I would like to say hello to the CPS agent

[Anonymous]

December 14th.

And yes i am not sure on how to direct my anger totally to DFS/CPS here.
ANd yes my anger is being aimed ay the courts/DFS/CPS/GAL.

And the reason i think they are waiting till dec 14th is too give my X a chance to remodify the divorce decree from 11 years ago like the Judge told him to do and now the Attorney for the JUvinile DFS.

I will not go down without a fight damn it,i raised them kids he didn't he was not around.

ANd my attorney is fighting tooth and nail and finding loopholes that the GAL/Judge/DFS have failed to abide by.

He is going to use the fire he has been given showing that the GAL/DFS/CPS/Judge have not follwed their laws as they were taught to abide by.I have more evidence now for him than i did before.And it will BITE them in the BUTT.Mel

[mouse50595]

i think i see a severe civil lawsuit when this is all over for you, no matter what the outcome...well, hopefully you will have the girls home before christmas, that would be so way cool...i will do what i can to help, just tell me if you need anything,k, melissa

[Anonymous]

I sure hope i have them home before christmas. Lat year my X had them for the 4th of july,and thanksgiving,halloween,xmas, I got them for 2 hours on xmas.

he also had them for new years and easter.and the 4th again.

He will not get away with trying to get the kids in his full custody.

if you look at this pic of my 15 year old daughter this will show you the neglect they did to her by not gettign her to the dentist.


http://www.dattaway.org/tishatooth


Its the tooth on the bottom left with the hole. And we had this pic to show the judge,he didn't want to see it,my daughter herself was there to show him...but nope...

And the fact my ex admitted to the courts that he is still a friend of a sex offender and he said this under oath.

The judge ignored it.

[mouse50595]

i am thinking chain of command sounds good to you right now...i saw the pic before, it is terrible...so we need to find out, okay, if that judge is going to ignore it, then who do you get ahold of that is higher on the food chain than him, and i also think that you can report him if i remember right, i would ask like dazee for sure cuz i am not positive and she is really alot better on thoes things than me, for a blonde lol, melissa

[Anonymous]

A judge that i know told me that I have to have my attorney file a complaint with the presideing judge and if that judge doesn't do anything about it go to the other judge in the big courthouse and file a complaint that way about the both of them.

And what would i ask Dazee? This tooth was brought up in court while i was on the stand and I even let the judge know this wasn't the first time this has happended to her.He ignored it.

And yes i plan on a law suite for all that had been done to the kids.

[Michael]

Yes reports are received on CPS workers and they are investigated. When a report is received on a worker the worker is automatically suspended, without pay, unless they take vacation, during the investigation.

The case is also mard sensetive and no one but the assigned worker, their immediate supervisor or the progran director can open the case. If any one else attempts to look in the case file they receive a security violation report.

And the worker will be terminated if found to have abused or neglected a child.

I know of three workers who have beeen investigated and one of them was fired. The second resigned during the investigation and the the allegation was ruled out on the third.

[Dazeemay]

Nope this dumb blonde turned gray does not have the answer to Angels questions....

You just keep hanging in there Angel and also be sure to give your lawyer this if you haven't seen it

http://www.ca8.uscourts.gov/opndir/02/06/013346P.pdf

Look under Bob-Lynn's post on sue or cps investigations

[mouse50595]

my ? is what kind of neglect and abuse?? like not taking children away when they are in a meth lab?? i was just curious, it killed the cat ya know lol, melissa

[mouse50595]

and dazeemay, since when did you become dumb?? lol, you are one of the blondes that make me look dumb...atleast you are more organized than i am...i keep losing links that i need later lol...melissa

[sedwards]

Well dur to dcf they have changed my whole outlook on life. i dont have friends or enemies. i stay home . i take care of my kids and thats it . i got get grocerys once a week . and that is my life i dont want to meet people because i cant trust them . i will meet some one and they seem ok but then something inside kicks in and tells me i cant trust anyone . i used to be n ice to everyone . well i am nice but i dont invite anyone over . i stay to myself and have found i am better off that way . less trouble and worry it seems aint got to worry that noone is gona lie noone is gonna get mad and make a false call . cause they dont know me ... thanks dcf for taking my trust in people in our goverenment in the usa ... the only one i trust is god .. and i even question him now ...

[Michael]

I did not understand the question, if it was directed to me!

[sedwards]

michael you work for them how can they say my house was in foreclosure and make me loose it if i want my kids tell me i have to be single .make me get an injuntion then allow the father to see them . tell the foster mom my son could call his dad and visa versa but not me and it is all documented now my atty is going to get the paer work what will happen from there ...And another ? they arrest me for truuancy which was false but that dont give them grounds to take my kids did it . they wouldnt let me call there granmother . And there were three adults present they said i would be out on a ror so why did they take my kids was it the money . my kids were safe and i had a nice house ..

[jdr7181]

Micheal,

Go to this url. It's a pdf and it's huge, so if you don't have broadband, wait around 10 minutes for it to fully load.

http://media.familyrights.us/expose/expose4.pdf

Then go to page 12. You need Adobe Acrobat. The toolbar has a button on it that goes page by page.

Go to page 12, like I said, AND TELL ME THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE DEFENDING!

I warn you now, every time you defend something, I will shoot it down. This is in Texas. Sick sick sick.

Folks, read the whole PDF if you want. But page 12, and a lot of many others of the 120 pages are very important. It will make you sick to your stomach to see how many people in our Government have been given point blank proof of the massive problem that is killing children by the bus loads yearly. Don't vote for em. They did NADA.

The Tech

What makes me sick is you talking about something you know nothing about. I read page 12. I worked at Woodside Trails, the facility she lied about in that report. If you want the actual truth, go to http://woodsidetrails.org/press/rebuttalall.html.

I hear some of you talking about, "What happened to innocent until proven guilty?" Well the person that wrote the above should practice what he/she preaches. I don't guess the actuall truth in this case matters much to people like you since you've got it all figured out. It's a shame organizations like the so called American Family Rights Association don't bother to confirm their facts before running with a blatantly false news report about that facility. I pray someday people will learn the truth about what kind of facility Woodside Trails really was. The healing that went on there, the healing I saw. Those children loved that place and they loved Bebe, the Executive Director of the facility whose 30-year career saving children (often from themselves) was eradicated by an ambitious politician grandstanding on the backs of those children in her pursuit of higher office. What I didn't expect, what I never imagined is the gullibility and naivete of people like the one who wrote that stuff up there.

Jack

[kdddav]

jdr7181,

You and your Boss, Mr. Gains, have a huge financial stake in that camp staying open.

You said it makes you sick. Good, it's about time. But make sure you're sick over the right things in the future.

By the way, your link doesn't work.

Besides, why would the Comptroller fake her report? Her career pays too much for to lose over what should have been a verifiable lie. Since it was a rebuttal and not a call for her resignment with proof of the lie, I think you lose this round.


The Tech

[jdr7181]

jdr7181,

You and your Boss, Mr. Gains, have a huge financial stake in that camp staying open.

My God, boy, if you knew how rediculous that was. First off, it's Ms. Gaines, and she barely broke $40,000.00 a year working there, less than bottom quartile of executive directors of not-for profit entities of that size. A huge financial gain? Sheesh! I suppose some people make a lot of money warehousing foster children for the state, but Woodside Trails certainly didn't. Most of the money made in foster care is made by the the government agency overseeing the system (DFPS) and the state itself from federal grant money.

FACT: Their audited total expenses in 2002 (latest audited period available) were $2,395,804 or $114.30 per boy per day. The tuition we received during this period averaged $105.48 per boy per day.

FACT: The shortfall between what they were paid and what it cost them is $8.83 per boy per day, or about $3,750 for each boy who was with them for a typical 14 month treatment period. This shortfall was made up (i) by personal sacrifices by our staff, and (ii) by contributions from individuals and foundations of $164,476 in 2002 and $491,339 in 2003 (unaudited).

FACT: The audited cost of supporting services (meaning administrative overhead) in 2002 was 1.7% of their expenses, showing that 98.3% of their resources was devoted to the care of the children in our charge.

FACT: Most of theboys who completed their treatment program go on to lead useful and productive lives.

FACT: The state stipend of $115 per boy per day for a child requiring “specialized” services may seem like a lot of money, but it’s a pittance compared to the alternative for our boys - which is jail if they are not treated effectively. This camp specialized in treating juvenile sex offenders. Compare the cost of their average14 month treatment to the cost to the taxpayers of Texas of 20 years in the state prison system, and you will see what a bargain we are.

Your suggestion that me and my "boss" have some financial gain in the camp staying open just shows you have not even bothered to keep up with the facts of this case. On August 13, 2004, CPS pulled into camp and forcibly removed 22 boys. Various County Probation Departments removed all but a few that remained three days later. CPS officially closed the facility on August 25, 2004. In your ignorance you see this as a good thing, but the point is there is no financial gain in keeping that place open because it's closed and there never was to begin with.

The children and staff openly wept that day when the boys were forced to leave. As one boy's mother noted, "Even the land at Woodside Trails is crying today."

You said it makes you sick. Good, it's about time. But make sure you're sick over the right things in the future.

By the way, your link doesn't work.

My bad. Sorry. It was late last night. This should work:

http://woodsidetrails.org/press/rebuttalall.html

Besides, why would the Comptroller fake her report? Her career pays too much for to lose over what should have been a verifiable lie. Since it was a rebuttal and not a call for her resignment with proof of the lie, I think you lose this round.

Oh, my God! Are you serious? Gee, I don't know, why DO politicians lie? She was seeking higher office, man, come on!

Are you from Texas? Would you like to tour the facility (or what's left of it)? If you are really interested in the truth, I'd be more than happy to tone down the rhetoric and talk to you offline, by phone, or continue to discuss this on this message forum. I was there, Tech. I know what happened. I know about the work that was done with those boys. I know for a fact she lied.

Look, Tech. I agree that CPS is horrible and evil and have done more harm than good to families and children all over America. But that doesn't mean that every facility that took CPS-placed kids is automatically horrible and evil, too. I promise you, Tech, you're wrong about this one.

Jack

[Dazeemay]

Our children recover because of the innovative and creative work that we do,” said Bebe Gaines, President. “This is what we should be judged on.”

This is exactly what parents all over these United States have said when cps has crimminally removed our children.

This is exactly why Woodside was closed down and I will believe that to this day.

CPS is known for turning on it's own and that is what they did to Woodside. I am going to believe you jdr7181 because you sound of truth and a few months back I did a little investigation on my own in regards to this and drew my own conclusions. A young man, I can't find the post, a few months back complained about this and that is what lead me to read more about it.

My first thought was not because she was republican, (I no longer side with any politician or party. I gave it up many years ago. I will use them because they use me. I will use them to get my grandchild back because they use me. I will stand in front of them and smile my biggest smile if I have to and play their games just like we have to with cps because they use me and betray me.) but I could see a political gain here for her. What politician doesn't take and issue and tell truths and half truths with it. CPS colluded with her and she colluded with them is what I felt. Who knows what passed under the table between both.

I thought it a little strange that CPS went in like gang busters and Woodside got shut down. Well, excuse me but what happened to CPS as a result of this? Who shut them down? No, the politicans and the Media kept their focus on Woodside and not on the Agency. I do have to admit that I read something like they were reprimanded and told to clean themselves up but not shut down. And isn't it strange that we hear those words over and over again in each state that is caught doing something. It's in the media to make the people think they are doing something about making a change and low and behold no changes are made.

However, jdr7181, I did not find the camp appealing and I will tell you why from a personal point of view.

I can see this type of camp for the summer but, not year round living for any child. It is fine to store food like the camp did but not for year round. Years ago living camp style would not have mattered but todays society dictates something better. I would have wanted something better for my child.

As for kids sleeping on the ground (hope I am not mixing up stories here) I have had children and grandchildren repeatedly give up sleeping in their beds and wanting to sleep on the floor or ground. I have never figured that one out to this day. I just let them go through that phase.

[jdr7181]

Thank you for your informed and thoughtful response. I have replied below:

Our children recover because of the innovative and creative work that we do,” said Bebe Gaines, President. “This is what we should be judged on.”

This is exactly what parents all over these United States have said when cps has crimminally removed our children.

This is exactly why Woodside was closed down and I will believe that to this day.

CPS is known for turning on it's own and that is what they did to Woodside. I am going to believe you jdr7181 because you sound of truth and a few months back I did a little investigation on my own in regards to this and drew my own conclusions. A young man, I can't find the post, a few months back complained about this and that is what lead me to read more about it.

Yes, I believe his name is Anthony. He was a former counselor at the facility as well and like myself knows the things reported were false. I'm glad you followed up with it and informed yourself of the circumstances.

My first thought was not because she was republican, but I could see a political gain here for her. What politician doesn't take an issue and tell truths and half truths with it. CPS colluded with her and she colluded with them is what I felt. Who knows what passed under the table between both.

I thought it a little strange that CPS went in like gang busters and Woodside got shut down. Well, excuse me but what happened to CPS as a result of this? Who shut them down? No, the politicans and the Media kept their focus on Woodside and not on the Agency. I do have to admit that I read something like they were reprimanded and told to clean themselves up but not shut down. And isn't it strange that we hear those words over and over again in each state that is caught doing something. It's in the media to make the people think they are doing something about making a change and low and behold no changes are made.

You are dead on! Woodside Trails was shutdown not because it was a bad placement; not because we were getting rich at the expense of helpless foster children with nowhere else to go; not because we abused the children (sexual or otherwise). It was shutdown to appease the media and relieve the agency of the political and legislative pressure bearing down on them. Remember, in June 2004 an Hidalgo County Grand Jury CRIMINALLY INDICTED THE ENTIRE AGENCY (CPS) for failing to prevent the repeated rape of three under age girls by their step-father, despite numerous outcries by the girls. They only intervened after the 13-year-old was impregnated.

However, jdr7181, I did not find the camp appealing and I will tell you why from a personal point of view.

I can see this type of camp for the summer but, not year round living for any child. It is fine to store food like the camp did but not for year round. Years ago living camp style would not have mattered but todays society dictates something better. I would have wanted something better for my child.

While I appreciate your opinion, I have to disagree. These weren't innocent little foster kids. This was a special camp for juvenile offenders. Every one of the kids there had hurt someone--raped/molested someone, robbed someone, beat someone, etc. We specialized in the treatment of juvenile sex offenders. Most of them had been sexually/physicall/emotionally abused themselves, but ALL were guilty of abusing others. In other words, they were caught up in the abuse cycle. And for most of the kids, Woodside Trails was their last hope before TYC or worse. Many of these boys had been through as many as 20 placements previously.

While I understand what you are saying, it's important to note the following (from Woodside Trails' rebuttal):

"It is well-known that experience in military encampments has demonstrated that there is a much higher level of respiratory or other communicable diseases when troops are moved from tents to enclosed shelters. This is readily understandable when one compares the fresh air of outdoor living to the enhanced disease transmission of enclosed, climate-controlled spaces. In addition, national studies have concluded that the risk in wilderness programs is 'about on a par with cross-country skiing, a little safer than canoeing, somewhat less risky than going on a summer adventure camp for adolescents; half as risky as overnight backing in general, considerably safer than downhill skiing; about 18 times less likely to result in injury than are high school football practices and cheerleading . . .' Cooley, R.: How Big is the Risk in Wilderness Treatment of Adolescents?, Journal of Wilderness (April 2000)."

Here's some references you should check out: Loughmiller, C.: Wilderness Road (1965); Russell, K. et al: Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare, Technical Report 26 (December 2000); Bruyere, B.L.: Appropriate Benefits for Outdoor Programs Targeting Juvenile Male Offenders, J. of Experiential Education (Spring 2002); Russell, K.C.: What is Wilderness Therapy, J. of Experiential Education (Fall 2001); Bedard, R.M., et al: Wilderness Therapy Programs for Juvenile Delinquents: A Meta Analysis, Therapeutic Wilderness Camping (Winter/Spring 2003); Berman, D.S., et al: Outdoor Education and Troubled Youth, Paradigm (Spring 1997); Cooley, R.: OBHIC Risk Incident Report – Year 2000, Woodbury Reports Archive, News and Views (August 2000); Berman, D.S., et al: Outdoor Education and Troubled Youth, ERIC Digest (1995); Bell, M.: What Constitutes Experience? Rethinking Theoretical Assumptions, J. of Experiential Education (May 1993); Russell, K.C.: Longitudinal Assessment of Treatment Outcomes in Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare, Technical Report 28 (August 2002); and Cooley, R.: Therapeutic Camping, Paradigm (Spring 1999); Cooley, R.:Wilderness Therapy Can Help Troubled Adolescents, International Journal of Wilderness, Volume 4, Number 3; Foster, D.: Pressley Ridge Camp A "Natural" Piece of Juvenile Justice Puzzle, The Republican (a newspaper of Oakland, Maryland) (October 30, 2003); Brokenleg, M., Van Bockern, S.: The Science of Raising Courageous Kids, Reclaiming Children and Youth (Spring, 2003, pp.22-27); Luckner, J.L., Nadler, R.S.: Experiential Learning - What is it?, Excerpts from Processing the Experience (July, 1997), Experiential Educator, (Spring, 2004); Chapman, S., McPhee, P, and Proudman, B.: What is Experiential Education?, The Journal of Experiential Education (August, 1992); Berlin, A.: The Integration of Wilderness and Family Therapies in Treating Adolescents, Journal of Therapeutic Wilderness Camping, (Winter/Spring, 2004); Asmus, K., McDevitt, K.: Emotional Risk Management: Identifying and Working with Emotional Trauma in the Wilderness Setting through Body Centered Interventions, Journal of Therapeutic Wilderness Camping, (Winter/Spring, 2004); Boyd, S., Rauktis, M., Moore-Kurnot, J., Rumberger, D.: Applied Research in Therapeutic Wilderness Camp Settings: Research, Administrative, and Clinical Perspectives, Journal of Therapeutic Wilderness Camping (Winter/Spring, 2004); Jourdan, D.: Green Spirit Therapy, Journal of Therapeutic Wilderness Camping (Summer/Fall, 2002); Russell, K.: Does Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Treatment Work?, Journal of Therapeutic Wilderness Camping (Summer/Fall, 2002); Post, D.M.:A National Examination of Processing and Staff Characteristics In Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Programs, Journal of Therapeutic Wilderness Camping (Winter/Spring, 2003); Cockerham, S.:The Art and Practice of Therapeutic Wilderness Camping, on the web site of the National Association of Wilderness Camps.

As for kids sleeping on the ground (hope I am not mixing up stories here) I have had children and grandchildren repeatedly give up sleeping in their beds and wanting to sleep on the floor or ground. I have never figured that one out to this day. I just let them go through that phase.

None of the children at Woodside Trails slept on the ground. They all had beds in shelters and slept no more than four to a shelter. The children loved it. They are, despite their crimes, children after all. They wanted to be there, not just because they got the love they so desperately sought, but because it was home. In the end, shouldn't the children be the judge of the facility, not the politicians and the media?

Jack

[Dazeemay]

These weren't innocent little foster kids. This was a special camp for juvenile offenders. Every one of the kids there had hurt someone--raped/molested someone, robbed someone, beat someone, etc.

I have my doubts about them all being juvenile offenders. My doubts stem from the fact that CPS sent them to you. They have lied about our children.

they were caught up in the abuse cycle

I believe that the majority were caught up in this cycle because of cps and that is why they ended up there.

Well, from a mother/grandmother point of view I still would want my child to be able to live a normal life 9 months of the year in a home like setting. I know that you sited all of the benefits of being healthier living outdoors and I don't discount that but children need to feel the comfort of normal living I feel. And I say that very selfishly.

I wonder these days what is going to happen to my grandchildren when the rubber does hit the road in our country. We try to teach them to be tough and not expect so much of the world's luxuries because we know one day they are going to have to live hand to mouth and that day may be sooner than we all think.

[sedwards]

By the time our children have children if something isnt done they will take our children at birth.just like they do in other countrys ... we are supposed to be the land of the free thats the biggest lie ever told .. We arent free and neither are our children ... And each and every day it is getting worse they are finding other ways to lie and take our kids .. If we the ones that is supposed to have freedom of speech and rights dont stand up now it will only get worse ... dont we want to see our grankids or our grandkids grandkids for some of us that is . I myself dont see the difference in someone braking into our home and stealing our children and the goverment being payed to do it . it still boils back to they are our children not the goverments . i dont see there name nowhere on the birth certificate.. how would the ones that do have children like it if we found out who there children are and called in false reports on them .. wouldnt they love it .. thats what is being done to us ..

[Gary Shaw]

The bad news is, its not just CPS. It is every govenment agency in one form or another. They make laws for us and exempt themselves. Cops drive around, not in pursuit, at 20 - 25 miles per hour over the speed limit and ticket us if we go 10 over, all the while dressed as combat troops not police officers. Our legislators steal property from home owners. They take 53% of our earnings, and we let them. The reality is the government screws up everything it tries to do, they can't even pick up the garbage without problems. And the worst news is they think they are doing a good thing, after all we are to stupid to make decisions ourselves.

Gary

[good dad]

It all boils down to:

If we as parents tried to raise our families living outside in tents 365 days a year with a "pee wall"...We would have our children taken away in a heart beat...It would be considered both abuse/neglect.. Even if the kids liked it..

Cps turned on you and may have lied and mislead the public....Now you know how we feel, they can make things out to look sooo much worse then it is and make up allegations to suit their needs all "in the best interest of the children"

As Gary says:"The government screws up everything it tries to do".

It either goes way to far or not even close to enough

[Michael]

You would probably be suprised to learn that the Texas Juv. System is one of the largest reporters to CPS. Wheen thay have an offended that the parents cannot take back into the home for fear for themselves or other children then the Juv. System trys to get CPS t take the child so they do not have to.

These are very violent children. The only time I have ever been hurt was from a child from Juv. System. I ended up in the hospital and the child filed a complant against me that I would not let her take her backpack. Her mother had told us she carried a knife in the backpack. I had the police take the backpack and they did find a box opener in it. That was several years ago and I still have the marks from the cut and the stitches.

The police had not searched her and found the blade in her bra.

The police officer was female.

[jdr7181]

It all boils down to:

If we as parents tried to raise our families living outside in tents 365 days a year with a "pee wall"...We would have our children taken away in a heart beat...It would be considered both abuse/neglect.. Even if the kids liked it..

They did not live "outside in tents 365 days a year with a 'pee wall.'" I provide you with a link to get information refuting this garbage and you ignore it and just continue to spew the same false vile. THERE WAS NEVER ANY PEE WALL! EVER! NOT EVER! AT ALL! NEVER! Get it?

Furthermore, this was a therapeutic wilderness camp not just a family on a permanent, life-long camping trip. It was specifically designed to be rustic and primitive because there is overwhelming evidence that in such an environment children learn confidence-building skills and drop their self-defenses that would typically prevent them from taking a hard, hard look at themselves and how they hurt the people they love.

I have seen with my own eyes children rise from the ashes of their horrific childhood (legitimate, verified cases of abuse not the trumped up charges most of you face). I have seen the healing. I have laughed and cried with those boys and I will not apologize for a camp that had an 85% success rate treating children whose only other placement option in most cases was TYC. Care to debate the recidivism rate of that facility?

Cps turned on you and may have lied and mislead the public....Now you know how we feel, they can make things out to look sooo much worse then it is and make up allegations to suit their needs all "in the best interest of the children"

Firstly, let's be real clear about something. There is no ". . . may have lied and mislead the public." It's a fact and we have overwhelming, incontrovertible proof of it.

Secondly, please provide as many URLs as possible to news articles where you were PUBLICLY labelled a child molester and decried as a danger to children.

Thirdly, please understand this: I never, at no point in my narrative, did I ever suggest, imply, infer, or outright say I felt anything less than total empathy for the situation of the people on this forum. I have read book after book, site after site, story after story of massive abuses of family and individual rights by the child-saver community. It is disgusting and shameful.

Lastly, I'm not just here because I worked at Woodside Trails and want to set the record straight. I'm here because now CPS is trying to take my fiance's children away because of an RTB returned against me during their so-called "investigation" of Woodside Trails. An RTB they know they can't sustain, yet refuse to present their so-called evidence against me to a judge, denying my right to due process.

Fortunately, my complaints finally struck a chord and my request for a due process hearing (I am of course appealing the RTB finding) has been expedited and assigned to a CPS attorney. Within the year I will get my vindication. And I am in contact with both the ACLU of Texas and the Texas Civil Rights Project, both of which are reviewing my case for possible civil litigation. Such litigation through them could have far-reaching benefit to all families and children currently stuck in a corrupt and evil system. CPS is what Dr. M. Scott Peck was referrinig to in "People of the Lie."

As Gary says:"The government screws up everything it tries to do".

It either goes way to far or not even close to enough

I can't argue with that and even if I could, I don't think I would want to.

Jack

[jdr7181]

I have my doubts about them all being juvenile offenders. My doubts stem from the fact that CPS sent them to you. They have lied about our children.

First off, it's important to note that every case of abuse either of the child or by the child was verified. In other words, these were verified cases of abuse, not the trumped up charges many of you face by an agency way out of control. Secondly, less than half of the kids placed at woodside Trails were placed there by CPS. Remember, they only removed 22 kids themselves. There were four camps of twelve boys each. That's 48 boys. The majority of children at Woodside Trails were placed there by county Probationary Departments (judges--granted, not that much more reliable than CPS if at all, but . . .). The other children at Woodside Trails were private pay kids; i.e. kids whose families sought help for their child's emotional disturbances.

Well, from a mother/grandmother point of view I still would want my child to be able to live a normal life 9 months of the year in a home like setting. I know that you sited all of the benefits of being healthier living outdoors and I don't discount that but children need to feel the comfort of normal living I feel. And I say that very selfishly.

Begging your pardon, ma'am, having lived in both urban and rural areas of the state, I'm curious as to what exactly you find "normal" about it? The traffic? The crime rate? Cable TV? Conversely, what is abnormal about SEVERELY EMOTIONALLY DISTURBED children living in a therapeutic wilderness environment when it has been demonstrably shown to help?

Jack

[Dazeemay]

I did not mean to offend you by my statement. I just believe that every child should have the warmth and comfort of a loving home. My selfish idea of a home; I did say that. There is one thing you nor I can replace and that is the bond, good or bad, between a mother and her child.

I, too, have lived in urban and rural and a ranch in a tent 3 months out of every year and loved it. My parents worked during haying season because my father needed to be out in the fresh air and out of the mines where he worked slavishly. In fact he could not even be around the dust from hay and so he ground cicles and repaired the mowers.

I do know the benefits of your type of camp I am only referring and I will say it again to my selfish ideas of a comforting home. Family pictures, a fire in the fire place, a home cooked meal, surrounded by family. And yes my family gets that. I have not given into urban living even though I live there.