Should parents let CPS in willingly or not?

[angelheart83]

I would like to see the opinions of everyone willing to post. Who recommends letting CPS in willingly? Who recommends making them force their way in? The latter seems to be the only way to preserve your standing to sue, right?

I'm wondering how many recommend that parents submit to CPS and who recommends making a stand. I usually recommend the latter, but maybe I'm in the minority because of my strong religious beliefs?

[family_man]

My position is to willingly let them in, but on your own terms. If CPS does not have custody, always deny entrance if they show up unannounced. This is when CPS has an unfair advantage. The sink may be full of dirty dishes. The garbage needs to be taken out. The children are screaming for food and you're in the middle of changing a diaper.

Instead, make an appointment for the caseworker to see your home when the children aren't around, and everything is neat and orderly. Nobody can claim you are obstructing the investigation, then. No one can claim you are "uncooperative."

If you've already lost legal custody to CPS, then you have to let them in whenever they show up.

[angelheart83]

I'm bothered by the fact that willingly letting them in waives a family's rights. It's so unfair. I just wish the system would hold CPS accountable to keep them honest.

[Eljay]

You can assert your rights again in the middle of an "inspection" ... revoking permission and booting them out. Yes, it's been court affirmed but I don't have a link for it.

[monkette31]

I say keep them out. If they want in, they should get a search warrant and have probable cause. The problem is that social workers are reknown for lying so they cannot be trusted in your home or around children. This type of investigating families without informing them of the specific allegations of neglect is also illegal but they do it anyways because most poor street folk don't know they have any rights anyways and others were misled into believing the government is there to help. What too often happens is that they are let into a home and now the social worker just goes on a fishing expedition looking for ANY signs that they could use to force your family into services.

[mtmommy]

I was told to post an AFRA Title 18/1983 sign that states whoever enters your property can and will be either videotaped or recorded. I was also told CPS has a policy of not being recorded, so they would be the ones having to refuse to enter. It is your constitutional right to do this on your property.

[dachshundfan]

I say let them in. If you don't it looks like your hiding something and they will continue to stop by. They will not leave you alone, you cannot hide from them.

The first time they showed up I pretended not to be home. They left a card, so I called them because I knew if I hadn't I would be stressing the entire weekend.

I spoke with the lady and made an appointment, and I made sure everything was perfect.

They came out, saw my kids and asked us questions.

I thought it was the end of it but it wasn't. Two months later the worker called again and said she would like to make another appointment, so I made an appointment.

She came out, saw the kids AGAIN and asked questions AGAIN. She said that she was going to find my case unfounded, and that was it.

Point being, I cooperated with them and I was polite with the worker.

On the other hand, the lady was like a soldier, she had no facial expression at all, it was like talking to a brick wall. These workers are trained to be robots!

I still fear they will show up again or bother my family again, even though my case was unfounded.

[angelheart83]

I respect that opinion. Personally, I don't trust the system enough. If you let them in, it gives them the ability to twist anything they see and use it as justification to stay in your life. The smallest imperfection can be used against a family if the worker wants to. I personally believe that citizens shouldn't have to endure government intrusion unless there is an emergency or probable cause...if they have either, then they wouldn't need permission. Letting them in can make you seem agreeable, but I've seen so many case where that trust was shattered.

[dachshundfan]

So, what do you think is going to happen if you don't let them in?

[angelheart83]

I didn't let them in during my last investigation this summer. HSLDA wrote them a letter on my behalf stating that they had no grounds to force entry. They never came back after that.

I let them in during my previous investigation and I regretted it bitterly.

My experiences won't be exactly the same as others. I'm very aware that in some cases, caseworkers are able to get court orders even when they don't have sufficient probable cause or an emergency...our family court system is so screwed up. But I don't suggest granting them entry in most cases. Just my own personal opinion.

[dachshundfan]

I would be too stressed wondering what they would do next, I thought for sure if I hadn't let them in, they would go down to the courthouse and get an order to remove the kids. It seems as though lawyers are only there for you once the kids are in CPS custody. Where are the lawyers when you need them to prevent CPS from taking our kids?

[longwalk]

In most cases, you SHOULD NOT LET THEM IN. That said, they do have statutory authority to investigate, and you MUST NOT give them any grounds to obtain a warrant...in which case they can and will enter.

My advice is to appear as relaxed and pleasant as possible (even if you are terrified). As nonchalantly as possible, smile and say: "No problem. May I please see your identification and warrant?"

If they do not SHOW you a warrant with specific authority to enter your home (chances are they don't have one, so DO NOT TAKE THEIR WORD FOR IT; THEY OFTEN LIE), remain calm and pleasant. Politely yet FIRMLY state: "I'm so sorry, I don't permit entry to my home without a warrant. But I don't want to be a bother, and do want to help clear up any concerns you may have."

You can answer any questions they have right there at the doorstep. Be polite, succinct, and direct--yet without chit-chat, unsolicited information, or gratuitous comments. These are not your friends; this is not a social call. If you child is well and has no visible scrapes or bruises, call him or her to the room, or open the nursery window to let let them see the child. (If your child just took a tumble off his bike, set an appointment for the future...and keep the kid in bubble wrap!)

Continue to pretend you are relaxed, confident, and unafraid. Say something like: "As you can see, s/he's just fine! But I do thank you so much for your concern! Now, I really need to get on with...(preparing lunch, reading Johnny his story, etc.), so let me take your cards, and we can all get on with the morning. Again, thank you for your time."
SMILE. SHUT THE DOOR. If you kept your cool, did not appear fearful, and did not objectively appear to be hiding anything, they have no grounds for a warrant. If you are in a working class or above neighborhood, that could be the end of it. (Though no guarantees.)

On the other hand, if the house is IMMACCULATE, you may want to invite them in, because they are always suspicious of those who avoid them. However, that invites more conversation, which workers notoriously misinterpret. Thus, a casual comment that "Sally was afraid of Uncle Harry's Big Bad Wolf costume at the Halloween party last week--it was kind of scary!" could be "documented" as you "admitting" that your predatory Uncle Harry--who you knew was a wolf--threatened your child right before your eyes, and you did NOTHING to protect or comfort her, and have never sought psychological counselling for her trauma.

The above may sound farfetched, but I have personally observed and experienced even more bizarre distortions. Hence my recommendation to deny access. These things really do happen, to perfectly normal people. Truth is stranger than fiction.

[rakhel]

I respect that opinion. Personally, I don't trust the system enough. If you let them in, it gives them the ability to twist anything they see and use it as justification to stay in your life. The smallest imperfection can be used against a family if the worker wants to. I personally believe that citizens shouldn't have to endure government intrusion unless there is an emergency or probable cause...if they have either, then they wouldn't need permission. Letting them in can make you seem agreeable, but I've seen so many case where that trust was shattered.

When my son was taken back into care after a "failed trial discharge," OSI got involved. Baring in mind that I am in NYC and do live in a mouse infested homeless shelter, that dude intended to make my home appear worse than it was by stating that he "saw 4 mice jump off the couch and scatter" causing him to squeal like a child on a rollercoaster.
I told them that I do not appreciate the over-exaggerations that CPS and foster care agencies make. That my home is not piled to the ceiling in trash, my husband is not teaching the mice circus tricks, and since I am only allowed totes and bins for storage, I am doing the best I can with what I got.
It may not have accomplished much but it made me feel better saying it.