Me, or the kids.

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Harlan Carroll
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:50 am

Me, or the kids.

Postby Harlan Carroll » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:35 am

I hate that my wife and I - and my kids - are being put into this situation. My whole family is suffering because of this. But it looks like CPS is going to try to prosecute me for some sort of sexual misconduct, or inappropriate touching. They're apparently looking to take TPR off our current case, settle that, and essentially file a new case before the judge. Apparently criminal charges are off the table, but CPS can act towards a civil case. And naturally CPS's standards for splitting up families doesn't even require any criminal action to have occured, so this is still their ballgame.

Anyhow, here is what I think will happen:

CPS will come to my wife, and try to make a deal with her. Split up with me (either divorce or some form of permenant separation) in order to get her children back. If that happens they'll only seek to charge me in a civil court, not her. If she chooses not to leave me, then they will not allow the children to come back to her, and will push yet again for TPR for both of us.

So in essence they are giving my wife a choice - me, or the kids. Choose one, but you can't have both. And naturally if Clarisa chooses me, we have to go to court for a TPR hearing, and we now have a second CPS case that's actually a TPR case, not a reunification case. But if she chooses the kids, CPS will make it easy for her and plan for reunification. And they won't push for a TPR for me, so I can have my wages garnished to provide child support for the kids.

I want to be clear here. My wife and I have already agreed that if it ever really came down to it, she'd pick the kids over me. It's not even a question, really. We'd both rather the kids be with one of us, than neither of us. Furthermore, TPR or not, I'd provide child support. But here is what gets me:

I don't like that CPS would be offering this sort of "deal" to my wife. And in fact they've already strongly hinted at it the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. I don't believe it's their place to suggest breaking our marriage up in order to have one parent reunify with the kids. Marriage is important to both of us, and that's why we've stayed together despite adversity for nearly 10 years. Where all of our other friends have all broken up and divorced - we're still together. And we've tried to set good examples for our kids, despite our other failings. We don't feel we should have to give up what we have.

Right now, as best as I can figure here is our best-case scenario, if we settle out of court. It can't get any better than this: I have to leave my family. I can no longer associate with my wife and kids. No visits. No phone calls. Nothing. My wife will, all by herself, take care of all four kids. Furthermore she's going to have to move into some income-based housing, and somehow be able to work and raise all four kids. If I were to move back in with my wife after this is all over, the kids are immediately removed, etc. My wages will be garnished and probably I will be kept track of somehow, to assure that my wife and I don't reunite.

But what if we fight this, instead of settling out of court? Either we win or we lose. If we win, we get the whole enchilada. The whole family. If we lose, my wife and I lose the kids. Or potentially we would get a divorced and perhaps she can keep the kids.

My wife and I were talking about this last night. What are the real risks? Well if we plea bargain with the D.A. or negotiate with CPS, we eliminate our chance for the positive outcome we want the most - our entire family reunited. That's off the table for good if we cave in. We also don't want to risk losing the kids as a result of us saving our marriage.

So this is what I am asking of you guys and gals. What _really_ are our options? And what can we do to deflect these offerings by CPS? Can they really force us to divorce?

I don't want to give up. I want to fight CPS. But I want to be on the offensive for a change. I want to be able to make a request to the judge to not let CPS do that to us, somehow. I don't want whether or not my wife and I, or my family, are spread apart for good, shy of findings in a court of law. But what could a family court decide for us? If we lose in court (or if it's just a suit against me, and I lose) can CPS still TPR my wife?

Anyhow, if you all can look at my reasoning here, and perhaps attempt to answer the questions I bolded, I'd appreciate it. I want to be armed with knowledge that could make a difference. Thank you in advance. :)

Marina
Moderator
Posts: 5496
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:06 pm

Postby Marina » Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:33 pm

I am going to say this over and over again.

This is adult abuse.

Caseworkers in these situations have control over the parents, by operation of law, and qualify as being named 'responsible parties.'

Unless you consent, the act of caseworkers coercing adults to do this type of thing by the use of threats is abuse.

This is criminal.

There are laws against this crime.

Make a police report and name the caseworker as the 'responsible party.'

That is the only strategy I know.

User avatar
Greegor
Posts: 746
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:20 am
Location: Cedar Rapids Iowa

Postby Greegor » Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:34 pm

Harlan:
1. CPS does not make good faith bargains, nor honor them.
2. There is no guarantee that once they cut you out they
will not turn right around and go after her (failure to protect).
3. There is even less of a guarantee they won't go after her later.
4. Your life would be pretty miserable cut off that way
(Not the best productivity that way either)
5. The kids need their Dad.

Those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither.
Ben Franklin

makaylajayncharlie
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 6:08 am
Location: us

Postby makaylajayncharlie » Sun Dec 03, 2006 5:41 pm

when we were dealing with dhs here is australia they rang me one say the team leader and says ur husband has been abusive towards children (which he was not false allergations towards the ex) the truth is she said either u move out and leave him divorce him or no kids,,,, i never did i kept fighting requested a new team got my wish and went into reunifacation so hopefully things will work out for you! :D

Harlan Carroll
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:50 am

Postby Harlan Carroll » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:05 pm

Yeah I am not giving up! My wife is going to go see the kids today. I just gave this message to her, for her to read out loud to them, since I cannot be there:

Hi Kids!

This is Daddy. I love you very much and I miss you so much. I am sorry I can't be here with you. I hope to see you as soon as I can. Mommy and Daddy are still fighting for you guys to come home, and we both want you to know that. I know you guys can't see that we are trying to get you to come back home with us but trust me, we have never given up. I want you all to have a Merry Christmas. Give an extra hug to Mommy for me. Thank you!

Love, Dad.


That shouldn't be deemed coercive or anything and hopefully the CPS worker won't prevent my wife from reading this to the children.

Also, hopefully my wife can get more information regarding our investigation.


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