Ok...I did it....

[pamom2crew]

Today, I called the cw and told her "thankyou for writing the service/treatment plan, but since it has everything that I'm already doing, I feel there is no need for you to come to my home any longer"
She was silent for about 20 seconds, then said "ok, I will have to talk to my supervisor about a court order"
So, I said "ok, we no longer need to see you unless there is a court order"
Then she says "so, I guess you don't want me to come today?"
And then I said"no".
And she said ok, bye

So....what happens now????????? I am hoping they just drop it, because the judge should not give them a court order, there is no reason to.
But, if he does...then what? Am i forced to allow them in my home? Do i have to do whatever they say?
Or, is there any chance they can just come and take the kids, because of me not allowing them here anymore?
Anyone who knows, please let me know....

[DontBiteMyNose]

I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but, I believe if the goons have the judge in their pockets (which they usually do), they may get a warrant, and you have to comply with that. If they come with a warrant, demand to see it. They could be bluffing with police presence. What I believe you need to do is immediately get an attorney and see if he can block any warrants or court orders.

You must remember, that the goons have no power and they're NOT law enforcement. They have absolutely no authority to barge in and take anything, including the kids. If I were in this situation and the goons show up without the cops and say they have a warrant, I'd slam the door shut.

No where in the United States can a non-law-enforcement person serve a warrant (unless it's a person securing a surety bond signed by a judge to one who is a commissioned bounty hunter depending on the State).

The ole "I cannot afford one" (attorney) should not be in your vocabulary, as one cannot put a dollar amount on cohesiveness of the family. I know hindsight is 20/20, but, for future references, you could probably avoid this by not cooperating in the first place.

Good job for standing up to the gestapo and GET AN ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY UPON WAKING.

[lynn5067]

if they get a judge involved your lawyer can fight for things for you on what you should or should not have to do, the judge might make you do some of the things but not all
or if they have the judge in their pocket then of course they will get everything they want
i am praying for you that they just drop it
but if not we are here for you
i dont think they have enough to take your kids but i didnt think they had enough in my case either
good luck and stand strong

[Marina]

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/j2ee/programs/cb ... p?QAId=793

Administration of Children and Families
Home > Laws & Policies > Laws > Child Welfare Policy Manual
8.1C TITLE IV-E, Administrative Functions/Costs, Calculating Claims

5. When May Federal financial participation (FFP) begin for candidates for foster care?

... A State must document that it has determined that a child is a candidate for foster care pursuant to one of three acceptable methods: a case plan that identifies foster care as the goal absent preventative services; an eligibility form used to document the child's eligibility for title IV-E; or evidence of court proceedings related to the child's removal from the home.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/j2ee/programs/cb ... p?QAId=787

8.1D TITLE IV-E, Administrative Functions/Costs, Candidates

2. At what point may a child be considered a candidate for foster care?

8.1D TITLE IV-E, Administrative Functions/Costs, Candidates

2. At what point may a child be considered a candidate for foster care?

Clearly, if the State agency has initiated court proceedings to effect the child's removal from home, s/he is at serious risk of removal from the home...

The DAB also ruled in Decision No. 1428 that a report of child abuse or neglect is insufficient for establishing a child's candidacy for foster care: "...The fact that a child is the subject of [a child abuse/neglect report] falls far short of establishing that the child is at serious risk of placement in foster care and thus of becoming eligible for IV-E assistance..." A candidate, in the opinion of the DAB, is a child who is at serious risk of removal from his/her home because the State is either pursuing that removal or attempting to prevent it. A child cannot be considered a candidate for foster care when the State agency has no formal involvement with the child or simply because s/he has been described as "at risk" due to circumstances such as social/interpersonal problems or a dysfunctional home environment.

- - - - - - -

This is a good link to use in a Declaration of Facts.

[Dazeemay]

Marina said,

This is a good link to use in a Declaration of Facts

.

It is also a good link to send them in a letter.

Personally I think you need to send them a certified letter listing laws, Federal laws, statutes, your constitutional rights as a parent (go to Legal research, Research Resources on this site) and find as many posts as you can and compose a letter to them about what you know.

I believe that if more parents did this in the beginning stages of their case it would help thwart some of their actions. Also if you have a POA or temp guardianship set up let them know in the letter that you have also sent this letter to your lawyer, if you get one, and the childrens guardians.

Do this right away and you may just keep them from getting a court order.

[pamom2crew]

Good job for standing up to the gestapo and GET AN ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY UPON WAKING.


See, here's the thing. I have 2 lawyers who I hired right after this all started. Well, they have told me that if I refused to take their advice and go along with what the cw's say, then they will drop me as a client.
So, they do not know that I've done this.
And as soon as they do, I will have no lawyer, I'm going to just try to fight this on my own, because from what they've told me to do all along, I did, and it got me no where. But now that I'm doing what I feel, we will see what happens.

[pamom2crew]

Ok, assuming they get a court order.
It would be a court hearing, correct? And then the judge would either order that I follow their plan and allow them in my home or not, correct?
If the judge does, I really don't care. I never had a problem with them in my home, really. I just don't like the cw telling me that I'm doing everything I should be and that if she had been on the case 1st that she would have closed it out, and then me knowing the old cw is spying on us. I do not like feeling like I'm doing something wrong, when I'm not...that to me is just wrong.
So, that's why I figured I'd try this and see what happens.
I can't do guardianship papers, because my husband refuses to have any part of any of this, and he refuses to sign the papers for it.
But, I guess we will see what happens next, hopefully soon.
Any of you who did receive a court order, how long did it take for that to happen? Or anything else that happened?

[DontBiteMyNose]

Usually, a "hearing" is another name for a "trial before a judge". There are a couple of scenarios I could think of when it comes to the attorneys. First, they could drop you OR they could try to work around you standing up for your rights and suck more money from your wallet. I would definitely start searching for a DIFFERENT lawyer.

Now, if you went to the hearing, it is possible that the judge will ask if you're represented. If you tell him you are representing yourself, I'm sure he'll try to talk you out of it. More than likely he'll put a continuance until you do have some representation. If he rules without you being represented (can you feel the cash handed to him under the table?), I would call the bar, the DA, the newspapers and raise one hell of a stink.

More than likely he'll want to issue you a public pretender, who in my opinion probably receives kickbacks from the goons, and doesn't do shit to begin with.

So.....keep on shopping for an attorney until you find one that has nuts and not afraid of the State. Remember what Lincoln said, "He who represents himself has a fool for an attorney".

[Momoffor]

to get the court order, they would just have the judge rubber stamp it. You will never even know that it happened until they show up with it. BUT, in order to get a court order, they have to PROVE why they need it. They lie generally, but with you already cooperating, I wouldnt worry about it. Furthermore, just my opinion, but if it was going to happen, it already would have. I believe the social worker was giving you idle threats.

But still dont let your guard down. You never know what they will pull out of their hat next.

[pamom2crew]

Well, I haven't heard anything yet from them, and I would assume that if this was such a big deal, then they would have gotten a court order yesterday and dropped it off.
I am hoping, yet knowing it may not happen, that they just leave us alone. And, yes I know many of you will think that is stupid, but I just have so much going on health wise that I really don't have time to deal with all of this right now.
So I'm keeping my guard up, but keeping my fingers crossed too.

[Frustrated]

Yup. Just carry on what you do every day life with a Normal Family Life, and you shouldn't allow them to "interfere" with your Family Life. Period. But keep on guarded front at all times. I do that anyways every day and they haven't been back since.

You see, you notice by her saying the so famous word "I will have to call my supervisor and get a court order". That alone is a famous threat on Families. Sure enough, it would be tougher to tell the Judge that they need a court order where there IS NO IMMINENT DANGER OF HARM....(why did you wait too long kind of thing...). Best bet they are just bluffing and threatening you with words, scaring you with these words "I would have to get back to you when I talk to my super and see if there is a court order" famous bluff. I have heard that many times before, and they would have done it already too. They don't just wait and see and pass 24 hours window to a week to several weeks just to get a court order? Judge will question their TIMING. (why wait so long?)

What I would recommend (just in case to protect yourself and your Family) is to secure a PROOF DOCUMENT THAT YOU HAD ALREADY DONE THE SERVICES ON YOUR OWN. You will tell the Judge "Your honor, I have already done these services on my own and here is the proof of document to back these claims up". Now another is to secure a proof or a witness to claim that there was no imminent danger of harm and they had (visited) your home several times and that window has {passed}. Ask if this is a VOLUNTARY Service which means you DO NOT have to volunteer THEIR CPS Service, but getting a private service on your own is YOUR OWN RIGHT.

They would have acted right away but they didn't. So best bet there isn't one.

[pamom2crew]

That's what I'm thinking also.
So, I should get a letter from everyone who provides my kids therapies, and special schools for the special needs kids, and submit those to the judge in case of a hearing?
I can do that, also I can get a letter from neighbors and things stating that my children are never outside alone, because we do not play outside here, EVER. We go to the playground and things, even though we have a fenced in yard. Only because I hate nosy cps, being able to se us whenever they want by driving past.

I did fire my attorneys, and as many of you may feel is stupidity, I am going to represent myself with the help of a few people.
I know the odds of cps just going away is nearly impossible, but I am ready to fight them in court, and it will work out in the end.
I just want this to all be over and done with.