It just got way worse

[ldsmama5]

I am in total shock and blown away.
Yesterday I got a letter in the mail from a lawyer saying I have been charged with a crime. Ok this is wierd so I called and was told I have 5 felony child neglect charges on me. He wanted money to represent. I thought no way since DHS did their investigation and dropped it all unfounded. Well I called the DA and for sure charges were filed against me but paperwork hasn't been sent out. They also filed against my husband too. I guess the DHS couldn't find anything wrong but the sheriff that came went back and did a social service check with Oregon and the worker there that closed the case before we left, which I confirmed, opened something because she missed a psych eval and didn't see that until after we had gone.
Now DHS has been pulled back into it because the courts filed this not them. I don't know why they would do this because I was cleared by dhs. I am so scared.
My daughter is crying because they are taking her word fo what she said that wasn't true she just didn't want to do her school work.
They are now bringing back the case they closed which is when my kids say they have never been fed in our home any meals. Now the medical reports say they are fine. I feed them 3 meals a day of healthy food. I don't see a problem with that. My children many times won't finish their dinner and now that they are in a school that serves breakfast and lunch they even refuse to eat breakfast at school. yesterday I found out that there was a complaint I wasn't aware of that they only had an apple for luch or a pbj sandwich andnothing else. My kids would just not eat and waned to play outside so most days they brought their lunch home with food in there.
Why would I now be charged criminally if DHS dropped it. Yes this isn't from our DHS here starting this but the sheriffs office.

Any advice would help. I have never been charged with a crime and have no clue about criminal justice system.

[jackiew75]

5 charges of neglect? Is this a criminal or DHS matter?

[ldsmama5]

what happened was DHS closed the case as unfounded and the very next day the sheriff that came out with the social worker turned in stuff to the DA and they arre now filing criminal charges against me and my husband, whom they have never met. 5 counts for 5 kids. Even the physicals they did said my kids were healhy and happy and the charges are neglect through malnutrition. From what I have been told the documents they are using are from Oregon and the things there were through their dhs in July months after we left but the charges are for my current state and using documents from Oregon as evidence. I don't know how they can prove this. I don't know the criminal process at all and this seems very unfair to criminally charge me when DHS cleared me because I never did anything wrong. Then to also charge my husband who they have never met, who was cleared, and has nothing to do with cooking in my home.

[Greegor]

Beware the tactic of criminal charges to try to get
you to "stipulate" to a ""lesser"" in Juvenile Court.

Lots of people fall for that.

As most Family Rights people can tell you,
Juvenile Court is generally MORE hazardous
to your family than criminal court.

It sounds like a "con job" hoping they can
"own you" in Juvenile Court.

[Frustrated]

Say nothing to no body

Get a Lawyer AS SOON AS POSSIBLE

Have your Lawyer to go to the Police's Station to see if the Charges filed are even real, and to find out at the Court house if the Charges are indeed real.

I never HEARD of Charges being MAILED to YOU. Usually they have a Sheriff SERVER to SERVE YOU THE PAPERS, NOT MAILED. I have many Court experiences and got many papers SERVED to the other Person. It never can be MAILED.

Find out if the whole thing is legit by GETTING A LAWYER ASAP!

Do NOT SAY ANY WORD to NO ONE. It probably making the Case worse if you say something to that nature, and they probably want to put you on "fishing expedition". Like Gregor say, it can put you in dead heat if you were to go there and make the problems worse.

Call Lawyer asap, and defend yourselves. Have it IN CRIMINAL COURT, NOT JUVENILE COURT. Because like Gregor say, Juvie Court, you are screwed. Criminal Courts, you would be more safer there and get your CASE DISMISSED WITH EVIDENCE.

Gather Evidence ASAP, School records, Medical Records, Hospital Records, Dental Records, Witnesses that say you are great Parents that feeds your Children and do everything you can to ensure they have everything. Get everything and give these to your Lawyers.

Again, DO NOT say anything to no one, not even a Policeman or Sheriff. Surely NOT a CPS Worker.

Have your Lawyer file an Intervention to PREVENT THEM TO REMOVE YOUR CHILDREN. 5 Kids is alot to remove. Prevent that with your Lawyer's Defense. File Motions, do whatever, but never STIPULATE or PLEA BARGAIN. DO NOT DO IT.

If you feel that your Kids are well fed, well care for, Plead NOT GUILTY AND GO TO CRIMINAL COURTS.

Most likely it will be DISMISSED if you have the EVIDENCE that says they are HEALTHY.

[ldsmama5]

We can't afford a lawyer.
They won't assign a public defender until arraignment.
The good thing is that the pulic defender we will have is good. He was even recommended by other lawyers.
The letter we got was froma lawyer saying we were charged with a crime. I was formally served last night.
This time we have to be booked this week but no bail or bond is requested and we keep the kids.
We are staying in criminal court as long as we go through the proective custody services by CPS. With them they are letting us call the shots with where we go and the like. As long as we meet their requirements they are happy.
Next week is arraignment. I already found out there are so many falshoods in the case that it will be easy to have dismissed. For example my medical standing which will be disputed with an easy test.
Also my kids were fine on the blood work they did the suddenly they haveone of my kids with bloodwork saying malnutrition and dehydration. Well I have an appointment to get the tests redone myself.
Right now I am not in a good position to fight. House is in foreclosure because I had to take care of this stuff and pay for what they wanted. I have no medical insurance or anything. Husband has a good job coming up but that takes a bit. No insurance is offered through his work and I can't get state health insurance because we have a truck that my husband needs to get to work in. No truck no work.
So I guess being broke is a crime.
Husbands case will be dismissed quickly since he works so much he isn't home.
Mine however I have no clue what will happen. I know i did nothing wrong. My kids have the right height and weight I monitor myself. I monitor my kids diet with all natural junk food free regiment, which was some how frowned upon. DOn't know what more to change.
When I get a public defender he will know.

[jackiew75]

Its another case of the Oregon idiot farm! They closed our case too and then had one opened in NH with new allegations.

If I were you, I would sit down and write a letter to Gov. Ted Kulongowski... I seemed to make enough complaints to him that he actually had the Director of the Forensic Crime Lab at OSP write me a letter with all sorts of details about the case that the police did not want me to have. You can e-mail him I you want it to get through faster.

[good dad]

We are staying in criminal court as long as we go through the proective custody services by CPS. With them they are letting us call the shots with where we go and the like. As long as we meet their requirements they are happy.

If you enter into "protective services by CPS" your not calling the shots, CPS is..

They may make it sound good, but meeting their requirements will consist of an open CPS case...psych evals, counseling, parenting assessments, financial standing........ Any info revealed through this will be used to bring you further into their clutches and a stronger case against you..

Myself, I would say no to any services, stand your ground and fight the charges in criminal court, If you feel you have can beat the charges, a jury of your peers will probably side with you and it will end right there..

Your lawyer can file a "motion for limine" forcing Oregon workers to appear in your state to be cross examined( your lawyer can argue he can't cross-examine paperwork) or the judge will have to throw out Oregons paperwork

[good dad]

Jackie, I couldn't remember whose case it was with the "motion for limine" till I saw your post

[Frustrated]

Please, I cannot stress this enough, please do not sign Services as Good Dad makes a very, very good point. Once you sign the Services, You cannot call the shots, they do. That is the way how it works with them. Believe me. I had two Service Plans and I am screwed and I am STILL screwed. It has been on going 7 years now.

Do you want to go with them for 7 years, or 10 years or rest of the Children's lives? Or take your chances and beat the case and get it dismissed in Criminal Court and have NO involvement with CPS at all? That alone would end it right there.

I had one Case in Criminal Court for Assault and got it proven false and the Judge got it DISMISSED. CPS never came back that day. But with these Service Plans that I "supposedly" signed allows them to come back for more. That's the problem. (hint** Services signed can bound you into their clutches for however long they want it to be even though if the Criminal Case is dismissed, remember that).

Whose Lawyer that send you that letter? I never heard of that one before. What Requirements are the CPS talking about? What kind of Services are they talking about for you to take? You are Not calling the shots, believe me, they are. (*hint- it requires your signature).

No Medical Insurance? They can use that against you in Court. But if your Doctor say that your Kids are really healthy and blood work is excellent, then great. But you say the "previous" blood work shows malnutrion and stuff, they can use that against you.

How did they get a hold of the previous blood work? They are REQUIRED for you to SIGN MEDICAL RELEASE FORM!!! Did you sign any Medical Release form from CPS? Because if you didn't, then they must have gotten your blood work paper works illegally unless you volunteered them to them. I wouldn't sign the Medical Release to CPS if I were you, have the Judge order them instead. Beleive me, because if you release all the Medical Records to CPS, they can look at it and use anything in there against you. Any thing out of norm and twist it against you. Even use Broken Bones against you?

Let your Lawyer handle it. Do not work with CPS. I would much rather do it in Criminal Court and dismiss the Case than deal with these fake con artists that won't take "no" for an answer? They are that good at tricking People into Services by threats and whatnots. Yes, I mean "really good" at conning and making it sound so "sweet". That is why they said "you can call the shots" or "whatever you want"....etc...etc...don't believe that stuff. It is a ruse to get you to sign the Service Plan even though if the Criminal Case might get dismissed. You still has to report to CPS because of that Service Plan alone.

[jubilee]

I never HEARD of Charges being MAILED to YOU. Usually they have a Sheriff SERVER to SERVE YOU THE PAPERS, NOT MAILED. I have many Court experiences and got many papers SERVED to the other Person. It never can be MAILED.
.

The DA will often file charges before an investigation is completed.
They later drop the charges when they receive evidence indicating that there is no need for their office to pursue.

They are quite independant of DFS, and likely filed based on the report of the sherrif, which would only indicate the allegations, and NOT any evidence found by DFS during their investigation.

I had something similar happen to me about eight years ago.

I got a summons via mail from another county indicating that I was being charged with kidnapping.

The police received a false report, and sent a copy, as is usual business for them, to the DA office.

The DA office immediately scheduled a hearing for me and MAILED me notice.

Before the hearing date ever came up I gave info to the DA showing that this was a false report and they dropped the charges...thank God I had documentation to back it up, and I never had to appear in court even once because of that.

But in the mean time, while awaiting the hearing, the DA will THEN get copies of DFS reports etc and determine before the court date if they have a case or not. In part to proceed, or to ask that you plead to a lessor charge.

They FILE, and THEN look for evidence. Kinda messed up...seems like they should have evidence FIRST, and THEN file, but it doesn't work that way, they just file and then drop the charges if they don't have enough to convict.

You are all right though, she should get a lawyer and proceed based on his/her advice.

I just hope she doesn't get too worked up over this because my guess is that the charges will be dropped due to lack of evidence.

Betty

[Frustrated]

Yeah, it must be different where you live. It is stranger than the minute because it is not professional. My Lawyer had stated to me that the papers must be served to make sure the person got it, because the Mail can easily get lost. But then again, here maybe a bit different in Canada than USA.

You are right, they usually jump the wagon, like the wheel first before the wagon or something like that. It is not professional, but rather incomptent. Yes, usually they file then find evidence later. It is absurd.

You are also right, by the lack of evidence, the Case can be dropped and dismissed outright. Well it should be.

[ldsmama5]

Well it was fun today. I sat in a cell for 5 hours while they processed the booking paperwork. It was a book and release. I asked for a lawyer and they kept asking the questions so they violated law there. They also had another person there in for drug issues and they were not handcuffed which really made me mad. I wasn't even going to stay in jail like the rest. My husband was in and out in an hour but not me. the charges on him will be dropped. We also had a family meeting with DHS and they were thinking what do we do because they couldn't find anything wrong. So we asked to go to our churches social services and we were denied because they want to know every little thing. They also refused to inform us of our children's medical issues. It came up that one of our kids has a medical issue we had no idea about and that is why this is proceeding. They mentioned it could be diabetes but they refused to let me know. Their hieght and weigh were fine it was on a blood test the sheriff said we had to go and do in their clinic. So 4 kids were perfectly fine and one wasn't. But we are charged with 5 counts.
This was brought up by my kids lying to teachers. I switched their schools. They started the same lie at the new school and according to the schools records they have been caught so now I have evidence. My oldest is having body image issues with everything going on about her weight and what she eats and such. I have purposely tried to prevent this so I now have to watch her carefully for an eating disorder.
It is just mayhem. Anyhow I have now contacted the ACLU and in court on tuesday they better get me a lawyer like I requested.

[jackiew75]

I am trying to understand this but it makes no sense.... What the hell are these people thinking!!!

Have you been told who your attorney is? Do you know what the exact charges are and have you been given a court date? Are they filing this on behalf of Oregon? Sorry for all of the questions.

You need to contact your attorney ASAP and MAKE him file a motion for limine if they are filing this on behalf of Oregon. According to your 6th Amendment right, you have the right to address your accusors. Sadly for us, I dont think the judge is going to grant it because we are 3000 mile from that hell hole and the prosecutors here do not want to pay for "them" to come here for the adjudication hearing. Also, according to RSA 169 C, there is nothing in there that states telephonic testimony works against or for us... this is their argument. You are closer so this motion could work for you.

Why would they not disclose your childs medical finding? I believe, I could be mistaken, that this is your right. What happens if the child is diabetic and they are eating foods in your care that could make their insulin levels sky rocket? This is negligent on their part!

I am sorry to tell you that the ACLU will more than likely not become involved in your case. They wouldnt with mine BUT, I strongly encourage you to still try.

Where were the children while you were sitting in jail? Did they pull them in?

I am so sorry for what you are going through. Sit down tonight, and as hard as it may be, write down everything that was said and done and document it. I believe they have the right to question you even if you tell them you dont want to.... its when you ask for your attorney that they are supposed to stop. Did they record or video tape this with you?

You also need to get all of your childrens school records (copies) as well as medical records and your file from DHS/CW in Oregon. You have a right to these files. You still need to get in touch with Governor Ted Kulongowski and start blasting him. He did not personally respond to me but had someone type a letter relaying VERY important information about my case that the police did not want me to have.

Will your church rally around you? Right now, you will need all the help you can get. Make sure that your house is in order, that the children are going to school with full lunch boxes and you need to talk with your child/ren about why they are being dishonest and if they understand the consequences to these actions. I would also consider getting the children into counseling. I beat DHS to the punch on that one. I did not inform DHS that my daughter was going and then when it came out in court that she had gone, it only looked better for us.

Let me know if you need anything.

[momomma]

This was brought up by my kids lying to teachers. I switched their schools. They started the same lie at the new school and according to the schools records they have been caught so now I have evidence

You may have posted this and I missed it, but what did your kids tell the schools? Two different schools? And was it one child or all of them?

[ldsmama5]

I requesed a lawyer. We requested one when I was served. I requested one twice at the jail during booking. I also went down to the courthouse to equest the paperwork for a public defender and was turned down then. I know who it will be but he can't even see me without the paperwork for the public defender.
They havn't told me which kid specifically is sick or what was actually wrong. I never signed a medical release either.
They also never read us our maranda rights so I don't know if anything is admissable.The charges we have arn't clear either it says we are being charged with child abuse 3A. I have no clue what that is specifically but according to the charges from DHS it is for starvation that threatens the life of a child. I still have my children and they look fine, act fine and are of the proper height and weight.
We also have not signed any papers with DHS. These charges are not from Oregon but they are using Oregon's files to say that past behavior predicts future behavior even though Oregon's files are fiction.
Also what started this was that my older two who have reading issues didn't want to read in their special ed class so they told the teacher it is because they are too hungary because I don't feed them. This kept getting them out of their work so they kept doing it. I found out just yesterday that according to the records the school kept on them they said this daily for 3 months and we were never notified. Also they went to a charter school that didn't provide access to breakfast or lunches so even having them eat at school wasn't an option.
I was then told by the school that the kids arn't happy and that they didn't belong here so I transfered them but not before that teacher reported us and had my kids interviewed. She also did this without the principals knowledge because he was shocked.
I transfered them to a public school which has since really helped them alot acedemically. My kids eat breakfast andlinch at school, but they continued to complain to teachers that I refuse to feed them breakfast and they can't do their work because they are starving. Instead of calling CPS they contacted our bishop to talk to us. So he talked to me and I put a stop to this at the school because the kids were purposly not eating a school to get attention.
Our bishop is also helping us as an advocate as well as several others at church. One of which is a county commissioner who knows several things were done illegally to us and he is using his power to help as he can. He also is helping us figure this whole thing out.
When I was booked my kids were with my husband. He did his book and release in the morning while I watched the kids. It only took him an hour. He wasn't handcuffed or placed in a cell or anything. It doesn't make sense why to took 5 hours and I had to go through all that. I couldn't record the booking because they took everything away from me right down to earrings and wedding band. They took my shoes, belt, drivers license and keys. I couldn't even keep the change in my pocket.
This was only 2 kids saying this. The other three were not in on this but as far as DHS is willling to say to us it is one of the younge ones they say has a medical issue and not the older ones but I am being charged with all five. DHS has been pulled into this by the DA filing charges. We had the family meeting and one comment that was said and recorded was by the new worker not understanding why this was here to waste his time.
I have the kids starting therapy soon so hopefully that will help with the kdishonesty part but also my oldest is having body image issues I need to head away before it becomes a full on eating disorder. Because of the DHS and court issues surrounding her weight and clothing sizes she is asking if she is too fat or thin and which is he best diet and exercises and such. I didn't think I would be dealing wih this. She has been under so much stress in not being able to take back the lie she told she was throwing up and everything. I now have her starting to eat but I had to basically start from scratch that she has to eat and as long as she eats her fruits and veggies and plays outside regularly she is fine. I am waiting for therapy to start as this is out of hand.

[Frustrated]

I would request ALL School Records to give to your Lawyer. It almost sound like it is the School's fault for not following through such as notifiying you. They never notified you to address their so called "Concerns" regarding their eating habits. Especially when there are breakfasts and Lunches Program at School, they should be eating. Lawyer can request who ever supervises the Eating area to testify whether they are eating or throwing away food in the garbage.

I have seen Kids at School constantly throwing Food in the Garbage, especially a really good Apple, Peanut Butter Sandwiches, all thrown in Garbages because they didn't like it. When they don't eat, and throw in the trash and we get blamed for it? If some one at the School see Food Dumped in the garbage, they are as much fault for not notifiying Parents that their Kids aren't eating.

Since they did not notify you, then there is a liability that lies with the School. If you have proof with a Document or a Witness from the School, you might have a Case.

Now, about Therapy, you need to request Private Counselling/Therapy for all of your Kids. Do not get Counselling or Therapy from CPS. Maybe the Private Counsellor will find out that one of your Kids has Bulimina. (Throwing up of Food and resist of eating foods sounds like Bulimia). Find out from Family Doctor if your Kid indeed have Bulimia. I would take them all back to Family Doctor and have Blood Work re-done and to make sure that they are within health limits according to their Weight/Height. I would use the Medical Records for your Case with your Lawyer. It will show that your Kids are healthy but one has an eating disorder.

I can't believe they used "Future Risk of Harm" Against you from another State. It is unbelievable. If that Case in another State is unproven, then they can't use that against you in that State. It is really crazy.

What you need is really a Good Lawyer and have your Chances in Criminal Court and have that Case dropped and dismissed due to lack of evidence.

[jackiew75]

Amazing.... starvation yet they are all the right height and weight. As far as I can tell, they do not have a case.

You need to contact the school and get letters stating that your children get breakfast and lunch. Have you signed them up for free or reduced breakfast and lunch? If so, the nurse at the school generally has to keep a copy of the application. This would also be helpful.

Obviously if you still have custody of your children, this is a very good sign.

The part about the attorney, this is normal. If we did not hire an attorney (one for each of us) than we would have been given our public defender THE DAY OF THE PRELIMINARY HEARING! This is how they really like to stick it you know where. How does someone go in and fight for your rights when you only can speak to them right before the court hearing? This is how they do it.... without giving the parents an opportunity to defend themselves.

When is your hearing?

[ldsmama5]

I got a public defender today and he is very good from what I see. I saw him do 10 different hearings before mine. He got the paperwork on what the charges were as we were on the stand. He looked at them and looked at me and immediately said we are going to preliminary in 3 weeks. The judge is one that listens too. he was purplexed because they are not charging us with the food issue or the malnutrition issue. They are charging us with actual physical abuse which CPS never even brought up and is not even looking at. He was shocked that they would bring up these charges but we still have the kids, no bond, no bail, no detainment, and we arn't declaired a danger to them. The DA said he just got this on the desk today and the DA that is prosecuting this never even showed up. I was so scared and my attourney just said it is ok and not to worry. I also had 6 people in court with me on my behalf even though this was just supposed to be an arraignment and it didn't even get that far.
My husband has even worse stuff. Same charges but his attourney was like. Oh I will see you a few minutes before preliminary and that is it. He said no way and demanded an appointment with her before. So hopefully he gets his appointment. They gave us separate lawyers even though it didn't matter to us.
I have a good feeling.
It was just something else that the prosecution didn't even ask us to do anything which I think is wierd because don't they always ask for something.
I don't know why they would charge physical abuse when I am even too scared to spank our kids because of the risk of getting charged like this.
By the way they think this stands on its own merits. This is a case only focusing on here but the charges were brought up because they pulled records from Oregon and thought oh a pattern. They can't use oregons records and it isn't on Oregons behalf. Basically what is being said is that if oregon has a crime they have to deal wih it themselves.
The scarry thing is the level of charges are much more than anyone else that was sentanced today and it carries a tough penalty.I think that what helps is that we were professional and took it seriously and the judge appreciated it and will be much more openminded and take the evidence for what it is worth.
I think this will go well for us and I have decided that instead of praying for this to be over I am praying for softened hearts, logical minds, and for truth to prevail.

[jackiew75]

You each received your own attorney because otherwise, it would be a conflict of interest in the event either parent accused the other of the allegations. Confusing, I know.... but everyone needs to feed of something in this vicious cycle.

When you go to the pre hearing, your lawyer needs to find out which laws they are going on... Oregons or your current state. It could make a big difference. It also doesnt matter that this was an Oregon matter. Fact is, you left the state and carried this over to where you are at now.

I can give you more info on our court hearing yesterday, but it is not something I am willing to do over the computer. Let me know.

[ldsmama5]

Well here is an update and a bit of a shocker!
I went to see my lawyer yesterday and he is even confused about what they are actually saying we did!
Anyhow the bulk of what they ae claiming is they are charging is basically with a failure to protect. Failing to protect my 6 yr old from getting a black eye from my 8 y old. Yeah if your kids fight you can be cahrged. It is a strech and he thinks this is misuse of the law so it could be thrown out but he is now having to file to find out if it was that, which is what all the tanscripts and stuff are from, or if they say I starved my kids, impossible.

Good news is that our local legislature is passing a bill to prohibit police and social workers from recording and even interviewing kids without parental consent because children are too young to give consent.
That is great and it could effect my case as they recorded my 6 yr old in december and never told me.

[Frustrated]

.

Good news is that our local legislature is passing a bill to prohibit police and social workers from recording and even interviewing kids without parental consent because children are too young to give consent.
That is great and it could effect my case as they recorded my 6 yr old in december and never told me.

Is there a Bill that is presently on the Capitol Hill or did they pass it already? If so, please show us the actual Bill. I would love Americans use that Right for their Children while interviewing them.

[ldsmama5]

This is only through our state legislature but look for this in other states. I just hope it will become a trend and other states will pass a similar law!

[jackiew75]

This is only through our state legislature but look for this in other states. I just hope it will become a trend and other states will pass a similar law!

I hate to be the pessimist but CPS and the police departments will find a way around this one too.

Since when do they abide by any of ours or our children's constitutional rights now? I can see it now, "We had to interview the children without parental consent because the children were in imminent danger".. blah blah blah

[Frustrated]

This is only through our state legislature but look for this in other states. I just hope it will become a trend and other states will pass a similar law!

I hate to be the pessimist but CPS and the police departments will find a way around this one too.

Since when do they abide by any of ours or our children's constitutional rights now? I can see it now, "We had to interview the children without parental consent because the children were in imminent danger".. blah blah blah

True....they ALWAYS FIND A WAY...no matter how scheme or tricks they may pull, but they always find a way. Right now it is so easy to interview the Kids right at School without Parents even knowing about it. How is that imminet danger if the Kids were all happy and doing just fine at School?

We all have to prove that Imminent Danger does not exist when it comes to these Parents.