Sexual Abuse Classes/Therapy

[shnagle]

What rights do I have when it comes to attending court ordered sexual abuse classes that make me very uncomfortable when I listen to other parents very graphic description of their childrens actions?

Allow me to explain briefly so you can have a history.

In Feb 05 my daughter told me that my son molested her. She was 11 at the time of the incident last summer and he was 12.

I immediatley called her therapist to report the abuse and DCFS came out that day and removed both of my children from the home. They had no justifcation to remove my daughter, however felt we were not cooperating because we would not make any statements, my son was advised by his attorney to not make any statements and my daughter refused to talk to DCFS or the police. In retaliation, even after they removed my son who was the threat, they still took my daughter and placed her in foster care where she was forced to eat vicks vapor rub by the spoon full for her croopy cough.

My son was placed in a group home that night and we were not told of his whereabouts, nor was he advised that he could call us. We had no contact with him at all until the court hearing. When asked where he was, we were told we would be told after the hearing.

My daughter came home with us after the first court hearing, my son however remained in the group home for three weeks until they could get relatives approved.

The D.A. has dropped all charges against my son.

I hired my own attorney to the tune of almost $15,000 to date. Plus his criminal attorney was another $3000 but their is no price that I would not pay to have my children back.

My husband is using a court appointed attorney which is useless, thank god for mine.

I am in a position that no parent wants to be in. How can you choose between your children, you cant. Regardless of what he did I love him the same as i always have. You cant imagine the pain until your in the position. To have police officers asking you why you are protecting your son and not your daughter. Until you have walked in my shoes, you cannot pass judgement. I would not wish this pain on anyone.

We went thru mediation and after an enitre day of going back and forth they changed everything after we left, my attorney declined & we went to trial.

At trial, we pled guilty to two counts and they dropped one count. My attorney said he would do what I wanted, If I wanted my son home that day he would go in and fight and say this didnt happen, however my daughter would have to get on the stand and he warned me that it would be graphic and they will "rip her apart". I refused to have my daughter get on the stand and recant everything. I would not allow her to be a victim for a third time.

No matter how badly I wanted my son home, I would not put her through that. My poor baby girl, she told me "Mom, It's ok... I will get up there and I will let them say and ask anything they want, I will say it didnt happen if it means he gets to home today", I would never allow that. I told my attorney that I believed my daughter and I wanted to talk to my son, I pulled him aside and finally confronted him even though I was not supposed to discuss the case or the allegations. I asked him to tell me the truth, tell me yes or no. I got his answer and I told my attorney that my daughter will not take the stand. We pled guilty and are awaiting our next court appearance.

We are scheduled to go back to court in October, where according to our social worker as long as we are complying, she thinks it will be closed. (yeah, right!)

The terms that we agreed to were as follows:
Each parent to attend individual therapy to address case issues.
(my attorney had it worded for case issues since he felt it was much easier for us to comply with that wording).
Family counseling only if reccomended by childs/parents therapist.
Each child to attend Individual Counseling.
Each child to attend Group -CSAP (Childrens Sexual Abuse Program)

No parenting classes, no group therapy for parents.

This was agreed to but DCFS knew what they were doing. Because CSAP is run through DCFS and the only way they will enroll the children is if the parents participate.

This program can take up to 18 months average and meets weekly.

Please dont get me wrong, I know that my family needs therapy to deal with and overcome this, however I should be able to choose who they see and I should be able to use my private insurance. However DCFS will not allow Kaiser since they will not provide written reports to DCFS.

I work a full time job, my husband works two full time jobs and I pay for a portion of my private insurance through my paycheck. However am forced to pay out of pocket to the tune of $ 240 a week for the individual therapy ($60 x 4) as well as $20 per month for CSAP. We have therapy scheduled from Monday through Saturday and I have to do this for who knows how long .... We know they will not close the case in October, when has DCFS ever done anything they said they would do?

Now I have to go and listen to graphic, explicit sexual talk which makes me feel "creeped" out. I dont know if it would be categorized as sexual harassment, when I have to be subjected to listening to other parents talk about what their children do to themselves and other children... Do I have any say so at all in this?

Any suggestions, would be greatly appreciated!
Sorry for the long post.

[Anonymous]

I myself didn't have to attend any of these,but our family concelor we had made my girls tell me what happended to them by their step father and also i read their statements and i read it in the paper as well,and at first when they told me i was not wanting to hear it but after i while i asked them what happended and this is what they told me

That their step dad forced them to perform anal oral and regular sex acts on him on a regular basis,he would stick toilet paper in their mouths and duck tape them up.


Here is what the news paper had to say,and some of it was what CPS told the paper.


Jackson County Prosectors charged a Kansas City man thursday with rapeing two young girlsl he knew.

JDC was 36,was charged with two counts of forcible rape,four counts of statutory rape and eight counts of statutory sodomy in a series of alleged attacks on a 12-year old and a 14-year old.Soem of the alleged attacks occurred as far back as 1999.C was also charged with kidnapping and other charges.According to court records,the younger of the two girls told police this week the assaults began in 2002.During some some of the inccidents,her assasilant stuffed toilet paper in her mouth and and wrapped it over her eyes and duct taped it in place.

The 14 year old recounted similiar attacks and said that in some of the incidents her feet were also duct-taped.

The girls told authorities they had told their mother but she didn't believe them.

the girls were taken to Children's Mercy Hospital,where the staff determined they had bad injuries consistent with sexual assault.

C was taken into custody wednesday.The Prosecutor's office has requested $2000,000 bond


my girls never told me.And they questioned my girls under a state of duress and wiothout proper councel,and they told my girls at the time of questioning that they would be in foster home one night and returned to me the next.


So this is how i found out most of it.

Imagine reading what happended to your children in the paper.

Not at all easy

[shnagle]

How incredibly horrible for your daughters and yourself. I went numb when my daughter told me and everything moved in slow motion. I kept thinking that I would wake up from this nightmare but unfortunately I was living it.

I didnt want to believe what she was saying but I had to. I asked my daughter what happened but she does not remember a lot of it. She cant remember the day of the week or the time of the day. She cant even recall what month it was. According to my therapist it is very common for her to not remember.

I read the DCFS report where the Forensic interview was transcribed, again it was very vague.

My son has yet to speak to anyone other than his criminal attorney about what happened.

The court ordered us to not discuss the case with either child but we have so many questions that hopefully someday will be answered.

I cant imagine having to read it in the newspaper or hearing about it on the news, how devastating it must have been and continues to be. I will keep your family in my prayers.

[kdddav]

shnagle,

You have no rights anymore. You pled guilty and probably signed a whole lot of papers. Pled guilty though? They charge you with failure to protect garbage or some other such non offending parent crud? Either way, once you pled guilty, you are in their clutches. For the rest of your natural life.


Don't take this wrong, please, but there are a few things I need to point out.

One, you called the therapist to report the abuse. Big mistake. As you probably learned, reporting to a therapist is one of the biggest mistakes people can make about these types of things. Your son is a minor and so is your daughter. When children do bad things, discipline is important. When they do horendous things, getting your son and daughter a therapist may have been wise, but not wise to give Too Much Information. TMI is the downfall of most families, and Therapists are mandatory reporters. I mean, maybe your son seen the stuff on TV one day, and decided to try and repeat it on his sister. That would NOT be abuse, just a huge misunderstanding and maybe more regulation on the TV. That is an example, but dang, turning your kids in without perspective to the root of how it happened is kinda harsh. In reporting the "abuse" you had all ready labeled your minor son and convicted him in your heart. It backfired and burned you. You had no chance from the beginning.

Two, you pled guilty to whatever trash they said about you. Getting CPS involved is a monster to handle. Everybody on these boards knows how they can do all the wrong things and hurt more than help. Pleading guilty to "attempt" to get your kids back was wrong to the core, and it's going to cost you for the rest of your life. Like the American Safe Families Act. The law says, that if you have another baby, they will take that baby immediately at birth and place it into temp foster care for 15 to 22 Months because your a "possible" abuser and have been prosecuted successfully. And even worse, babies are highly adoptable, and then you will never see that chaild again.

It's horrible what happened to you. You're human, and humans make mistakes. Your attorney did you NO FAVORS when he supported you pleading guilty. You should have fought and kept your innocense clean. Now, you're in their system for the rest of your days. I am sorry as Hell this happened to you.

I fought three times, hard, brutal fights against brutal charges, all false of course, and I won. In the future, you know what mistakes not to repeat. I don't think any of that should have happened to you at all. The system is set up for you to fail. God bless and good luck.

The Tech

[shnagle]

Tech:

Nothing was taking the wrong way. Im a very open minded person who can accept another's point of view & or criticsm (however I dont feel you were criticizing) without taking offense.

We are all here to learn from one another and support each other through our struggles.

Unfortunately, I know now that they are mandated to report. I didnt offer much info, since my daughter didnt give me much info, I think that is why they dropped the criminal charges, nothing to go on,,, no evidence and she refuses to talk about it with anyone since she is in fear of being taken again. The therapist thankfully warned me and told me to be prepared for the fight of my life but I had no way out once it was said.
We had known something was wrong since our daughter went from a straight A student who loved school to jumping out of moving vehicles. She would not talk to us and that is why we had her in therapy for over a month before she finally told me.

We pled no contest, but in everyones eyes that is guilty.

The two counts were failure to protect & something to do with sexual abuse that I cannot recall off the top of my head the exact wording. They dropped the serious emotional damage charge.

I honestly don't recall signing anything at that court appearance and I havent yet received a copy of the latest report from that appearance. Im sure it will be arriving soon from my attorney along with his bill.

They reworded the incident to "inappropriate sexual contact between minors" .... like that makes a difference to them.

We cannot have anymore children so thankfully I dont have to worry about them taking any future children of ours.

I feel terrible guilt that what happened was our fault and that we failed as parents. I dont know why it happened and that is why they & we are in therapy to get to the root of the problem.

I just feel I should be allowed to use my private insurance and not have to pay out of pocket, but they will not allow it.

Believe me, I wont make the same mistake twice.

This has been harsh, the famiies has taken sides when there is no side to take. We have been labeled by my family as "white trailer trash who belong on the Jerry Springer show" what is that about?

Both of our families feel that my daughter made the entire story up. My husbands family demanded my daughter be made to tell the truth. Of course DCFS just loves this.... We did not want to tell our families but inevitably had to and had agreed to only tell our parents who then went and told our siblings who told everyone else. We are no longer invited to family gatherings from my side of the family. I wouldnt go even if I was invited, why subject my daughter to that?

My son lives with my inlaws and we have unmonitored visits, however he cannot come to our home. The children are allowed to visit each other with supervision by us or his parents, they cannot be alone.

My daughter said she still loves her brother through all of this. She is not afraid of him and never was. She hasnt forgiven him completely but is working on it and wants her brother to come home.

We will see what happens..... Im prepared for the worst.

[Anonymous]

the coyrt also ordered us not to discuss the case with each other,but what if the child feels like they want to talk about it since you are the parent,and the foster/bio parent councelor won't listen no more,then where does that leave a family?

the way i see it if a child wants to discuss it with their parent they should.But the 1st amendment right you can not have a gag order on you.

[mrsmac]

'One, you called the therapist to report the abuse. Big mistake. As you probably learned, reporting to a therapist is one of the biggest mistakes people can make about these types of things.'

I understand mandatory reporting. Im a retired RN, worked in an elementary school and also was a Scout leader for the Beavers. Fortunately I never had to place a report and the school I worked at and the Scouts I was with would probably err on the side of the family not to report, at least this was the case at that time.

My concern is, when you have an incident like is named above, there are grave family situations, how does the family receive help. Who are you safe talking with, how do you help the child, especially the older child/teen. As a mom, this would be devastating. What does one do to deal with this and help all the family who you love dearly.

[shnagle]

I feel that had I not called the therapist, somehow they still would have found out somehow.

Unless there was some way to get help without having the therapist report it.

Im new to all of this, only been dealing with DCFS since February and learnin as Im going. I knew from the moment that the social worker opened her mouth ... just by the tone of her voice and the way she said "im here to help".... It escalated when I refused to allow her or the police in my home. When I told her that I know I have rights and unless she has a warrant she nor the police were entering my home. She told me word for word...

"There is a hard way to do this and an easy way, it looks like you want to go the hard route".... I told her I dont see it that way, I know I have rights, unless you have a warrant your not stepping in my home. My children will come outside & speak with you however they will more than likely tell you the same thing I have said. " I am not making any statements on the advice of our attorney"..... she asked the children to come out so she can talk with them alone, again I refused. I told whatever needs to be said or asked can be done in the prseence of myself.

The children came out on the porch, told her they did not want to make any statements and she said, "ok... the police on on their way... we will see how you like that".

I said the exact same thing to th police. Told them unless they were to arrest my son or had a court order or a warrant they were not going into my home.

Of course they took both my children because I completely pissed them off.... she said it had gone to far so she was taking my daughter even after my son had been removed and not allowed to say goodbye to us or anything.

I made the biggest mistake of our lives that day.... Ugh! I will fight on!

[Anonymous]

My children told their therapist when we had family therapy and showed her what their step mom did to my 15 year old daughter she didn't even report it,and even the neglect of my daughters tooth which is 4 months bad she hasn't reported it ithert.and had the courage to tell my girls last week doesn't look like u r going home with your mom.

And now my 14 year old daughter told my husband sunday that her bio dad shot their step mom in the stomach with a paint ball gun,would this not be showing some type of assault or abuse in front of a child?

[mrsmac]

Being shot by a paintball gun here in Ontario, Canada, warrants a call to the police. My son was shot while delivering papers and reported it and the police conferred with him.

Just recently a young woman in the neighbourhood was shot with the same when walking down the street. Again the police came and took the report. The difficulty is finding the culprit when it is a random shooting. Definitely a type of assault.

[Anonymous]

Thats what i was thinking some type of assault,but there is nothing i can do about it,even if i report it nothing will happen to them,nothing i have reported has been admitted to or even was enough evidence to return my children to me.The commissioner threw evetything out that my attorney had in our report.I don't want one of my kids to do the samr thing to each other or one of their stepsiblings oe even a friend,and since we have a gag order (supposedly) we are no to discuss anything that goes on there and no discussing the child custody case.SO even if we do tell my attorney nothing will come out of it,what do you suggest we do aboout this? I am trying to prove that there is abuse and also parental neglect on the behalf of my ex husband and his wife by doing such things as this.and teaching the kids to be abuseive.

[robinp25]

See here is where you are all wrong, no matter who it was that did this to your child, wether a strange adult or another child or your other child, or a father step father or a mother or step mother!!!!! NO MATTER WHO IT WAS THAT SEXUALLY ASSULTED YOUR CHILD NEEDS TO PAY FOR HIS/HER ACTIONS...... it would be hard for you to turn your own child in for it, but he can not go on in life thinking it was ok to do this.. and it wasnt that bad of punnishment...... you should have called the police and had them handle it, no theropist is going to make sure that he has penalties, no theropist can make sure that the child abusing will never do it again!!! JUST ABOUT ALL THE ADULTS THAT HAVE DONT THIS HAS GONE RIGHT BACK TO RAPING AND MALESTING YOUNG CHILDREN AND OF COURSE OTHER ADULTS, SOMETHINGS NEVER CHANGE!

I am 8 months pregnant, i have a 7 year old daughter, the guy im pregnant by isnt my oldests father! i found out that he is a baby rapper..... cut all ties to him, now my oldest theropist is telling me that she thinks my daughter has been assulted by this man that i am pregnant by, i am having a girl, will i allow him to be with our daughter with out supervision? HELL NO!!! AND THAT IS HER FATHER!!............... when i was 5 years old i was rapped by my moms brother, he desidedto rape his step daughter at 5 years old also, needless to say he is in prison with no chance of parole!!................when i was 11 i was malested by my 2nd cuz.... i called the cops on him myself at school the next day, went to the police station and vidio recorded my testimony about the happenings of that night......... my aunt threatined to kill me if i didnt go to the cops and tell them that it was a lie and i just wanted attension, i did, he got into no trouble...................... all relitives of mine, i dont care who it is or what they did if they touched the child incorrectly and in a sexual conduct then they need to pay the price for doing such a thing!!! they will never learn, prison cant help most of them!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

my kids step dad did it.and now they are being abused by their step mom.

[robinp25]

someone always told me documentation, documentation documentation........... if you have a log (in pen) of the things you know or are told by whom ever it is hard to disreguard....... shows you took steps to handle the situation, and you took the steps to make sure that somehting was going to be done to stop it from happening...... go back and think of EVERYTHING you were told, everything you seen and any pic or anything that would co aside with your story......... go back and start at the beginning, try to remember dates and tiomes that you tried to have something done about it........ and just keep a log of it, it can be used in court and with the police........ good luck

[Anonymous]

i have documented things,and it was even brought up in court and the judge ignored it.And doesn't help when the judge is familiar with them.

[robinp25]

keep the documentation and keep adding too it, sooner or later they will have to listen to you!!! i wonder if you can put in for a change of judge or somehting like that?!? call it getting too personal or somehting in reguard to that.....

[Anonymous]

my attorney has done this,and also a appaeal but haven't heard anything as of yet and that was in court as of june 28th

[robinp25]

dont they have a certian amount of time to respond to it?
is your attny a alright attny? i mean does he work for you?

[Anonymous]

he is a fantastic one,i am paying out of pocket

[robinp25]

costing a fortune im sure! and that my dear is the only reason he is working for you!!!
does the courts have a certian amount of time to follow up with a request? or like a certian amout of time to give your attny word about the actions being taken in re: to your request?

[Anonymous]

i know they said we had 30 days from the recieve of the court order which was redieved july 12 and shortly after that we filed it,but the courts are not hurrying at all in my case,they are giving my kids dad time to re modify the divorce decree from 11 years ago as directed by the commissioner,so my atty is going to file a motion to find out why it is taking so long,the next court date for the kids is dec 14th,and thats another reason why they have set it that long so he can get this done,and the step mom id interfering in the reunfication with us,the dad is wanting to send them home and due to her being friends with the GAL/DCS supervisor they are drawing out,and the GAL is trying to stop the ex from making his arrears payments as ne is directed to do so.I know someone here told me that there is a law that says a step parent cannot interfere with reunification and i can't find it.

[robinp25]

ok, the GAL can not be personally involved in the case!! neither can the judge! if they know you they can not form a optomistic defence for the kids, (i think i said that right) or they can not do what is in the best intrest of the kids if they have a personal tie to the case....WHATS SO EVER! that means in any way shape of form, if the judge is getting too personal, then he needs to be replaced, if the GAL is friends with someone in the case than he needs to be changed also!!!!!.,.......... December is a long time from now, and that is a long time to allow some one to continue to abuse your children........ i have to go some searching but if i can find it i will give you the number to this lady from the American Family Advocacy Center..... stick around i will look it should take only a few mins

you have mesnger?

[robinp25]

i cant find the number, it would have neem right here if i had it still, it has been for ever since ive used it, but if you look her up in your computer, her name is Suzanne Shell, she wrote a book called profane Justice.... i had her number, and a co workers or hers, but anyways, her co worker is Kay Henson......... if i find it i will get into ca=ontact with you...... the book she wrote is a EXELANT book, i loved it and it gave me alot of insight on my own case..... let me tell you i took alot of notes, i was locked up with Kay and Suzanne sent her the book for me to read loved it!! i think you will too!!
i hope you get what you need and i hope you find the answers your looking for..

[Anonymous]

The commissioner i have is the same person that removed my kids dads wifes 2 kids from them due to neglect and abuse from a meth lab blowing up 8 years ago.

And the GAL/DCS supervisior are always having private confers with the step mom and the bio dad.

And even thou my attorney admitted into evidence the sex offender list with a sex offender on it who is a friend of my kids dad.the judge ignored it,and also a noterized letter of the physical abuse done to my 15 year old daughter by her step mom,the judge ignored all of it and so the GAL/Commissioner/DCS still left my children with them.

Everything that was brought up in court to my ex husband the judge ignored it and said it wasn't enough evidence.I need some kind of link to show me that families that have or are involved with cps/DCS can not have a child placed in their home.

And the judge has refused to step down and continues to go in favor of my ex and his wife.

And after all being the same judge that removed the step moms children.And my kids are not talked to by the GAL at all.

[robinp25]

see what you can do to find that book i told you about! there is alot of resorceful info in there that can help you