Unconstitutional Interviews

[dasuberding]

This also applies to the illegal interviews done at public school without the parents knowledge. Question: How is a child in "imminent physical danger" when the child is at school?

IT’S UNCONSTITUTIONAL FOR DCF TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION IN ANY HOME AND INTERVIEW A CHILD WITHOUT EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES (IMMINENT “PHYSICAL” DANGER) OR PROBABLE CAUSE.



The decision in the case of Doe et al, v. Heck et al (No. 01-3648, 2003 US App. Lexis 7144) will affect the manner in which law enforcement and Child Protective Services (“CPS”) investigations of alleged child abuse or neglect are conducted. The decision of the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals found that the practice of a “no prior consent” interview of a child will ordinarily constitute a “clear violation” of the constitutional rights of parents under the 4th and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution. According to the Court, the investigative interview of a child constitutes a “search and seizure” and, when conducted on private property without “consent, a warrant, probable cause, or exigent circumstances,” such an interview is an unreasonable search and seizure in violation of the rights of the parent, child, and, possibly the owner of the private property.



The mere possibility or risk of harm does not constitute an emergency or exigent circumstance that would justify a forced warrantless entry and a warrantless seizure of a child. Hurlman v. Rice, (2nd Cir. 1991)



A due-process violation occurs when a state-required breakup of a natural family is founded solely on a “best interests” analysis that is not supported by the requisite proof of parental unfitness. Quilloin v. Walcott, 434 U.S. 246, 255, (1978)

[Dazeemay]

Do you have the link for this?

[Frustrated]

I know it is illegal, but CPS does it anyways claiming they are "protecting" these Children for their sake.

They are overstepping boundaries and it is not right and they do these illegal acts on Families EVERY DAY for almost 30 years.

[Greegor]

Interesting caselaw!

[good dad]

According to the Court, the investigative interview of a child constitutes a “search and seizure” and, when conducted on private property without “consent,

school is public property

[makaylajayncharlie]

yes school is a public place and this is how cps get away with it

or they do come on to your propety without a warrant or any good cause and make up the accusations as they go by!

i had this happen to me removed my children and never released any inforamtion to me in the intinal first meeting! and it wasnt till later on they gave bits peices...... they didnt even have a warrant to remove my children, two jab police came and removed them at approx 9.30am then at 1.30 pm they had a court hearing to remove children and stamped so they took them without good cause and wasnt done right at all infact the whole think was shonks

[Greegor]

Makayla:
Most of us Yanks would be totally amazed at
how similar your Aussie child protection system
is to ours. I noticed just days ago that
the Structured Decision Making risk
assessment tool is being used by several
eastern provinces/states in Australia and
is spreading.

The SDM stuff is notorious for the abuse it
represents when it's used by people who
are unqualified or are using it just to justify
FUNDING for services.

When a caseworker uses the SDM "idiot sheet"
to assess risk early on, partly to decide
guilt or prove guilt to court it is being
misused. That is very common however.

They used to have a disclaimer that
SDM is not to be used for decision making,
even though that is exactle what the
initials mean. Don't be surprised if they
rename this piece of garbage.

Take care!
Greg in Iowa

[makaylajayncharlie]

hey greg,

yes me and husband was talking about that last night how we was thinking that we all using the same handbook all these accusations they use against us and they get away with it its surreal but thing over here in aus even if you have a good case lawyers and soclictors wont fight them , they wont even help you like my very first lawyer i had he aggreed with cps here in aus,and even said hand over the children you wants whats best dont you... and this way you will get them back quicker its a load of crock ibtw he was a funded legal iade solictor, and we have talked to normal lawyers non funded by legal aide still they wont help one wants between 1000 & 2000 to read documents and i have never been involved in the department ever before now and boy doesnt it open our eyes.
we have them home now if you go in to australia you see my post we have them hope after along awaited 2 years but no thanks to help but the help of ourselves, and lifeline there still under order with docs so we have to play nice till then

ok i rambeled enough
take care
stacey

[dasuberding]

I downloaded the risk assesment paperwork for CA and found it based on a point system. I then filled it out as as non-biased person who had actually done an investigation and found that if anybody in CA has children, your children are at risk of CPS intervention. This paperwork was never done by the moron who took my child. We did a records request and it's nowhere to be seen. As for the assesment that I did on ourselves, we fell into the low risk bracket. There is no "no risk". Just low, medium, high, and very high. According to the CA risk assesment, if you are a parent in CA, your child is at risk of abuse no matter what. Basically, if you have kids, you are abusing them or will abuse them. Minority Report crap.

[Bob_Lynn]

I then filled it out as as non-biased person who had actually done an investigation and found that if anybody in CA has children, your children are at risk of CPS intervention.

...

As for the assesment that I did on ourselves, we fell into the low risk bracket.

So if you were a biased CPS investigator who filled out the same risk assessment document, what risk bracket do you think would you'd end up in?

[dasuberding]

"So if you were a biased CPS investigator who filled out the same risk assessment document, what risk bracket do you think would you'd end up in?"

I don't know. There isn't any "no risk at all" but according to the assessment, and according to the federal risk assessment chart, our son should of never been taken at all. In our case, there was no investigation done so they pretty much had to pull stuff out of their arses.

[Bob_Lynn]

It was really meant to be a tongue-in-cheek question, a biased CPS investigator is always going to put parents in any risk category that would victimize that family, and I would say most are biased.

[Greegor]

Parents Rights advocates have a scanned in and
filled out copy of the SDM Risk Assessment "idiot sheet"
for Michigan, and one or two others.

Upon examination and walking through it it was
learned that a single Mom living in the country
with two kids was considered high risk
or possibly GUILTY before CPS even showed
up at the door.

Living in the country (ISOLATION!) ? Points against you
Raise and slaughter farm animals? Points
Hunt? Points
Two or more kids? Points

I suspect that states that do use these
would very much like to HIDE them and
not let parents see them as used.
I suspect that the Michigan one got out due to a mistake.

Can you imagine how EMBARASSING
these "idiot sheets" would be for the agencies
if they were reproduced and handed
out to show how the agencies SCORE parents?

Iowa tried to make a law that if a Mom
moved in with a boyfriend/fiance' the
agency wanted power to immediately remove
kids because unrelated males are statistically
a risk. They wanted to treat a single live in
situation as if it was rampant promiscuity!
With media coverage and the huge number
of "blended families" there was quite a PR uproar.

The final straw was when it was pointed out
that in FOSTER care, BOTH carers are non-related,
and therefore DOUBLY dangerous based on stats,
the thing was dropped like a hot potato.

Don't you think this Structured Decision Making
Risk Assessment tool "idiot sheet" would
open the eyes of the public?

Just go around asking people how many
of the factors would mark THEM and
point out that the CPS agency actually USES
the "idiot sheet" for that purpose.

dasuberdling: Could you please make the blank form
for California public? Either or both typed in or
scanned in would be useful evidence for the above
stated reasons!

Built into most of these forms is an
item that allows the caseworker to
completely defeat the supposedly
objective results. I don't remember the
title or question but there was one that
could be adjusted EITHER WAY to allow
entry of completely subjective scoring to
overrule the objective part of the scoring.

In other words, they could skew the
score favorably for an allie or one of their own
and unfavorably for someone who
intensely dislikes their agency, etc.

This aspect is particularly funny since it
short circuits the entire purpose of the
""objective"" scoring!

I telephoned the WISCONSIN non profit that created
one "risk assessment" instrument last week!

The creators of course wash their hands
by asserting the risk assessment is 25 years old
and should be used by well trained people.

I responded that in the last 25 years,
child protection has been an unmitigated
disaster so claims that this is old do not
impress me.

I also joked that child protection caseworkers
are not exactly part of the intelligencia so
comments about "well trained people" are funny.

I pointed out that the legal disclaimers will
not afford much protection when it is revealed
that caseworkers DO in fact use the risk
assessment "instrument" to decide guilt or innocence.

I pointed out that the phrase "AT RISK OF"
is a huge moneymaker IN COURT for the agencies
and so OF COURSE a "risk assessment tool" is
an integral part of their campaign for FUNDING.

[dasuberding]

Ok, I will try to scan the risk assessment sheets. How do I submit a scan to the site?

[Greegor]

Linda would have to arrange that I think.
I'd love it if you'd e-mail me a copy though!
[email protected]

[ericb]

I second that request.

[dasuberding]

Ok, ok...I'm working on it. It will be a condensed version. 20 pages of check lists and charts. Waiting to hear back from Linda on who and how I submit.

[Dazeemay]

Scan them to your email.

Send youself the email.

Copy paste them into a post.

[Greegor]

20 pages wow! What state?

[dasuberding]

20 pages of forms and charts that I have scanned, 92 pages total. The state is CA but I have recently discovered that they use the same manual in some other states.
As for scanning, pasting, and transfering via email, this won't work unless you want a bunch unreadable garbage. People are going to want to see these diagrams and check the box forms for themselves to do as unbiased third party. The way it's supposed to be done.
Pretty scary stuff. According to this manual, every family is at risk of CPS involvement, every family is guilty, every family needs help! The state knows better than we do on how to raise our children.
I posted a link to two sites that lead to the pdf. manual in it's entirety. Posted under Announcements-CA RISK ASSESSMENT MANUAL

[ericb]

I just got done reading through this manual and it scared me to death. You're right, according to CA, EVERY family in the state needs some sort of "assistance" from Social Services. I too took the risk assesment tool. I scored a "1" on Risk and a "2" on abuse. You were right, you really can't score a zero, the questions are to skewed and weighted in their favor. What I found most appalling though, was the "Discretionary Override", whereas a social worker has the right to override a conclusion, based on their own test, of a "Low Risk" family, and are then ordered to label the family "Moderate" or worse. Jesus H., we need to get our s**t together and organize against this atrocity.

[Dazeemay]

I think without even taking it, it is a given that every family is at risk.

Just think about all of the laws we don't know about as a nation. If they wanted too every person in the US would be on trial for something or other.

Federal law forbids recycling used eyeglasses in the United States(wonder if we can sue all of the charities that want to recycle eyeglasses)

http://www.mindlesscrap.com/trivia/laws.htm

[hls94137]

In my paperwork that i got from my attorney there is something called the "initial assessment worksheet for abuse/neglect". Is this what you are talking about? When cps first started knocking on my door and contacting me i refused to allow her into my home. i refused to sign anything, basically i just did not cooperate and insisted until such time that they obtained a warrant this is how it would be. so all through my assessment she rated me 4.0 or high. Then in the reasoning sentence it states "Worker rated this element high due to _____ being unwilling to meet with this worker and this worker not being able to fully assess the situation" It outrages me to think that because i excercized my rights, stood up for not only what i believe in but what is suppose to be granted to every american, that my children were catagorized to be in a high risk situation and/or neglected and abused. Never have I harmed or hurt my children, i have not been charged with any crime in criminal court. Reality is my children were happy healthy loved and well taken care of and now they are scared and confused.

[dasuberding]

"In my paperwork that i got from my attorney there is something called the "initial assessment worksheet for abuse/neglect". Is this what you are talking about?"

Yes, the same thing. Go to the CA topic and CA Risk Assessment Manual. There, I posted two links to the manual and I also found out that this same manual is used by other states.

"i refused to sign anything, basically i just did not cooperate and insisted until such time that they obtained a warrant"

According to the manual, you would score as a high risk, just for not cooperating with the friendly, non-biased sociopath.

"Reality is my children were happy healthy loved and well taken care of and now they are scared and confused."

As you probably know by now, CPS goons do not live in reality. The live in the land of OZ where wrong is right, up is down, families are money and they try to force their perverted views of reality onto the unsuspecting public through the unconstitutional juvenile court system. They could care less about your children. To them, your family are just numbers and dollar signs. Remember, your dealing with bureaucrats, pencil pushers, who believe the rights of the state outweigh the rights of the individual.