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Guilty of having rules and discipline

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:10 am
by tnradmom
Hello.. I am a mom of 6 in Tennessee. 2 of my children are step and due to the severe neglect and abuse of their bio mom have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and Attachment Disorder. We have had full custody of them since July 2004 and have had sole custody since June 2005 with bio mom in contempt of court.
We have been trying to get help for these two wonderful children for over 2 years when we realized there was a problem. WE were told with A who was 7 at the time that she had been physically, emotionally and very possibly sexually abused. J at the time was only 2 so they couldn't get him really to talk. We have it documented where we have taken them to therapy and to the doctor to find out what is wrong with them. They are both VERY thin and small. A who is now ten is 58 pounds and 4'3" . J is 36 pounds and 36 inches tall at 5.

Anyhow... CPS got involved because I spanked J and it left a bruise. I am guilty I shouldn't have spanked as hard. I knew better. I had used a paddle that the therapist told us to use because your hand is meant for love, a paddle is the rules. The night it happened he caused his brother and dad to get hurt (dad couldn't walk for 2 days) and the disobedience had been going on all day.

The CPS worker put J only into a safety placement with my mother (not blood related to him) and said it would at most be 2 weeks and that they weren't going to press criminal charges because they believed it was a one time incident, which it was.

I suppose this is where my story is different.. I am guilty of spanking too hard.. but I don't believe what they are doing is the right manner in which to proceed.

2 days after the interview and they put J in the safety placement, the sheriff's office knocks or rather beats on my door waking me and my two napping younger children. They inform me that I am under arrest with Class A Aggravated Child Abuse and they are taking me in now. I refused because my two little ones were there. The detective responded this is what's best so the kids aren't truamatized. I resisted to teh point that they told me if I continued they would have to charge me. I told them I would not leave my kids alone in the house and then the little one started crying. He's a heart baby. So the officers let me in. mind you I was handcuffed, to go and check on him. The detective claimed I was lying about him being a heart baby until I showed her his surgery scar. It took a bit of doing but we got my mom to come and watch the two while she left J with my dad.

I spent 13 days in jail because they set my bond at $500,000 dollars. The lowest we were able to get it was $25,000.

3 1/2 months later we go to juvenile to see about bringing J home. CPS and the sheriff's office told half truths and outright lies and said that I was the worst mother they had ever seen. That I have extreme anger issues and I am very abusive. Now mind you, I have 6 kids, the only one removed was J. Even with me admitting that we spank. The judge called CPS a liar but understood there was something wrong. He put J in Theraputic foster care and I can only have Theraputic supervised visits that the facilitator doesn't want to shcedule due to the fact that I am demanding and I intimidate her. Her words were that we should just sit there and nod our heads and accept what they are saying regardless of how we feel. DCS wants me to grovel at their feet in order to get J home.

The jist of it is right now, my criminal charges are done with, because of the situation and the county, we did the plea bargain that the DA came to us with before I was even indicted. (which shows they know I am not guilty of what I am being accused of)

J is now in therapy that the judge ordered and the therapist is COMPLETELY on our side in this instance. With J having attachment issues and PTSD his behavior has been erratic since we got him. He has been needing help and nobody has been willing to do anyything. We have the proof, DCS is refusing to verify. In fact DCS is saying that J's aggression, sexual behavior and out right rebellion is all because I spanked him. They are saying none of the behavior was there prior to the spanking. (That is unless you push the issue that he needs to be in therapy then it's he isn't showing any behaviors that are not normal for a 5year old.)

J needs to be home ASAP for his sake and fr therapy to help him. His sister A is spiralling down into depression and we can't do anything cause all our money is tied up in the case. How is any of this helping any of the kids?

M, my 3 yo panics everytime he sees a police car and tells me to run. He didn't do that before this happened. He even told a police officer at Walmart that he didn't like him. I am afraid, if he is showing distrust for law enforcement at 3 because of this, what will happen when he is 16? What has DCS created?

Anyhow... our lawyer has most everything under control the big question is once DCS has decided you are the worst parent in the world, how do you change their mind?

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:49 am
by florida999
a therapist told you that your hand is for love; a paddle is for the rules????????? that is by far the worst advice I have ever heard. I would get a new therapist.

most of the parents that come to this site is because we have not done anything wrong. in your case, you lost control and paddled your child. you should consider yourself lucky they did not remove all your children. the parents here have lost thier children for much much less then what you describe.

no matter how much the child is out of control, there is nothing in the world that can justify hitting a child to the point were you leave marks. a swat of the butt and telling them to go to their room is one thing, but this is not what you have discribed. I hope you have gotten some help for your own anger issues. your posts talks alot about what you are doing for the children, but what are you doing about you? if your want your child back your going to need to prove to the judge that you have taken steps to control your anger.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:36 pm
by tnradmom
I am in therapy and have been. I did the parenting assesment and the parenting classes as they requested.

You know what, I know I was in the wrong and I was hoping to get help. Spanking a child is not a crime. I spanked too hard and I know that. Forgive me for wanting some help or support. My concern is that CPS is overstepping their boundries and attempting to destroy my family.

Most therapist and books on parenting that mention spanking say not to use your hand.

You know what. I don't need people yelling when I have admitted I did wrong and I am just asking for help and advice.

And as for my anger... the therapist I have been going to since October, did a complete assessment and DCS even did an assessment, I do not have anger management issues. I do however suffer from Post Traumatic Stress due to loving my children too much and trying to get them help.

Where was everybody with great advice the last 2 1/2 years that we have been trying to get help for the situation? Why did it have to come to the point that it has?

I suppose I came to the wrong site. I don't claim I am perfect, I do claim that while yes, there needed to be intervention what DCS has done is ridiculous. I was hoping that this site would be more understanding.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:37 pm
by Frustrated
Did you bring this therapist that told you to do this in Court and did the Judge knows about this?

This is a tough case and you asked the question: How do you change their minds?

The answer that you never will...NOT with these CPS righteous People. You will never convince them. CPS stands and firm on their decisions. I don't like CPS and Cops either...but they are their own People with righteous "perfect" answers. They think they are perfect in each of their own, and BETTER than anyone else.
The best thing you can do is just focus on your Family and Healing. You know the Truth and they don't. Have Faith. I don't judge and I just leave all of this to God. God will pass judgement and CPS cannot give judgement and CPS will be judged too. I will leave it at that.

I will keep you and your Family in my prayers. I know Life is Hard. We all have to deal with it.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:58 pm
by tnradmom
we have three written statements from three different therapist. 2 have seen the kids especially the one in question and 1 works for TEIS. It is what they are told in training that it is best not to spank but if you do either use a paddle, fly swatter, wooden spoon or ruler. That is what they are told.

The question is not if I spanked and left a bruise. DCS is saying they have proof it was not a one time thing. It's not possible. It was a one time thing I am terribly sorry I did it and have said so to all involved. The question is did me spanking him cause him to be the troubled child that he is. The answer is no, we have proof to back it up. He has been in as much therapy as we have been able to get him in and so has his sister. They both have PTSD and Attachment Issues. Which the state of TN denies being possible even though the diagnosis is right in front of their face.

The Judge sees nothing wrong with spanking as long as there is no significant injury(no broken bones and the bruising isn't severe), and if it's a first time offense if there is no proof of repeated abuse he normally throws it out. CPS got up there and lied and said that I told them I "beat" him and that he said he hated me and did ever want to come home. This is not true. My mom has it on tape where he cried and begged to come home. He told the GAL that he wanted to go home to his momma and brothers (he don't care for those sisters that are bossy) The GAL asked who was his momma and he pointed at me.

I want to clarify, I hate what I did. But now is the time to pick up correct and move on. If we are able to get a hold of the records where my dh and the main therapist called DCS about the problems that the kids told us it will prove that I did not cause J to be the troubled child he is.

I feel like I am beating a dead horse. I know what happened was wrong. I know I am lucky they didn't take all the kids, but doesn't that alone say they know I didn't intentionally cause harm? Our pediatrician even said that unfortunately all parents regardless if the beleive in spanking or not will have one child that they go too far with. They learn from teh mistake and never do it again. Doesn't mean that all parents spank too hard, just means that all parents make one mistake they shouldn't have done and they learn from it.

Anyhow... I suppose I should move on as I am not innocent and that I brought all of this on myself.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:10 pm
by trappedinwreakage
The other person that posted here had no right to pass judgement or the rest about people on here for less. I have read why others are here and none of its pretty. Some of us have clean, healthy, hard working, sober, high function, two parent households and believe in dicipline but have had our lives and families destroyed by these preditors. Ill take the later lifestyle, thats how I was raised.

As for paddle, flyswatter, ect. I will say I always spanked with my hand. My opinion is anything but the hand is use of a weapon ... thats how I rationalized it in my head and why I used the hand, plus the hand feels and that way you know just exactly what you are doing. There was probably only 6 instances when my daughter was young and "learning" that she was spanked by me. Her mother would just sit there and argue back and forth for hours - A VERY STUPID AND NON PRODUCTIVE METHOD THAT ONLY TEACHES AND REHEARSES DISRESPECT. With me and my daughter it was years and years that went by after she learned the basics before we had another instance and that was the one that destroyed our home and family.

You did mention that he was out of control all day. I never allowed this, this teaches nothing and builds tension. Anything a child gets away with once they will always do. He didnt listen all day and got away with it, you were finally wore down and then reacted, and this is possibly part of the problem. I do realize your kids have other issues I never had to confront and I feel for you and am impressed that you have made the efforts for help. I know this always falls on deaf ears unless the checking account is large then peoples hearing always improves.

My mother used a flyswatter, that was the 60's and I got it about 8 - 10 times total and thats just guessing may have been less.

I WAS NEVER TRAUMATIZED! and I never lost love or respect for my mother once.

My father used his hand and it was no more than 3 good swats on my bare butt and I thought death was near (joke for all you hardcores). I NEVER FOR A SECOND WAS TRAUMATIZED. In fact sometime between the first and the second swat I had already made a pact with myself to never do what I did again. If I rememer correctly I got it from Dad only twice. The first time was when I came home from about 4th grade and tried out some of those new words learned in school on Mom. Her jaw hit the floor and she said "go to your room and wait till your father gets home". I know I got it once again but just cant remember why.

This is why we respected our parents !

as for marks I have no idea about that but ... once again with your hand you know what you are doing.

When I was in some school teachers still used paddles and yes I got it once and never did what I did again

My best friends father used a belt and I always thought that was wrong, but he loved and respected his father till the day he died and they were very close and no one was ever arrested, locked up, thrown in jail, fingerprinted, made a fool of in their community, named in the newspaper, got a criminal record, became tramatized, lost a job or any of the NONSENCE OUR SOCIETY IS EXPOSED TO TODAY

OK as for your situation

I would be tactfully assertive in court and demand (tactfully) that the judge make CPS show good cause and proof that you are the problem or the case needs to be dropped. It sounds like you have all the information, organize it and yourself and go in prepared to do business, it is your family and the time that tics by when these _ play games is no joke, its crutial time in a childs and familys life and every second creates irreversible damage. Your documentation must be considered and not ignored in a court of law. The judge can not pretend as CPS does that documented proof from professionals is dismissable.

I know here in NY state I can file petition upon petition and keep those peoples heads spinning. In the case of tempory custody you can petition anytime to have custody changed which in this case is back to you. They have to prove their case, not speculate and disrupt the family continunity.

Remember this whole thing is about money and power seeking bullies. Your lesson was learned on day one, from there on out its about #'s, headcount, $'s and the personal retribution of the social workers clique.

If you lawyer wont put his foot down and allows them to drag it out, its because there is money in it for him. If you have a court appointed lawyer he is "one of them" and you can kiss the next years of your life good bye. These people will make sure that every waking minute of you life revolves around paying for this day you spanked your child .......... or is it the day you were born ........ their never really sure you see

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:33 pm
by tnradmom
Him being out of control the whole day... he was stopped when he did it, he just kept doing it. It is part of reactive attachment disorder with the combo of PTSD. Not using it as an excuse but ultimately that is what nobody understands. I love my son and would never intentionally harm him, I and my husband have been doing everything we can within our family's limits to get him the help. TN does not recognize attachment disorder of any kind regardless the documentation.

Through the course of the day I verbally corrected him, when he hit again, I had him sit with me in a time out. Because I knew DCS and CPS are crazy I was afraid to spank his bottom because I was sure somebody would report it. Mainly because he would have acted like I killed him. WE were at pee wee football and anyway. While yes he was acting out all day, I corrected as we went.

The problem is I am one person and I had all 6 kids with me that night. DH was helping coach and he helped me when he could. Because of the attachment issues with my son, not many people are willing to help. They see the nasty tantrums and the violent rages. They don't want anything with it.

When we got home was the straw that broke the camels back to speak. He was being disobedient, both me and my dh told him to go in the house. I had the baby and dh was getting the 3yo. J didn't go instead he got up under dh.

There are a million what ifs. what if we left him in his booster seat until we could make him go in? what if we got one of the girls to take him in? what if we didn't all go to the game? The only one I know that would have done a difference is what if I didn't use the paddle. It won't be used again.

Anyhow, as for our lawyer, he's the best in these parts and is doing this as a friend for a friend. DCS has locked us up in court. Ther therapist has even told us that what they are doing is going to stretch out the final outcome. She believes that with her recommendation that J could be home ASAP, but we would still have DCS on our backs. She says if we can wait to get the PR fixed then once he is home then they will be gone. WE are lucky, the guardian ad latum is on our side, he thinks our son should be home and the judge listens to this particular therapist before DCS. we are lucky, but things are still difficult with DCS playing like they are.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:36 pm
by florida999
im sorry if my first post was harsh. All I know is that my children were taken from me....all three of them. and i never had, before or since laid a hand on them; let alone left any marks. i dont believe in hitting children, some people think spanking (without leaving marks) is acceptable punishment. the idea of hitting with any kind of object mind boggles me. spanking is not a crime, I agree with you on that. however hitting your child with a paddle and bruising them is. my parents never did that to me. I know my father went to a catholic school were the nuns hit the kids with rulers (he is in his sixtys) and he said he had nightmares for years about it. I also think the catholic schools have since done away with corporal punishment.

I know we all make mistakes, and i hope you do feel remorse for what you did.

this site is to help those who are fighting cps, those who are falsely well as those who made mistakes and are trully trying to make it right. we have had parents come on this site and have thier children taken for drug use, they are still failing tests, and want to know how to skirt the system. i dont want to help a person like that. alot of people think that thier children are thier property. I feel raising a child is a responsiblilty; and a privilege. children do not ask to be put here, they have the right to be taken care of properly. look at shaken baby syndrome, the mothers or fathers probably never intend to hurt thier child. they just lose control, however they are charged with a crime. does it make them a bad person, of course not. they had the choice to put the baby down and walk away, but they didnt.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:39 pm
by cgbr

You're not in the wrong place.

I don't really have any advice for you, other than document and keep yelling your head off about what the truth is, and keep fighting them.

Good luck!

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:35 pm
by trappedinwreakage
I never had one nightmare about a spanking, flyswatter or the paddle incidence. Every single person I have spoken to since my affair has told me they remember their upbringing and how they respected thier parents and are proud of the way they were raised.

Anyone haveing nightmares about a few smacks with a ruler is far above and beyond the typical 6-10 incidences of coporal punishment I know myself and my friends recieved. Perhaps these Nuns were smacking all the time over nothing .......... that should not be placed in a stereo type of honest firm parents that want imeadiate results for poor behavior.

today we have teenagers and children totally out of control and totally disrespectful, the parents fear them the school teachers fear them. nothing has been gained by these bleeding heart laws

Children are not a privledge, they are an extension of thier parents and are their parents responsibility. The world is full of irresponsible "I'd never hit my children" parents. Far more than those of us that demand immeadiate results and move on to more worthy application of a childs and parents time. "Children do not ask to come into this world" ........... :roll: I just had my daughters probation officer stand in my house while my daughter had another teenage drama tantrum because it worked so well the last time. This niave probation officer of about 25 years of age says to my daughter "we dont get to choose our parents" ......... thereby justifing in my daughters mind that her parents were indeed evil............ very very good ... no theres no damage in those thought patterns. Wonder what outsiders would think if parents made detrimental remarks around thier children like ... say " if I could have picked my child it would not have been you" ............. brilliant absolutely brilliant. :roll:

We have a a vast network of teenagers knowledgable, ready, willing and able to put their parents in jail to achieve early freedom from rules and regulations. The country is littered with them and CPS and bleeding heart laws promote it.

I was never tramatized until I came under the wrath of CPS

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:05 pm
by Gary Shaw

You made a mistake, you have admitted you made a mistake, you have stated you will never do that again. It would seem to me that you have learned from this incident. When we punish our children they too learn from the incidence. My only comment would be from the scriptures, "Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone."

I am 65 years old. For those graduates of government schools that means I grew up in the forties and fifties. My parents whipped me many times, almost one half of the times I deserved and earned it. They never beat me but the whippings I did get would today earn them five to thirty five years in prison. They are both gone now but I still love them, miss them and in my prayers thank them for loving me enough to enforce discipline and the rules to help me as I grew into a man. I was never traumatized by the whippings but I certainly learn the difference between right and wrong.

I have raised five sons. Three of my own, two of which I was a single father (and mother) to for six years. The oldest is 43 and the youngest is 30. Two step sons ages 24 and 21. I have witnessed the degradation of the family, the completed lack of respect for others, the disregard for rules and laws, the lack of responsibility, poor work ethics, and the dumbing down of America at work. Since government became so intrusive into our personal lives and start spreading the pyscho babble do gooder teaching our country and our world has steadily shown the negative effect. People today and especially the young people are every bit as intelligent as ever. They are far worse educated and far less capable of meeting life head on and prevailing.

In my opinion the worst thing I ever did to my sons was to try to follow the teachings of a liberal society as opposed to tough love. As a result of my failing to do so, my sons have become from the oldest to the youngest progressively less capable of meeting the requirements of responsible lives, taking care of their families, providing for their families, sustaining gainful employment and growing in their employment. understanding and showing respect for the wants, needs and property of others. It is a sad thing we see when we look around our world.

In case you are wondering, you are probably pretty normal. The rest just don't have the courage to admit it nor do they have the vision to see their own mistakes. To many people today are far to quick to judge others, usually by sitting themselves up as the example of perfection. I usually tell them, "That would be valued advice if I wanted to grow up to be like you, but I don't."

Learn all you can about the Laws of Tennessee and the Laws of the United States, learn all you can about the Rules, Policies, and Procedures of the DCS of the State of Tennessee. You can not depend on your lawyer you must learn them yourself so you can rightly judge if you are getting proper representation, it does not sound like it. Most lawyers are content to not fight and let it run it's course. You and your family pay the price for that. It is your responsibility to control the situation. From what you have written there is no LEGAL justification for them not reuniting your family and leaving you alone. I don't normal advertise our website on this or others, if you have trouble finding the Laws they are printed out on This is a wonderful site but if you need that info please help yourself. Pay special attention to the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997 and the Safe Families and Childrens Act of 2003. These two laws completely revised the imfamous CAPTA (Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act of 1977). You can only defeat them with the laws and their own rules and policies. Unfortunately there are no winners in this ugliness only losers, but you can outlast them and beat them. KNOWLEDGE is power.

God bless you and your family, we will hold you up in our prayers. I stay in this fight after we got our grand children home simply because I personally think God is tired of his children being abused, the little ones and the big ones.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:42 pm
by tnradmom
florida999 wrote:this site is to help those who are fighting cps, those who are falsely well as those who made mistakes and are trully trying to make it right. we have had parents come on this site and have thier children taken for drug use, they are still failing tests, and want to know how to skirt the system. i dont want to help a person like that. alot of people think that thier children are thier property. I feel raising a child is a responsiblilty; and a privilege. children do not ask to be put here, they have the right to be taken care of properly. look at shaken baby syndrome, the mothers or fathers probably never intend to hurt thier child. they just lose control, however they are charged with a crime. does it make them a bad person, of course not. they had the choice to put the baby down and walk away, but they didnt.

Raising a child is a major responsibility by both parents and the community. If the community sees that a parent is having difficulty they should help not turn a blind eye.

When a parent begs for help for TWO+ YEARS and nobody helps because they don't want to LABEL a child it is a sad sad world. We, my husband and I got custody of J and his sister July 2004. In Oct 2004 we found out that there has been abuse going on because we had A in therapy for an eating disorder. Once she got comfortable with the therapist, all kinds of allegations started pouring out about dh's ex wife. We called DCS where she lived, they did nothing. We called DCS here, they did nothing. We have sought help as the behavior and cognitive behaviors in both children has been disturbing. NOBODY WOULD HELP.

And the sad thing now is that even though we sought help and begged for help and have we think they might have diagnosis', DCS is telling us we are lying about it all. We have documentation. Then I come here seeking help and get yelled at. You know, it hurts. At the minimum I have severe depression, my therapist wants to say I have PTSD..... and this is all because of what DCS has done to my family.

I am sorry you lost your children. It's a crime what DCS and CPS and FSS get away with. An outright crime. I don't know how things are in other states, but I do know that here, there is very little that can be done from what I have read. I know I haven't read everything. On top of that we are in a county where the "good ole boys" rule. If you aren't a buddy of their's forget it.

Fact of the matter is, had I given birth to my son, he would have already been home and we would be well on our way to healing. Had I thrown myself at the mercies of CPS and DCS he would be home.

Because I am standing up for his rights and the rest of my family's rights I am being harassed and as J's therapist put it villianized. DCS is not meeting his educational needs, he has an IEP they have known about since Jan 3rd. as of yesterday he still wasn't getting it. They are trying to force us to change his doctors. We have private insurance on him. WE won't change the doctors and we will send them the bill if they try to take him else where.

Gary... thank you for the info... I will look into and I am sure I am not conveying how well our attorney is doing for us... with what I know of the law he is right. Plus he knows how much I love to do research and knows I will call him on it if I think something is wrong. He is fighting them... he really is. Right now he and the therapist are trying to get J home ASAP but also get DCS OUT.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:37 pm
by florida999
im sorry we got off on the wrong foot. im sure you probably go through every day telling yourself why did I do it????? you certainly dont need me digging it in. I sometimes get defensive when I hear about other situations after every thing I went through and I sometimes forget we are all fighting the same fight-regardless of how we got involved. our nightmare began when my husband and I got into a verbal arguement and our children were her. he was labeled a wife batterer-though he never has laid a hand on me (at least not violently) :) and i failed to protect my children from viewing the so called abuse. my children were gone for three months. my childrens fate was put in the hands of a 21 years old investigator hired by the state that partly was proably trying to do a good job, and partly didnt know how to handle the power her position gave her. when things didnt go her way in court she would lie-actually filed a police report stating my husband treatened her life when threr was five other people in the room including two court baliffs that said she was full of shit. she actually was removed from our case after that little stunt.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:48 pm
by florida999
our situation was our fault though. my husband called the police that night. we brought them in. if it hadnt been for that call they never would have came into our lives.

my one year old daughter can now crawl up onto the couch. but she isnt really stable yet, if you know what I mean. im so afraid of her falling which every kid does because of our dcf history. they would take first and ask questions later.

I also think to the future-If someting like this ever happened to one of my children I couldnt even take their children for them becuase we hve dcf history. hopefully by then things will have changed.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:49 pm
by Frustrated
You may be guilty of it, but you mentioned that CPS LIED in Court and said you did it more than once, but one of many. That is what you are here for. FOR THEIR LYING in COURT and fabricating reports. You say it was once, but they are saying "many". So that's what you are here for, is how to fight CPS for their Lies and correct that. You are in the right place.

Like we all say, Knowledge is power. :wink: So does the Widsom.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:06 pm
by Frustrated
Gary says:

I have witnessed the degradation of the family, the completed lack of respect for others, the disregard for rules and laws, the lack of responsibility, poor work ethics, and the dumbing down of America at work. Since government became so intrusive into our personal lives and start spreading the pyscho babble do gooder teaching our country and our world has steadily shown the negative effect. People today and especially the young people are every bit as intelligent as ever. They are far worse educated and far less capable of meeting life head on and prevailing.

I DO BELIEVE THAT TO BE TRUE 100 PERCENT. In fact it is happening in our Society today. I have seen several Kids at School just, you know, walked off and never go back home, but do whatever they want, goes to their Friend's house, not reporting to their Parents where they are....and whatnots. THERE ARE NO RESPECT around ANYMORE! They come to my house and I said "don't you have to report to your Mother where you are?" "She said Yah dope, she knows, whatever! then she just laughs it off." Then I would get a Call from her Mother wondering where she was. :roll: I told her Mother "your daughter is right here, do you need her home?" She said "yes please." I told her Daughter "time to go home". She just cursed right there at me. Then she said "Yah, whatever".
So many disrespect and a bad influence to my Kids, I told my Kids not to hang around with this "Friend" anymore. Such a Bad influence. It is SAD to know what's goes on in this World and it is SPIRALING DOWN slowly. CPS just helps to achieve that goal helping spiral it down some more by ripping Families up like a shredder with no place to put things back together.

***Sure I was ruler smacked by a Principal few times at School a longggggg time ago. I learned my lesson and never did it again. I wasn't traumatized. I remembered why and that was because I was trying to run away from School without telling the School where I was. I just ran off the property and went to the Store and no one knew where I was. After ruler smacked, I never run away and learned to let some one at the School know where I was going. Respect was there.
I was also spanked by my Parents and the respect for my Parents is still there. I wasn't traumatized. I learned my lesson. I never had a Criminal Record, I never broke any rules, or Laws...I never stole, I never cheat. I respected everyone. I worked a really good job and a very decent good person. I learned to respect my Parents and respect others. I learned not to lie, not to cheat, not to steal, and so forth. I am glad for my Parents to teach me from right and wrong. I had a clean record still to this day. That is until CPS got involved in my Life "just because".

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:50 pm
by trappedinwreakage
Hats off to Gary Shaw !

Frustrated: we all have to answer to the lowest common denominator. If one parents says its alright for sonny to dye his hair orange, those of us that say "no" to our children are EVIL. If one parent says its alright for sissy to come home with a bull ring in her nose, those of us that say "no" are EVIL. If one parent doesnt care if her 14 year old daughter sleeps overnight at her boyfriends house, those of us that say "no way" are EVIL. If one kid gets away with talking to his/her mother with vulgar or disrespect those of us that say "now way" and act on it become EVIL If one parent says "I'd never spank my children" those of us that do are EVIL. If we say we do spank our children when they are BAD we are thrown into the same catagory as those that beat the wife and kids twice a week just for kicks and therefore we become EVIL

I never had a confrontation with the police or had them called to my house. I had a great reputation around here as a stand up guy. I was never in trouble and am the first in my family to ever be finger printed, let alone have a criminal record. I was no angel when I was young, I grew up in the 70's and did my wild oat sowing. I never disrespected anyone or inflicted any injury on anyone. I have worked everyday since graduation and in some instances I mean everyday, my record was 36 days straight. I was at one time a fine example of an all American boy. I wrestled 6 years highschool, 2 years of martial arts, wilderness trip with our dogsled team, the most honest logger around with acres and acres of manicured forests and a highly acclaimed reputation for it.

My father has his name on a plaque at my hometown schools soccor field, he was that schools gym coach before he became its principle and decated his entire life to that school system

My Grandfather has an addition to the local fire department named after him and dedicated 75 years to that community and has a plaque from the governor of the state of NY stateing as much at the dedication ceremony.

I have my name on the national registry of child abusers


and I have been far easier on my daughter than anyone ever was on me.

BTW she is a good kid and back on track as far as most teenagers go .......... wanna know why ........ because of how she was raised !

I never knew what trauma was until I met the superheros at CPS and Family Court

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:52 pm
by katgotsteve
i know first hand how it is to take in a two children from very bad situations. i know what you were probably thinking, i have thought it a thousand times. you get at your wits end and when everything else fail and does not seem to work you try the only thing left, spanking. just because you went too far doesnt mean anything, my husband who hates to spank has gone too far before, but at one time, beginning of the 90's, policy said you could spank a child as long as any mark that was left was not excessive and that it was above the knees and below the waist, but that was changed in over the past few years. i asked about it last time i got into a debate with a cps worker. our schools have gone back to corporal punishment, but cps is still far behind. spanking or any type of punishment should be up to the parent, not an agency. i seem to remember that dr. spock was the man who started this no spanking becuase you show your child violence and you take away self esteem, well from what i read, his son committed sucide. so think about that when someone starts preaching.
i dont really have any advise for you, they wont back down and they will make your life hell. the one good point is that the turn over in cps will probably work for you, becuase when your case is closed and your child returned, your thorn in the side caseworker will probably quit and the new one will be too overwhelmed to pay attention to a closed case.
hang in there and if you would like a voice to talk to and exchange stories. cry over the phone or anything, please message me and i will send you my number. i have found that just by listening to some people, i have made my case stronger, just knowing that i am not alone helps me alot.
hang in there. we are here because we are not perfect and we are just human. you are a person who was dealt a bad hand and used poor judgement, just like the rest of us. so remember this, good person bad choice. hang in there.

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:10 pm
by Frustrated

That's exactly the ideology that CPS has. If we say
"NO" to our Kids, we are Evil...we are the bad parents. The lackey Parents get praised. It is like CPS are thinking backward program but thinking perfection because their "way" are better than "you are evil" ideology. It is crazy. The CPS does the opposite if people do things right. It is like trying to debate with a broken record...over and over...but no one is hearing you.
I am not going to waste my time with CPS' Perfect Solutions. I know my truth, and I know what's RIGHT. I was raised that way to respect people and do what's right. And avoid Evil things. So I won't even go there with CPS. There are NO way of telling CPS that they are wrong. They will bully you over saying you ARE EVIL AND AN ABUSER. No buts or no how's going around it. That's it. The end. And the end for your Life and your Family is what CPS wants. CPS are RIGHT and you are WRONG! That's their way of thinking. But you and I and everyone here knows that is not always the case. :roll:

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:17 pm
by Frustrated

we are here because we are not perfect and we are just human. you are a person who was dealt a bad hand and used poor judgement, just like the rest of us. so remember this, good person bad choice. hang in there.

That's right. But the problem is that CPS thinks they are PERFECT and you being "not perfect" is a just cause to make them create cases much much easier for them. :roll: It is like being not perfect is a Crime.

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:46 am
by Momoffor
tnradmom wrote:Raising a child is a major responsibility by both parents and the community. If the community sees that a parent is having difficulty they should help not turn a blind eye.

This would be the old saying it takes a village to raise a child. The same thing that most of us and our parents were raised with. Your neighbors all helped each other out and were there for each other and each others kids.

In the 90's Hillary Clinton, stated "it takes a village to raise a child" Only in her meaning its "it takes the government to raise a child" Just think, she did this as the first lady .....what do you think she would do if she actually got to be president? Its scary

(remember that when you go to vote btw)

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:12 am
by anxiousmom

I applaud your honesty & willingness to admit that you spanked him too hard.

A one time occurance of that has probaby occured in millions of American's homes.

You have taken responsibiltiy for it, are remorseful & resolved never to do it again.

CPS should not be making it so difficult for your family to get your child back. They definately should NOT lie & exaggerate things to build their case against you! WHY can't or doesn't CPS state the TRUTH the same way that they want the parents to be truethful???!!!!

I too had CPS workers LIE & exaggerate----to me, in meetings & worst of all IN COURT & in court documents they prepared! That is SO very wrong & unethical!!!!!!!! It just boogles my mind that they do it & that they get away with it!!!

HOW can they be so blind to the child having a past history of problmes with all he went through before ya'll got him? How can they disbelieve the diagnoiss of PTS & Attachment Disorder? It's known that those things often result in children who have been abused & experienced traumatic events!

Their refusing to acknowledge what he experienced before ya'lll got him AND his diagnsoises is NOT helping him, but hurting him!!! Suppossedly they are supposse to care about the child & what is best for, how is refusing to listen too & look at the truth "helping" him???!!!!

You mentioned that the therapist said you had to get the PR fixed....what does PR stand for? (Problme?).

We rarely spanked our children, but do believe in spanking. We just had very well behaved children that rarely needed a spanking.........when they were little....toddlers, we'd lightly swat their hand if needed to keep them from doing something they shouldn't do. When they were older...preschoolers, elementary school age....they rarely got a spanking but if they did it was for doing something we felt a spanking deserved.

We read you should use a paddle....a very popular Christain chld rasising series states to use a spanking "strap"....can't think of the exact word. It is not a belt. We never got one of those. My exhusb. would use a wooden spoon. We both used our hand at times, too. I mainly used my hand. But, we never left a mark & like I said, we rarley ever spanked them.....NOT because we didn't believe in spanking, but because the situation rarely called for it.

We used time out. We sent their to their room. We grounded them from freind's houses, grounded them from the TV, the computer, game systems, etc.

I can't believe the state of TN does not recognize Attachment Disorder! It is a proven disorder! It is seen in children adopted from other countires where they have experienced abuse & neglect, as well as children in America that experienced the same. And, children that just never bound with their parents or the parents never bounded with them, etc. So, how can a state refuse to recognize it?

PTSD is also a proven disorder.

If you get all of the proof of any professionals ya'll saw & talked too & who evaluated your children BEFORE this all started with CPS, seems to me, that will help you in court. Shove it in CPS' face........if they continue to refuse to look at it & believe it in the quest to HELP your child, then that is on them & shows that they do NOT really care about your child at all! However, all of that proof WILL help you in court with the judge!

It sounds like you have a good judge who is not going to just blindly believe everything CPS says! That is to your benefit.

It will be pointless & senseless for CPS to stretch this out....but, they will! They will do it despite it harming your child instead of helping him!!! THAT is where the REAL crime is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY should do no harm! They should practice what they preach & REALLY honestly look after the child's best interest & do what is best for them emotionally & keep them safe & restore family preservation.

They should NOT stretch things out in a game of power or to punish the parents or to gain funding, etc.

My house was a hoarded messs.....I fully admit it......I have no problems with CPS having me take my children to their dads until I got it cleared out....BUT, what they did after that was wrong!!!!! To try to just switch my four children to their dads, to make that decision after ONLY working with me for 4 months when they had told me over & over "We have a year to work with you", to just blow it off as "You'll get your children on the weekend" as if THAT should make everything okay with me! Well, it is not! These children are my life. I've been with them every day since their birth (ofcourse, they have visited their Grandma, stayed at a friend's house overnight, etc....but, you know what I mean) them my NOT having my children full time is no big me, it feels like death! It IS a LOSS!!!!! This is my children!!!!!!!

I hope your case is not dragged out & that your lawyer can fight to get it resolved quickly.

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:32 pm
by momomma

I was just curious if your husband was with his son when he was very young and how he developed RAD....which usually results from a child not forming any attatchment to anyone in their very young years.

I've dealt with RAD often and I feel for you and know exactly how frustrating and lonely it can be. Until you've actually raised a RAD child you just have no idea how unreal it is. I had a barely two year old that would throw things, hit, kick, spit, bite...etc. It's so hard to parent these kids and actually spanking is absolutely ineffective with these kinds of children. These kids love to push buttons, and if you "lose it" and spank, they win.

I think you have probably done the research on this, but if you haven't I strongly encourage you to. I would also ask your therapist about some behavioral training classes offered in your area, either in person or online, to help deal with a RAD child. There are alot of techniques out there that if given enough time and patience they do work. I would also talk to your therapist, and possibly a second opinion from one, about learning more about RAD and helping you to get the documentation and help you need.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you get your little guy home soon. Feel free to PM me anytime I have some great links to RAD websites.

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:36 pm
by tnradmom
I know this is an old thread now...

My DH was not allowed to see his son the first 6 months of life. They had separated while she was pregnant. When he was not quite a year he moved out of state. So visitation was limited.
Bio mom was neglectful and he and his sister had over 50 sitters in a course of a year and a half. Both were neglected, my stepson more. There is suspected sexual abuse from the time they were with bio mom and confirmed physical abuse. (She has never had any charges against her though.)

We were set up to work with the RIP program that is a behavioral program with parents and their children CS put a stop to it in January.

An update on our case.... DCS is fully taking bio mom's side stating that his problems are because we took him away from her. (She willingly signed the papers in fact asked us to take both kids) I posted in another thread about what is at hand now...

We are at the end of our rope. We can't afford a different attorney and he won't do what we need him to. He sees no problem with letting the progression happen at DCS' schedule. (They are planning on him being there until at least February 08)

We have done the research on RAD kids and the effective parenting. We have always held back on spanking it was always the last resort.

What is so bad about this is they are still coming up with stuff that never happened. They will say that J said I did this or that and then when he would get to therapy he would say it never happened or he never said it.

Then they won't let me call and talk to him but they are letting a woman that hasn't talked to him in nearly 2 years call and talk? Plus there admittedly is tensions between us and her. We have the maturity to not talk about her to the kids, she don't. She is a liar. How is this going to be good for him? He can see me for 2 hours a week and that's it but the foster mom is trying to prevent it. I am so aggravated.

The turmoil my family is going through daily because DCS and CPS have lied.

Do forgive me for rambling.

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:53 pm
by Dazeemay
PM me as to where in TN you are?