My case is (I hope) super mild compared to what most people are going through but I don't know where else to turn for advice.
A few months ago, we sought early intervention services for our daughter who had a noticable delay in speech. I thought I was being super proactive because she was only 19 months at the time. Apparently, one of the people at the agency reported me for "Medical Neglect: Failure to get a recommended hearing test." No one at the agency admits to having reported us. This agency did NOT recommend a hearing test. They did evaluate her and find a speech delay but I don't see any mention of concerns in the report about hearing issues. Everyone I spoke to there said that there was no report to CPS. Our original liason was quite hostile because of some of my parenting choices including homeschooling my older daughter.
The original investigator came the day of the report, which was, by the way, over a month after the early intervention evaluation, and said, "I don't even know why I am here." As there was no hearing test recommended and no need for one, there is NO MEDICAL NEGLECT. Medical neglect is when the child's health is threatened and the parent isn't taking any action.
We were told that we HAD to go in for an interview. My reading of the procedure tells me that we can in fact refuse the interview and the case can be closed. We are concerned that they are fishing for further information and that is why they want us to go in. As we feel the original allegations were unfounded and were, in fact, intended to harass, we feel that this case should be closed immediately.
Unfortunately, we have an appointment at 9am Monday so do we not show up and call explaining our reasoning? Do we go with a lawyer and a tape recorder and just say that the questions don't have to do with the allegations? We are supposed to each go in separately. We intend, if we do go, to leave the children at home and go in on separate days so we can review the interview and address any concerns at the 2nd interview.
But I honestly can't see why we should continue to cooperate with their questioning when they could only be fishing for something to pin on us. We have done nothing illegal but we have done things that are not mainstream, such as homeschooling and not having health insurance because we can't afford it. And other things that are wonderful, natural parenting but that I don't think are the business of this mainstream organization.
Need advice - have appointment Monday 9am - should we go?
Moderators: family_man, LindaJM
Do you belong to HLSDA for homeschoolers?
If you do contact them. If you don't for something like $50.00 they would sign you up and work on the financial part later, but you would be protected by their lawyers.
I can only tell you what I would do personally.
I would first off do a guardianship over your children. This is not through the courts and is legal. Here are acouple of links to read.
http://forum.fightcps.com/viewtopic.php?t=1103
http://forum.fightcps.com/viewtopic.php?t=3863
https://www.legaldocs.com/docs/child_1.mv
https://www.legaldocs.com/docs/rev_child1.mv
You can get these done this evening or tomorrow, but the first thing Monday morning get them notarized.
You are exactly right.
You don't owe them anything.
We went with an attorney and our guardianship papers. Plus we took what medical we needed for proof. They never approached us again, but they never told us if the case was closed either until an instance came up in their own office that made them tell us the case was closed even before it got opened.
If you do contact them. If you don't for something like $50.00 they would sign you up and work on the financial part later, but you would be protected by their lawyers.
I can only tell you what I would do personally.
I would first off do a guardianship over your children. This is not through the courts and is legal. Here are acouple of links to read.
http://forum.fightcps.com/viewtopic.php?t=1103
http://forum.fightcps.com/viewtopic.php?t=3863
https://www.legaldocs.com/docs/child_1.mv
https://www.legaldocs.com/docs/rev_child1.mv
You can get these done this evening or tomorrow, but the first thing Monday morning get them notarized.
But I honestly can't see why we should continue to cooperate with their questioning when they could only be fishing for something to pin on us.
You are exactly right.
You don't owe them anything.
We went with an attorney and our guardianship papers. Plus we took what medical we needed for proof. They never approached us again, but they never told us if the case was closed either until an instance came up in their own office that made them tell us the case was closed even before it got opened.
**********************************
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom
To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).
Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour
"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom
To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).
Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour
"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1
Why did you ever agree to an appointment?
Did you let them into your home to inspect?
If that's all they have for medical neglect they are just stupid.
Why didn't they order hearing tests?
Can they prove that the developmental delay is
because of something you did?
Are you homeschooling the other child so they
can pass the standardized tests?
Did you let them into your home to inspect?
If that's all they have for medical neglect they are just stupid.
Why didn't they order hearing tests?
Can they prove that the developmental delay is
because of something you did?
Are you homeschooling the other child so they
can pass the standardized tests?
Greegor wrote:Why did you ever agree to an appointment?
It was the end of the day on Friday and I wasn't thinking too clearly.
Greegor wrote:Did you let them into your home to inspect?
Yes.
Greegor wrote:If that's all they have for medical neglect they are just stupid.
Yes.
Greegor wrote:Why didn't they order hearing tests?
No one has. The investigator told me that they were on my side and since the early intervention agency wasn't getting us the speech therapy we requested, that they, CPIS, would help us out.
Greegor wrote:Can they prove that the developmental delay is
because of something you did?
No and there are no allegations of that. Apparently, they think lack of medical care is putting our children in danger?
Greegor wrote:Are you homeschooling the other child so they
can pass the standardized tests?
Legally/technically, we're not homeschooling. My daughter was below the age of having to do anything but we had already enrolled in an umbrella school. There will be no standardized testing going on here.
Dazeemay wrote:Do you belong to HLSDA for homeschoolers?
If you do contact them. If you don't for something like $50.00 they would sign you up and work on the financial part later, but you would be protected by their lawyers.
I can only tell you what I would do personally.
Thanks for reminding me about HLSDA. I'll research it more thoroughly now and see if it looks applicable.
Dazeemay wrote:I would first off do a guardianship over your children. This is not through the courts and is legal. Here are acouple of links to read.
http://forum.fightcps.com/viewtopic.php?t=1103
http://forum.fightcps.com/viewtopic.php?t=3863
https://www.legaldocs.com/docs/child_1.mv
https://www.legaldocs.com/docs/rev_child1.mv
You can get these done this evening or tomorrow, but the first thing Monday morning get them notarized.
Wow. That all seems WAY out of line with where we are. While I have no intention of having my children set foot in their building, I specifically asked about any risk to lose custody and was assured there was no risk. They said they wanted to speak to me and my husband. They didn't mention whether the kids should come so I wouldn't risk it.
Also, I was told in cases where children are taken away, they go to the relatives first so wouldn't they automatically go to my family?
Dazeemay wrote:We went with an attorney and our guardianship papers. Plus we took what medical we needed for proof. They never approached us again, but they never told us if the case was closed either until an instance came up in their own office that made them tell us the case was closed even before it got opened.
That is good to know. I will be sure and follow up to the end and then see about getting it expunged if I can understand that part. And maybe a counter claim if I can figure THAT out.
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Dan Sullivan
- Posts: 1538
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:42 am
- Location: Long Island, New York
STAY HOME.
There's no case of medical neglect.
You go for the interview CPS will fabricate another allegation to keep the case alive.
If CPS asks why you didn't show up... tell them your attny said not to go.
Tell them to put whatever info they have for you in writing so you can discuss it with your attny and afterwards you'll get back in touch with them.
Do NOT discuss anything further with CPS ... NOT A WORD!
No comments... NOTHING!
Best, Dan
There's no case of medical neglect.
You go for the interview CPS will fabricate another allegation to keep the case alive.
If CPS asks why you didn't show up... tell them your attny said not to go.
Tell them to put whatever info they have for you in writing so you can discuss it with your attny and afterwards you'll get back in touch with them.
Do NOT discuss anything further with CPS ... NOT A WORD!
No comments... NOTHING!
Best, Dan
I am not sure what early intervention 'agency' you went through. With all of my children, I just made an appointment with the school district special ed dept. told them concerns and they did the evaluations. Part of the evaluations that they did was a standard hearing test to see if there was an issue related to speech. SInce they didnt detect anything, there wre no recommendations. Part of the notes that are in the evaluation wil state everything that was done, and everything that they recommend blah blah, Someone made some crap up obviously.
Dont assume that just because its something so simple that it will stay that way. Just protect yourself and be prepared.
Dont assume that just because its something so simple that it will stay that way. Just protect yourself and be prepared.
Also, I was told in cases where children are taken away, they go to the relatives first so wouldn't they automatically go to my family?
By law they are suppose and sometimes they do, but then come against the relatives.
Personally I would do as Dan says. The only reason we went with our lawyer to their office was because of our circumstances.
Never bring your children around them and always carry guardianship papers with you. Parents are surrounded by mandated reporters.
The expunge part is the most difficult. Your name might not be on there, but why take the risk they always do things that are not legal and it is best to know if they put your name on it.
**********************************
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom
To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).
Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour
"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom
To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).
Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour
"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1
Momoffor wrote:I am not sure what early intervention 'agency' you went through. With all of my children, I just made an appointment with the school district special ed dept. told them concerns and they did the evaluations. Part of the evaluations that they did was a standard hearing test to see if there was an issue related to speech. SInce they didnt detect anything, there wre no recommendations. Part of the notes that are in the evaluation wil state everything that was done, and everything that they recommend blah blah, Someone made some crap up obviously.
Dont assume that just because its something so simple that it will stay that way. Just protect yourself and be prepared.
Yes, it was basically through the school system. I specifically requested a hearing test right off the bat and was told that they did not do hearing tests. That was with the agency that referred me. No mention was ever made again of hearing tests.
I'm not assuming anything. That's why I'm obsessively gathering information and advice! Keep it coming!
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Dan Sullivan
- Posts: 1538
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:42 am
- Location: Long Island, New York
Dan Sullivan wrote:STAY HOME.
There's no case of medical neglect.
You go for the interview CPS will fabricate another allegation to keep the case alive.
nice-mama wrote:Wow, Dan. Thank you. This is what we've felt. I love the way you put it. Thank you SO much.
My pleasure.
Nip it in the bud.
Again, ask CPS to send you the info, AND THAT'S IT!!!
CPS hates paperwork, chances are you'll get nothing and they'll close the case.
Best, Dan
Hey,
How 'bout easing up on the big blue letters.
I'm getting a head ache.
How 'bout easing up on the big blue letters.
I'm getting a head ache.
**********************************
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom
To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).
Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour
"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom
To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).
Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour
"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1
-
Dan Sullivan
- Posts: 1538
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:42 am
- Location: Long Island, New York
Here is something else that I just thought of
When my baby was born (when I say baby, he is 7 now) I was told that they did mandatory hearing tests for newborns via brain waves. (for the life of me I cannot remember weather they told me this was mand. for preemies, or just all around mandatory, but you might want to check on that as well, since your child isnt that old).
Usually, when it comes to speech, when they do find a speech issue, they do hearing tests to rule out that is the cause of the speech issue.
Have you taken your child to get hearing tests since?If you have not, I would go ahead and get it done. Not just to appease CPS, but to rule out what is causing the speech delay.
When my baby was born (when I say baby, he is 7 now) I was told that they did mandatory hearing tests for newborns via brain waves. (for the life of me I cannot remember weather they told me this was mand. for preemies, or just all around mandatory, but you might want to check on that as well, since your child isnt that old).
Usually, when it comes to speech, when they do find a speech issue, they do hearing tests to rule out that is the cause of the speech issue.
Have you taken your child to get hearing tests since?If you have not, I would go ahead and get it done. Not just to appease CPS, but to rule out what is causing the speech delay.
Momoffor wrote:Here is something else that I just thought of
When my baby was born (when I say baby, he is 7 now) I was told that they did mandatory hearing tests for newborns via brain waves.
Usually, when it comes to speech, when they do find a speech issue, they do hearing tests to rule out that is the cause of the speech issue.
Have you taken your child to get hearing tests since?If you have not, I would go ahead and get it done. Not just to appease CPS, but to rule out what is causing the speech delay.
This is another red flag for them: we had a homebirth. So this test wasn't done. Of COURSE I have checked my daughter's hearing all along and haven't been kidding myself that she is hearing when she's really deaf. However, someone told us we could probably get a free hearing screening at a nearby maternity center so we're going to make an appointment for that today.
So again, the allegations were of "Medical Neglect, Failure to get a recommended hearing test" or that is how I remember it. No such hearing test was recommended. Homebirth is not illegal and I would think the midwife would be at fault if we'd missed out on some required test. But anyway, I am 100% sure she is hearing. We test her hearing all the time. We whisper commands when her back is turned and she is busy and she understands just fine. A few questions by the early intervention agency could clear this up, not calling CPS.
I wasnt saying that she was deaf or not hearing at all. But to get results back to have in hand in order to say hey dinglberries, her hearing is fine wth are you talking about would be helpful.
Personally, I would also want this test for my own peace of mind.
If I were you, I wouldnt use your whisper test as your defense with cps that her hearing is fine. Thats going to open a whole new can of worms with medical neglect.
She might not be hearing octives or sounds well and the only way to help determine this is to actually get a real test done.
I have hearing loss but that doesnt mean I am deaf. I know someone is telling me something it just comes out mumbled or muffled for certain octives. I have to watch peoples lips to make sure that I am catching everything that is being said correctly.
Use the accusation of no hearing tests being done to your advantage and use it as a tool to help try to deterimne what is causing your daughters speech issues.
I am not sying for you to work with cps, I am saying that it would be wise to get it done, not just to appease the cps cows, but for your daughter.
Personally, I would also want this test for my own peace of mind.
If I were you, I wouldnt use your whisper test as your defense with cps that her hearing is fine. Thats going to open a whole new can of worms with medical neglect.
She might not be hearing octives or sounds well and the only way to help determine this is to actually get a real test done.
I have hearing loss but that doesnt mean I am deaf. I know someone is telling me something it just comes out mumbled or muffled for certain octives. I have to watch peoples lips to make sure that I am catching everything that is being said correctly.
Use the accusation of no hearing tests being done to your advantage and use it as a tool to help try to deterimne what is causing your daughters speech issues.
I am not sying for you to work with cps, I am saying that it would be wise to get it done, not just to appease the cps cows, but for your daughter.
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