Guilty of having rules and discipline

Are you going through an investigation now? Tell your story and get feedback here.

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MotherOf3
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Postby MotherOf3 » Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:15 pm

There is no law stating you cant defend yourself in court, It actually states you can. Just instead it you doing all the paper work and spending the money for photo copy's or subpoena's and it allot cheaper then the lawyer itself, almost all law's for a state is available online, and the law library's are public. If you got teenagers they can even help research. I say screw the lawyers and defend yourself, It is what my husband and I always have done. I hope this advice helps you out.
Just be careful of loopholes. They will get you ever single time. It how we lost our medical malpractice suit. We didn't file a certain document properly.

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:15 pm

the problem with defending ourselves is that I would have to do the work and honestly, I can't take on anything else. I wish I could. This mess is just so big and has gotten so out of control....

As is right now, unless we can come up with $1400 for clinical assessments that DCS has ordered via court, we won't get him back. We don't have the money and insurance won't cover it since it's court ordered... even if it was just on the permanency plan they wouldn't.

DCS won't pay for anything.

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:07 pm

I thought another member said that if the Court ordered it, as CAS Request it, then CAS pays for it.

Am I wrong? I don't know. I just thought it makes sense if CAS asks you to take such service and ask the Judge to court order it, it was THEIR IDEA so hence they should pay for it.

How come you have to pay for it? and Why?
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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katgotsteve
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Postby katgotsteve » Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:25 pm

tnradmom
i have done some research on what insurance will and will not pay for. mostly the use the fact that things are not cureable. there are several behavioral things they will play on.
if you get a true diagnosis, it will be on an axis 1, and be accompanied by a number. insurance will pay for this, because it is considered treatable.
on the axis 2, you normally get just statements.. for example my husband had no axis 1, but has a statement on axis 2 as dependent personality disorder and alcoholism....the explaination is that his test showed this by his own statement...i talked to another psychologist and that psychologist says that he may have misunderstood the questions, one becuase he has no history of alcohol abuse or dependency and two he has been a supervisor and managed 13 employees, their schedules and the finances of his department, so that by itself throws out the dependent personality.
here is what else i know, based on your income, they are suppose to pay for court ordered things. if you do not have the money, contact them. write a letter to your governor, your state dhr office. your reps, i wrote and sent out 60 letters the other day. i have gotten alot of response. the letter was blunt and to the point. it explained the case to a point. i pointed out the rights and wrongs of my case. also, include your case number at the end of your letter. it allows them to find out things. have a policy specialist look into your case, then when you discuss the case with her it give you a chance to vent, they will try to bully you, just stand up for it, i got a little ugly with her, but she quit talking down to me. you have to be the one to push, to show your butt. let them ok, you asked for this, now you are going to get it... most people in dfacs will not push back, because they do not know if they are right or wrong. they do not know thier own policy, they are normally not educated in their own policy much less the law. push them.

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katgotsteve
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Postby katgotsteve » Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:34 pm

forgot the most important point. axis 2 is not considered a diagnosis. it is considered behavioral and can only be treated by behavioral programing. insurance does not pay for this becuase it is how the person was raised and they do not want to involved in deprograming and other things. this is information provided to me by dfacs therapist. we have had three of them so far in our case and all have written reports on our behalf and now have made it to court becuase the seem to disappear before the therapy is finished and we have had to start over and over again.

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:00 pm

DCS has said we have to pay for it. Is why we looked into the insurance.

The insurance said they would not pay for it because it will become a court document. Medically there is not a reason for either me or my husband to be assessed. (According to the insurance)

The reason they want the assessment on me is because I had a parenting assessment in October and I called it what it was... bogus. The "examiner" included an alleged statement that I never made. She said that the incident occurred on our back porch (we don't have one... never have) I know my testimony pissed off DCS. During the assessment the examiner told me that while I was strict she saw nothing that concerned and at worst we would have to do just a general parenting class. When the report came back it said I had severe anger issues, I was always negative about my kids and that I was lacking the basic of parenting skills.

I have been in therapy since October. It started as anger management therapy. (not to be confused with anger management classes) I am still seeing the same therapist and it is just general therapy.

Also in october me and DH started a parenting course that FSS paid for and graduated it Jan 2.

Since then they are ordering the clinical. DCS won't call us back. Not unless it's because the foster parent is ticked off or we rattle the cages over there.

What DCS sees as a problem in my parenting is because I refuse to bribe my kids to behave. I expect respect and honesty. Mind you out of 6 kids my stepson is the only one that has a problem and he has had that problem since before we got him. As I have said before he has attachment disorder and all this is doing is making it worse.

I am afraid of what DCS is going to force us to do.

Anyhow... the insurance had said they were going to cover it and then when the examiner called they said they couldn't since it involved the courts. All the hippa and such I suppose.

My question is how can we FORCE DCS to pay for it?

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katgotsteve
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Postby katgotsteve » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:21 pm

unless you make alot of money and are well above poverty level, they cant. if you go in front of the judge and tell them you cant afford it becuase it takes away from your other children and your insurance will not cover it, he/she will order the department to pay for it. they are not suppose to cause you any undo financial hardship, hey it is in thier own manuals. if i were you i would also ask for parenting classes specific to that child's needs. i know a woman who told the judge that she wanted classes specific to her son's needs, the judge agreed. prenatal care, dish washing, personal hygiene, have nothing to do with attachment disorder. this disorder could only be a tip of the iceberg. from what i read, it starts as attachment disorder, then often bipolar disorder, then possibly schizophrenia or asperger's syndrome. then alot of adhd medication, often present alot of symptons. adderall, has side effects, i know three people who were on it and presented with bipolar type symptons. my stepson's girlfriend is one, she changed medication and is completely normal. a doctor told me that most of the side effects of some medication are worse than the behaviors they are suppose help.
go to http://www.bpkids.com they can help you out alot, even with some of the symptons of attachment disorder, they even talk about how cps gets involved.
please pm if you would like to talk to me or ask another question i may be able to help you with. i am pretty good with computer searches, ask dfacs in my state....lol
they hate my letters and have even made a point about it by telling the judge and writing it in my family plan.

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good dad
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Postby good dad » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:36 pm

My question is how can we FORCE DCS to pay for it?


This comes from the Federal guide for caseworkers:

Service Provision
This is the stage during which the case plan is implemented. It is CPS's role to arrange, PROVIDE, and coordinate the delivery of services to children and families. When possible, the services that are selected to help families achieve goals and outcomes should be based on an appropriate match of services to goals and should use best practice principles. When needed services are not readily available or accessible, an interim or alternative plan must be made with families


It's their role to "provide" the service..

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/userma ... s/cpsd.cfm
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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:10 am

katgotsteve wrote:unless you make alot of money and are well above poverty level, they cant. if you go in front of the judge and tell them you cant afford it becuase it takes away from your other children and your insurance will not cover it, he/she will order the department to pay for it. they are not suppose to cause you any undo financial hardship, hey it is in thier own manuals.


Here's the thing there. DCS said that they can count my child support that I get for my two girls and the SSI that I get for the baby (he was born with heart defects) Now I told them they can't count that for my step son because I can't spend that money on anybody except for the children it comes in for. It's law that I can't spend it on myself (I know for fact the SSI is that way).

They told me it's household income so it counts. Doesn't matter that we are on food stamps and the kids are on Medicaid.

My husband works for the state. That right there should tell you he doesn't make anything. He doesn't make enough for a family of 4 based on DHS scale of poverty.

So I will just have to demand through DH that DCS has to pay.



katgotsteve wrote:if i were you i would also ask for parenting classes specific to that child's needs. i know a woman who told the judge that she wanted classes specific to her son's needs, the judge agreed. prenatal care, dish washing, personal hygiene, have nothing to do with attachment disorder. this disorder could only be a tip of the iceberg. from what i read, it starts as attachment disorder, then often bipolar disorder, then possibly schizophrenia or asperger's syndrome. then alot of adhd medication, often present alot of symptons. adderall, has side effects, i know three people who were on it and presented with bipolar type symptons. my stepson's girlfriend is one, she changed medication and is completely normal. a doctor told me that most of the side effects of some medication are worse than the behaviors they are suppose help.
go to http://www.bpkids.com they can help you out alot, even with some of the symptons of attachment disorder, they even talk about how cps gets involved.
please pm if you would like to talk to me or ask another question i may be able to help you with. i am pretty good with computer searches, ask dfacs in my state....lol
they hate my letters and have even made a point about it by telling the judge and writing it in my family plan.


We have asked for specific help with his needs. DCS says he is a perfectly normal child. In fact the foster mom told me he is perfectly normal aside from the fact that he likes to draw pictures of penis' (He's 5yo)

If attachment disorder goes untreated in can turn into a personality disorder after puberty sets in. J's assessment came back that it is obvious there is attachment issues but the psychologist said she could not diagnose it. We are referred to an Attachment Therapist but he will not see us until J comes home.

Anyhow... attachment can present as bipolar, ADD/ADHD, ODD, PDD, and many other things. The difference is what causes it. J was perfectly normal and on track developmentally until he was involved in the domestic violence incident with his bio mom and her boyfriend. He wasn't attached to her because she didn't take care of him her parents did. So when he moved here with his sister it was taking him away from his primary care giver.

Not all children that go through the turmoil my two step children have gone through develop attachment disorders. Both of these two precious children have though. Thankfully my step daughter (10yo) is attached finally. She still has issues and problems, but they are getting better.

We have managed to keep J off of medication. DCS wants to medicate him. The psychologist said no and we have said no. They are doing something to him though. His personality is changing.

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:22 am

Thank you good dad.


We are working on it.


You know I think what troubles me the most is the case is against me but I am not allowed to do anything because I have no rights to J since he is my step son.

They even told my husband that if he were to leave me that J could have come home long ago. Of course when he brought it back up to them they said they never said it. I know he would never leave me, that is good.

You know what boils down is that this case should have been over months ago. But they are dragging all of this out.

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:41 pm

Of course, that is their #1 Intention all along which is to drag it on and on...in order to make funds off your Family's name (Case number 16378) Whatever example.

I would get it court ordered to have CPS pay for the Services because you have undue hardship or you have the right to be provided the Services and it is CPS's Responsiblity to carry out the services as promised. But they do indeed break promises as they have done in the past with many families. They will tell the Judge "your honor, this family did not complete the services, can you make them take it again?"

Make sure you have documented proof of completion of the Services.

If you are paying the Services from out of our pockets, you are better off getting your own private Services, that are not CPS affliited. Why not? After all, it is your own money. Not theirs. You have the right to equally have said Services according to the Consitutional Right (Freedom to live liberty to do so).
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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katgotsteve
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Postby katgotsteve » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:17 pm

have you asked the judge? most judges do listen, well some do. go in front of the judge, show them your income where it comes from and explain that you want help, but help that will be can help, ie psychology classes at a local college. no judge will make you pay for something if your money comes front the ssi or child support, also the fact you are on recieving ssi says alot, it is based on family income. contact your state dhr office. they removed the child, there goal should be to reunite him with his family, if they are siding with the natural mother you may have a problem, also all stepmoms are biatches, ask my stepchildren and my husband's exwife. try to get them to admit that they will not reunite your family with your stepson and record it if your state allows it or if not you can document in a journal.
it really sounds to me like they are going to not let reunification happen and also, you are a parent to this child, step parent or not, i thought the same thing about my sister's last husband, the state no matter which one should recognize a stepparent as a parent, if they dont it goes against policy. if they will not tell you anything, then they are playing you. simply put it to them like this, i have taken care of this child, i am married to his father, i love this even though i did not give birth to him, do you have a problem with me being part of the reunification. what will take for you to help reunite my family?
also, i just found this out, call the district supervisor or write them and ask for a family meeting. in this meeting you get to bring your family and they bring in supervisors. i am having one in the near future as soon as i get time. they want to have it next week, but i will probably postpone it until my kids are out of school and work gets a little more slack.
push them, they are pushing you, push back. this is a tug of war, strongest person wins.

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:53 pm

Frustrated :: We know they are stalling because birth mom has 5 assessments to complete vs. mine and DH's clinical w/ parenting component. They want him to go back to birth mom despite the fact that we have documentation of excessive ER visits and the fact that she never took the 5yo to a well visit. His vaccinations were so screwed up when we got him he had to get double to catch him up. He was also re-flagged immediately due to being so small and thin.

Katgotsteve:: It was brought up at the last hearing (April 18th) they shrugged it off. The judge did not say anything. DCS said in the hallway after that our insurance had to pay for it. The step parent thing. Tennessee doesn't recognize stepparents and on top of that because DH got custody of his two after we were married they are citing that he doesn't want me to have rights over them since he didn't include me on the documentation. Fact of the matter is bio mom wouldn't have signed it had my name been on there.

What is the purpose of a family meeting? Like a DCS review?

And yes, I will try to get them to answer if they are planning on bringing him home with us or not. Honestly, they want him to go back with bio mom. They don't believe us that she really did abuse him and his sister. The psychologist told us that they were going to try and get my step daughter too. Mind you they have no evidence of anything going on other than the one incident.

*sigh*

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katgotsteve
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Postby katgotsteve » Tue May 01, 2007 10:34 am

ok here is my main problem with this
r the children who receive assistance your husband's bio children? the reason i ask this is becuase i know that when a man or woman marries a person with children those children become their children, but if the state wants to act this way, then any income that comes into that home from another person for the care of the children should not be counted. the state can not have it both ways, they cant say you can not have a say, but oh yeah the money you receive for two other children has to count. it goes back to counting one person inferior? i often get upset when people do not include the father as a parent. creation of a child takes two people, the raising of the children takes two parents, even it that two includes a stepparent. someone needs to get off their asses and try to figure out how cps needs to run, what rules need to be put in place, none of this vague bs they like to hand down.
you have tools to use against them....point blank tell them that the if they choose to use the stepparent factor against you that then they can not count any money for the rasing of your children prior to the marriage you are in now. only the father's income can be counted. shake them up a little, ask them what they are going to do when she or the man she is with abuses the children again, who will clean up the pieces this time.

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Tue May 01, 2007 11:48 am

We are currently trying to get the casemanager to call us back. Er... my DH back.

The child support we get are for my two girls from my first marriage. The SSI comes to me as the appointed guardian over mine and DH's son. He is the biological father of the child that gets SSI. However SSI says that the money can only be spent for the care of the child we get it for. (Mind you it come in my name and goes into my checking account. Not the combined account with both of our names on it)

They love throwing up the double standard. It boils down to they will say what they want as long as it gives them leverage. Even with the Child Support and the SSI, we are still on food stamps and the kids are on Medicaid. Hello?

We are so tired. They are turning my son against me. Telling him I have done things that I haven't and we are told unless we can essentially prove we are innocent it don't matter.

The biggest thing that is really ticking me off right now is that the allegations that were filed in the same court against the bio mom were based on the therapist's testimony after treating my step daughter who was at the time 7. DCS said that it was testimony from a 7yo and it shouldn't be allowed in court. But my stepson is now 5 and they are taking what he says as gospel even though he has been proven liar. It's part of the disease.

*ugh*

A friend of me asked why I don't just give up. I told her it's because when we brought them home I prayed to God for me to love them as my own. I do, and now I am at a loss as what to do. This is destroying my family, slowly... but it is still destroying it.

I am in therapy and the therapist told me that it is obvious that DCS and all of this is causing a severe reaction in me. I am officially being treated my depression caused by anxiety. Tell me, if I have a heart attack from all of this will DCS pay for the bills then?

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katgotsteve
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Postby katgotsteve » Tue May 01, 2007 3:50 pm

i know what you mean. i had a therapist tell me that at one time cps never believed the child, but now they have to believe the child. it doesnt make any sense. i have a meeting with the therapist at 10 on friday, maybe i can get something to figured out.
document them not calling you back, call and ask to speak to the supervisor, if the cps supervisor is not there, talk to the county supervisor, if you can get her, find out who your district supervisor is, someone has to call you back. light a fire under your casworker's ass and she will call you back. i say you pissed me off now feel what i can do. i have had one supervisor who stepped down and several caseworker quit, so make enough noise they will do anything to get your out of their hair trust me on that.

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Wed May 02, 2007 9:51 am

Yup. I got the same hoopla too as well. CAS therapist says, got to believe the child, then said Oh nothing happened. Don't believe the child. THEN goes back, got to believe the child. Which one is it?
They keep changing stories so they have nothing to go on with.

Went with Private Therapist who disagreed with CAS (CPS) and also disagreed with CPS Psch. Doctor. Boy was he pissed off when he found out that the private psch. Doctors, two of them saying no, that is not true, and that is the wrong diagnosis. :lol:

As for documenting, CALL THEM, Write them. Get email address from them. For example: your CPS worker's name is (FOR EXAMPLE) ok...Daisy Howard.

You type:

[email protected]

You got to find out the Agency's website address and put that in. You can easily google that from the Website: google the Agency's name and it will pop up and you will find website address and put that in.

Then send it to her and you want a reply back in prompted time.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Wed May 02, 2007 1:15 pm

Thank you Frustrated.

DCS called back and through a bit of conversation, DH got her to admit that since DCS ordered it they have to pay for it. Then she said it would take at least a week to get the paper work done. At least it is a step forward....

As for bio mom calling? DCS said they didn't okay it and neither did their attorney, but they didn't stop it. The public defender for the bio mom is the one that pushed it and the therapeutic case manager allowed it. (We have DCS casemanager and then the therapeutic foster care casemanager.) So that is yet again the court order broken. Contempt will be charged. (or it better... I can't stand passive men...)

Hopefully our lawyer will call us back this evening to let us know what was done. *groan*

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Wed May 02, 2007 1:29 pm

You should at least get that in writing. Write a letter back to Caseworker confirming that call and what she agreed to.

Mrs. Caseworker:

I am in receipt of your call on May 2nd, at 3:00 PM. As per the conversation, you have agreed that *put agency name* that would be paying for court ordered services and you mentioned in the conversation that you will get the paper work done within the week.

Please reply back in writing to confirm this conversation. Failure to do so, will become automatic true said conversation on this date.

Regards,

Mrs. Smarts


Something like that....or you can change the terms to better polite written letter to her so she can confirm it or deny it. This way you will have it in writing.

Make sure you get everything in writing from now on.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Thu May 10, 2007 9:07 am

gotcha... thanks frustrated.


Right now I am having to figure out what to do about our lawyer. He has dropped the ball WAY TO MUCH. Small town politics is what I am afraid it is.

I wish I knew of a lawyer that would willingly pick up our case, fight for J. and then possibly file a civil suit against DCS/CPS and the sheriff's office. But we have no money.

Unfortunately it looks like DCS has won with our case. I don't have the mentality to take it all on myself, I need help. Our attorney won't do what needs to be done in a timely manner. I am hoping the email I sent to the GAL will get some sort of positive response.

All I can do is pray and rely on God. I just wish I didn't feel so hopeless about it.

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Thu May 10, 2007 9:15 am

Just like an Attorney that advises on "what to do if Cps comes to your door" and he has his own website, he advises that if your lawyer is not represnting as he should, and not fighting for you, you should seek another new Lawyer immediately and don't wait till the end of the case trial, do it at the very beginning.

I found out that my own lawyer was a CAS Lawyer for the other side, and he moved away and became a Superior Judge for Ottawa Court. :roll: I found out way too late. That's why he tells me to adhere to what they say. I knew something was fishy and then I found out this.

I don't trust any lawyers. Very few lawyers that will step up to the plate for families but it is rapidly thinning and many families are left lost within their cases because the Lawyers told them to adhere to CAS. It is just totally wrong and that's injustice system we are having in this Country and it is totally unfair for many law abiding citizens who pays their taxes on time.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Thu May 10, 2007 10:50 am

I agree... and if I could I know of a couple attorneys that might actually fight for us... but they want money. Something we don't have. What little we did have is gone.

We are beat up and pretty much beat down. In the beginning of all of this our lawyer was wonderful. Then slowly things have changed. This last hearing was the icing on the cake so to speak.... with no money, sure we could fire him... but the likelihood of getting decent public defender is nill.

Our hands are tied and the ones suffering are the kids. Not just J that CPS/DCS took from us but also the other 5. The trauma myself and my husband have gone through. All because of how DCS is handling things.

Then they say that the investigation is over but they are still investigating. Coercing J to say things that never happened or getting him to say that I did things that his birth mother did. All of this is making me regret being the loving mother I am because it was my choice to bring my two step children into our home. They weren't forced on us.

*sigh*

I wish my therapy was this week instead of next....


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