up all of the allegations that she has lied about.

[Eljay]

This is the time to prepare your documents - Declaration of Facts (one from you, one from your son) and Corrections & Objections to the Report of the Social Worker. It will not only get the truth on record, but give the attorney something to work with for trial (don't expect him to remember everything... having it all written out will be a HUGE benefit to your case). The judge needs to see/hear/read it more than once. CPS puts it all in writing.... you need to also.

[JoeAnn55]

The mother was going to allow my son to talk on the phone with the boys but the court mediator said no, that the boys are starting counseling and it would not be a good idea. How the hell can they do that?? She has the Woman's refuge behind her, apparently she is staying there. Their address is what they have down as to where to send documents to. Can we do the Declaration of Facts and Corrections & Objections now or do we wait? We don't have a lawyer, we can't afford one. I intend on selling anything and every thing I can to get enough to pay for one. To many are helping her but no one is helping my son except for me. This is so discouraging and frustrating. Ive been reading any and everything I can get my hands on about how to do all of this.