Need help with appeal....

[pamom2crew]

I was on here a while ago, and haven't been on lately.
I finally got the paperwork to fill out for my appeal.
I'm so stressed and overwhelmed with it though, anyone thats willing to help me figure out exactly what I should do, let me know.
The hearing is july 5th, but I have 19 days to send back in the paperwork for any witnesses, evidence, etc...
I just got it yesterday.
The case was for my 6yr old going after a b-ball across the street, and someone saying she and my 3yo were playing in the road.
The plus side is, rather than 2 hearings they decided to combine them, which is great because my 3yo was never even in the road, my problem is how do I prove that? I have no actual evidence.
I can prove that its not a major highway as they say, but thats about it.
I had lawyers, that I paid for a while back, but they were not helpful or correct on things, so I fired them. and I don't trust them with my case, which is why I plan to do this on my own.
CPS had to close the case, and are unable to come to home due to no reason or suspect of child abuse. Yet I am listed in the registry of abusers, all for my kid getting a ball.
So, I really need this to be cleared.
Thanx in advance to anyone who can help.

[Marina]

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Here are some links.

http://fightcps.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4623




Do you have the link to your state's regulations for this type of thing? If you would post it, it may help.

[Frustrated]

You can use the Appeals to get your name off the Abuse Registry. It is a good time to do that.
If you can see "you can remove your name off the Abuse Registry" on the Rounds Table, all you have to to is to apply and pay some fee and get Committee to review to see if you deserved to have your name on Abuse Registry or not. This requires several members on the Comittee to review to see if you were put on maliciously and you have the proof that they put it on just because.

Because of the ball.

But this is for Canada though, I don't know if that is similar to your State though but you can use the Appeals process to prove your point.

If you don't have enough proof or enough Evidence for the Appeals Case, most likely you will lose, You need to find some Evidence and Fast. You need THAT PERSON that called the Hotline that said "your 3 yrs old was in the road" was untrue. You can SUBPOEAN THAT PERSON TO COURT and ASK QUESTION TO THAT PERSON. If you know his or her name then you can use that person and you can use that as an Appeals that this person maliciously called the Hotline just because he or she felt like it and you can Sue that person for undue hardship on your Family for false claims. By Law, you can sue the person that made false allegations against you and if that person was found that he or she indeed made false claims against you, you would have to gather the evidence which means you need to get your COMPLETE FILES from CPS that show the statement that he or she called it in. CPS most likely will cross out the name that called it in. But the Judge will make sure CPS release its name and you already knew the name and if it matches the records then you will have enough evidence for false claims.

Good Luck and I think Marina has more information on the Appeals Process cos I have no idea and never went there yet but was going to.

[pamom2crew]

see the problem is this happened last April, I requested my records and everything numerous times, yet still don't have them. I even went up there personally and asked, and they said I would have them in 2wks. So, I don't know how I'm going to get that. They will not tell me who called, nor will they let me see anything.
I do live next door to a business, and they would be willing to give a statement, so I am going to see if they will testify for me.
Here in PA, according to what I think, once I win this appeal, my name should be removed.
The thing is, CPS has no proof either way either. I mean they can get liars off the street I guess, but that would be committing perjury, so it would be ridiculous.

[Frustrated]

When you file for an Appeals, at the same time, you can file Motions to have your Case Files released to you by a Judge. Have them court ordered to release ALL CPS Files to YOU.

It is not that hard, just go to the Courthouse and get motions paperwork requesting the Judge to release CPS Files to you FOR YOUR APPEALS CASE.

Hope that would work better. I was told by a CAS/CPS Worker that I would have to get a Lawyer to have them requested released by a Judge/Court.

So that's the way to go.

[Marina]

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Do you know for a fact that your name is on the registry?
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[Frustrated]

By the Law, they are supposed to tell you, they write you a letter saying that your name is being PUT on the Abuse Registry. They were supposed to tell you. They cannot (just put your name on the registry) without telling you. If they didn't tell you, THEN you have a GOOD CASE TO HAVING IT REMOVED.

They send us the Letter saying our names are being put on the Registry. (that was about 5 or 6 years ago). Despite that our Criminal Case was DISMISSED/thrown out in Court. They kept our names regardless!

[Marina]

Here is your state's link from "Child Welfare Informatin Gateway"

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/ ... esults.cfm

Pennsylvania

Right of the Reported Person to Review and Challenge Records
23 Cons. Stat. § 6341
Any person named as a perpetrator, and any school employee named in an indicated report of child abuse
may, within 45 days of being notified of the status of the report, request the secretary to amend or expunge
an indicated report on the grounds that it is inaccurate or it is being maintained in a manner inconsistent with
law.
If the secretary grants the request, the Statewide central register, appropriate county agency, appropriate law
enforcement officials, and all subjects shall be so advised of the decision.
The county agency and any subject have 45 days in which to file an administrative appeal with the secretary. If
an administrative appeal is received, the secretary or his designated agent shall schedule a hearing.
If no administrative appeal is received within the designated time period, the Statewide central register shall
comply with the decision of the secretary and advise the county agency to amend or expunge the information
in their records so that the records are consistent at both the State and local levels.
If the secretary refuses the request for a hearing or does not act within a reasonable time, but in no event later
than 30 days after receipt of the request, the perpetrator or school employee shall have the right to a hearing
before the secretary or a designated agent of the secretary to determine whether the indicated report in the
Statewide central register should be amended or expunged on the grounds that it is inaccurate or that it is
being maintained in a manner inconsistent with law.
The perpetrator or school employee shall have 45 days from the date of the letter giving notice of the
decision to deny the request in which to request a hearing. The appropriate county agency and appropriate
law enforcement officials shall be given notice of the hearing.
The burden of proof in the hearing shall be on the appropriate county agency. The department shall assist the
county agency as necessary.
Any administrative appeal proceeding shall be automatically stayed upon notice to the department by either
of the parties when there is a pending criminal proceeding or a dependency or delinquency proceeding.
The secretary or designated agent may make any appropriate order respecting the amendment or expunction
of records to make them accurate or consistent with the requirements of this chapter.
Written notice of an expunction of any child abuse record shall be served upon the subject of the record who
was responsible for the abuse or injury and the appropriate county agency.
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When Records Must Be Expunged
23 Cons. Stat. §§ 6337; 6338
When a report of suspected child abuse is determined to be unfounded, the information concerning that
report shall be maintained for 1 year, then expunged from the pending complaint file, as soon as possible,
but no later than 120 days after the end of the 1-year period.
If an investigation of a report of suspected child abuse is unable to within 60 days to determine whether the
report is founded, indicated, unfounded, or unless within that same 60-day period court action has been
initiated and is responsible for the delay, the report shall be considered to be an unfounded report, and all
information identifying the subjects of the report shall be expunged no later than 120 days following the
expiration of 1 year after the date the report was received by the department.
All information identifying the subjects of any report of suspected child abuse, and of any report relating to
students in public and private schools determined to be an unfounded report, shall be expunged from the
pending complaint file.
All information that identifies the subjects of founded and indicated child abuse reports shall be expunged
when the subject child reaches the age of 23 years.
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[pamom2crew]

I don't know for fact, as I've never seen the registry. But the papers they sent me said I am on it, until the kids reach 23yrs of age.
I did request release of all files along with my appeals letters, all I got was finally my appeal hearing, because they denied the 1st one of expunging it w/o a hearing.
I just dont see why its going to be over a year after this happened for me to finally get my hearing that i requested so long ago.
And I have no idea of what happens in court or anything, can't afford a lawyer now, because my husband lost his job a couple months ago, and legal aid will not go against cps.
So, I really don't know what to do now.
I'm almost thinking of just letting it go and saying who cares anymore. It's just not right that I'm on there when I never even did anything at all.

[Frustrated]

Legal Aid only help if the Kids are removed from Parent's Custody. Other than that, they can't help.

You can apply yourself to see if your name is on the Registry. Just fill out the application and there are some fee to pay for seeing your name on it. Up here in Canada, we can do this. I think it costs 10 dollars in order to see names on the Registry. I don't know if it applies the same as in your State.

Why give up? You already have a date for Appeal Hearing. Why pull out? Just because you don't have the money? or you think they will win anyways?
At least you know that you had fought for your Kids and it all will go on RECORD. If you give up, no one will have any records of your Family's horror with CPS.
What happens if the next time they come to your door with new allegations, then what?

I would put the Appeals through so they won't pull a fast one next time, THERE WILL BE NO NEXT TIME.
Don't give up, you have come thus far, go forward, not backwards. Put it on Records so your Kids know you had fought for them. If you don't go on records, then you will never know what will end up with which results?
Keep on fighting.
Husband can apply for Unemployment Insurance to recur his loss. and find another Job.
You both will be on Top once again, and will pick everything up. Stay strong. Never give up. Show CPS that no CPS will mess with your Family. Period.

[pamom2crew]

My husband is on unemployment, and looking for a new job, its just frustrating dealing with everything thats going on right now plus the appeal. I had a total hysterectomy back in Nov. and am still having issues from the surgery, and soon will need more surgery, and its all just a lot, you know.
I can go fight it, but I don't want to look like an idiot when I get there and have no idea what to say or do. I mean, I know my side of the story, and what happened, but does cps get to ask me and my witnesses questions? Do I get to ask them questions? If I lose, do I get to appeal again? Is it like a custody hearing, where everyone just sits behind their table while the judge watches and they ask questions back and forth? What if they start saying lies, and the judge believes them, how do I go against that w/o a lawyer? Do I actually get to say "I object"? (my favorite thing to say, lol).
I just have no idea really on anything that may and will happen. and thats scary, plus if they bring up things about my daughters sexual abuse I am sure I will cry which always happens, and I don't want that to happen, because due to the hormone therapy I'm on since the surgery I am very emotional, so I don't want to say the wrong thing.
I think I'm just scared at this point, and that's the hardest part. Because when I get scared, I can come up with most any excuse for not doing something, you know.
Anyway...sorry to write way more info than anyone wanted to hear, but just kinda thinking out loud, and if anyone can relate or knows anything about what heppens at the appeal hearing, thats great.

[good dad]

I did request release of all files along with my appeals letters, all I got was finally my appeal hearing, because they denied the 1st one of expunging it w/o a hearing.

Do you have copies of the appeal letters and request for your files?

Title 23
Chapter 63
Subchapter C
6340 (b) states:
Release of information to subject of report.--At any time and upon written request, a subject of a report may receive a copy of all information, except that prohibited from being disclosed by subsection (c), contained in the Statewide central register or in any report filed pursuant to section 6313 (relating to reporting procedure).
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If the agency denies you access to your file, it makes it next to impossible to mount a defense on your own behalf. This would be the first point to bring up: The Department's violation of Title 23
Chapter 63 Subchapter C 6340 (b)

The burden of proof in the hearing shall be on the appropriate county agency.

Take pictures of children of the same age, crossing the same street by themselves.
Take pictures of the place she crossed, even a video of the amount of traffic that actually goes by your home, get the posted speed limit sign if it is in your favor.
Argue that the Legislatures intent when creating an Abuse Registry was not for such acts, If their intent was to include the parents of every child that crossed the street by themselves at some point in their childhood, on a Registry.

Hundreds of thousands, if not Millions, of parents nationwide, would be placed on the Registry, making it a useless tool for identifying perpitrators of Abuse.

Use the fact that the case has been closed and the things you have done to make sure it won't happen again.

Alot of these placements are overturned on Appeal, Don't give up

[Marina]

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Is this going to be in a regular court or just in front of a Hearing Officer? I had read one time that in order to do this, there had to be a Court order.

I represented my husband in an Unemployment Compensation Appeals Hearing, done informally on 3-way telephone, with me participating on our phone extension. The Officer asked each party questions, and then let Me ask the other parties questions. The Officer was Very fair, and it was pretty much as you would expect from watching TV.

I creamed the Boss, because he was the 3rd Boss since my husband left the job and didn't have a clue about anything. I also asked my husband questions. I asked him what was involved in correcting the 16 Fire Code violations, most of which he was not allowed to correct by the Employer, who had withheld funding, staff and time needed to do the job. I made a mistake in not sending in this information with the other written statement. Submit everything in writing ahead of time.

The Boss minimized what was involved in making the Corrections, and minimized the fact that my husband had to work on old air conditioners in a Nursing Home during the summer for which they don't make parts any more. Not having air conditioning in a nursing home is criminal. Removing flammable materials from the Attic involved taking 20 yrs. worth of file boxes down a pull-down ladder, which he couldn't do without help, which they denied him most of the time. This took about 50 man-hours.

There was documentation to show that he was not allowed to work overtime.

I submitted documentation from the Health Dept. which showed that the corrections STILL had not been completed 2 months later. Removing insulation from the Attic was still being done by an outside Contractor, while my husband was denied approval for bringing in outside contractors.

Another time I represented my husband in traffic court. He had made a U-Turn. We were trying to go to a restaurant on a rainy night, and were trying to turn left into a shopping center. After he was into the turn, we couldn't see any road to turn into, and there was a building right in the middle of where you would expect the road to be, so at that point he decided to make a U-Turn. You don't notice a "No U-Turn Sign" after you have passed it, and after you decide that you are going to make a U-Turn.

I researched the standard way of marking roads and placing signs. For such a large shopping center, you should expect better marking of the road. There were no white lines on the road - - it was totally black, which you couldn't see in the dark while it was raining.

There was a left-turn lane, and we had to wait for the on-coming traffic to pass before turning left. That is also a distraction from remembering a No U-Turn Sign.

This being a shopping center, this particular spot was just a few feet from a major busy intersection, so there was a lot of traffic. The black road was not at a 90 degree angle to the road we were on, but angled backwards. That is why we saw a building instead of a road. Not only that, the actual beginning of the entrance to the road was ahead of our turning place. That meant that he would have to drive headlong into heavy on-coming traffic in order to hunt for access to the entrance to the road, then angle back to drive on it.

In Court, I handed the Judge picture after picture, document after document, with accompaning statements printed in large print. You know how prosecuting attorneys can act SO RETARDED in court - - asking the innocent person over and over the same questions and trying to twist everything around. So you feel like you have to show everything from 10 different angles in order for the Judge to understand the simplest thing. They just don't seem to GET IT. The don't understand the OBVIOUS.

Well, this Judge seemed insulted by all my repetitions and Mickey Mouse presentations, and said, "Well this is the same picture repeated... Well That Is Obvious."

I made a good impression, but it didn't seem to do any good. My husband got driving school on the internet, which he would probably have gotten anyway, since he had a pretty good record.

I made one mistake though. Under Virginia case law, there was a case where a man had run a Stop sign and killed somebody. The Stop sign was covered by overgrown bushes. It was Obvious that if he couldn't see the Stop sign, then he couldn't Stop. I should have sumitted a copy of this case.

But it wasn't OBVIOUS to the retarded judge that "if you can't see a road, you can't turn into it."

Remember to say, "It is OBVIOUS..."

Some years ago, I told my children that "Sometimes you need to tell people what is obvious. People sometimes do what they do, not because they want to, but because they don't see the obvious. If they could see the obvious, then they wouldn't do it."

One time I did something for a while when I was a teenager, and nobody said anything about it. I can't remember what it was, but it may have had something to do with the way I was dressed. Anyway, somebody finally said something, and I was embarrassed. I thought, why didn't my Mother say anything to me. I would have changed it if somebody had said something and I had realized what I was doing.

Many years later, my teenage daughter told me about a boy at the local Recreation Center. She said he looked awful. His hair wasn't right, his clothes weren't right, etc. She evidently flipped her pretty little head around and told this teenage fellow how he needed to look. About a week later, this boy showed up with a hair cut and different clothes on. He looked a WHOLE lot better, according to her.

I said, "(Daughter), why in the world would you talk to a boy like that?

She said, "Well, Mama, you said to tell people what is obvious."

What could I say?
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[pamom2crew]

I have to look to see if I have copies of my letters, I know I have the certified letter receipts, but not sure if I made copies of the letters or not. I would assume that I could just use the date from the certified letter receipts and create my own copy though.
stating the obvious repeatedly is a good idea too...heck if all else fails at least it will annoy them, lol.
My kids dr. is going to try to be at court, but if she can't be then she will make a statement thats notarized for me, because that will show that I'm not lacking parental skills as cps added in their report. She knows how I am so I hope that can discredit that fact.
The judge will allow a video recording of the road and the fence I put up after? If so, will they have a vcr or would I need to bring my video camera to show them? Pictures I plan on doing, the only thing is how exactly do I show the exact location of the pictures? The 25mph speed limit sign is right before my house, but I don't know that the camera will be able to show my house and how close it is to prove that.
I am going to bring my appeal letter that you had helped me add too and rewrite before gooddad, so I can use that as a reference.
I'm just really scared, because it feels like if I miss one thing or don't say the right thing that this label will stay for 19 more years.
Thanx so much for your help, all of you.
1 more thing, should I prepare questions for me to ask, assuming I'm allowed to ask them questions? If so, any ideas on exact questions so that I can write and bring them with me as a reference guide?

[Marina]

This tells the whole timeline of a case. Look under "Sue Them" for links on the individual items.

I think you need to file as much paperwork beforehand as you can. Contact your local "Clerk of the Court."

http://fightcps.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6509

[Marina]

Here are links under "Interrogatories."

http://fightcps.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5955

Look for links under "Legal Research" related to filing a federal complaint. I think the principles are the same.

Also, ask your Clerk of the Court for local and state Rules of the Court.

[pamom2crew]

This is going to be at the Bureau of Hearings And Appeals in Plymouth, PA