Another Headache...

Are you going through an investigation now? Tell your story and get feedback here.

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tnradmom
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Another Headache...

Postby tnradmom » Tue May 15, 2007 5:34 pm

I really don't know where to post this I hope here is okay.


DCS finally got back to us about teh clinical assessments. They are sending a Dr. Gerald Kaforey out here to do them. Does any body know anything about him. We are in Tennessee and all I can find is that he was from Ohio... if anybody knows anything about him PLEASE let me know... good or bad.

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Postby Momoffor » Tue May 15, 2007 6:45 pm

I did a google and the name popped up as someone involved in sports medicine clinics

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Tue May 15, 2007 6:50 pm

That's what I found... he majored in sports medicine and minored in psychology....

This is insane... how does that qualify him to do a clinical assessment with parenting component?

UGH!!! I wish this nightmare was over!!!!

That and he was complaining because we have lives!! It's not my fault that DCS ordered this bologna... However, the children I have at home will have their needs met. I will not reschedule my baby's genetic appointment that took 4 months to get to make them happy. I thought they were suppose to work with us and "help" us.... Of course... they also aren't suppose to lie about what has happened and brainwash our children....

I just want this over, and preferably with my son home.

*cries*

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Postby snsanty » Tue May 15, 2007 7:31 pm

Be very careful what you say during the assessment because the CPS goons are paying this doctor. He probably couldn't get a job doing sports medicine (probably because it pays more & he would actually have to adhere to a code of ethics!) I got a really awful psych eval from a CPS dr. when all I did was tell the truth! Good luck!
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Postby Frustrated » Tue May 15, 2007 7:42 pm

That is what happened to me. I had these CPS Doctors and they did nothing but posted all negatives about me and my Son. and my Family. That's what happens when you tell the truth...

Never again... so I went around their backs and got a Private Doctor and they disagreed with CPS Doctors with his diagnosis. IT HELPS WHEN YOU GET YOUR OWN DOCTORS!! it helps to get a second opinon and you have that medical right.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Wed May 16, 2007 6:59 am

Dr. Kaforey is a sports medicine doctor at Vanderbilt.

DH talked to DCS this morning... after a week of trying to get a hold of them...

They are using this Dr because he is cheap. I looked up his license on the tennessee.gov site and all that he is is a licensed counselor.

As for the assessment, this is the second one. CPS had me do one in October and the "examiner" outright lied on it. She also made several conflicting statements.

Unfortunately we have to take what DCS is giving us because I can barely make ends meet as is. Our insurance won't cover the assessment because it is court ordered. The examiners we have talked to charge between $500-$700 a person. Both me and DH have to take this one. At least we know the day he will be here and DH is probably going to take that day off from work. I know not to trust him (the examiner).

I already have my therapist that has been seeing me since October working on a letter. She can't legally do an assessment. Which makes me wonder... In TN you have to be a licensed examiner, from what I can tell this guy is not.

Oh and priceless quotes.....

"Dr. Kaforey, how are you affiliated with DCS? Are you on contract?" asked DH

""Oh no, you don't have to worry about a thing, I am completely impartial." answered Kaforey.


This tells me we have to watch our backs big time. At least it's already been stated that I am suffering from anxious depression and paranoia because of what DCS is doing. I suppose I am fortunate there.

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Postby snsanty » Wed May 16, 2007 7:21 pm

[b]Are you sure your insurance won't pay for another psyc evaluation done by an independent doctor? I'm in the process of getting one done now, because the one I had in Feb. of 05 was very negative about me & said I am in the highest risk group for suicide, which is a crock! The one I'm getting now is by a Christian psychologist in CO Springs who is on our insurance plan. CPS causes people to suffer from mental problems, such as paranoia, anxiety, and depression, as well as physical problems,such a fatigue, aches & pains, sleep disorders, etc. My husband & I are going thru a lot of both. My prayers are with you!
Injustice for all in Fremont County Colorado!

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Postby tnradmom » Wed May 16, 2007 7:37 pm

We went round and round with the insurance company and they said if it wasn't a court order they would cover it but since it's a court order they won't. I would guess though if it's a second opinion that they would......

the kicker here is that DH works for the state. We have our insurance through the state.

Anyhow... the main reason we are having to do this is because during the hearing we cited that the one they did back in Oct was BOGUS. There were many inconsistencies and outright lies. In one area she said it appeared I was a loving and nurturing mother and in the next it stated that I was very negative and critical about my kids.

This is just crazy.... plus the foster mom is fighting us tooth and nail since I got unsupervised visits. The CM and the therapeutic CM both were like well now you can take him to church. The FM is VERY put out that we will be picking him up from now on at 8am on Sunday Morning. and she was telling DH that he had to be "home" by such and such because it was the only time she could pick him up. We actually got that straightened out with the CM and one that little one.

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Postby Marina » Wed May 16, 2007 8:28 pm

.

Here is something on private insurance and medicaid as it relates to the children.

http://forum.fightcps.com/viewtopic.php?t=5381

The link doesn't work anymore but the relevant text is saved on this forum.

Something in there may apply to adults as well as children. If social services pays for court ordered services, then the service providers are "agents of the court," with judicial immunity when doing evaluations, but not while doing treatment, according to what I have read, especially in Alaska.

If children in foster care have private health insurance with their birth parents, then Agencies are not supposed to charge health services to Medicaid. This is considered Medicaid fraud. Typically, social agencies do not deliver private insurance information and medical records to foster parents so that the Social Agencies can become the "third party payee" and control the health care choices. Social workers become the purchases of health services instead of the parents.

It seems to me that if you have private health insurance then having the Agency charging service fees to Medicaid would be Medicaid fraud also. It seems to me that it would be better for your private insurance to cover it. Then you could control choices and you would be the purchaser of the health services instead of the Social Agency. In that case the service provider would be liable and accountable to you, the purchase agent, for any malpractice. They know this, and will be more likely to tell you what you want to hear.

Maybe you could consider telling your insurance provider that you know it is Medicaid fraud for Medicaid to end up paying for services if you already have health insurance, and if they pressure you into accepting the services paid for by Medicaid then they are conspiring to commit Medicaid fraud.

.

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Postby mom2boys » Thu May 17, 2007 1:05 am

I remember seeing a web site that was for social worker training...it was a pdf file that discribed in detail how to 'profile' a abuser. I read it and became so mad, one hand it said, look for signs of a 'dedicated parent' it may be a sign of a 'control issue'..then went on to say, if parent appears to respond 'to leasurely', may be a sign of 'attachment disorder'...??? you really cant win...can you find a 'professional' who can help you prepare for the double edged interrogation??, or get a physciatrist thru your insurance to help you 'cope' ie..also help you prepare and understand how this Dr. will (try to twist your words) interview you?

GET IT ALL ON TAPE!!!!! Borrow, buy, ebay, get a hidden camera.
I read about a legal way to record...take 2 recorders, turn both on, and put 1 away out of site, then proceed to tape the event to be recorded, when your asked to 'turn it of'....simply state, "Iwould rather not'-as your saying this, quietly turn off the obvious recorder, do not say anthing else and begin your interview.

The result when you play back your 'evidence' is a very clear tape of a conversation where you were asked to turn a recorder, and your response was "i would rather not"..and then your interview appears to continue without conflict. Knowledge is power. It just becomes a barganing chip. And the media is hungry.

This is not legal advise, but at least you will have a record.

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Postby tnradmom » Thu May 17, 2007 9:44 am

With my son, the assessment was done with the Doctor we wanted. Our insurance paid for it.

With mine and DH's assessments, the insurance will not cover the assessements because they are court ordered and it will put their doctor in a bind. I said but it's a court order and they said that the court orders don't cross state lines and the insurance company is in a different state.

DCS is paying for the assessments. We do not have $1400 to do it on our own. If I did I would. I have $1050 in court fees that have to be paid or I go to jail, so we are in a bind there. (thankfully we are on a payment plan)

My problem right now is that everything I am finding states that in order to do a clinical assessment you have to either be a licensed psychologist or a licensed psychological examiner. An MHSP-LPC is not licensed to do the assessments.

I am a controlling parent by their standards. They have pictures of my chore charts and the laundry schedule. Thankfully they didn't see the family rules and such.. not that they are bad but because it would just add more fuel to the flame. As the CPS worker took pictures she made the comment, you have your house in order, this is the cleanest house I have been in in a long time. It must be because you are organized.

My therapist has told me what to do. I have taken several personality assessments online and have gotten used to the questions so that they won't hit me offensively. I am not worried about mine. It's DH I am worried about. She told me that both of us should take the tests several times between now and the assessment for multiple reasons. 1) get used to the questions 2) be aware of how we are answering. 3) to see if we get the same result every time. It's not to cheat the system but it is to see what we should expect. The other thing she said was that we need to make sure to be calm and collective during the assessment.

I think the recording is a good idea. The problem is my camcorder only goes up to 90 minutes. I can use my PC... I would just ave to move it into the living room. But it's a good idea... I need to make sure to have the voice if nothing else right? I wonder if I can get my laptop to do it.... thank you for the idea.

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Postby Roni Shawn » Thu May 17, 2007 11:49 am

Just an FYI: It happened to me too....
God is my light...My Strength...My LIFE!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I thought CPS was created to help keep families together, not rip them apart!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roni Shawn :)

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mom2boys
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Postby mom2boys » Thu May 17, 2007 5:10 pm

Found the tennessee web site DCS guid book

http://www.state.tn.us/youth/dcsguide/p ... kmarks.pdf


Page 15, item 1...
--1. Agency personnel meet all applicable state licensing or certification requirements for their agency and use of professional titles. The agency must obtain proof of licensure.

It covers a little, but I would try to find out as much about the requirements for examiners as possible and 'just run it by them'..in writing...see if he meets their guides...let them verify it to you...then they are on the hook if things 'fail'....

Their is always good stuff on these counties websites and their guide books...dig dig dig......also dont forget to check the county guide for social services, usually I have found that their guide book is the basis for the DCS guide books...DCS policy books cannot over rule county guidlines.

~its not legal advise, its knowledge and thats power.

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Postby anxiousmom » Fri May 18, 2007 6:37 am

What happened to cause cps to be involved in your lives & the children removed?

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Fri May 18, 2007 7:38 am

It's in the guilty of rules and discipline thread... Essentially I did not know it was illegal to spank. They only took my step son. We still have his full blooded sister and my 4 bio children. I was wrong in spanking my stepson on the bottom and leaving a bruise. I was wrong, admitted I was wrong and completely cooperated with the investigation. Then in court they cited I was combative and that I had a history of abuse. This is not true...

I have never abuse nor neglected my kids. Any of them. It's been 8 months since J was removed. and there is no end in sight.

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Postby Frustrated » Fri May 18, 2007 3:03 pm

Did you check to see if the State allows Spanking Law? it varies from State to State. Certain States allows spanking, even here in Canada. Canada has Spanking Law in effect right now.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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Postby Momoffor » Fri May 18, 2007 4:57 pm

regardless of if spanking is allowed in the state or not, she left a mark and that in their eyes is abuse. (from what I could gather from my 'parenting classes' even a red mark is a mark of abuse. so in otherwords, you cant do squat but time outs. and those are about as effective as the reform on child protection was in the 90's.

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Postby Frustrated » Fri May 18, 2007 6:53 pm

True. CPS will tell you can't leave a mark. that's it.

I remember one Worker told us we can do it but don't leave a mark.

There are so many rights of a Parent. Religion rights. Parental Rights. and the list goes on and on....

I know this is a slippery slope. Many people tell you, you can't do that, and can do this...the World trying to change the entire image, and their ways. They try to change your ways.

Our cultures, values, traditions of our ancestors never change. It sticks for centuries and passed on and on...CPS tries to change its entireity.

Just my opinion. It is like trying to change for WHO you are....but who you are is just unique and different from others. That's what makes the World different. Many people have conflicts because they know their ways are wrong. It is all about common sense.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Fri May 18, 2007 7:07 pm

From what I understand of the law the corporal punishment loophole is only if the child is over 6. J was 4 at the time. So if you spank a child under 6 in TN you are committing child abuse.

Tragic thing is that 85% of people I inform the law look at me as if I grew an extra eye or something. Even people that don't believe in spanking think it's crazy.

I also think it's in VA that as long as the mark left is on the buttocks or above the knees on the back of the thighs it's not considered abuse unless it's excessive.

Anyhow... we get to take J to church for the first time in 8 months Sunday. I am happy. He's been asking to go and now he gets to. I just pray that he doesn't go ballistic. I already talked to the children's director and told her that if something happens we have to have it in writing and signed by those that witnessed it. She agreed. She's new and doesn't know J. The old director left at the end of the year. So here's to praying that Sunday goes well.

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Postby Roni Shawn » Fri May 18, 2007 8:21 pm

WOW! Well, in Oregon, and I presume Washington as well, you are allowed to spank--as long as you do not use any objects other than the hand, and there are NO marks left, period. I am guilty of that myself. I have left marks several times. I have 3 children. But its hard to tell how hard you are spanking, to get the childs attention, and not leave a mark. I know this dont sound good, but I dont mean it in a bad or abusive way: Sometimes it may take a good whoopin to get the childs attention and to get them to actually take your advice or command/order. Plain and simple. Its the truth. And I know that the majority of yall out there would agree with me. But dont take that comment in the way that I am abusive. Im far from it. I have learned from those mistakes, a long long time ago. But it did get their attention too. So its a catch 22. really.
God is my light...My Strength...My LIFE!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I thought CPS was created to help keep families together, not rip them apart!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Roni Shawn :)

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Postby Roni Shawn » Fri May 18, 2007 8:36 pm

Let me say, that the marks I left were either red or they were little tiny bruised, almost the size of a finger print....Just thought Id throw that in here :shock:
God is my light...My Strength...My LIFE!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I thought CPS was created to help keep families together, not rip them apart!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Roni Shawn :)

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Postby Frustrated » Sat May 19, 2007 12:48 pm

Even a Judge who agrees to Spanking Law for Canada, he stated that there are too many juvenile kids on the loose rampant causing so much trouble, stealing, mischief, robberies, vandalism, drugs, and whatnots. The Judge stated that these kids were never spanked, and he stated that they needed to be spanked so they will get good behaviors and would not cause all of these crimes. That's the Judge's belief. All of that was on the website. You can google Spanking _ Canada 2004. You will find the Judge's statements on that website as well. if you can't find it, I will try and find it and post it on there. Of course the Youth and Child Services objected, and wants this repealed. Right now, they are working to get it repealed while the 40% of the teenagers are in Criminal Courts who committed crimes as we speak right now. It is rising because they were told not to do anything, and these kids are on the loose. Most of them are in juvenile detention centers like small prison for kids which is pretty sad.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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tnradmom
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Postby tnradmom » Mon May 21, 2007 7:29 am

So, what we have been told by others online and off is that doing the clinical assessment can actually open the door for them to take the rest of the kids... Is this correct? I need to know ASAP. DH has already contacted the lawyer on an emergency need. I won't let them take the rest of my kids.

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Postby Marina » Mon May 21, 2007 8:13 am

.

I think it all depends on the mental health professional, but you can't know ahead of time what will happen. The counselor may be real nice, so you open up and tell things, and it turns into a fishing expedition to find out things against you. Then they twist the truth give a bad report to Social Services and the court.

Other times the counselor will be fair and support the parents, but Social Services ignores their recommendations and still does what they want to do.

And if a parent does not cooperate, then that is held against them also.

There are no right answers.

My friend's lawyer said that Social Services and the counselors write up anything and everything, but it is essentially all hearsay and nobody believes anything until there is a live witness in the courtroom.

He said that in a criminal case, the police may accuse a person of robbing a bank, but the accused may have been somewhere else at the time. The charges don't mean anything unless some valid evidence is presented in court. He said this after we confronted him about challenging all the lies in the caseworker's reports.

Some parents cooperate until they have had enough abuse and then stand up to the system. Others gamble and keep going until they reach that point of being fed up and finally say, NO, no more. Nobody can tell some other parent when to keep cooperating and when to stop cooperating.

For some parents, cooperating was the only thing that got them good results. For other parents, cooperating backfired seriously and it took them a year or more to undo the damage. Nobody can advise another parent on this. The parent has to use their own judgement at that particular time. That is why members of this forum cannot advise you. They are not in your shoes, and they don't know all the facts. And even then, there is no way to predict the outcome.

.

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Postby Marina » Mon May 21, 2007 8:57 am

.

Keep in mind that a "clinical assessment" is a test. There are 2 types of evaluation or assessments.

One is a forensic evaluation, or fact-finding evaluation. If a counselor asks a patient if they hallucinate, then the patient will probably say, No. But if the counselor interviews the family and neighbors, then he can find out the facts. For a forensic evaluation, the counselor is supposed to investigate collateral sources, such as medical records, etc. A forensic evaluation is usually used for sexual abuse.

If a written alcohol evaluation questionaire asks a client if they feel they have an alcohol problem, then that test question does not distinguish between the alcoholic who denies his problem and the person who has never taken a drink. I think the term they use is that the test question is not "specific" or the test lacks "specificity."

There are various criteria for determining the validity of a testing method. For example, the breathalyzers legally authorized in some states cannot screen out mouthwash or diabetes because the test only covers a certain frequency range. Other states have upgraded the machines and are more accurate.

Another criteria is cause and effect. In education, if a child cannot recognize a picture of scales used to weigh something, then there are several possible reasons for this. The child could have a learning disability. The child may not have been taught to recognize a picture of scales. Or the child may know what scales are but may not recognize that the scales in the picture are the type used in a grocery store. The child might think of scales as being bathroom scales.

In my friend's case, the report written by the caseworker said that the psychiatrist diagnosed her with "alcohol induced depression." This was after a 20 min. visit, where my friend got her needed medications. Any mother would be depressed if she had several children kidnapped and had her parental rights terminated. If she drank some, then having children in foster care and losing her home may make her even more stressed and vulnerable to alcohol consumption. But it is an insult for the doctor to diagnose the depression as induced by alcohol. If she gives up alcohol then she will not be depressed any more? That is retarded.

A "treatment evaluation" is different. A court has determined that a person is psychotic or something and then the court orders treatment. The counselor may ask the patient questions every week, and during those times the evaluation is a clinical assessment for the purpose of deciding which type of treatment to order - - whether it is medicine, individual therapy, group counseling. The assessment is not engraved in stone, but is subject to change weekly. If the medicine causes side effects, then it may be changed. If the patient does not benefit from group counseling and disturbs the other members, then the assessment may result in a recommendation not to have group counseling at this particular time, etc.

Another issue to consider is How Does the Test Work?
Legally, a person is entitled to know how a test works. For these mental health tests, insurance companies decide what questions will be asked and how many positive responses will result in a positive diagnosis of depression, anxiety, etc.

http://psyweb.com/Mdisord/DSM_IV/jsp/dsm_iv.jsp

There are 2 sets of information. One is the raw data from the test. The other is the individual interpretation of the particular counselor. One member of this forum got a very distorted report, and he requested the raw data that the psychological report was based on. This evidence was helpful in court.

.


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