PLEASE GIVE US ANY ADVICE THAT YOU HAVE!!

Are you going through an investigation now? Tell your story and get feedback here.

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SADMOMMIE
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Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:22 pm

PLEASE GIVE US ANY ADVICE THAT YOU HAVE!!

Postby SADMOMMIE » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:15 pm

Hello,
I am new to the message board and would like to explain our current ordeal with CPS to see if anyone can offer any advice. My children were sheltered on 09/20/06 after a CPS worker interviewed my seven year old son based on a report that was made to the child abuse hotline that he had "several old and unexplained scars on his back." I was in shock when the CPS worker told me that she would be removing both of my children, my sven year old son and my two month old son, from the home based on this allegation. When intially interviewed at his school, my son supposedly told this CPS worker and an officer that it was his stepfather, my husband, that had hit him with a "wire card." The policer officer then asked him if he meant electrical cord and he said yes. After this, my seven year old was taken to be examined by a CPT nurse where he then supposedly stated that it was me that hit him with a wire cord. I say supposedly in these sentences because I know my child and I kow that he would have never said such things. The CPS worker came to our home and interviewed me and my husband. Our home was immaculately clean and there were no signs of abuse or negelct found on our infant. Yet both children were still sheltered based on this allegation. The inital rport was made to the abuse hotline on 9/8/06 after I took my seven year old in to his regular pediatrician for a yealry physical. There was a new nurse working there and I can only assume that she felt the need to report these old scars based on a state mandated reporting law for all physicians. This was the same doctor's office that my son had been seen at for the last four years. The following day my son left to go and reside with his bio father in Louisiana. This was a change in residnece that had been in the works for months and was the reason for his visit to the doctor on 9/7/06 to obtain an updated physical for school transfer. The living arrangements and agreements that I had made with my seven year old's father were not being meet and on 9/16/06, I traveled to Louisiana to bring my son back to Florida to reside with me and my husband. CPS was at our home 4 days later to say that they were investigating this allegation of abuse. Why did they not attempt to investigate during the week that he was to Lousiana? Is it because they were trying to obtain an interview with him without us knowing? I think so becasue that is exactaly what they did. The children were initially placed with my sister, their maternal aunt, at the shelter hearing but after an unjust shelter reveiw were removed from her home because the judge felt that there was a serious conflict on interest with this placement. You see my sister works for this agency and the judge decided that due to her frequent contact with my seven year old she must have known about these scars and as a mandated reported she should have reported them. THIS IS ABSURD!! :shock: The children were subsequently placed in a foster home where our two month old was so severly neglected that he developed open sores under his neck, underarms and in the folds of all his skin from a lack of being cleaned and regularly bathed. He was severly congested and was having a hard time even breathing. We asked if and when the baby would be taken to the doctor and were assured by the CPS worker that it would be the next day. The baby was not taken in for a doctor's visit until 4 days later at which point he had developed bronchitis and was placed on a nebulizer with treatments 4 times a day. We hired a private attorney and made a report of neglect against DCF. Only then did our real troubles begin. On 9/29/06 we were served with the petition for adjudication. After reading the numerous lies and half truths in this sworn document, we became angry and disgusted with a system that would lie to build a case against two hard working law abiding citizens. The petition not only realleged the statements that we were supposedly made by my seven year old, but now there were new allegations that on the day the CPS worker and officer searched our home they noted a strong smell of marijuana. WHAT? :shock: This was the first time that we had ever heard anything about this nonsense and there was no mention of this on 9/20/06 by the CPS worker or the officer who accompanied her to our home. This statement was also not included in the original probable cause statement given to the courts. On 10/16/06, with the help of our attorney we had a 6 hour dispositon of the CPS worker and proved her to be the lying manipulator that she was. I am glad to say that one week later this CPS worker resigned from DCF. Again we felt the backlash of our victory against this department. On 10/29/06 I was contacted by my attorney and was told that I needed to go and turn myself in as the investigating detective had decided to charge me with child abuse. I surrended myself to the police and was released from jail on an ROR bond. The criminal case was not formerly filed until 1/29/07 and I hired a separate criminal attorney for this case. This case does not worry me nearly as much as the juvenile case. I know that the criminal case will have to be proven beyond a resposible doubt and that doubt alreadry exists in the inconsistent statements that have been made by my seven year old. The juvenile case has me very concerned because I know that the judge only needs a preponderence of doubt to adjudicate the children dependent. We have a mediation set for this Thursday 2/22/07 and our dependency trial is set for 2/26/07. We have not finalized a case plan yet and all the referrals that I have completed were done a voluntary basis. We have denied these allegations and in the past were refusing to comply with any of the referrals given. I started to do some of the referrals in January just so that I can be able to tell the mediator and the judge that we are willing to comply with some of the referrals but will not submit to some of the absurdities that these agencies want us to do. I have completed a physosocial assesment and drug screening and was not referred for any further services. I am 6 weeks into a 12 week anger management class. DCF also wants us to complete an evaluation for domestic violence based on an arrest of me and my husband in 2002. We have admitted that this was a yelling match that got out of hand where a neighbor in the apartment next door called the police. We both deny that there was ever any violence committed against the other and the charges were never prosecuted. I have contacted the state legislator's office and the governor's office and have actually received phonecalls and emails back from both. I am only doing the referrals at this point because I don't want my children trapped in this system any longer than they have to be. If it takes me participating in unwarranted activities then I am willing to bend a little. What I will not do is simply give in and lie down while these people who swear to have "the best interest of the children" in mind ruin our family. They seem to no longer be targeting my husband and have moved their complete focus to me as the perpertrator of the alleged abuse. I feel that this is only because I have become the mouthpiece for this family and I won't comform to their definition of a parent that is usually involved in this unjust system. I am not a drug addict, do not drink and I have a very successful career. They have failed to mention anywhere in their filings with the court that my seven year spends summer and holiday vacations with his father and that on the day that they allege that this abuse occurred that he was with his father. I do believe that my son's bio father may have hit him and made these scars but I have no proof or no way of even knowing when it happened. His bio father was arrested on 2/8/07 for second degree murder in Louisiana! I think that this is the person that they should have investigated but they did not even do due diligence to locate him. They have alleged that the abuse happened on 9/7/06 but this is ridiculous seeing as how the report stated that these were old scars! I don't know what else there is that we can be doing but if anyone has any advice or comments, I am open to hearing them.

Harlan Carroll
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Postby Harlan Carroll » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:15 am

If you don't have a lawyer now, get one. You're out of your depth if you try to deal with CPS alone.

And if you truly are innocent of the things they are accusing you of, you need to write down ever instance of an untrue accusation, and document your response to every claim. Then you need to go over it ALL with your lawyer, point by point, until he or she understands everything.

Then your lawyer needs to request the case file and go over it with you, so that you can look at it, too. In my case I was able to spot quite a few errors on the part of CPS and go over them with my lawyer(s).

Also, at the next permenancy hearing you have (or whatever type you have) you need to have your lawyer bring up these issues in front of the judge, and point out the inconsistencies on the part of CPS, as well as the errors they made.

But you have to prioritize what you want to say, in order of importance. The most important things you want to say has to be at the beginning, to keep the judge interested in what you and/or your lawyer have to say.

In my experience with judges, particularly in a "cluster court" system, is that it's like an assembly line, and the family court is trying to get through as many cases as possible in the alloted time for the day. So there is a tendency for the judge to want you to hurry. But the bottom line is what you want to say is important and it needs to be said.

Also, you need to make sure your lawyer submits some or all of your objections and corrections to CPS's claims BEFORE the hearing. That way what you want to say will to some extent already be reviewed by the judge. Or he/she might have your paperwork in front of him so he can review it while you talk. It would also help if your objections/corrections form is in the same order as what you want to say, although you might improvise if you bring up more than what's listed in the form.

Anyhow I wish you luck. It's hard fighting CPS. They want you to cooperate with them, not fight with them. But if they are actively trying to take your children away, you have to realize that cooperation is a two-way street. And if they are not willing to work with you to get your children back, then they should not expect you to help them separate your family further. I know this from first-hand experience in my case.

SADMOMMIE
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Postby SADMOMMIE » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:57 am

We enetered a motion for discovery back at the beginning of October 2006 and were only give certain documents from DCF. We have since requested all of our file that contains any information that these agencies haver pertaining to our case. We hired an attorney back in September 2006 and he has been witness to various lies and inconsistencies with the individuals involved in our case. It was with his help that we disposed the CPS worker who one week later resigns form her position and has even moved out of state. These people seem unwilling to budge and are so intent on punishing us for something that WE DID NOT do that they are willing to let bour children suffer the consequences of their actions. My seven year old is currently in a group home and the baby, now seven months old, is in a foster home. Both children are shells of their former selves. I knew that when we started this fight with CPS that it wouldn't be easy but I never expected these people to lie and mislead the court to carry out their objectives.

thiasmommy
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Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:58 pm

help

Postby thiasmommy » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:03 am

Hi,

I'm sorry to hear about your ordeal with these sicko's. When I started reading your story I knew you were in Florida, These people are ruthless and will drag u thru the mud at all costs to prove they are right!

Keep fighting, I did, But I will tell you they dragged me thru this crap for over 2 years. I have a great attorney if you need the name just pm me.
If you need any help feel free to ask


God Bless
Dennise

SADMOMMIE
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Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:22 pm

Postby SADMOMMIE » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:43 pm

Denise,

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I :) know that my post was really long but I wanted to give as many details as I could about our case and I still didn't include everything. I will continue to fight the GESTAPO :twisted: and will pray for a speedy and safe return of my children. I think that this message board is a great resource to vent your frustrations and seek guidance from people involved in the same horrific family crisis that these agencies have created.

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katgotsteve
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Location: Georgia

Postby katgotsteve » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:50 am

sadmommie
i feel for you. i live in georgia and i am experiencing a system gone wrong. the reason they will not back down is because they will have to admit that they employed a person who lied to gain custody of children. gary shaw has summed it up to in a statement, if dcf were an animal, they would eat their young. they turn on foster parents, they turn on their employees, they turn on law enforcement. all it becomes is the pass of the buck and cover their own butts. so for them to admit they were wrong, they would have to take responsibility for being wrong, you might as well fight becuase they wont back down. also, please find out if you can record a conversation without consent. in georgia, i can. trust me i have many conversations that they wish would not have happened now. i had my case worker changed too, i have the dfacs supervisor on my case and i am her only case. i have got the govern, state dhr office, casa, rep, senators, you name it i have written a letter to them. after contacting the governors office, i was given a few more names and info to contact.
i say fight, they have to prove it. do they have the cord that you beat him with? what about forsenics? i mean it is sad that your son has these marks, if they are old how can they give a date? have you seen them before? what did your son tell you about them? also, talk to someone about perpertator substitution, children often protect the abuser, so he maybe protecting your husband. since your husband has a violent past/present than it should work in your favor. get the dates up that your son was with him. also, try to figure out the date that you noticed the scar. exactly how big of a scar is it?

SADMOMMIE
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Postby SADMOMMIE » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:03 pm

I have given them the information for my ex who is my seven year old son's father, thank God he wasn't my husband, but they have failed to investigate him. They don't have any cord that I supposedly hit him with and my son supposedly said that the cord came from the tv in his room. He does not have a tv in his room! They do not have a date that this occurred and all that their examination notes of my son stated was that these were old scars. I had told the CPS worker that the first time that I was made aware of these scars were at a doctor's visit and when I questioned my son he was first reluctant to tell me and then said that he didn't know how he got them. I think that he is fearful of telling me where they came from. My son bathes and dresses himself, and has been doing so for the past year and a half, so I wouldn't have known about the scars unless he came and told me which he didn't. I just really can't believe that this can happen to someone here in America. My son has told me that certain people have told him what to say about his back. I have told him not to worry that Moommie is not mad at him and to just tell the truth. We haven't had an opportunity to dispose my son yet and DCF is fighting our request to to so. I am sure that once disposed my son will either tell the truth or tell or attorney that I have never hit him with anything other than a belt or an open hand on the bottom.

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katgotsteve
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Postby katgotsteve » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:48 am

this happens in america all the time....i am dealing with it. my story is about the alleged sexual abuse of my mental ill niece by my husband. she lived with us after her mom and stepfather were sent to prison for manufacturing meth out of their home. she has accused so many people of sexually abusing her in the past that it is really funny, the only one they want to pursue is my husband and she gives no details to for us to fight. but my fight is more with a judge who automatically wants me to divorce my husband. no criminal charges, nothing but the slow wheels of the juvenile justice system, but i have choosen to fight. i have my daughter and my youngest niece back, but my husband has not been allowed to come home regardless of the fact that these allegations cannot be proven. regardless that my niece's story has changed from day to day...it changes by who she talks to. she has even taken on parts of other people's lives in her story. her half sister this year claimed sexual abuse against the paternal grandfather, her story and my niece's story are similar except for a few details. now my niece claims she was beat with a horse whip, this story comes from a cousin who had her mom investigated for the same thing. so tell me is dfacs that stupid not to see the facts....
yes they are, or they just dont care. this child has publically masturbated since age 4, she has had psychological exams every years since she was 5, we did not get custody until she was 8, and all this behavior was here prior to that, dfacs removed her and put her in foster care for months and had to deal with it. now it is our fault, they make out that we caused this behavior, that my husband's sexual abuse is the reason for all this. well excuse, she was off the wall before. dfacs hired a third party to come in and a finding of facts, well that therapist observed my kids, me, my husband and a collegue observed my niece. she went to the school, read records, read dfacs files on the paternal side. she found that when my niece's half sister was 3 she was infected with herpes on a weekend visit with her father. this half sister was 3 years older than my niece. so that means that my niece was forced to live with this man for 4 years after he was to have alleged to have given her herpes. ok, to add all this up, this same man in 1997 raped my little brother at knife point, yet his daughters were allowed to stay with him. for over a year before he went to trail. my sister and my niece who was 3 at the time, accused my brother of molesting her, my niece. my brother was only 14 at the time. then my niece, my sister and her husband moved in with his father, this is the same father who has been accused of molesting the granddaughter last year, but he has been accused by a niece in the past also. so she found all this out, in her file she has found nothing to suggest that the abuse took place and there are alot of alarms on the paternal side of my niece's family, but she found no red flags or alarms on our side.
dfacs wanted to forget that report. in fact, i had to beg that my niece get tested for herpes. it took them 4 weeks to test her and that was because my mom had to ask. i get no say so about it, but i really dont care to have one. my niece has hurt me, it is not just this, it is the 4 years of living with her. not a day of peace. no on at dfacs knows what it is like to wake up in the middle of the night and have a child standing over you, or hear her roaming the floor at night eating constantly or to fear for the other kids in your home. no they dont. but now all this even though they were in and out of my home and my niece was in and out of counseling, it is our fault. i know i have gone off on a rampage, but yes sad mommie it is shame that all this happens, but it has happened to so many people and if we dont fight them, it will happen again.
we have to fix this problem. all the hate and anger we fill needs to redirected at fixing the solution, so that we and others like us dont have to live this again. so that cps can focus on the mothers and fathers who do need help, and help them not hurt them even worse. think of all the children with emotional problems becuase they were removed from their home. we need to stop this abuse.

trappedinwreakage
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Postby trappedinwreakage » Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:12 pm

** Im a male - registered abuser **

In my opinion, what so many fail to recognize at the onset of a CPS "intervention" is that there is big bucks in this. First its another paying case for the "legal gaurdian" which more than explains thier aggressive behavior we all have witnessed, then its another paying case for the court appointed attornies or an independant if you chose (same country club). Then its another paying case for the lawyers supporting CPS againts the parents. Its another butt filling a chair at the mandatory services they shove down our throats. In NY state its 17% of the parents income for the foster homes and what ever justification they have. Its a way for CPS and family court to justify their jobs, it makes them feel needed and important in society. But more importantly its building their annual record for the end of the fiscal year review. If we are a highly sucessful department we will get more allocated funding and we will have growth.

Around here most of the people involved with CPS and family court have never had children and seem to be acting out their own personal aggressions and motives on unsuspecting parents. We enter into this thing trying to be positive, honest, helpful, corporative and find the more we give the more they run with it.

We walk into "meetings" with our hearts in our hands and our pride on our sleeve as everything we have worked so hard at for years is being undermined and tossed in the garbage. We come to get somewhere and deal with the situation quickly to stop the destruction, only to sit down and be bombarded with false allegations and the truth that we told has been streached and twisted so far out of wack it almost incites violence (at least at times I struggled to maintain composure). This is all part of their game. I know people they pushed over the edge whos reaction lost thier children for good. This is part of the master plan.

It justifies their jobs

problem is they forget their job is

child protection not family destruction

somehow they seem to forget that these words: child and family go together

they also seem to forget that they are publicly paid servants and their job is to serve and protect the public, which they do not do by their actions ........... but those of us who have been there for awhile realize this. Its those poor suckers stepping up to the plate for a fair game the first time that get the old knuckle pitch and have no idea the ride their life and family is in for. In many cases it takes years for the full effect to sink home.

They have much to be proud of .......... No ?

In retrospect of my case, which I refused a lawyer and any and all of their "programs". I am a man of strong values and will stand my ground on my beliefs and stand firmly, those involved hated this. I am just the kind of man these types hate, one that will not cave. Its funny we live in the same spirit that built America decades and centuries ago, now today we are mostly hated. They were told the day after what the entire deal was and from that point on I felt there was nothing further to discuss. I had a teenager and only one so had little to loose, as in I knew the damage we would suffer there was no stopping anyhow and by the time it was over she ould be nearly out of the house. Im glad it was at this age too, I cant imagine those of you with larger familys of young ones. Caution: be prepared for the teenage years, CPS is already implanting information and ideas in their heads, if you dont give your children what they want when they become teens you will be seeing these people again.

anyhow in retrospect I would still not get a lawyer. I would push for the case to go to trial, swiftly. And I would question all the CPS workers and the legal guardian as to whether they had raised children, what the basis of all their allegations were, where was the proof, show us the proof now !, what are your objectives and motivations in this case.

I would still loose the case, I knew it was lost anyhow and no one got a penny out of me. No one beats CPS, NO ONE !

see with us they drug it out 3 months where I nearly lost my mind (part of the game) we would go and they would reschedual for another month. Everytime you sit in the room waiting for court the case workers would come in and hand you a piece of paper that had more obsurd allogations on it and you would sit there speachless in shock with your head spinning wondering "where did this come from" Now you are falling victim to their game of chess, they have you off guard and your in no shape for court or to fight or much of anything but go home and sit in the corner and wonder why you were born.

katgotsteve : I have friends that work in the homes that many mentally handicaped people spend their lives in. Sexual allegations are a common practice of these people, Im no shrink but Im sure there is alot of pent up sexual anxioty in these poor people. However my point is everyone who is anyone in the business knows these people constantly have these sexual accusations and public displays ...... yet as in your case the authorities act like it specific to you and are making your lives a living hell. Once again, there is alot at stake here and its called the almighty dollar and self justification. If you have any kind of lawyer he would get documation from "shrinks" that clearly show this is a common trend of mentally handicaped people.
Last edited by trappedinwreakage on Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:18 pm

Trappedinwreakage:

Caution: be prepared for the teenage years, CPS is already implanting information and ideas in their heads, if you dont give your children what they want when they become teens you will be seeing these people again.


That is true, as most CPS went to the Schools and would have "seminars" and "speeches" telling the Kids "how to call for help" (more like how to escape punishement/groundings and get what they wanted). I know of one Kid down the street already using CPS so she can go to her Boyfriend past midnight hours. Then she did not know that she ended up under Foster Care watch and can't see this person until the following weekend. So she acted like an angel just to get back to her Mom's house so she can see this person again. After a while, they broke up I think but she regretted that she went to Foster Care just to get back at her Mother using CPS. :roll: Because she is under watchful eyes from CPS now. With CPS, the Kid's lose their freedom but the problem is that they don't know it yet. :roll:
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

SADMOMMIE
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Postby SADMOMMIE » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:09 am

We went to court this morning for trial but the trial was delayed until this Thursday because the assistant attorney general stated that their witness that performed the medical examination of my son was unavailable until this Thursday. We learned today that the state has also filed an order to have my son testify via closed circuit television and that our attorney not be allowed to cross examine him due to the potential emotional and mental damage that this could cause my son. :shock: So let me get this straight, they have interviewed my son on numerous occasions and have coached him on what to say, he has told me this, and now they don't want our attorney to question him because they are concerned about his mental and emotional state? Give me a break. These people are well aware that there is no way in hell that my son would come into the court room and say that I have ever abused him. They are also trying to get a motion passed that would prohibit our witnesses from testifying on our behalf. Why are these people so willing to do what is obviously unjust and unethical just to prove their case? At our mediation with them last week, they offered to dismiss the case against my husband for failure to protect if I would consent to the adjudication of dependency. I told them that i would not lie down and ever say that I abused my child or that my children were dependent on the state. The attorney for the state then said ok well then we are going to proceed against both of you and we are going to win. I would rather have my day in court and have the judge, who is an impartial party :roll: , find me guilty. We were so ready to just get this thing over with and start on the court approved case plan but once again we have been delayed. Does this nonsense ever end?

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:27 am

Don't you hate that they delay things? and delay/remand cases? I found out it was all about the Funding generating to the Judge and the Lawyers. The more they remand cases, the more money flows right in. But CPS Lawyers are not even prepared saying their "medical examiner" was not even ready? They saw your Son already, what more do they need?

If they can question your Son, so can your Lawyer. You have the Right to cross examine as the Law allows you to. There are Laws where you can exercise the right to cross examine. It says so right there in the Consitutional Right Amendment. I know it is bollocks and CPS Lawyers are TRYING EVERY EFFORTS TO BLOCK EVIDENCE, they are covering up their tracks. You know CPS Lawyers and CPS themselves are SO Good at covering their tracks. Your Lawyer just needs to uncover their tracks by pointing out the EVIDENCE. That is all you need to do.

You have the right to bring Witnesses. Hell with them. There are Laws where you can bring witnesses to testify to rebuke their claims. Why are they blocking it for? They are covering it up!!

Looks like you have a real good case for Lawsuit if they are covering up their butts. Good Case for Appeals too. :wink:
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

SADMOMMIE
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Postby SADMOMMIE » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:20 am

Needless to say we were floored by their latest tricks. They are stating that constitutional right to confront the accused is undermined by the potential emotional and mental damage that my son could face. My son loves us and tells me at every visitation that he wants to come home. I don't understand why they needed to delay the case because this CPT nurse was not there. She has already submitted a report that states that my son said stated that I hit him with a cord. This is supposedly the evidence that was used to remove the children. But there was no new mark or scars on my son. The scars that they are referring to are old scars and even the CPT nurse is unable to provide a timeline for when these supposed injuries occurred. All that her report stated was that there were old. I am so sick of the games that these people are playing with our children and our lives. They no longer have the CPI who inititated this investigation and made the decision to remove the children to testify for them, she was fired after our attorney disposed her, so they are now grabbing at straws to prove their case. I know that my son is so confused by what is happening. When the state had my son interviewed by a forensic interviewer in October, he was agian inconsistent in his statements and when shoen my photograph he kissed the picture and wanted to take it with him! :D I don't think that they were expecting that because the interviewer immediately removed the picture from the table and told him that he could not keep it. I am just ready to have this over and done with so that my children can come home to where they were never abused and where they are more than loved. These children are our life. Everythiing that we have done and continue to fight for has been for what is truely in the best interest of our children. We have spent over $12,000 fighting these monsters and have nearly depleted our savings because we feel that stroongly about being able to fairly present our case to the court. And now they don't want us to have witnesses at the trial. Their evil :twisted: schemes never end!!! We are so close to losing our jobs from taking off from work on a weekly basis, but none of that matters because our children are more important to us than any job. We can always replace our jobs, our children on the hand are simply irreplacable!!!

Gary Shaw
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Postby Gary Shaw » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:55 pm

No law or excuse can undermine the U. S. Constitution and your rights granted under it. Reading thru your story they have also broken quite a few Federal Laws and depending on the state you live in I would bet they have broken quite a few state laws as well as the policies and procedures, rules and guidelines set by your state.
The two enemies of the people are criminals and the government, so let us tie the second down with the Constitution so the second will not become a legalized version of the first.
Thomas Jefferson

SADMOMMIE
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Postby SADMOMMIE » Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:45 pm

We are in the state of Florida. The state and its attorney are so busy back peddling and trying to cover their mistakes that they are willing to violate our state, federal and Constitutional rights. They have listed the CPI who started the investigation and swore to the many false statements as a witness for them. We were in court today and this CPI was nowhere to be seen. Instead her supervisor, who we have never spoken with and would only be able to provide statements from this corrupt CPI, was present in the court. The assistant attorney general handed the motion to have my son testify via closed circuit television and their case notes from the agency that has our children to our attorney minutes before we walked into court! Our attorney filed a motion for discovery back in October! Even our attorney says that he has never seen such trickery and absurdities and he has been handling dependency cases for the last 13 years. There are so many things that we want to have a chance to say in court that the list seems endless. We need to tell how our children were first removed from the home citing that they were in imminent danger. Where was the proof of this? The report was made to the child abuse hotline on 9/7/06 and they did not investigate until 9/20/06. The entire case is based on the existence of these old scars that we did not even know my son had. Then there is the issue of our two month oold son being severly neglected while in their care. We made a report to the child abuse hotline regarding his physical condition and the unwillingness of the agency to seek medical attention for him. There is the CPI who was found to be a liar and was consequently dischaged from her position with DCF. There is the lack of attention to our seven year old's needs as he is currently placed in a group home and seems to be taking care of himself. His physical appearance is horrible. There is so mush to say that I won't know where to begin. I can only hope that the judge allows us to have the time needed to discuss all issues that need to be addressed.

Gary Shaw
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Postby Gary Shaw » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:11 pm

Sadmommie,

One of the tactics they use is to not let you talk in court (or your attorney if they can). They are also known for last minute motions to not allow time to rebut them. I am sure your attorney knows he can ask for a continuance to have time on last minute motions, maybe he should use it.

You should consider filing what is commonly called a Declaration of Facts. This declaration if simply an affidavit. An affidavit is simply put a sworn statement. Ours consisted of our opinion of what had been done illegally and we cited the state law and federal law that made it illegal, a time line of each and every time we caught them in a lie, we cited the guidelines in the Case Workers Reference Manual for Georgia (we live in Georgia) and how the did not follow their own rules and policies, we gave dates and times for each broken rule or policy. We used real names and we very professionally and businesslike called an Ace an Ace and a Spade a Spade. We had it Notorized and took it to the Clerk of Juvenile Court, our attorney did not want us to do it, the Clerk did not want to accept it. We held our ground and showed them in the Judge's Benchbook (kinda like a how to rule book for Judges) where we could do it, they accepted it and the Judge read it (Judges read everything properly submitted to them, they are required to) he had a complete 180 in attitude and he immediately changed from talk about terminating our son and his wife's parental rights for our grandchildren and started reunification efforts.

I would talk with my attorney and push for something like this. We like to accuse the judges of rubber stamping everything CPS asks for. This is not necessary true, a judge is only allowed to consider the evidence presented to them for this case during this hearing. If your side is not heard then obviously they will rule for the other side.
The two enemies of the people are criminals and the government, so let us tie the second down with the Constitution so the second will not become a legalized version of the first.

Thomas Jefferson

SADMOMMIE
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Postby SADMOMMIE » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:28 pm

I don't know if this is something that I can do here in my state. I live in Florida. If anyone has any knowledge of if this is allowed, please let me know. Trial is this Thursday! :roll:

Marina
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Postby Marina » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:21 pm

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Here are the Florida Rules of Procedure.

I think some of the Rules of Civil Procedure apply in Juvenile and Family Court.

I don't see any restrictions on who can file evidence with the court.

It is not clear if the clerk of the court will give copies to all parties, so when the papers are filed, this needs to be cleared up.

Call the court, go to the court, ask them, if they refuse to let you file papers ask them to show you the law that says you can't.

http://www.floridabar.org/tfb/TFBLegalR ... enDocument

Here are the Rules of Civil Procedure

http://www.floridabar.org/TFB/TFBResour ... penElement

page 62, 63

EVIDENCE

(b) Filing. When documentary evidence is introduced in an action, the clerk or the judge shall endorse an
identifying number or symbol on it and when proffered or admitted in evidence, it shall be filed by the clerk or judge
and considered in the custody of the court and not withdrawn except with written leave of court.

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page 20, 21

RULE 1.080. SERVICE OF PLEADINGS AND PAPERS
(a) Service; When Required. Unless the court otherwise orders, every pleading subsequent to the initial pleading
and every other paper filed in the action, except applications for witness subpoena, shall be served on each party. ..

(e) Filing Defined. The filing of papers with the court as required by these rules shall be made by filing them with
the clerk, except that the judge may permit papers to be filed with the judge, in which event the judge shall note the
filing date before him or her on the papers and transmit them to the clerk. The date of filing is that shown on the face
of the paper by the judge’s notation or the clerk’s time stamp, whichever is earlier.

(g) Service by Clerk. If a party who is not represented by an attorney files a paper that does not show service of a
copy on other parties, the clerk shall serve a copy of it on other parties as provided in subdivision (b).
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I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:20 pm

The fact that your Attorney has not seen their trickersty and absurdities in 13 yrs of his career on the Job. That's because CPS Lawyers are changing its tactics to make things more effective to win. They are like Sharks.
What would you do if you are surrounded by sharks? Just remain calm and feed its evidence and the sharks will go away. :D

Just an example. All I am saying just be prepared of what tactic they might pull next and it will be nasty. Just let your Lawyer pile up all the needed Evidence to rebut their claims but be ready for any new surprises. What I would do is to THINK ONE STEP AHEAD OF THEM. What stuff would they pull next? They can always pull up dirty past of everyone in your Family including criminal background. They can nitpick anything, and make you look really bad. Just put Witnesses on anyways that can claim that you are a GOOD PARENT. Put them on saying that you wouldn't harm your Children.
They even might put the Nurse on the Stand, who knows? Just be prepared for anything. I mean vitrually anything.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

SADMOMMIE
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Postby SADMOMMIE » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:48 pm

I want to thank everyone that has been so kind as to provide us with your help or advice. Just being able to vent about the happenings of our case and hearing that we are not the only innocent parents caught in this sick trend has been very comforting and therapeutic. The only thing better would be to never have been involved in such a mess in the beginning, but I know that we can't change the past. We can only work towards a happier future for our children and ourselves. We are preparing for our trial on Thursday and I will return to the message board and let you know how it goes. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers as we will keep you in ours. Thank you all and God bless! :D

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:10 pm

Exactly, I agree.
And you are always welcome here. We all vent here too.
I will keep you and your Family in my Prayers and hope your Court will end well for you.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

Marina
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Postby Marina » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:56 am

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This link on Going to Court may be helpful.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/userma ... rseven.cfm
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SADMOMMIE
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NOW WE WAIT.........

Postby SADMOMMIE » Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:48 pm

We finished our trial today and after two days of listening to the state's attorney and witnesses tell every lie under the sun, I am dizzy and disgusted! In the end we didn't even get to question my son because the judge wouldn't allow any of our attorney's questions because they might have caused him severe emotional and mental damage. Mind you, these are the same questions that the CPI, CPT nurse and forensic interviewer had previously asked my son. The judge interviewed my son alone in her chambers. We weren't allowed to have any of our witnessed testify because the state's attorney argued that she received the witness list after the close of business on the last day allowed for discovery. Our attorney had evidence to prove that he sent an email with the list before the close of business, but the judge sustained the state attorney's argument and didn't allow any of our witnesses to testify. Our attorney was rushed through his cross examination of the state's witnesses and every other couple of minutes the judge would ask him "Is that it?" Can someone say biased? We are not certain but we are pretty sure that my son told the judge that our case manager abd other people have been telling him what to say. When we returned to the court toom after he was questioned in chambers by the judge, they were all running aroud trying to get their next lie straight and saying that they never initiated the conversations about the case with my son. We also noticed a slight change in the judge's demeanor after the interview. Very long story short, both attorneys ngave their closing statements and then the judge quickly told everyone that they would receive her order in the mail. The state was floored as I am sure that they were expecting an immediate slam dunk, case closed. That didn't happen. Now we are wondering if it is normal for a judge to send their decision in the mail and how long does this usually take? After this week, I am even more confused :? about the procedures of a dependency trial.

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:08 pm

By the sounds of it, it sounds good for you. The Judge sounds not too happy about what State's Attorney was doing.

Yes Judges do mail their decisions in the mail, but it is RARE. Look at Anxiousmom on the board, she is waiting for the decisions in the mail too. I think the Judge just want to avoid a frenzy. I guess she does not want to hear State's Attorney's objections. Better this way to calm everyone involved is to send decisions thru the mail.
Does sound good by your descriptions.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

anxiousmom
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Postby anxiousmom » Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:57 pm

Yes, I am waiting on the judge's decision....he is going to send a letter to my lawyer, my husband's lawyer & I guess CPS....then, my lawyer will notify me.

The waiting is hard & I feel for you.

Hopefully your son told the judge what has been happening & your judge will do the right thing.

It just blows my mind that you all were not allowed to have your own witnesses testify!!!!!!


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