My situation in my case got worse. Much worse.

[anxiousmom]

Harlen,

If they are not going to TPR you, how can they state you can never see your children again? You still have parental rights if they do not TPR you.

And....the judge decides NOT CPS!

Do not give up! You have to keep fighting!

[Harlan Carroll]

Thank you, AM. I'm not planning on giving up. I'll fight this all the way to civil court.

Here's what's been going through my head:

1) They've already tried working on Clarisa, telling her to make a choice between me and our kids.

2) They are also basically bringing up things like the kids keep asking about her, but not their dad.

3) I think they are possibly going to see about getting me to somehow get a separate lawyer. I don't know quite how this would happen, but it would be a matter of getting her to split off from me, forcing the issue. I see a ploy ahead.

4) The ploy would basically entail me leaving the house I am in, getting my own place, so that unsupervised visits could eventually occur with Clarisa and the kids. CPS finds against me, and tries a civil suit. If Clarisa supports me, then she loses the kids. If she works against me, they'll cut a deal with her.

5) I also think they would try to get her to testify against me, even though she doesn't believe I'd ever molest our kids.

6) BTW Clarisa and I already agreed she would pick the kids in that worst-case scenario. And we've already discussed that I'd give child support REGARDLESS of how the outcome was reached. My Dad gave child support to my Mom until I was 18, voluntarily, and they separated when I was 3 years old.

[fightingfor3]

Harlan, basically what your wife is saying is that you have been re-accused this time with sexual abuse and therefore are going back to court regarding these “charges“ the same as you had in the beginning. You have better tools and knowledge than you did the first time. Don't start looking at what is going to happen in the future, whether you are going to ever see the kids or your wife again. Yes, that possibility is there. You've acknowledged it. Now let it be the motivating factor to fight like you've never fought before. You are stronger at this point, whether you realize it or not. And this may be an opportunity to shine light on all the other things they have done to screw you and your family. Start taking everyone’s advice. Get the need to prove your innocence out of your head and replace it with the need to get your kids back. Don’t let them push you in a wall where you start doubting yourself. If you didn’t do it that’s all you need to know, move past it and use the advice you have been given and the tools you have learned and don’t wait for their next move, don’t wait for your lawyer to sort this all out, make your move.

[calverson]

Hey I've read most of your posts. I feel for you. CPS are awful people. Maybe speak with your lawyer and see if he and a police officer can question your children about the things that they allegedly said to cps. I know that it's a longshot but it's worth the try right? You probley won't be allowed there and your lawyer will most likely have to request the meeting through court. If your lawyer and a police officer and even a councellor maybe are present during the questioning then everything said is legit when you go back to court. Ask your lawyer if he can make this possible???? I had talked to my lawyer about the same thing and he had to ask the judge in court for approval. This might be just what you need to prove your innocence. Oooh and eventhough a lie dectector test isn't admissable in court if you do request to take one and pass it then the police can NOT charge you! That right there would prove your innocence. I live in Canada things might be different here but it's worth a try. There was a police investigation going on with me and my spouse for allegedly breaking my daughters arm and just by talking and cooperating with the police they closed their criminal investigation. Doing a lie detector test will prove your innocence in the laws eyes but unfortunately not with cps. Anyways I hope this helps you some. Take care ok my prayers are with you and your family......

[gemgem]

I rarely post but read all of this and want to say how sorry I am for what you have been going through. What a nightmare. I am also dealing with sexual abuse accusations, albeit not against me but against my ex husband. I honestly dont know what to believe and the whole situation has been long and very odd. In a million years as much as I dislike my ex I would never have fathomed the situation were in. These accusations came from my son though who is only six yrs old, and his therapist called cps.

I dont know if this will help or hurt your feelings to say but with us this has been going on almost a year now. And we are only in the investigative process right now. My son was never removed but they were planning to remove him because my ex was court ordered visits and they felt he might be abusing our son sexually. I was told I had to send son to visit bc of the court order, but if I did I would be negligent. So basically I was in a damned if you do damned if you dont situation. I was told by my lawyer if I send my son they would place him in foster care bc h e knows how cps is and was going to get an ex parte order giving me sole custody to protect my son while the investigation is completed. We went to court costing me five thous dollars I dont have, and lo and behold my lawyer was right they had planned to take my son had we not done this. My ex of course blames me, but honestly I had no idea, and was in a no win situation where I had to protect my son from the foster care system. If it meant limited visits and supervised for ex so be it. Exs lawyer is aware of this and working with my lawyer and cps to resolve things. Ex is still pissed at me and started making counter accusations about me. That has made things messier to say the least and made cps even more involved to try and find something on me now.

My ex has fought this every step of the way, which cps seems to think indicated his guilt. I really dont know where they get this from but cps is their own entity. My ex has demanded new case workers and got it. We now have had a child forensic psych eval which we both take part in, and our own psych evals because of the countered allegations ex has made on me. My ex for some reason believes I reported him when I have not, did not and would not. I dont want cps in our lives at all.

My point is you can fight this, and ask for a forensic child eval, psych evals on you and your wife to prove you have no mental illness or history of abuse of any form prior to this or close to whats being said. Also the obvious document everything. Before I even came to this site my lawyer had me documenting every conversation with cps I ever had even before they started trying to say I was a bad parent and were focussing on my ex only. My lawyer said cps is slimey and theyll do whatever they can to continue a case because it is more funding for them and the state. I was also told without physical evidence of abuse by a doctor no charges would ever be placed on my ex.
Now honestly I dont know if my ex ever did anything to my son or not. I do know he had sex in front of him which in my state is considered sexual abuse. But it seems to me the more this goes on the more comes out by my son. How much is true and how much is told to him by others I have no idea but obviously I support my son and have to protect him in anyway possible. I have had run ins with cps myself like you for a messy house and domestic violence. CPS will do anythning to keep the case going, and usually do nothing to really help any family.

[anxiousmom]

gemgem,

Are you saying your ex had actual sexual intercourse in front of your son?

If so, that is very disturbing & is is psycholgoically & emotionally abusive!

It sounds like things are going well as far as you keeping your son.

[Greegor]

Do you think the kid is telling the honest truth?
Is the kid manipulative or angry or needing attention?
Maybe after being asked about sexual abuse
so many times he felt "left out"? Repeated questions
cause that kind of wierd false accusation.

Not knowing for sure is horrible.

[gemgem]

gemgem,

Are you saying your ex had actual sexual intercourse in front of your son?

If so, that is very disturbing & is is psycholgoically & emotionally abusive!

It sounds like things are going well as far as you keeping your son.

Yes that is what happened. Im lucky I have a good lawyer that knows all of cps' games because they tried to turn it around on me and say I wasnt keeping him safe by allowing court ordered visits. However if I hadnt I would have been held in contempt. CPS was supoeona'd to a hearing we had o nce and didnt show. They really are peices of work because I know that if I had been under supeona and didnt show Id be locked up.
Im doing everything I can to protect my son while jumping through cps hoops. They told me flat out they were looking for anything on me and my ex to take custody of our son but that I didnt have so much as a ticket and I had a good lawyer. I was also told that they would have an easier time of things if I wasnt educated. In other words, they go after people who might trust them, and then screw them over. I think that alone is very telling of CPS and the system.

[Harlan Carroll]

Talked with my lawyer today. She kept asking me if I had any idea what I did that could be misconstrued as sexual contact, and I had to break it to her that I am still coming up with blanks. I don't really know what I've supposed to have done, in order to peice together how my actions were taken out of context.

Which bothers me. If CPS really had open lines of communication with me, I could help contribute to this "investigation" but they're basically running without my input. And eventually they'll make their decision without my input. And we'll end up in court and I still don't know if that'll prompt specifics out of CPS. So who knows when I'll learn about them?

What also bothers me is that whatever far our things my kids said might be solidified by case workers constantly asking about whatever they are talking about. And in a sense, making real something that never happened. It becomes an issue of getting a story straight, not getting the facts out.

BTW apparently the tapes didn't reveal any accusations against me, so I hope that helps. But the kids are going to some counselors to get whatever information CPS can from them. But all I know is that previous counseling sessions revealed no history of abuse or sexual misconduct, so I would be surprised if suddenly a history of either magically appears. If so, I fear I am being played, and there's probably no force on Earth that'll be able to protect me from it.

[good dad]

BTW apparently the tapes didn't reveal any accusations against me, so I hope that helps

Who did the interview? What were their credentials?

[Harlan Carroll]

I have no clue. Some "third party" agency.

I need to see if I can get a hold of a copy of the tapes and/or video.

[good dad]

You also need your lawyer to get the name of the interviewer, years in practice, qualifications, degrees or special education certificates...

CPS contracts by price...The ones doing the interviews usually aren't the most qualified or the most reputable..

You need to sway the judge to seeing the interview as coerced or that they asked leading questions...

If there was nothing incriminating on the video, when did they say it?

[Harlan Carroll]

Apparently at a McDonalds the two boys were with the case worker we've been having for the last year and a half, and the case worker who will be taking over in our case. Somehow the case workers were asking about how a recent weekend visit went and from there it led to a conversation where supposedly the boys said something about me molesting them (or something).

Anyhow the interview took place, and my lawyer and I were led to believe there was incriminating stuff on the tapes. Later we come to find out there apparently wasn't. But that a counselor talked with the kids separately and they repeated the same stuff.

Which still ultimately leaves me in the dark with the trail of hearsay. Until I get an actual list of claims and/or hear what CPS says in court - I have no clue what's really being said, by whom, about what....

[good dad]

But that a counselor talked with the kids separately and they repeated the same stuff.

Find out the above questions about the councellor..

I'm sure your caseworker isn't a qualified interviewer, you could argue that the worker should have, at the first instance of the childs accusations, stopped and had a trained child interviewer, interview them... She may have, even unknowingly, helped shape the outcome of the story, by the questions she asked...