Too late to change?

[Katy]

My private lawyer is not always nice to me. I truly think he does not understand depression and is not representing me to the fullest extent I should be.

My next and last court hearing is March 2nd. I am now completely broke and wonder if I should switch to a public defender. I was told at the courthouse that I have to have a hearing with the judge to do that- a public defender is court appointed. I was advised to pay a lawyer to be consulted on the process and see if a switch would be advisable- what the pros and cons would be.

Life with my daughter hangs in the balance. CPS has been quite adamant I am not doing enough, although they won't tell me exactly what I've done wrong or inadequately. I am getting very stressed out as the end draws near and could use some advice. Anyone with any ideas?

[fightingfor3]

You have a right to know what it is they are requiring to get your children back. I would suggest you write them a certified letter asking and give them 10 days to respond. When they don't respond then you take it to court. If they do respond you keep that letter for your permanent record, but bust butt, get it done, and then hold them to it.

A switch would be disruptive. If you obtain a new lawyer it will slow the process and they will likely take a long time to get your file and effectiveness may be loss. There are things that you can do to make sure this happens smoothly. Get your case file. You have a right to it. Go through it. Point out the important stuff. Write a Declaration of Facts. Help your lawyer. I am not one to believe you can pass a check and expect that these people are going to do what they are supposed to for you. You must be active and diligent. In these cases, I think the saying "if you want it done, do it yourself" is your best bet.

[Frustrated]

Did your Lawyer say that he or she will work to get your Kids back?

If so, I guess just have to swallow it and let her/him do the job. But if they are not saying nothing to get your Kids back then consideration would hang in balance to switch new Lawyers. Most People don't like their Lawyers and most Lawyers do a lousy and lazy jobs, so it is 50/50 per chance. I just found out that my Lawyer was a CPS Lawyer, and I just dropped him and found out he became a Superior Judge for Ontario Courts. But he did the Job for me by getting what I wanted because I told him so.

It is like a Case of "I don't like him" and "he don't like me" but we have to learn how to work together just like any work place.

I would wait till the Case is over in March then GET A NEW LAWYER AFTERWARDS. This way it wouldn't be so disruptive while they have their Hearings in March.

Just a Thought.

[Katy]

Thanks all!

I have my daughter in my custody. CPS just keeps threatening me with sending her to her father's in Alaska to live, saying I am not getting my case plan done in a timely manner. I am constantly stressed out about it.

My lawyer yells at me and says that maybe I am a neglectful mom for doing some of the things I do. Then I have to prove him wrong, either with another professional (psychiatrist or psychologist have been my usual advocates) or paperwork. Last problem was getting my daughter to the dentist, but her insurance was pending for almost 4 months while our AK court custody papers were examined and I couldn't rush this process. Then they said she was approved and the dentist took her, but 2 weeks later the doctor's office said she had been disqualified and I had hours trying to straighten that out.

My lawyer yells at me and I get so frustrated I cry and forget my reasons for not getting the job done and thus don't say anything. I suffer from depression and have alot of social anxiety. Conflicts and court leave me feeling like a deer caught in the headlights- unable to move or say anything. And these are the situations I really need him to understand me and stand up for me. To me it seems he keeps trying to lump me in with drug addicts and alcoholics- people he's worked with extensively and my symptoms mimic but my recovery process does not.

While writing this I realized it probably is too late to change lawyers and I should work with the one I have. I will just have to be proactive and teach him more about my condition weekly.... I have begun getting letters from profesionals involved with me and with friends who have witnessed what is going on and can verify the changes they see I have made.

Just writing my problem has made things clearer to me. And knowing others in my position would stick with what they have is counter to what my friends think, but not the best advice from people not stuck in this CPS insanity. We know how twisted things are presented to someone with the power to take away what is most precious to us....

The stakes are so high! Thank you for considering my case and giving your advice! Bless you Katy

[Marina]

A number of people on this forum have changed lawyers, some more than once.

I would give it some more thought and consideration. There are standards that lawyers are supposed to go by.

[fightingfor3]

I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR: I did not suggest stick it out with a POS lawyer. You need to go with your gut. If this lawyer is doing a crappy job, which if he is yelling at you, and accusing you, how exactly is he going to defend you? Secondly, you don't need to worsen your condition by any means by taking ABUSE. But you need to be aware of what it can do to your case and be prepared if you decide to change that there are going to be some bumps, that you can help smooth out. Also, don't expect any lawyer, whether you change once or a thousand times to represent you the way you should be.

I understand the anxiety and the depression, but somehow you will have to cope and empower yourself so that you can stand up for yourself, and especially for your little one.

I personally, would fire him in a heart beat. I would tell him to wipe his @$$ with my last check and then report him to the bar. But that's just me.

[Katy]

I think this week I will try to talk to him in his office with all the information I have and see what he has to say. I can make up my mind on how I feel he will do this last court hearing based on what happens then. I am just really nervous!

I am also going to research my case better so I can lay down the groundwork on what has happened and present it all to whomever will represent me.

Years ago I decided that too many times making big changes that seem right usually is the wrong thing to do because it rarely turns out as I planned. I will try to remember this as I talk to Mr. Lawyer. If I feel intimidated I will write it out for him to read. But any bad gut reactions and I go elsewhere!

Thanks for the advice. I will keep the board updated.

[fightingfor3]

Just try and be as straight forward and direct with him as possible. Ask him, what is it that you are willing to do or not do for me? Tell him that you will not tolerate abuse, especially as he is working for YOU. Tell him that you have to listen to your gut and to make the decisions that are right for you and your family because you are the one that has to live with this for the rest of your life. Katy, you don't want to look back down the road and say, "I really wish I would have listened to myself." or done this or that differently. This is YOUR child. YOUR life. You have every right to own that. He doesn't have invested what you do. He will sleep at night and his life will not change regardless of what happens to you.

I have a feeling you haven't had a lot of support in your life and that perhaps you are a people pleaser. I think that perhaps things might not have worked out in some cases for you in the past because you rely on what other people think is best for you. I bet if you listen to that voice that is ringing in your head or that feeling in your gut and follow it through you will make good decisions for yourself and the right ones, as a result maybe you can relax and enjoy things more. Just remember Katy, no one else is going to do this for you. This is a life altering thing to go through and the outcome is going to be up to you. I believe you know what is right for you, you found this site, you expressed your hesitations regarding your lawyer, you know what he is doing is wrong, and you have already posted several solutions. You got it girl. Just listen a little harder and find the courage to act upon what you hear. You can do it.

[lostintranslation]

Katy,

While I was in therapy, one of the things we learned was effective communication. There are many tools involved but the one that really worked for me was something called DEAR MAN. I think if you sit down and do this, you might be able to get your lawyer to listen to you. Of course, it doesn't always work but it might be worth a try.

DEAR MAN

D: Describe the situation.
E: Express how you feel about it.
A: Assert your request.
R: Reinforce the other person for giving you what you want.

M: Stay mindful.

* Be a broken record
* Ignore attacks

A: Appear confident.
N: Negotiate if needed.


While doing this, there are several things to keep in mind.

1. Priorities. What are my priorities in this situation?
>>Are my objectives very important (increase intensity)
>>Is the relationship weak? (reduce intensity)
>>Is my self respect on the line? (increase intensity)

2. Capability
>>Is the person capable of giving me what I want? If yes, ask more strongly.
>>Do I have what the person wants?

3. Timeliness. Is this a good time to ask?
4. Homework. Have I done all my homework? Do I know all the facts to support my request.

5. Authority. Am I responsible for this situation? Does the person have authority over me?

6. Rights. Is the person required by law or morality to give me what I want? Am I required to give them what they want?

7. Relationship. Is this request appropriate for our relationship?

8. Reciprocity. What have you done for me lately? What have I done for you?

9. Long versus short term. Will being assertive or acquiescing to the request help or hurt my long term goals? What about my short term ones?

10. Respect. Do I usually do things for myself? Am I careful to avoid asking for help or seeming helpless when I can?


Granted, some of the last ten items may or may not pertain to your situation so you can pick and choose which ones to consider to use while doing DEAR MAN.

I have used this skill many times over since I learned it. It certainly helped us with our CPS case and with our thick headed former caseworker. I used it in a meeting I called at my home with all the key players in our case when it was open. No one seemed to be on the same page with anything so I called the meeting, told everyone to keep quiet and listen to me and went at it. Being assertive but not attacking is the key part if you want the skill to work.

If you want help with doing this, let me know and I can help you.

Good Luck,
LIT

[Frustrated]

A PROFESSIONAL Lawyer shouldn't be yelling at his/her Clients. It is ummm not so professional. It is more like childish. They are supposed to be professional and candid on their jobs.

If he was yelling at me, I would put a stop to it. For his "lack" of professionality, I would report him to the Bar Association if I were you.

No one should NOT be yelling at anyone and espeically he is a LAWYER, he shouldn't be yelling at anyone.

If you are paying him directly out of your pockets, you got to put your foot down and be the Boss of him. Tell him to stop yelling.

I maybe would go to the Courthouse and find out information from the Bar Association Office to find out if this is allowable by Law. If not, I would tell this Lawyer to stop yelling or report him to the Bar Association for poor Professionality.

That would put a stop to it. But that is just me and my opinion. Yes Katy, I have changed Lawyers many times and got successful. You got to be the Boss of your own Money on whose you are paying to whom. That is your own right.

[Katy]

I have gotten some good info here and plan to try it out. I know I have to be more assertive and hope the DEAR MAN process will be helpful! Having a clearcut way of doing things helps clear my mind and keeps me focused. Looking at my case and what I had to do to get my point across seemed almost impossible when I didn't really know the goals involved (except keeping my daughter) and how to keep a clear mind.

You all have been very helpful and taken alot of thought and time to respond. I will keep you posted on how things go.

[Frustrated]

To keep in mind that Lost inTranslation makes a good point, and I have tried this and it works.

Be a Broken Record...repeat one thing over and over until they get it.

and never change your Story.

It worked for me as I used this for Years. I learned this very same thing in College while I take my Courses for Business on how to sell and how to get rid of Salespeople. LOL the same tool that we learned in College worked fairly well pretty much ANYWHERE.

I got rid of Salespeople, Religion Callers, Dog Catchers, even CPS Workers with this tool....be a broken Record and that alone annoys them and gets tired of you and would FINALLY LEAVE.

It WORKS, believe me.

For example:

They ask to sell you something or ask you a question:

You respond, yes BUT...

they repeat the same thing over...

You say BUT...put in your answer...(I already have this material).

They are not satifised with the answer, you repeat the same word

BUT ................your comments....(I am sorry, I already had this material).

They get tired and would finally just leave.

Best of Luck to you and hope all worked out for you in March.

[Greegor]

Katy:
Very FEW attorneys actually want to afford you a "vigorous representation" against CPS agencies.

The most common problem is that the attorney might
even hold a meeting with you, say things to "placate"
you, meet with you 15 minutes before the adjudication
and suddenly PUSH YOU HARD to stipulate. They
will pitch stipulation as the easy solution.
The agency people might even promise an easy
service plan with few items. This promise is
USUALLY broken by the agency once they get
you to stipulate and they "own" you.

You are further along than that.

Was your service plan properly formed?

Were you actively involved in the FORMATION
of the Services Plan?

Or did they just come up with it and dump it on you?

Even GOOD Family Law attorneys generally don't
know that there are laws, regulations and policies
requiring "Family Active Participation in the FORMATION
of the Service Plan".

In regard to the performance of the services,
is there some REASON you haven't complied?

If you have complied then why is there friction?

I could imagine a good attorney feeling very
frustrated if they are trying to represent you
in the best light and you fail to do what you're
on the hook for. Is there some REASON you
are getting complaints for not doing services
you agreed to?

Have you failed to do services you agreed to
and what are your reasons?

Mothers who are BIPOLAR but take their meds
can keep their kids. If those same women
repeatedly refuse to take their meds, they
can also easily lose their kids.

I would much rather have an attorney
who is human and yells at me than have
one who just plain doesn't give a rip.

Or as is so common, some will "talk tough"
to placate you in their office, but go into
court acting like the meekest submissive lamb.

[psgirl4now]

I had a private attorney - It does help in the long run- dont worry about how nice he is to you - but what is he doing for you in the courtroom???? He should be talking behind the scenes with the court's councel- and updating you on where they stand ( off the record).