Legal or Illegal

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AllForThisSite
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Legal or Illegal

Postby AllForThisSite » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:14 pm

I was reading another thread on this site and it reminded me of a conversation that I had with my husband's mother the other day. We were discussing spanking as a form of discipline--because we saw the bit on the news about the foster parent that locked 11 kids in cages as a form of discipline .

She said that a CW told her one time that it was illegal to strike a child in any form or fashion and advised her to tell anyone that she saw or knew of that spanked their children that what they were doing was illegal and against the law.

Now with that said, 3 1/2 years ago, my oldest son got into trouble at school and

the Principal asked me, "Do you want to take him home and spank him or do you want me to take care of it here at the school?"

I said, "I thought you couldn't paddle children anymore in schools."

She said, "Only if you sign a release form giving me permission and before I can paddle him you have to be present."

I then asked her, "How is that legal? I thought it was illegal to spank a child."

She said, "You may spank a child with a paddle or open hand on the bottom but you cannot use a hickory switch, belt, or other item."

What I want to know is.. why are CW's telling parents that it is against the law to spank a child?? Every CW we've ever had have told us if their kids got out of line that they would take a belt to their kids' hind-end with no questions asked. Then again we never had any calls about how we disciplined our children. I guess if someone called CPS and told them we beat our kids with iron posts that they would be out here telling us that they would talk to their kids...no questions asked.
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Parents Against Social Services
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kdddav
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Postby kdddav » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:58 am

Check out this link after you finish reading my reply.

http://www.corpun.com/uss00504.htm

Now, this is why Case Workers "feel" it's illegal when in fact, it's not illegal to discipline your children. The difference between discipline and abuse are defined. In fact, when you read that link and do some searches yourself, you will find it's still a hot debate today. As for laws... haha... the Case Worker has no clue there isn't a single defining law yet, though it has been talked about and discussed over the fact there should be one.

The Spank but not abuse is defined as such...

1. Open palm only, empty hand, on the fatty portion of the butt.

2. No marks, imprints or bruises can be seen afterwards.

3. No belts, paddles, switches or wound up towels. (Wind up a towel and snap your foot with it, I promise, you'll do the rain dance trying to recover.)

4. No forceful yanking by the arm or other appendages to lift the child off the floor while spanking.

5. Tone of voice can be firm, but no screaming at the child while giving the spanking.

In some States, it's against the law to use a belt or paddle, because it would be aggravated assault with a weapon. If this was so in your State, School would not have any forms for you to sign. All that form is designed to do is give them the authority to do what you can do yourself, and can do so legally.

If your Case Worker tells you it's illegal and she is right and everybody else in the world is wrong, calmly drop her the names of the Superintendant of your School Board, your child's Principle and Assistant Principle and let her know they are child abusers cause they endorse and/or spank children, and forward a copy of the permission note (unsigned of course) from the school asking for permission to illegally spank children. Maintain the fact it's an anonymous tip.

If that doesn't educate her, the School Board Lawyers and the State Attorney will.

Good luck

The Tech
"The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State." —Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels, Hitler’s Propaganda Minister

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:15 am

We have a Spanking Law in effect in Canada that allows Parents to choose to spank or swat on the butt of their Kids....no weapons allowed, no hits on the head.....etc etc Lots of Parents spank their Kids and CPS is now challenging the Spanking Law saying it is a form of abuse.

Right now Parents that choose Spanking as a Discipline form, is fighting with CPS....and the CPS fighting with the Government to drop the Spanking Law. and Vice versa.

When One Mother came told me that she spanks her child and told CPS OFF that there is a Spanking Law in effect that allows her to spank her child so CPS cannot do nothing about that, but CPS do come and harrass her about that subject, and would make up lies that she left marks but there aren't any. CPS would try to make it stick but it backfired. :lol:

Many CPS and Doctors are debating about this Spanking, whether is good and warranted to teach a Child and Churches likes the Idea because the Bible supports it. It is a very debatable Topic where People are trying to install who is RIGHT and who is WRONG>. All I am saying this will be debatable for long time to come. Even Schools thinks it is a good idea because the Kids of today are getting out of control and bad behavior esclates all because lack of supervision. There is only one Supervision Person outside at Recess over looking 90 Kids. There should have been three People to supervise Kids on three groups of Ages..... Even day care centres has guidelines to how many teachers should be watching Kids....such as one Teacher should be with at least 8 to 12 Kids.

The subject is easier for Canada because we currently have Spanking Law in effect in Canada, and none in USA so that is why CPS in USA is saying it is illegal because they don't believe in Spanking, but Cages are okay? :shock: This will backfire on CPS because they don't resort to any Abuse but in fact they ARE abusing Foster Kids.....this will be also debatable for long time to come.

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Chaco
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Postby Chaco » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:07 pm

It's been a few months, but the last time I looked, spanking (by parents) was LEGAL. Some states have made SCHOOL spankings illegal but parents have the right to spank their child, no matter what state you live in.

Social workers all over the nation will try to say it's illegal to spank our own children but you have to remember, SW LIE!

Even Schools thinks it is a good idea because the Kids of today are getting out of control and bad behavior esclates all because lack of supervision.


When a teacher is PAID to teach our children, then that teacher NEEDS to do their job! I don't believe spanking a child has any business in the schools!!! I would be so mad if someone laid a single hand on one of my children! In the quote above, it mentions "lack of supervision" and I agree with this 100%, if the teachers were SUPERVISING our children, they wouldn't have the opportunity to get in SO MUCH TROUBLE that the child "required" a spanking!

I think it's pretty clear that the government has bitten off more than it can chew when it comes to education. Until they figure out that it takes more than one person to HELP 20 students, they'll never fix the problem. What's worse is the PLAYGROUND, one teacher or aide to watch 100 or more kids at the same time. Or worse yet, lunch time on the high school campus! NO TEACHERS anywhere! Maybe a couple of security guards, maybe not. That's a pick-em.

I just asked my niece how many security guards she sees at her school, she said maybe 3 or 4. There are 4700 kids enrolled between the two high school campuses!!! Now who here CAN'T see a problem with this? Where's the common sense? I realize ALL the kids aren't at lunch at the same time (two lunch periods), and I know there are two campuses. So divide the 4700 by 4 and you have nearly 1200 students being watched by 3 or 4 security guards. This gives the kids nearly ONE HOUR of unsupervised time to do ANYTHING they want! Oops, I nearly forgot, MOST of the kids eat from the SNACK BAR and NOT the cafeteria... so this puts them OUTSIDE wondering around the campus! The FEW kids that eat the cafeteria food only have the cafeteria workers watching them.

My kids have told me there are kids having sex during lunch break and there are fights. The kids know where the security guards DON'T go. Most of the time NO ADULT EVER FINDS OUT. What are they going to do IF they catch the kids? SPANK them? GOOD GRIEF! Isn't it great to know that the government is SOOOO good at supervising our children?

They're PAID to do a job. Teach our children! Then we're told our children ARE SAFE at school and they are being supervised. No they're not. Then when they fail to DO THEIR JOB, they want to HIT OUR CHILDREN! I don't think so.

I could rant all day long about the school system. Sorry. It's not all that much different from CPS. It's not about the children, it's all about the money.

It's kind of ironic how one government entity thinks hitting our children is the "answer" and the other entity tells the PARENTS it's illegal.

Chaco
My thought for the day.........
CPS workers are like Slinkies

Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:00 am

Chaco:

I agree with you 100% on this Problem, It also reminds me of Foster Care System where they have 1 to 2 yrs old crying themselves to sleep and has a diaper rash and there are no one there to hold them, just leave 'em in their cribs and they have their pay cheque and go home all happy. It just makes me sick to my stomach and CPS tells us that they are the BEST Protector in the Country???? They have the best guidelines on "how to discipline your Kids" THEIR way! If that was the case, then WHY are the Schools having a hard time to give discipline to Kids when they are in Chaotic mode? I am laughing at the idea that the Government "thinks they got it" :idea: when things are looking so bad in their "so called GREAT system">. :roll:

Even the Doctors are "puzzled" and the Judges are "puzzled" to why the Junveiles are increasing with Crimes that entails Mischief, Vandalism, Robberies, and so forth. One Judge passed a Spanking Law in Canada because he thought this is what they "deserved". CPS are having a field day with this one. Debating with the Government, Schools, Doctors, to find out the "Right Solution" where there aren't any? There are so many Board Meetings with Doctors, Principals, CPS, Government Officials to tackle this very same "Problem" and trying to deal with the Problem. They got the solution to this "Blame it all on the Parents". Yup! So CPS had the solution to this by taking away the Kids where the Problems are being "ignored" time and time again. They may shelf the Problem on the Shelf but it will come up all the time when the Schools tackle this Problem over and over.

They might have a new solution to the Problem, Put them in Cages and throw away the key. Yup that would solve the Problem, ya think? (nodding thinking yea right....) :roll:

Say 20 more Years from now, they will be discussing the same Problem once again.....what to do with Defiant Kids???? They thought taking Kids away from the Parents would solve the whole dilemma but I don't think so.....it would make the Problem "worse" off than it already orginally was.....And soon United Nations would be discussing about the treatment to Children and would talk their ears off about Human Rights Violations.....NOW whose fault is it?

Governments are famous to lay the "blame game" on everybody else, but mostly on Parents, but think about this one for a second.....it was the CPS that tells Parents what to do....change their ways with their "supposed good services", then it all backfires? Now Doctors are challenging CPS, and Schools challening CPS to do something, then Government challenges the Parents, then the Judges challenge its own Government, now who is wrong? :shock:

Hell, let the Parents do their Jobs then let the Schools do their Job, and let the Government do their Jobs....equally and separately, good idea? :idea:

Nope, Let's all work together? Oh yea, how about inviting the Politician to come in and have Tea in your Kitchen and "talk about what is wrong with your Kids"??? Gee I don't think so......That is why there are SOOOO many Medicating Kids today....just pop the pill and everyone is happy camper. :wink: :roll:

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Postby gideonmacleish » Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:27 pm

When it comes to spanking, a good idea is to "name drop" names of respected "experts" who support corporal punishment when it is lovingly administered.

A good name to drop in this regard is that of Dr. James Dobson. While opinions on his theology vary, he is nonetheless a respected psychologist and considered by many to be an "expert" on parenting. By dropping his name, you show that you've done some research into the issue and have the capability to do more. No judge or lawyer wants to be the jurist of record on a decision that is later overturned and cited as a precedent setting case in a higher court.

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DontBiteMyNose
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Postby DontBiteMyNose » Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:56 am

You should call CPS on the school administrator. Get the beehive swarming. Film it, send CPS the release form. So, when one of the teachers or school employees call CPS on you, show them that the educators are the abusors.

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Chaco
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Postby Chaco » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:55 am

DontBiteMyNose wrote:You should call CPS on the school administrator. Get the beehive swarming. Film it, send CPS the release form. So, when one of the teachers or school employees call CPS on you, show them that the educators are the abusors.



Here's an article on a different gripe against the school. It's absolutely disgusting that any child should have to use these bathrooms. It's yet another reason the government has no business taking care of children. How long have they had to perfect this? And they can't get something as simple as a BATHROOM right! They are pathetic! Once again, it's all about the money and has nothing to do with the health of the children.
http://www.cbs2.com/specialassign/local ... 01725.html

Chaco
My thought for the day.........

CPS workers are like Slinkies



Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.


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