Evaluation- take it or decline it? New Here What to do?

[good dad]

Were you smoking pot to relieve the pain of a disease?

The "Law" doesn't distinguish between it.

Mn law says:

A Child in need of protection or services:

(9) is one whose behavior, condition, or environment is
such as to be injurious or dangerous to the child or others. An
injurious or dangerous environment may include, but is not
limited to, the exposure of a child to criminal activity in the
child's home;


Any pot use can be considered criminal activity because it is illegal..

I don't agree with it, but it's written that way

[Frustrated]

I believe it is wise to turn down THEIR Evaluations and DO YOUR OWN!

CPS Doctors, CPS Therapists, CPS Counsellors, CPS Evaluators ARE PAID to GO in CPS' favour. They will find something bad about you. Never almost positive, but negative about you. Almost always. They are PAID to create a new case for you to go into THEIR SERVICES OR SERVICE PROVIDERS such as Drug UA, Counselling, Therapy, Psch. Testing, etc...etc...

I had went to CPS Doctor and they found 7 different disorders in my Son alone whereas I went to my OWN, 3 different Doctors of my own, and they concluded that he does not have those 7 Disorders, but rather only has O.D.D. alone. But no ADD< ADHD>, etc...

If you go to their CPS Evaluations, they will probably find him as a Drug Narcissitic Addict or worse label they could think of. It is never positive. That is why they bring up the Evaluations so they can find the goodies on you and your Family. So they can prove their case, their cause for pursuing this case. They wanted to find this "founded" rather than "unfounded".

If that was me in the Future, I would turn down their Services and go do it on my OWN. I have been doing things on my OWN and the CPS had backed off and gone under their shells.

I would suggest you to find your own Doctor and see what he has to say about this whole thing. If he has a Medical Reason, then tell them to get lost. I would suggest you to have your Lawyer of your own, to protect you and your Family's interests. Forget about this Lawyer that asks $7,500. Go out and do more research on Lawyers that would do CPS Cases, and would be fair Lawyer, not against you. This is by far, a Medical Discrimiation and he has every right to treat himself due to Cancer. Plain and Simple. I know for sure that no one can tell a Cancer Patient "what to do". I would suggest you to read the Manual about Medical Right and read the Laws on Medical Rights.

I even think the Case alone should not have been pursued, because it has nothing to do with the Children. The Children were not abused or neglected whatosver, so Case closed and unfounded. Simple. I know that there are lots of Parents out there that are Sick, do in fact smoke Pot, but never in front of the Children. I know this much, because I have seen them and the Kids are ALWAYS Supervised by someone, there was a Grandparent in the home, there was an Aunt in the home, there was an extended Family members in the home because they are helping out to watch the Children while the Husband is sick and being cared for by the Wife and he was Sick in Bed. Come on, leave the Sick alone. It is enough to have the Children to lose their Father, so let him rest in peace in the home with the Family that loves him and cared for him. I know this much, because I have see so many Family Relatives with Cancer. Cancer runs in my Family, ya know? They all died in the home with their Families. CPS should leave Cancer Patients alone. They deserve to die with dignity.

[Dan Sullivan]

Were you smoking pot to relieve the pain of a disease?

Any pot use can be considered criminal activity because it is illegal..

I don't agree with it, but it's written that way

Is personal use a felony?

[good dad]

Is personal use a felony?

Nope..... small amount is a $100.00 fine..

Part of my arguement was if a police officer stopped someone walking with their child and found pot, They would get a ticket and walk away...... with their child.

The "Criminal law" and the laws given to CPS are so contradictive that it amazes me.

[RKeyser]

Dan, pot is illegal,, for whatever reason,,,, a doc can prescribe it for
glaucoma, but that's usually in a pill form. I agree it should be legal for some people but since it ain't then an investigation there will be.

[Dan Sullivan]

Is personal use a felony?

Nope..... small amount is a $100.00 fine..

It's illegal to cut the tags off of mattresses and pillows.

Can they remove kids because of that?

[Frustrated]

This is ridiculous. Here in Canada, the Person is allowed small substance of Pot, because of his Illness or Disease. He is allowed 30 grams of it or 3 grams I forget. The fine is about $250.00. The Police said, he is allowed to do it, as long he has a Medical REASON to do it and not to do it in front of the Children. That's it. Police usually let the Person go on a Medical purposes, but they say it is still illegal. But nothing they can do about it, because the Person is plain sick in plain sight. Canada is even thinking about decriminalizing Pot, allowing Sick People use it in small sustance only. No Criminal charges whatosever. none.

I bet you, that half of the Parents are using Pot in Canada. It is becoming of a Norm every day. Come on, I have seen them everywhere. They just don't do it in front of their Children. They do it everywhere. I have seen Cops smoking Pot, I have seen Lawyers smoke Pot, I have seen Congressmen smoke Pot, I have seen Doctors smoke Pot, it is typically almost everyone using them. Even happy hippy College folks smoke them to pass some tests. Everybody is using them. I bet you 99% that one of the CPS worker is even smoking Pot. I have seen her at a Party smoking it up. It was at an event, that does the fundrasing stuff, she was behind the bar, behind the bathroom and I go use the Toilet, and outside it leads to the Bathroom and there she was...smoking Pot. Yup, a CPS Worker! Everywhere you go, you would see at least one smoking it up, there is no place you can really avoid these stuff. It is everywhere just like they sell Alcohol off these shelves, and Cigarettes, the only difference is that Pot is illegal and Alcohol and Cigarettes are legal. My opinion that Alcohol and Cigarettes are far more damaging to people's health than Pot. Hell no, I don't smoke them, but I see everyone out there does. There is no denying it. Even Cops smoke them.

[good dad]

It's illegal to cut the tags off of mattresses and pillows.

Can they remove kids because of that?

Why don't you research it and get back to me about it

[scarfyrre]

Is personal use a felony?

Nope..... small amount is a $100.00 fine..

It's illegal to cut the tags off of mattresses and pillows.

Can they remove kids because of that?

It's only illegal for anyone but the consumer to cut them off. Once we buy it, we can do with it what we want.

Rebel that I am, I cut them first thing!! :p

The county I live in in GA would take kids for parking tickets if they could. Smoking pot, even if the poor person is days from dying, would not only get the kids removed, but the sick person thrown in jail.

Pot is illegal, period, and the extreme right-wingers don't give a care if it helps those dying. God forbid they see past their noses.

I went to a NORML rally back in '92. Saw the Black Crows for free, and I still have the tshirt listing all the good things about pot. Now to convince the Bush-ites it's about as harmless as a vodka tonic.

If I knew what I know now back when that biotch knocked on my door, I would've told her to shove it and pointed to the way out of my subdivision. Read your state's manual, weigh it with what we've told you, and make the best decision that you can.

[Frustrated]

Even back then, in the 60's and 70's, lots of Parents so hippy, long hairs, burned their bras, protested the Wars, they smoked Pot, and they never got their Children taken away. Back then, it was never an "issue", but today...it is now an "issue". But they don't wanna go there, because they would think about taxing these Pot then. Just like Alcohol and Cigarettes. But they won't go there then. They are afraid to get slashed by those chrisitans right winger's saying it is a no-no's...but those same Christians had smoked at least once in their Lifetime. come on, I know that much cos I have seen them do it. It is not New thing, it is an OLD thing, it is even around for Centuries, and grown here on Earth as a Plant for some reason, it HAD A REASON! A medical Plant! God made them for a reason, so it has a purpose for the People to use them Medical wise. God did not make Alcohol, People did. Pot was made into a Cigarette, People's Idea but the Plant itself was created on Earth from God. Tobacco Plant as well, has the same result, but some body put Nictotine inside that is harmful for People and get Cancer this way. I bet you that the Pot has been around 18th Century in a form of a Pipe. You can often wonder why the Indians spend so much time in their Sweat Tents.

[TGWB]

Thanks everyone. And yes Dan, it was the evaluation person that called. She said she received the referral to call my husband from the county sheriffs office (CPS). We have not heard a thing from the actual CPS worker himself since the day he was here a month ago.

I'm back and forth about this evaluation. My husband is supposed to call next week about rescheduling it. Maybe he should just wait for her to call him. Maybe she won't (wishful thinking). She doesn't seem to be very persistant about it though considering all the attemps my husband has made to contact her about it. If she does call then maybe we will have decided what to do by then. We can politely say that if this isn't something he has to do then we would just as soon not disturb anymore of our family life and inconvenience of taking time away from work to do it. Does that sound ok?

Since it seems best not to contact CPS, I guess I won't bother bringing up who we think it was that called and why. If they contact me and it comes up I will just state who we believe it was and say that we would not help her with money and a place to stay to come see her children and she retaliated. This is the truth, leaving out her obvious lack of character, mental stability and drug addictions.

Aside from doing the guardinship, I think the only thing to do is wait it out and see what happens next. For the person who mentioned it, we did not pay that lawyer or retain his services. We only met with him once as a consulation. I know some will disagree, but I just don't feel that it is necessary for us to spend the money on an attorney right now. As someone else stated, I think the time to have had one was at the beginning before letting them in our home. We are past that point, but until something is officially charged or further aggressive action is taken, we will do our best to defend ourselves and hope that in the end our efforts as responsible, loving parents wins out. I'll keep you posted because I value the support and advice you have all given to me. Thank you.

[Dan Sullivan]

I'm back and forth about this evaluation. My husband is supposed to call next week about rescheduling it. Maybe he should just wait for her to call him. Maybe she won't (wishful thinking). She doesn't seem to be very persistant about it though considering all the attemps my husband has made to contact her about it. If she does call then maybe we will have decided what to do by then. We can politely say that if this isn't something he has to do then we would just as soon not disturb anymore of our family life and inconvenience of taking time away from work to do it. Does that sound ok?

Fine by me.

I just don't feel that it is necessary for us to spend the money on an attorney right now.

True.

You're doing fine.

Best, Dan

[Dazeemay]

Always keep the guardianship over your children.

Have copies in your purse in case you have to go to the hospital ER. Never go to the ER if you can avoid it. These drs are on a contract and the hospital here in our state says that they are not responsible for anything they do wrong. I am assuming it is like that in other states too.

If you must go to the ER then be sure you have the guardianship papers with you. These drs are notorious for calling cps. I know you said that they are suppose to call cps if there are broken bones, but then why does not your regular dr. have to phone them? If that were the case many more children would be in cps clutches.

Our neighbors children have broken their bones many times playing. They are rough boys and yet cps was not called once.

One other thing, Dan correct me if I am wrong, but this is the second call (the first one should never have been made in my estimation) and the third call will make them more aggressive towards you. This is why you need to keep the guardianship on hand at all times.

[Dan Sullivan]

One other thing, Dan correct me if I am wrong, but this is the second call (the first one should never have been made in my estimation)

We don't know the circumstances of that injury.

What does matter is the report was unfounded.

and the third call will make them more aggressive towards you. This is why you need to keep the guardianship on hand at all times.

I don't disagree with the guardianship... if it's held till needed.

In this case, right now, I don't think it's necessary.

Best, Dan

[Dazeemay]

In this case, right now, I don't think it's necessary.

Guardianship is always necessary.

Every parent should put their guardianship papers in school files. Carry them at all times for protection of their children. This is as necessary as having health insurance, life insurance, etc.

I guess what I was trying to say about the 3rd call is this.

Sometime back there was a discussion about the number of times cps is called determines how agressive they will be toward you after so many calls. Even if unfounded your name is there and they will think that a second or third time it is time to think about taking the children away.

Look how he kept mentioning the first call; if he was that way think about if they get a third call and they review the records and see that they had two previous calls. They are in the system for good as I see it and that is why to never let down on the guardianship.

[Enchanted*Forester]

I'd get a lawyer, first and foremost, but, a lawyer shouldn't cost you that much! I went looking for one near me (Michigan) and the higher end attorney wanted a $2500 retainer.

From what my family has gone through, I don't trust anything the DHS says. It seem the more you cooperate, the more they get you on. My husband and I have done nothing to our child and the annonymous caller that started the whole thing lied through her teeth (yes, we know who did it, but not why).

I have since been labeled an anti-social, narcisistc, drug abusing alcoholic, none of which is true. But, for this my husband and I are in 7 different "programs." I wish I new then what I've learned in this site now. Don't ever think the DHS are there to help you. It's never been the case. And about the "just pot:" I'm in a class with "just pot" users who haven't even seen their kids in months because of it. Be very careful. I'd move out of the county you live in before this becomes a full blown case.

Not a lawyer, but wanted to share my experiences with you.

[TGWB]

I'd move out of the county you live in before this becomes a full blown case.

For a home owner, this seems very extreme. We have lived here for 12 years, 10 of which we have owned our home. Good schools, family, and friends are close. I'm not going to uproot my entire livelyhood to "run" from this. The thought seems insane. I can see your point of getting away from these problems, but I don't think that is going to matter much in the long run. Maybe for someone who rents an apartment or home, but selling and buying another home is a whole different department in my book. Just my thoughts, but I do appreciate your advice and opinions.

We are not doing the evaluation. We will see what happens when CPS finds out. I would guess if it is that important to them, they will get a court order to make us do it right? Even then I wonder if they have enough to get one anyway. If so, we do it. No different than doing it now or later except that we make them work for it. Aside from that, I can't think of what other step they might take other than another home visit. My home is ready any time of the day if that be the case. We'll see what happens.

A question about the gaurdianship. I read something about it's good for up to 6 months. Does this mean once it is used, the guardians have guardianship for 6 months and then we have to do another one. Or does it mean it's valid for 6 months once I do it and I have to redo one every 6 months, whether it's used or not? Or did I misinterpret it completely?

As for the case 8 years ago. My son was 2 at the time. I was at my mothers home. He took my moms cordless phone and I told him to give it to me. He started running and all we could see is him slip and fall as he went around her couch. My husband was still at work. I called him because even though he had stopped crying, something didn't seem right. I couldn't see anything wrong with him though. My mother looked at him as well and couldn't find anything wrong. I have never broken any bones so I had no experience in that department. There was nothing that showed that was the case. When my husband came (he's broken many bones) he couldn't see anything wrong either. We took him to a 24 hour clinic in town but they didn't have the equipment to x-ray him. We took him to the hospital. We signed in and the wait was over 4 hours they told us. We waited for over an hour, looking at him more and discussing what we should do. We asked some of the hospital personnel. Told them what happened, they gave him a once over and also didn't see anything obvious. We decided to go home and see how he was in the morning. We went to sleep with him. The next morning the leg was slightly swollen. We called another hospital and they said the wait there was pretty short and to come on down. We went and after the x-ray it showed he had broken his femur bone. Well he had to stay in traction for 10 days in the hospital. I slept on a cot in his room and never stepped out of the door for 10 days. I was also 8 months pregnant with my 2nd at the time. Anyway, CPS came while we were in the hospital to investigate. One day when my husband was coming up in the elevator at the hospital he overheard a doctor talking to some nurses about how there was no way the child could have broken his leg the way the parent said. Well, he got off on our floor and later my husband met the man who was my childs doctor. CPS also brought that fact up to my husband when they came a month ago. I was devastated that someone could think that I would do something to my child. I told the truth, and to this day even we can't understand how his leg could have broke the way it did, but it did. If I had thought for a second that telling the truth would have brought that on, I would have lied and told something someone would believe. I told the truth because as bazaar as it was it was the truth and I had nothing to hide. Anyway, as I said before. There was a visit to my mothers home and a visit to ours and the case was closed. Still it bothers me that just because a doctor doesn't think it happened the way it did, I am guilty of child abuse. I mean my son didn't have one mark, one bruise on his leg. Aside from the slight swelling the next morning, you could not tell his leg was broken. Don't they think if I or anyone else did it, there would be some bruising or something? The funny part came a month ago when they showed up again. Like I said, they brought it up to my husband a few times and he wasn't even there when it happened! He was at a safety meeting at work which would have been verified had they called to do so at the time. But back then, all eyes were on me. Funny how they will jump ship to support a different claim now.

Anyway, I know I didn't have to go in to all that but if anything it's just another experience for someone to maybe learn from.

Thanks guys

[Dan Sullivan]

If I had thought for a second that telling the truth would have brought that on, I would have lied and told something someone would believe.

He tried to jump off the roof of the house into the backyard pool and missed!

[Dazeemay]

A question about the gaurdianship. I read something about it's good for up to 6 months. Does this mean once it is used, the guardians have guardianship for 6 months and then we have to do another one. Or does it mean it's valid for 6 months once I do it and I have to redo one every 6 months, whether it's used or not? Or did I misinterpret it completely

You did not misinterpret. I am going to have to go back in and read if some of them say 6months. I believe they did when I first started posting this.

https://www.legaldocs.com/docs/child_1.mv

This is what our daughter used and on hers she put, "This grant of authority is effective as of...date...., and shall remain in effect until terminated by the undersigned parent or guardian.

We did our first one up to six months, but then realized how quickly six months can go by and we forgot so we went this route.

[TGWB]

So last I posted we decided to not call the agency back to schedule the evaulation they wanted my husband to take part in. This was an agency that received a referal from CPS, not CPS themselves.

Today I got a letter in the mail from the lady at the agency. It's a pre-printed type thing where she fills in the blanks with applicable names and dates. Goes like this.

Dear __________

(She's handwritten here, "As you know", then letter begins) This letter is to inform you that you have been referred to the family intervention specialist (FIS) program by ___________. for case management services.

Please call me by 3/22/06 to discuss the services provided by the FIS program and your potential involvement with this program. (She has handwritten after this: "and to set up an evaluation")

I will be notifying your refferal source of this written notification.

I can be reached in my office at ***-***-****. When leaving messages, it will be important for you to leave a phone number where you can be reached.

Thank you for your cooperation.

At the bottom of the letter, she hand writes "Husbands first name- Please call me to set up a time for you to come in. Allow 2 hours. If you don't call by 3/22/06, I will close your case and inform "case workers name" of your discharge. Thank you."

Okay, so what do you think? Should my husband call her and just tell her we don't want to do it. Or, should we write her back or just do nothing and see what happens as she has stated in the letter? Just wondering what others would do and how you would interpret this letter. To date, we have still not heard a thing from CPS since they were here over a month ago. Any advice on how to proceed? Thank alot everyone.

[Dan Sullivan]

case management services... and your potential involvement with this program.

Any advice on how to proceed? Thank alot everyone.

If you've decided not to do the eval just ignore the letter and see what the CPS CW does next.

Best, Dan

[DontBiteMyNose]

This is not legal advice. If I were you, I'd ignore the whole thing. The goons are trying to gently beckon you into the nazi shower - metaphorically speaking, of course.

[Frustrated]

You will notice the word "potential" and "if I don't hear you by *** 06, I will close your case?"

Precisely, just ignore the letter. They are trying to convince you to join their Service Provider which in turn can release Funds to CPS, and thus, they will collect more evidence on your Husband for their "findings" THROUGH this Service Provider.

Get it?

I would SUGGEST you to FIND YOUR OWN Evaluation, get your OWN Doctor to conclude this examination. This way CPS cannot force you into their so called "Service Plan". It is a TRAP. I regret I am stuck in the middle of no where's and they are desperately trying to collect Evidence on me and my hubby through these Service Providers. I agree with Don't bite my nose, keep your mouth shut as much as possible. The more you talk, the more they "collect".

They said "If I don't hear from you, I will "close" your case and the word "potential", this means it is a VOLUNTARY thing, so don't do it, GET YOUR OWN Counsellor or whatever, to protect your interests. I am serious. I got my OWN and it ward them off (BIG TIME!). It got them to stay away from me and my Family, and MY own DOCTOR is watching CPS's every move and my Lawyer is standing in wait. The CPS does not like to retailiate if you have your OWN Defense. I am serious. They are very overzealous and frivilous and loves to attack with these stuff.

If you do nothing, yes, they will go after you, BUT if you get your OWN HELP< they will back off.

[Marina]

Practicing medicine without license

I want to bring up an issue that I haven't seen on this forum. There are laws, regulations, and policies about practicing medicine and psychology. Professionals have to be licensed and listed on the state Occupations and Professions website. The classifications are broken down pretty well, like clinical psychologist, counselor, social worker, etc. There is even a distinction between a common social worker and the supervisor, who is licensed, etc.

A person has to have certain qualifications to make a diagnosis of alcoholism, substance abuse, etc. If an ordinary social worker makes a diagnosis and refers for treatment, then he/she is practicing without a license, etc. Even if you looked up that social worker on the state list and they are licensed, I doubt if a drive-by visit would be considered a bona fide medical evaluation.

In my opinion, that is why they are so anxious for a qualified person to get to you. In their logic, if you don't take a kid to get a medical check-up once a year, then that is medical neglect. If the doctor prescribes antibiotics for pneumonia and you don't give it to the child, then that is medical neglect. They view a shrink evaluation as being just as necesary as having a physical before joining the army. They don't attach any stigma to it at all. They think crazy is normal. And not going for treatment is like not taking antibiotics. If you don't take your medicine, then you don't care.

I posted the Virginia laws on professions and occupations in the VA section.
http://fightcps.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3398

There is an appendix to the VA CPS manual which has an alcohol and drug screening questionaire for cps workers.
http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/divis ... ndix_b.pdf

Also the state report on CPS notes that there is a lot of alcohol abuse perceived in the mind of social workers. This is posted on the VA section also, called an evaluation of the Differential Response System.

Page 8: “The most frequent court-ordered services were counseling,
substance abuse evaluation and treatment, and parent education”.

P. 28 “The data recorded in OASIS do not necessarily provide a complete picture of family needs, but record the conclusions of the worker in each particular case about the family’s need for services.
Even in that respect the data may not be complete.”

http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/divis ... s_2005.pdf

[hls94137]

I am in a very similar situation. I do have a filing in court regarding domestic violence and they have removed my children. I believe based on this my children have a very good chance of being returned to me when we go to court. however they are wanting to also claim drug use which would probably be grounds for keeping my children. they have no evidence though they are pushing for me to get an evaluation, and pushing hard, because they need the evaluation to back their claims. without the evaluation they have nothing. I had an evalutaion set up on my own before this all started but found out the place i was goint to go backed cps. didnt get the evalutation and set the appointement up elsewhere. its scheduled before next court but am debating on getting it. me getting help would only be to their advantage right now. Its so sick they would use my own admissions trying to get help to keep my children. So tell me who has the best interests of my children in mind? Not cps