they took my daughter from school, 5 days later we had court where they ordered her to stay in protective custody
my papers states they have 21 working days to determine whether to file a formal petition or show cause why this matter should not be dismissed
my sw and cw say the court date i have in july is just for us to plead quilty or innocent if we plead not guilty (duh) they have to do a fact finding to try to prove this happened they have also said something about a dispositional hearing about 1 to 2 months after july court date to terminate my parental rights they have me so confused on what is or is not going on
what kind of time frame am i really looking at does anyone know my state is indiana
can someone please explain the process to me
Moderators: family_man, LindaJM
can someone please explain the process to me
fighting for my family
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lostintranslation
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I forgot...how long has your child been in foster care?
A dispositional hearing to terminate your parental rights? That is ridiculous. Usually at those hearings, the judge will either allow commitment of the child in question to CPS's care or return the child to the biological parent. If the child is committed, the commitment lasts for about 6 months then another hearing. If the child has been returned home while committed, you will have protective supervision for about 6-12 months. If the child has not been returned, CPS bears the full responsibility of showing just cause of why the child hasn't been returned. If they are able to show just cause, the case will be continued for another 6 months. If after 12-15 months, the child hasn't been returned, that is when they start seeking a TPR. TPRs and adoptions are always the concurrent plan where reunification is the primary goal. CPS has to have a concurrent plan so children aren't stuck in the system for too long.
I would definitely look your state's statutes and procedural manuals up to see exactly what it is for your state. But having a TPR hearing so early isn't right nor legal.
ETA: I think what you are talking about happening 1-2 months after the hearing in July would be the adjudication hearing. This is where you either plead guilty, not guilty or nolle contendre. If you plead guilty, your case will take forever and more and more services will be added. They can also use that against you and go for an earlier TPR. If you plead not guilty, it is taken to trial and CPS has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the charges against you are accurate. If you plead nolle contendre, you don't admit guilt or innocence but recognize that CPS has enough evidence against you to have a strong case to finding you guilty. I know of alot of people that go with the nolle contendre route so the case moves along quicker and reunification might be quicker. I know others that this has backfired on.
Also at the adjudication hearing, this is where they can file for committment of the children. What this is is that CPS has legal physical custody of the child. You will no longer be advised of medical procedures or anything else about your child while the committment stands (unless the child is returned to you while committed which is another kettle of fish within itself). I think that is where you may have gotten confused with your parental rights being terminated; not sure though. You still retain parentship but CPS is acting like the legal guardian of the children.
A dispositional hearing to terminate your parental rights? That is ridiculous. Usually at those hearings, the judge will either allow commitment of the child in question to CPS's care or return the child to the biological parent. If the child is committed, the commitment lasts for about 6 months then another hearing. If the child has been returned home while committed, you will have protective supervision for about 6-12 months. If the child has not been returned, CPS bears the full responsibility of showing just cause of why the child hasn't been returned. If they are able to show just cause, the case will be continued for another 6 months. If after 12-15 months, the child hasn't been returned, that is when they start seeking a TPR. TPRs and adoptions are always the concurrent plan where reunification is the primary goal. CPS has to have a concurrent plan so children aren't stuck in the system for too long.
I would definitely look your state's statutes and procedural manuals up to see exactly what it is for your state. But having a TPR hearing so early isn't right nor legal.
ETA: I think what you are talking about happening 1-2 months after the hearing in July would be the adjudication hearing. This is where you either plead guilty, not guilty or nolle contendre. If you plead guilty, your case will take forever and more and more services will be added. They can also use that against you and go for an earlier TPR. If you plead not guilty, it is taken to trial and CPS has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the charges against you are accurate. If you plead nolle contendre, you don't admit guilt or innocence but recognize that CPS has enough evidence against you to have a strong case to finding you guilty. I know of alot of people that go with the nolle contendre route so the case moves along quicker and reunification might be quicker. I know others that this has backfired on.
Also at the adjudication hearing, this is where they can file for committment of the children. What this is is that CPS has legal physical custody of the child. You will no longer be advised of medical procedures or anything else about your child while the committment stands (unless the child is returned to you while committed which is another kettle of fish within itself). I think that is where you may have gotten confused with your parental rights being terminated; not sure though. You still retain parentship but CPS is acting like the legal guardian of the children.
Hell hath no fury like a parent scorn
shes been at my sisters for 7 weeks now
sw told me that the dispositional hearing should take place in aug or sept
i dont understand it either
but the last time she was here with the cw they told me after the july hearing we will of course plead not guilty and then they will be giving time for fact finding to prove their case, what they have been doing since may i dont know they should have been fact finding during this time
so i dont know which hearing will be first the one with the fact finding info or the dispositional hearing
you would think they have to prove guilt or innocense before they take all of my rights away
sw told me that the dispositional hearing should take place in aug or sept
i dont understand it either
but the last time she was here with the cw they told me after the july hearing we will of course plead not guilty and then they will be giving time for fact finding to prove their case, what they have been doing since may i dont know they should have been fact finding during this time
so i dont know which hearing will be first the one with the fact finding info or the dispositional hearing
you would think they have to prove guilt or innocense before they take all of my rights away
fighting for my family
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Frustrated
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I believe the time line length is how it is proceeded...in most States, Correct me if I am wrong...
1. CPS removed Children from School, they require a Court Order to remove the Children from the School. (if they don't have Court Order stating that these Children are in imminent danger of Harm or Abuse...etc...it should be stated in Court Order). You should go to Court and find out if there was a copy of warrant to remove your Children.
2. You were supposed to have 72 hours Hearing after the removal of your Children. Most cases have 72 hours Hearings.
3. Most TPR takes place between 6 months to 2 Years....
4. Adoptions takes place after the TPR, after 6 months to 2 years.
5. Service Plan can be immediately to 6 months and it must be completed. Same goes for Renuification Plan, can be included in the Service Plan to return the Kids back home but the Parent must complete ALL of the Services before the return of the Children.
So....looks like your Case is too fast between these time line...and CPS are up to something.
READ your CPS MANUAL in your STATE stating the time line for such requirement like Hearings...etc....etc....You would be surprised that they were supposed to follow these procedures, but most CPS DO NOT. Remind the CPS that they violated the Rules, and you can quote the clause from CPS Manual in the Letter...."YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GIVE 72 Hours Hearing, quote the clause and page number from their CPS Manual..." and put all the clauses in it and send a letter return reciept and certified mail to your CPS Worker, but CC. to her Supervisor, Director of CPS....Surely you KNOW that THEY BROKE RULES/PROCEDURES...remind them again of that FACT. Use the CPS Manual AGAINST THEM. You got to strike back at them.
I think they are working too fast for everything that violates the rules and protocol...they assume that you are not knowledgeable about the rules and the Law. It seems they are very anxious to TPR you out and adopt these Children quickly before you can notice that there is something wrong with the events leading up to your removal of your Children.
1. CPS removed Children from School, they require a Court Order to remove the Children from the School. (if they don't have Court Order stating that these Children are in imminent danger of Harm or Abuse...etc...it should be stated in Court Order). You should go to Court and find out if there was a copy of warrant to remove your Children.
2. You were supposed to have 72 hours Hearing after the removal of your Children. Most cases have 72 hours Hearings.
3. Most TPR takes place between 6 months to 2 Years....
4. Adoptions takes place after the TPR, after 6 months to 2 years.
5. Service Plan can be immediately to 6 months and it must be completed. Same goes for Renuification Plan, can be included in the Service Plan to return the Kids back home but the Parent must complete ALL of the Services before the return of the Children.
So....looks like your Case is too fast between these time line...and CPS are up to something.
READ your CPS MANUAL in your STATE stating the time line for such requirement like Hearings...etc....etc....You would be surprised that they were supposed to follow these procedures, but most CPS DO NOT. Remind the CPS that they violated the Rules, and you can quote the clause from CPS Manual in the Letter...."YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GIVE 72 Hours Hearing, quote the clause and page number from their CPS Manual..." and put all the clauses in it and send a letter return reciept and certified mail to your CPS Worker, but CC. to her Supervisor, Director of CPS....Surely you KNOW that THEY BROKE RULES/PROCEDURES...remind them again of that FACT. Use the CPS Manual AGAINST THEM. You got to strike back at them.
I think they are working too fast for everything that violates the rules and protocol...they assume that you are not knowledgeable about the rules and the Law. It seems they are very anxious to TPR you out and adopt these Children quickly before you can notice that there is something wrong with the events leading up to your removal of your Children.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22
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lostintranslation
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It's not a prove of guilt or innocence in regards to TPR. The case has to be very long going or extremely severe like a murder of another child. Most courts won't even consider a TPR until at least 12 months have gone by. Most states, it's 15 months. Maybe you are confusing a total TPR with committment? With a total TPR, you lose your children forever. They are free for adoption once the TPR happens. The committment just takes your legal responsibility away like making decisions for your child's care and stuff like that. A committment is usually short term--anywhere between 3-12 months with 6 months being the average. Children can be and often are returned while committed.
Hell hath no fury like a parent scorn
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lostintranslation
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Ok, during the fact finding phase, they will be preparing to go to trial. They have the burden of proof just like in a criminal proceeding. Trials can take a very long time. During the fact finding process, get all YOUR witnesses and evidence together proving that the allegations are false and that you are a fit parent. This might be a good time to go to your own independently found parenting classes. Don't go to ones funded by CPS. You may also want to look into therapy with a therapist you find on your own. That way, you can have a psychiatric point of view on your side. Get all your character witnesses prepared for a trial. These people testify to the fact that they have always seen you as a strong, supportive loving parent. See if there is a private agency in your area that offers reunification services. This is the time to start to be aggressively proactive. This is the time where the jello wrestling with CPS ends and the real boxing match begins. Be ready to draw blood on the bastards; they are sure going to try to on you.
Hell hath no fury like a parent scorn
they took her on a thursday and had a hearing on tuesday so i guess if you go by court time they exclude weekend hours they will say i received my 72 hour hearing
law states if they fear for the safety of the child they can remove her from school without court order and that is exactly what they did with police there and all
i do believe it is a committed hearing
it is driving me crazy because i know the cw investagator, the on going case worker and my social worker all know these were false accusations but none of them are willing to say it, our ongoing cw just kept telling us she can see why we have a lawyer between the mistakes with all the imformation to the lies the investagator has told us on how things were suppose to happen
cw invest told me, my daughter and my sister the first day that if did everything we were supppose to do she would be home in three months now the way they talk it might be more like a year and trust me we are doing everything the judge ordered us to do but they are not
law states if they fear for the safety of the child they can remove her from school without court order and that is exactly what they did with police there and all
i do believe it is a committed hearing
it is driving me crazy because i know the cw investagator, the on going case worker and my social worker all know these were false accusations but none of them are willing to say it, our ongoing cw just kept telling us she can see why we have a lawyer between the mistakes with all the imformation to the lies the investagator has told us on how things were suppose to happen
cw invest told me, my daughter and my sister the first day that if did everything we were supppose to do she would be home in three months now the way they talk it might be more like a year and trust me we are doing everything the judge ordered us to do but they are not
fighting for my family
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lostintranslation
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If the reunification doesn't happen by your hearing in July, you are looking at anywhere between 3-12 months for reunification. If the child in question is indeed committed in July, there will be a service plan ordered by the court that, unfortunately, needs to be completed in order for reunification to be considered. The court ordered service plan will be the same as the one CPS tried to get you to sign. IF there is a court ordered service plan, I would follow it. If there are services on the plan that don't apply to you, speak to your lawyer about it. However, if you don't follow the court ordered plan, you can be listed as non-compliant which in CPS' eyes and the eyes of the court is a huge negative and you can be criminally charged with contempt of court.
You have a long road ahead if your child gets committed. However, you will not be traveling it alone. You will always have us to talk to, vent to and anything else. We will be there with you.
You have a long road ahead if your child gets committed. However, you will not be traveling it alone. You will always have us to talk to, vent to and anything else. We will be there with you.
Hell hath no fury like a parent scorn
i am hoping they have not lied to me again they say we should start family counseling please correct me if im wrong but doesnt that me we are working it out and she should be coming home sooner than later
i am hoping they place her back home while they are wasteing time fact finding
you figure our court hearing is at the end of july and they will have to do their fact finding so i figure at their pace we wont go back to court for that until sometime in sept that gives us part of jul, all of aug and part of sept or more to work it out in counseling
please tell me if im wrong i always get my hopes up that i am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel and they do or say something to slap me back down
i am hoping they place her back home while they are wasteing time fact finding
you figure our court hearing is at the end of july and they will have to do their fact finding so i figure at their pace we wont go back to court for that until sometime in sept that gives us part of jul, all of aug and part of sept or more to work it out in counseling
please tell me if im wrong i always get my hopes up that i am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel and they do or say something to slap me back down
fighting for my family
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lostintranslation
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Is the family counseling to also involve your daughter or just you and your spouse? If your daughter is to be involved in the sessions, you have to find out who is responsible for getting her there. There is nothing wrong with family counseling just be sure to find one on your own and not one that is in the clutches of CPS.
They won't return your daughter during their fact finding mission. If your daughter isn't returned to you at that hearing in July and is committed, as I said, you have a few months ahead of services and intrusion. Ask your CW if there are any independent agencies in your area that handles reunifcation services. If there is, ask her to refer your case to them. Reunification usually goes much quicker and smoother when another private agency is involved.
During the fact finding mission they will be on, be prepared because they will do anything and everything they can to prove their case. They hate to be wrong. What is your visitation with your daughter? Is it supervised? Unsupervised? If supervised, by whom? Are the visits in an agency or out in public?
They won't return your daughter during their fact finding mission. If your daughter isn't returned to you at that hearing in July and is committed, as I said, you have a few months ahead of services and intrusion. Ask your CW if there are any independent agencies in your area that handles reunifcation services. If there is, ask her to refer your case to them. Reunification usually goes much quicker and smoother when another private agency is involved.
During the fact finding mission they will be on, be prepared because they will do anything and everything they can to prove their case. They hate to be wrong. What is your visitation with your daughter? Is it supervised? Unsupervised? If supervised, by whom? Are the visits in an agency or out in public?
Hell hath no fury like a parent scorn
my daughter is the one we are waiting for she has told me she wants to start counseling they tell she has told them she does not
this is suppose to be a outside agency but they work very closely with cps
they say we are working towards reunifaction they seemed really nice and seemed to really want to help so i just hope that is true i cant imagine going another 3 months or more without my daughter home i have made her my whole world
my visit are unsupervised at my sisters where she is right now
i still haave to ask permission to pick her up and take her anywhere
this is suppose to be a outside agency but they work very closely with cps
they say we are working towards reunifaction they seemed really nice and seemed to really want to help so i just hope that is true i cant imagine going another 3 months or more without my daughter home i have made her my whole world
my visit are unsupervised at my sisters where she is right now
i still haave to ask permission to pick her up and take her anywhere
fighting for my family
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lostintranslation
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Technically, your visits are supervised. Your sister is acting as the visitation supervisor. Unsupervised would be just that. You would be able to get your daughter and leave and go someplace for your alloted time.
I would ask your daughter if she is telling people she doesn't want to start therapy. Record it.
If you are working with an independent reunification service provider, excellent. Of course they work closely with CPS; they have to to be able to provide their services of reunification.
I would ask your daughter if she is telling people she doesn't want to start therapy. Record it.
If you are working with an independent reunification service provider, excellent. Of course they work closely with CPS; they have to to be able to provide their services of reunification.
Hell hath no fury like a parent scorn
the judge said unsupervised it is in my court papers but they still make me ask them to take her anywhere it took me over a week to see if i could take her a couple of hours for her birthday
i think my daughter is playing everyone right to get what she wants i cant get her to understand this is not a game
this is the only down fall for having her at my sisters instead of foster home
i know if she was in a foster home she would be screaming for counseling so she could come home but she is having to much fun at my sisters her cousin is only 4 days younger than her
i think my daughter is playing everyone right to get what she wants i cant get her to understand this is not a game
this is the only down fall for having her at my sisters instead of foster home
i know if she was in a foster home she would be screaming for counseling so she could come home but she is having to much fun at my sisters her cousin is only 4 days younger than her
fighting for my family
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dasuberding
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"law states if they fear for the safety of the child they can remove her from school without court order and that is exactly what they did with police there and all"
This is stated wrong! The law states that they can remove a child from school only if the child is in imminent danger, meaning the child must be in danger from something at the school. Of course, to CPS, all children are in imminent danger. It can't be for the usual "minority report" crap that CPS usually pulls. The goons pulled this stunt on us and the police and it has backfired terribly for them. This excuse will not work in a higher court because it's impossible to prove and it's just plain illegal!
This is stated wrong! The law states that they can remove a child from school only if the child is in imminent danger, meaning the child must be in danger from something at the school. Of course, to CPS, all children are in imminent danger. It can't be for the usual "minority report" crap that CPS usually pulls. The goons pulled this stunt on us and the police and it has backfired terribly for them. This excuse will not work in a higher court because it's impossible to prove and it's just plain illegal!
i will talk to my lawyer about this but i know it will do me no good they will say they were afraid to send her home for fear for her safety
i am still trying to figure out what if anything my lawyer who is going to charge us around $6000. is doing
it seems i know more about things thanks to this sight than he does but my husband trust him i just hope my husband is not wrong
i am still trying to figure out what if anything my lawyer who is going to charge us around $6000. is doing
it seems i know more about things thanks to this sight than he does but my husband trust him i just hope my husband is not wrong
fighting for my family
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lostintranslation
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See this is where a trial will actually help you. They will have to prove, without a reasonable doubt, that she would be in danger if she was sent home. Also, them taking her from school is highly illegal. If she wasn't in imminent danger at school, they had no right removing her from there. If they thought it would be dangerous to send her home, they should have waited around the corner until she had gotten home from school and removed her as soon as she got home. What they did to your family is typical CPS bullshit.
Hell hath no fury like a parent scorn
they new she was in no danger but they also new thanks to my daughter if i new they would have sent her home i would have sent to her paternal grandparents in GA until i could straighten things out, so the case worker just didnt want to let this one get away
this is what i dont understand if they think we are a danger to her then why when i offered to let her grandparents take care of her why didnt they let me do that we even brought that up in court
i already now the answer to that they would not have been able to make all the money off of us they will be making now that they have her
this is what i dont understand if they think we are a danger to her then why when i offered to let her grandparents take care of her why didnt they let me do that we even brought that up in court
i already now the answer to that they would not have been able to make all the money off of us they will be making now that they have her
fighting for my family
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lostintranslation
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Actually, they are suppose to look at relative placement first. However, if the relative is out of state, they really don't like doing that. Alot of paperwork and processes that need to be done and it can take a very long time to get the out of state placement approved.
No matter where she was placed, they would still be making money off the case. You would still be ordered into services one way or the other. If they placed her with someone, they still have to pay that person the monthly allotment that they pay foster parents. They will still get the federal money for the case because she is in an out of home placement. As soon as your child is out of your home, the federal money starts rolling in for them.
No matter where she was placed, they would still be making money off the case. You would still be ordered into services one way or the other. If they placed her with someone, they still have to pay that person the monthly allotment that they pay foster parents. They will still get the federal money for the case because she is in an out of home placement. As soon as your child is out of your home, the federal money starts rolling in for them.
Hell hath no fury like a parent scorn
i think money is one of the biggest problems with the foster homes if they stopped paying them that might take out all of the ones that do it just for the money and not to help the kids
can i have our lawyer just represent my husband and me represent myself
i think thanks to this sight i know more about what needs to be done than our lawyer and he wont listen to what i want or say
can i have our lawyer just represent my husband and me represent myself
i think thanks to this sight i know more about what needs to be done than our lawyer and he wont listen to what i want or say
fighting for my family
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dasuberding
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Yes, you can represent yourself but the judge probably will not like it. Also, what CPS needed to do with the removal of your child from school was wait a couple of hours and get a warrant for the removal. If you decide to fight this on a higher level, this unwarranted removal from the school will kill their case.
im concerned if i represent myself and lawyer represents my husband that cps will take that as a devide in the family and that i believe maybe he did do something which i know he has not
things just keep getting more confusing i feel this has taken over my whole life this is all i ever think about i dream it i just cant even forget for 5 minustes my brain is always trying to find a way to fix it
my counselor asked me about two weeks ago if things were getting better as if in time i would be able to except the fact my daughter is gone and go on about my daily routine without a worry
i will not rest until my daughter is brought home
i really for sorry for the people who's kids are in foster homes i am like this and my kid is at my sisters house and i get to talk to everyday but i feel our bond is starting to bend i dont know how we will be able to bring the family back together after all that has been said and done
things just keep getting more confusing i feel this has taken over my whole life this is all i ever think about i dream it i just cant even forget for 5 minustes my brain is always trying to find a way to fix it
my counselor asked me about two weeks ago if things were getting better as if in time i would be able to except the fact my daughter is gone and go on about my daily routine without a worry
i will not rest until my daughter is brought home
i really for sorry for the people who's kids are in foster homes i am like this and my kid is at my sisters house and i get to talk to everyday but i feel our bond is starting to bend i dont know how we will be able to bring the family back together after all that has been said and done
fighting for my family
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lostintranslation
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DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT let CPS know that you feel the bond between you and your daughter is starting to weaken. They will use that against you big time, and run with it all the way to the TPR request. If for one moment they sense the bond weakening, it will take you forever to prove it's not.
Hell hath no fury like a parent scorn
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MissCatskill
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TPR
What is a TPR stand for?
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lostintranslation
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dasuberding
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"im concerned if i represent myself and lawyer represents my husband that cps will take that as a devide in the family and that i believe maybe he did do something which i know he has not"
This is the one of the most often used CPS legal tactics. Divide and conquer. The thing is not to concern yourself with what CPS thinks but not to act like your not concerned when around the goons. If there isn't a devide between you and your husband, you have nothing to worry about. If CPS ask questions about your legal situation, tell them it's none of their business. Remember, you are at war with these people. You don't give your op order to the enemy.
This is the one of the most often used CPS legal tactics. Divide and conquer. The thing is not to concern yourself with what CPS thinks but not to act like your not concerned when around the goons. If there isn't a devide between you and your husband, you have nothing to worry about. If CPS ask questions about your legal situation, tell them it's none of their business. Remember, you are at war with these people. You don't give your op order to the enemy.
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