Refusing Services

[Charlotte]

Has anyone refused their service plans? The first time I did, the SW was polite about it. With this SW, as I've posted, she threatened me and looked like she wanted to kill me. No joke, she was very mad. Do they retaliate because you refuse, with further investigations? I'm really hoping they will move on because they won't be making money off me. Also the guardianship will help enormously and the letter that I will write her supervisor. It's very scary to refuse them. I found it too hard to stand up to the cops yesterday but next time, if there ever is one, I will not let them in.

[Bob_Lynn]

I never signed any service plan and although I urged my wife not to either, she did because she was coerced and fearful that our children would never be returned to us.

These service plans are supposed be voluntary unless they are mandated by court order. If they're court ordered, they can and should be appealed if you don't agree with them. They are also supposed to be drafted with input from you.

You're under no obligation whatsoever to cooperate with CPS or police or any government agent unless they have a warrant or court order. The 4th Amendment protects your right against such invasion of privacy.

[Dazeemay]

You need to write more than the supervisor because someone above the supervisor has to know what is going on so that the super and sw do not both come at you.

This way you have them both on the spot.

[Dan Sullivan]

Has anyone refused their service plans? The first time I did, the SW was polite about it. With this SW, as I've posted, she threatened me and looked like she wanted to kill me. No joke, she was very mad. Do they retaliate because you refuse, with further investigations? I'm really hoping they will move on because they won't be making money off me. Also the guardianship will help enormously and the letter that I will write her supervisor. It's very scary to refuse them. I found it too hard to stand up to the cops yesterday but next time, if there ever is one, I will not let them in.

What is happening right now in your situation?

Are the services court ordered?

What are the services CPS wants you to do?

Did you sign anything?

Best, Dan

[Frustrated]

Yes, I have declined Services before in the past, and they just keep on coming back making up new Cases...

I have signed a Service Plan only to find out it is just to keep the case open for so long, it has been 9 months...they have done nothing, but sit there, waiting for me to screw up. That's all they wanted.

I got my own Counselling at another Private Agency, not CPS! They backed off and it works.

Don't sign their Services, and get your own help privately.

Just don't give up, keep your strength there, and keep it there until your Kids comes back home...

[mojojojogrl]

I allowed her to come back to the house but not inside.....I did tape the conversation.....she said that all allegations were proven false, but since there was domestic violence in the past that during my evaluation the so called evaluator said i need level 1 treatment....(no she couldnt tell me what level 1 means only outpaitent....funny I never spoke a word about myself for the hour and a half i was with this so called counseler....we talked about how he could lose weight etc.....anyway i said to the invest I will get counseling on my own not through there agency...... she is now moved her focus away from me and now is aiming it my husband.....

[Frustrated]

They always target on the Men, Husbands, Boyfriends, Significant Others...

Because they think the Men are more likely to be the abusers than Women do but ironically, they think that Women/Mothers are Neglecters as well.

It is always one way street to them, they don't care about you or the Husband, all they want is to offer Services, steal, and make Money. It is a job to them and it got to be done. It is a dirty job indeed. Not something I am proud of.

What they need to do now is to respect People's Privacy Rights but they don't. Not what they claim with so called "PROTECTING THE CHILDREN's Interests". If they were protecting them, then why are the Children crying and screaming to be back with the Parents if it was deemed abuse or neglect? Why are they emotional withdrawn, and has problems down the road because it tore the Family up and the only ones that they know in their Child hood? I mean if all of those psch. and emotional welfare on Children were harmful, I would deem that as Abuse on the part of CPS. They don't care what or HOW Children feels. They were ignored constantly in Foster Care, and their silent pleads wanting to go back home were also being ignored.

[Charlotte]

So for those that have gone to see their own psychologist, what did you have to tell CPS? Isn't there Doctor/Patient priveledge? I have an appointment on Monday with a psychologist I chose. What do I have to tell the witch who is calling me with a follow up? Yes, I'm sure legally I can tell her to take a leap but I want her to be done with me. I just hope she feels I'm resolute about not signing up for their service plan.

It was intersting that when my son was outside being interrogated, I spoke with the two cops. I did mention how they have this racket going of services which makes money for them. Then the woman came back in and the first thing she did was try to shove her services down my throught. Both cops gave a surprised look. Yeah I was telling the truth about "services". I told the witch that the reason I was refusing services is because I didn't want to be dealing with them for the rest of my life.

What an ongoing nightmare.

[dasuberding]

I suggest you do tell the caseworker to take a leap or get a lawyer to tell the caseworker to fork off. Make it hard for her to do her job. Worked for us. These people are govt. employees and are extremly lazy. Pencil pushers. Inform her of you and your family's constitutional rights and tell her you think these rights have been violated. Ask her if she has ever been taken to federal court. These scumbags are deathly afraid of federal court. Of course, I am not an attorney. As for the cops, they are clueless.

[Frustrated]

Yes, that's right.

But you got to remember that CPS REQUIRE a Medical Release for you to release ALL of the reports from Psch. Doctors. Do not sign their Medical Release and do not give them such reports.

Just tell her that you have an "appointment" with a Psch. Doctor and the reports are "positive".

Leave it as that....if they wanted to know what are in these reports, tell her to take you to Court and have it court ordered to release Medical Records. Other than that, just tell them to mind their own beeswax.

Right now, I am making it harder on them to find anything on me.

Just remember a regular Private Counsellor or other therapist must tell or report to CPS of any "concerns" of any "abuse or neglect" in the Family, it is the LAW. So are Doctors, BUT anything you tell DOCTORS are priviledged and confidential information and it requires a Medical Release to take a look into your Records.

But also remember, they ALWAYS have OTHER Means to poke into your personal records, they have another way to do it. They are sneaky snakes, and would sneak in and look into your private records, they can CHECK EVERYTHING about you in the Computer Data base...all they have to do is to punch your name, date of birth, social insurance number or social security number, and bingo bango, all the history about you and they check criminal records of sorts, they check welfare history, they check everything.....

E.R. Doctors are opt to give up personal medical release because the child is in their custody, but not when you have the custody of your child, they require a medical release to do so.

Private Doctors, and Licensed Doctors, require a Medical Release but other certain doctors and others can give them all up if CPS forces their hand.

I know all of these, because I have been there, and I had to sign many Medical Release, they said, they cannot touch Psch. Doctors, and Private Doctors, but they can touch Emergency Room Doctors/Medical records, because E.R. Doctors are Mandated reporters, report of all sorts of abuse and neglect happening in E.R. and they are contract doctors so they are paid to report to CPS, but Private Doctors and Licensed Doctors, don't.

It is a tricky one, just got to watch out what you choose a Doctor and to stress the importance to tell all of them to keep your Records CONFIDENTIAL! Including Private Counsellors, Therapists, etc...etc...It would be smart to draft up a Paper work and have them to sign stating they won't release confidential records about you and your Family but they can report if there is any Abuse/Neglect on your part, because it is the LAW to report it. You got to meet half way to make the Judge see that Medical Records are off limits, but there is no proof of abuse or neglect, so you don't have to worry about it.

IT is simple really, Private Medical Records should remain Private and Confidential. Every Citizen's have that privacy rights.

[Dazeemay]

Give this to your physcho eval before your session/s

Simply put, it is wrong for any society to suspend the individual's right of freedom of speech to a psychoanalyst in the interests of social need, whatever it be.

We need go no further than the lawyer-client relation to see this. All criminal lawyers find themselves informed of criminal activity by some of their clients, disclosure of which would save lives, restore injustice, and remedy grave social disruption. Yet the pledge of confidentiality that is part of the structure of the lawyer-client relation is privileged. Not only are lawyers legally exempt from reporting on their clients, if they nonetheless choose to do so, they will have violated their oath, which in turn will have been a violation of their profession, and they will lose their license to practise.

Psychoanalysts (like journalists) should exercise de facto privilege in what will inevitably be a long road toward guaranteed privilege. Psychoanalysis can and should assert the same right of confidentiality held by the legal community in the lawyer-client relationship. The law cannot exist without this privilege. And neither can psychoanalysis.

No psychoanalyst should ever hand over clinical notes to a court of law, or disclose information gained in a session. To do so may well be in compliance with the law of the land, but it is unethical. It betrays the analysand, it destroys psychoanalysis, and finally it fails the long struggle in many countries to provide a place of psychotherapeutic sanctuary for all persons whose mental life causes suffering to self and to others. This space is to the common good of all societies that have worked to create it.

The psychoanalyst is not simply custodian of psychoanalysis. For better or for worse, wished for or not, the psychoanalytical profession is guardian of a social right – the right to speak one's mental life assured that such disclosure will be held in strictest confidence – that will need continuous representation within the dynamic vicissitudes of a free society.

It is time to take a stand.

(Posted to Psyche Matters 2/00)

Christopher Bollas Bibliography page

Return to Papers page

http://psychematters.com/papers/bollas.htm

[Marina]

Worst Case Scenario

Only mention of safety plan in Termination of Parental Rights court cases in Virginia

http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/ ... 156021.txt


"investigator developed a safety plan with mother "

"the DSS investigator visited the home and not finding mother and children there, became concerned that mother had "absconded" with the children. Mother was not under any court order or duty to remain at the home. The DSS investigator immediately filed a petition for an emergency removal order"


" However, at the trial de novo in the trial court, the guardian ad litem recommended to the chancellor that the children be returned to mother. He stated, "I am completely against Social Services at this point as to what's happened, the end result of this case." "In my opinion, they were totally disingenuous from day one." He also stated, "Your Honor, I look at the statute, 283C, 16.1 283C [sic], [m]other has been substantially able to remedy the conditions which caused the children to be put in foster care initially, or
caused them to be removed notwithstanding the efforts of social
services." He continued, "I guess the net result, Judge, is
it's like amputating a finger to get out a splinter. Social
Services, in my opinion, has gone way overboard." He concluded,
"In my opinion, [DSS] will never give these kids back to her."
"Virginia Beach Social Services will never, ever agree this
woman is cooperating in any fashion."
Subsequently, between the children, over a
twenty-four-month period there were eighteen different
placements: E. was placed in nine or ten different foster
homes, C. in two, and I. in five or six. B.B. remained in the
same home throughout.

Evidence in the circuit court hearing included testimony
that mother greatly distrusted the foster care system, having
been placed in foster care as a child. She and others testified
that mother suffered from physical and sexual abuse while in the
system.
At hearing, mother's psychotherapist testified that mother
overcame depression without medication and that when mother had
been given medication (Prozac), it was "very unsuccessful and
probably set her back." In spite of that testimony, and
evidence that mother had an allergic reaction to the medication,
at the end of the hearing, the trial judge said to mother, "if
that doctor prescribes medication and you don't take it, I'll
take these children, and I will put them up for adoption. Do
you understand me?" Subsequently, the trial court order
directed mother to take medication if recommended by her
therapist. The United States Supreme Court in Sell v. United
States, 123 S. Ct. 2174, 2183 (2003) (quoting Riggins v. Nevada,
504 U.S. 127, 134, 135 (1992)), stated that "an individual has a
significant constitutionally protected liberty 'interest in
avoiding the unwanted administration of antipsychotic drugs' --
an interest that only an 'essential' or 'overriding' state
interest might overcome." Whether medication is appropriate is
between a therapist and her patient. A decision by a patient to
avoid taking unwanted medicine is not alone a basis for removal
of children or terminating parental rights...

Mother had an excellent work history prior to entanglement
with DSS.
Mother did, however, make efforts to immunize, get
physical check-ups and enroll the other children in school even
before the children were removed from her custody. When E. was
restored to her custody, mother took a keen interest in the
child's school assignments.

[Marina]

Releasing Psych Evaluation to social services

I have seen a case, in the court cases on Termination of Parental Rights in VA, where social services claimed the mother wouldn't sign a release for them to see her Psych Evaluation records. The mother claimed she signed a release. The allegation that she wouldn't sign it was used against her at the Termination hearing.

Also, not cooperating is used against people at TPR hearings.

Acknowledging things is used against you.
Refusing to acknowledge things is used against you.
Not cooperating is used against you.

This Double Bind psychologicaly abusive tactic is used over and over and over again as shown in TPR cases. Just pick any state and find their collection of cases online, and you won't have to read for very long before you have a list of 10 examples.

[Dazeemay]

I have seen a case, in the court cases on Termination of Parental Rights in VA, where social services claimed the mother wouldn't sign a release for them to see her Psych Evaluation records. The mother claimed she signed a release. The allegation that she wouldn't sign it was used against her at the Termination hearing.

That is why you document everything.

If you do their services demand a copy if they won't give a copy then you don't sign it. And make a document then and there that the cw would not give you a copy. Make her sign your document if you can. Otherwise if the law allows you can put a tape recorder in your purse and record it all.

[Bob_Lynn]

if the law allows you can put a tape recorder in your purse and record it all.

If the law in your state says you need to notify the other party that you're recording a conversation, there's no reason why you can't notify the other party you're recording the conversation for your protection. There is also no reason you can't tell the other party that you refuse to engage in a conversation with that party unless you can record it, to protect your interest.

[Dazeemay]

Thanks for clarifying this Bob.

[Railroaded]

I am refusing a service plan that I received yesterday. The whole case is a pack of lies that damaged my health from fear! After 17 months in court and another 9 months of running around with my 17 year old daughter to hospitals, doctors clinics therapiest and labs for urine tests. They found my daughter has depression and possible ADDH. There was spite with the first worker that would call the house 2-3 times a day, saying I'm scared for your daughter. She lied in court records, documents to my daughters school. Every time the service plan came out it showed that I have not completed any of the therapy, family therapy, parent classes. It states that I am mental and that I need medication!!! I have the MONO virus that causes depression. No mention of my daughters mental illness, she still looks like the victim went she and her friends are nothing but liars! The first case that was unfounded was called in by my duaghters school because she lied to get us in trouble. The second case that had a call to 911 was called in by a unknown person. We were taken to court because I would not let the caseworkers (3) in the house again! The latest service plan is a month after the Judge closed out the case. We have completed all their orders of therapy and classes. Yet the caseworkers has noted that it has not been completed. Our lawyer can not help because it was closed out! The whole document is laced with Lies! If my daughter ever had a bruse it was from playing softball in games and getting hit with the ball. This can all be proven. I had a witness that was willing to make a statement he is a Police Detective. DHS (CPS) would not talk to him! As it stands now I may never work with this false DX on the court records and DHS documents. It can also hurt with getting housing. Oh we also paid over a thousand for a lawyer that quit, and another thousand or so on doctor visits and I can do anymore and told the Judge I can't afford this. Running around for the two years has ruined my spine and tore up my tendons in my foot (2 hours on a bus and 1 hour in a clinic 2 -3 times a week). Also the depression and high blood pressure is from the fear and harassment of this WitchHunt case! Another thing not only have they ruined my life with slurs and lies they created a monster of my daughter. She thinks she can do anything she wants and curse at me and threaten my other daughter and has no interest in working part time! In a half of a year she will be 18 and then she will live off of who?? The state welfare that is running this DHS machine?

Has anyone refused their service plans? The first time I did, the SW was polite about it. With this SW, as I've posted, she threatened me and looked like she wanted to kill me. No joke, she was very mad. Do they retaliate because you refuse, with further investigations? I'm really hoping they will move on because they won't be making money off me. Also the guardianship will help enormously and the letter that I will write her supervisor. It's very scary to refuse them. I found it too hard to stand up to the cops yesterday but next time, if there ever is one, I will not let them in.

[Frustrated]

Railroaded: I know how you feel, it is frustrating indeed. I have the similar problem with 18 yrs old Step son...he is always in trouble with the Law. So you just do what you gotta do, got to tell them time to move out, and pack your suitcase, and live on your own. I know this will be the hardest decision you have to make, but it will be better for your Health once she moves out. She will learn valuable lesson living on her own, and it will be hard on her but she will wake up and smell the coffee for what she've done to you. She will learn.

I have these same problem for Years, and I said, that's it, I have had taken the high road to support for Years, so it is time to take a "shove it" and learn on your own. This decision would be the best for everyone involved. It would be best not to get involved with the person that is causing nothing but pain. I know you LOVE your Daughter, but like they say, Love hurts and also Truth Hurts. And eventually they will learn the valuable lesson.

I can relate to your story, I told my Step son, I will not be involved in his problems, but I can only support and BE THERE, that is all I can do. That's it. Do you know what he said? He said I am the Best Cool Mother ever, and he is not even my Son. He said that I cared about him enough to teach him a lesson. I had about three Years to deal with him, and had to go and get him and bring him back home, and so forth, but to understand how he felt at the same time, we TALKED. His Real Mother just abandoned him with me and his Dad, just left him here and she moved about 2 or 3 hours away and did not want anything to do with him. He was 15 when his real mother left him with us. I guess she had problems with him just like we had problems with him. But there is one thing that he needed was just Understanding and Communication and Support. All he needs was a Guidance, Bonding and Stern Consquences and learn from them.

That's it, I do feel for your Pain, Me too, I have Depression from all of this crap from CPS and it is nerve wracking and stressful enough to be involved, but not only them, but the Family as Whole. It does seperate the Family because that is what CPS does best......Tearing up Families instead of uniting them.

[Dazeemay]

Marina said it best I believe,

Acknowledging things is used against you.
Refusing to acknowledge things is used against you.
Not cooperating is used against you.

This Double Bind psychologicaly abusive tactic is used over and over and over again

[Frustrated]

That is true....

That is why I talk less to them...I don't give them much ammunition they need to use against me and my Family.

The less you talk, but (still) co-operate, the more they don't have anything on you.

Being aggressive on your own, and be on top of everything helps too.

[Railroaded]

You are so Right! Back three years ago my grandsons came back from their fathers place with black and blue marks up and down their neck and back. One that was 3yrs old had marks at the ribs, the 5yr old had marks at the neck, back and shoulder. They said they "fell down the steps". They were told to say that by their father! (this same statement appears on our DHS investigation of my husband for our daughter 17yr)

My oldest daughter and I called DHS "CPS" in PA. A worker came out after a week took pictures and left. I was told by a neighbor that is a police officer to call SVU. I did and they were going to investigate it. DHS worker called SVU and told them that they would investigate the matter. After 7 months a letter came in and said case "Unfounded".

The girlfriend of their fathers that beat the boys with a hockey stick said she didn't do it and would not open the door for months then wouldn't let DHS in. They dropped the case and told us to let the boys visit their father as court ordered. Since he was not paying support for years to date, we didn't let them go to visit. Supprise that the father after the 5 years that went by is seeing the boys when they want to go there. He now has a problem with my 17yr old daughter the same one that has the DHS case.

We never did find out who called in the crank 911 call and DHS call. No one investigated the caller and I can prove with a store receipt that we were not home and were shopping. When the court documents came in it has the 911 call four days from the real date from what the police report states.

I remember my grandsons doctor saying Don't call DHS (even with the marks and the ordered X-rays) He said they ruin lives and break up families! Yes mine!!

<<<<
That's it, I do feel for your Pain, Me too, I have Depression from all of this crap from CPS and it is nerve wracking and stressful enough to be involved, but not only them, but the Family as Whole. It does seperate the Family because that is what CPS does best......Tearing up Families instead of uniting them>>>