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I don't understand this system

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:39 pm
by ldsmama5
I don't understand this system at all. In criminal court they just shake their head and the judge doesn't understand any of this stuff they have brought against us.
Almost all of which is from CPS in Oregon not in my current state. We will be going to a jury trial in April on that. I am very confident since we never did anything.
But I am confused on Juvenile court. The judge is much harsher and I don't understand the people. The person that filed everything in juvenile never showed up for court but had a colleague come instead. Also they appointed a guardian ad litem. I don't understand their role in this. They want to come over to my home too. Our lawyers say we are going to mediation on this. They are trying to get Oregons stuff thrown out also but here they are saying that every call made to them, even if maliciously due to neighbor disputes and lawsuits, are documented as if we went to court but we never went to court.
We have alot of support from our church, neighbors, friends, and other community members including a county commissioner. They have come to court in support of us every time. One of them with some clout actually said this is all from an issue here but none of that was presented so far only Oregon stuff.
What is the guardian ad litem? What is their job and since they sit on the same side of the courtroom as the social workers are they helping social workers or are they for my children? Do they have to visit my home like a social worker?
What can I do to help my lawyers work? We can't think of much more to do.
Thanks for all your help.

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:23 pm
by Marina
I went through all your previous posts. I couldn't find anything about what state you are in now.

Here is the Child Welfare Information Gateway

and the State Statutes Search. ... /index.cfm

Do a search for Guardian Ad Litum on the Child Welfare site, and also on your state government's websits.

Is the Guardian Ad Litum through the criminal court or the juvenile court?

Do you, the parents, have a lawyer for juvenile court also? If so, is it the same as the ones for criminal court?

Have you had any hearings in juvenile court?

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:18 am
by lostintranslation
Where I am, the GAL that was assigned to my daughter is representing her rights in the criminal case/courtroom against my ex-husband. I didn't know there was a GAL assigned to my daughter until she told me that this lawyer person came to see her at school. She said it was, 'the GAL that is watching over daddy's case'. I got confused so I did call her (she gave her contact information to my daughter to give to me). In this situation, the GAL had asked my daughter: What do you want to see happen to your father? Would you be willing to testify in court as to what happened? Do you want to see your father in a protected supervised setting? Do you want any sort of contact with him? Are you happy living at your mom's house? Do you feel safe there? What does your mom say about all this that has been going on? Is she supportive of you?

The GAL my boys had in FAMILY COURT was a bit more harsh but still pretty good. And yes, that GAL sat with the social worker and the state attorney in court. The reason for that is that 'table' is for the children's representation.

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:52 am
by Frustrated
Nothing like a bunch of Friends supporting each other including the Judge. They are all in this together all bounded against you. The "table" is where they usually have coffees together and talk about your Case before the Court begins. I have seen them down in the basement talking to the Attorney and I have seen them talking together in Restaurants, Meeting Rooms discussing "your case" or other "Family Cases". What I don't like is seeing them laughing about it and making jokes about it. All they talk about was funding, Services and what nots. They got their Judge embedded in their pockets and tightly. Every Recommendations go through the Judge were always passed. Almost every time.

Well I am not laughing. Everyone who are ruined by them should not be laughing, and they should not be laughing pointing fingers at you. But then again, whoever goes to Court full of lies, and would lie in Court, will have to pay the Consquences. The truth always come out. When they get shown the truth, and when the truth comes out, they would have to admit their mistakes and faults. An Embarrasement to the Courts.

Then that is when I will be laughing. Like they always used to say "What goes around, always comes back and haunt them". It almost always does anyways. :wink:

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:32 am
by lostintranslation
That may be true about alot of GALS involved in cps cases. However, my sons' GAL, although a bit harsh, was always on the side of quick reunification. He said almost immediately that it was in the best interest of the children to be returned. With him, the judge and the fact that all our documents were excepted by the court, it was very helpful getting our boys back in a very short (comparitivly speaking) time. A good GAL will look only at the best interest of the children even if it goes against what cps says or suggests.

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:52 am
by Bob_Lynn
lostintranslation wrote:A good GAL will look only at the best interest of the children even if it goes against what cps says or suggests.

Just like a good court appointed attorney who truly tries to protect the rights of his/her client, a good GAL who truly protects the best interest of the child and family is rare and often doesn't last long if and when they go up against CPS. In general, none of these state actors focus on protecting children and preserving families, their primary objective is the bottom line.

In our case, the GAL for our sons and the other GAL for our granddaughter both did exactly the same thing, nothing whatsoever, sat there like 2 lumps, earning a paycheck for showing up in court. In Pennsylvania, the law is very specific, GALs have 8 mandated tasks and functions they must perform. These 2 useless creatures didn't do even one (yawning and filling out a form to request compensation are not one of those 8 mandated tasks). Worse, the courts unconstitutionally give GALs absolute immunity. In Pennsylvania, GALs must be attorneys and attorneys all take the Oath of Office. Violating the Oath of Office is treason and cause for impeachment and criminal prosecution according to the Constitution. Absolute immunity is unconstitutional as it violates the First Amendment right to redress.

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:34 pm
by katgotsteve
i dont understand the system either, but i dont think the people that work for the system do either.
my children were taken in aug and returned in oct, with the stipulation that my husband leave. he left, we were told after a psychosexual he would probably return. well, that didnt happen he wasnt even allowed phone calls or visits for 3 months. now he has supervised visits, but no phone calls or other contact. well he started a job in jan and could not take off during normal business hours. needless to say i showed my tail. i no one would listen, so i went to our little community forum and started posting on there. within two hours i had the cps supervisor working my case and after hours visitation once a week. i have also gotten our governor and state dhr office involved, along with several other agencies i wrote who have now sent my letter to the dhr office. i was told by a worker from a third party agency that someone will definately pay attention now. she wrote a report to me about my family and husband that was in favor of us. she did a month's worth of research talked to about 100 people and read official documents. dfacs wanted to make it disappear, well we have it now. i have gone to court two times in the past two weeks and both times they have postponed it. i am started to get ill, but i was told to be good.
i have accused them publically now of parental alienation, that got alot of attention in this little ole community we live.
i guess what i am trying to say about fighting them is that we need to stand together as a group so when one person falters, we can pick them back up and push even harder. i have started taking calls from other families in my community and supporting them. i am thinking about starting a little support group. how do you think they will like it if i run an ad in the paper that says, are you having problems with DFACS? do you feel like you are being wronged by the system? please call me at ******** and see if we can help each didnt like me posting on a forum, i wonder if they would try to stop me...

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:15 pm
by Trisha G
GALs in our case seem useless. In the first CHINS case Candace spoke to the kids twice, once at our home and once a week later she took them out for milkshakes. In this case the kids were removed from our home four weeks ago, her husband John was appointed their GAL and he hadn't spoken to them once as of last week. I called the office and complained, there's supposed to have been a new one assigned who will have talked to the kids by the end of the week. I was told by the woman who runs the office "it's my understanding that the're in a safe place". To me that's not the point, since a GAL is supposed to speak for the kids, he or whoever is taking his place should have talked to them by now.

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:29 pm
by ldsmama5
Yeah this GAL was very "familiar" with the prosecution. They stayed and chatted. Ou attournies are the same for juvenile and criminal. The social workers arn't even asking fo kids to be removed either. Makes you wonder why they are pushing this. According to court documents the only things they are using are from Oregon not here.
Criminal stuff will be eiher dropped or go to trial. If it goes to trial we will be found innocent especially since their evidence hinges on things from Oregon and a medical report they can't seem to produce to my attorney.
They are pushing stuff out so far though. Another month for juvenile and another 2 months for criminal.
GAL hasn't made contact and neither has social workers.

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:04 am
by Gary Shaw
Understanding CPS is much like understanding a Stephen King novel. They are beyond the bounds of common sense. To help understand them you may want to look at some of the training literature and media developed by the Child Welfare League of America at This organization has over 900 "Agency" members and apparently provides most of the training media used to train case workers and staff. The opinated pyscho-babble crap is beyond belief.

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:31 pm
by Frustrated
I'd say bring it on. I would prefer the case in Criminal Court. This way the Evidence can be shown throughly. Most chance they won't even go there.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:01 am
by katgotsteve
that is what so sad about it all frustrated, cps definitions of abuse and criminal defininations of abuse are two different horses. one horse says any marks are abuse the other horse says there has be a criminal intent to cause marks before we can pursue the charges.
i am saying that all parents who leave marks on their child are not abusers, no, but the few who are have made it hard for the rest of us. parents are people we make mistakes, should our mistakes be amplified 100 times and put us on display as martars for a cause or an agency to say, hey we got this abuser, no it should not happen like this.
our child should not be taken from a good home and put in to foster care, lets face it, even if you hoard things, dont wash the dishes, yell at your child occassionally, that still does not make you a bad parent, nor does it make the state more capable of caring for your child. they forget the last thing, "YOUR CHILD".
I have always said this and i told the judge this last time i was in court, "NO TAKES CARE OF YOUR KIDS LIKE MAMA CAN"
regardless of anything, we know our kids, but we all have flaws and these agencies often take advantage of our lack of education, our lack of good parent skills, just lack of understanding of what is happening to us or a mental disability like bipolar. we all learn our parenting skills from our parents, we either learn what to do or not to do, so does that mean that everyone needs there kids taken away from then, no what it does mean is that the state should take the budget they have for foster children and provide better education to children in lower grades up to high school about caring for themselves and the possiblity of caring for children and help, not hurt, should be offerred to parents who break these rules set forth by dfacs. we as a public should be made aware of what guidelines dfacs or cps has set forth so we are not blind sided when break these rules and are forced to find out the hard way. when a law is made the public is made aware, then why is it when dfacs changes policy or rules, they dont notify the public? why is that each state have their own rules, then each district makes their own rules and then each county makes their set of rules? why cant one set of rules apply? how can the juvenile justice system tap dance on our constitutional rights to fair trail?
a million questions and i will tell you that no one can answer these, i know i have asked.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:36 am
by Frustrated

I agree with you completely. It is not all about the Abuse and any Marks anymore. They don't even go on Marks anymore. In fact, they are recreating non-existant cases which are invisible. Did you know they went against us for Emotional Harm? Just when they have nothing else to go on, they use that one. It is almost having an invisibility Case. The one that no one can really see, and does not exist, more like hot air. When they bring cases that means nothing, they will do their efforts not to bring the Cases to Court. Don't you find that odd? They threaten you so you won't bring it up to Court. If the Case is as absurd as you think, you should bring it to Court and make it laughable to them. The Judge will think why CPS even bring up invisbile cases that does not exist because the Children has no marks, no abuse, no neglect, so they go on almost virtually nothing. :roll: In fact these such cases should not have been processed and investigated, and should have been declared "unfounded" and close its Case. Why even go further for? CPS has their own investments which are the fundings to generate for their Organization. Generate Services and keep it flowing. That's why. Once it stops and the funds will stop. They can't have that so they go after Families and point the fingers as much as they can get. Just like the Gespato. A Collection Agency of Children to generate funds. That is all what it is.