Help

[pebbles04]

wanted to ask someone if they knew what I could do..I have been through a prior investigation..my kids were taken and placed up for adoption..well two of them and currently have rights to one as she lives with her dad and recently lost my one due to reasons of NOT being able to get to the state she was in...but I recently had a baby. When they asked me the questions of how many births I had of course I had to answer the questions...and when I did they become nosy and began to ask questions about the situation...like oh you got your hands full and when I said they dont reside with me they then asked me where they were..hell I was in labor therefore I didnt feel the reason for the questions. So I told them that I was not getting into it at the moment..why the hell would I considering the fact I was in active labor. Well anyways..so there was a nurse that must have investigated my situation and found out about my other kids so they turned around and called CPS and then I got a call when my son was 2 weeks old. The report that came in was that she was concerned as she THOUGHT that I didnt have my other kids due to social services getting involved and taking them. First off how would you just automatically assume that and not think that maybe the child resided with the father due to a custody battle.?? Secondly where was the concern...there wasnt as they didnt see my interaction with my child. They just took it upon theirselves to start stuff due to past history. Well anywho..I got a call from an agency that said that Social Services in the city I am in does NOT come out they send these agencies that advocate for them and if they see nothing they report there was nothing and the opposite effect. So I let them come here while my sister was here with me considering my past history I know how deceitful they can be. So while they were here they asked if I wanted their services and I told them that I didnt really want it but that if it was going to be beneficial then I didnt have a problem with it but that trust was a factor. They told me that due to a hearing that I have with my oldest daughter in another state that it would be good for me to accept services so they could come out and see me interact with my child and see my living conditions and so on and so on and then write me a character witness or something similar and it should help my case with my daughter. So I jumped at the chance to except their services as they didnt want to let up anyways. Well within a week and a half they started acting a little strange. They told me that the past history was NOT going to matter because it was so long ago and so much had changed in my life. I got married last year to a great guy and he is active duty navy and then I have a very supportive family as well as in-laws...I have had a great experience with them. And not to mention we do not live in some public housing or anything and we have money (not to do all this stuff though) and we are not getting any form of state aide. I am not into drugs...I am not sleeping around or selling myself. My son is taken care of ...breastfed...and he has gained quite a bit of weight...and then he has so many clothes and they are clean. My house is clean and there is NOTHING wrong with a thing. They began to come out and tell me that I had to do a psychological eval. and a parenting eval. I know how those work and I am not willing to do those due to lack of communication and the fact that I know that people get stiffed all the time. So I asked her if I was a founded case and she told me that no I was not, but that they recommended that I do those. Then when I said what if I dont want to do them she told me that the social worker would probably court order it. Mind you I am NOT a founded case. So I made sure of that..so she called the social worker one day and she asked her if it was going to impact things if I decided not to do this....the social worker (as she says) said that she wanted me to do those and I had to..not that it was recommended anymore. Then she told me that they were going to contact the agency of CPS that I had been through in a different city to inquire on what happened before...yet again keep in mind they told me that I was not founded and this is all a volunteer thing because I didnt have to accept their services and did to make sure that they didnt think I was resistant ( as they have used in the past) and that it would be beneficial to my older daughters case. They then told my husband after returning from his deployment that we needed to go and file for custody..and that right there sent up a red flag to me. So basically what I am trying to do is ask some people if they see something suspicious about this entire thing as I do or if there is nothing for me to worry about? I reside in virginia so if there is anyone that knows this area better then please let me know. I just wanted to get some input from some people. Sorry I havent been on here lately but when I lost my kids I didnt feel that I had time to get on here because I am still fighting that..and ran out of time..you know not enough time in a day...
Please someone help me...
Jenn

[Marina]

.

Congratulations on the new baby. I am glad you are doing well in your new family. I know you love your new baby. I am glad to know that they let you take the baby home from the hospital.

I can see how you are trapped in your situation. Maybe some of the others can respond, but personally, in my opinion, since you have lost other children before, I think you have done the best that you can under the circumstances.

Why would you need to go and file for custody of your older child right now, and how is that the business of social services? Yes, that does sound suspicious.

One idea would be to get the psychological evaluation and parenting classes on your own, through your husband's military insurance. If the results are good, just keep them to show the judge if they take you to court. It seems that they do have the upper hand here since you have lost children in the past. Technically they don't have to give a parent in that situation services. But I don't know how good the services are, when it is just a fishing expedition and the therapists twist everything around to make you look incompetent.

.

[pebbles04]

No with the custody they are talking about my new baby that my husband and I have to go and file for. I dont know but things seem a little odd to me...and yes you are right they like to nose around and cause all kinds of problems but realistically they cant really do a thing ...i just got an email from my husband where he told me that I am not to sign another thing because someone came and told him who the agency that these people are involved in..and they are with CHKD (Children's Hospital for the King's Daughters)...and he said that we are NOT to sign another thing with them until we speak to Navy Legal. I am not sure who it is that he spoke to or what all they told him cuz he was quite vague but it has become a little concerning to me..that is for sure. well I wanted to ask some advice so I hope that someone else can help me as well and someone also from this area. BTW I am in Hampton Roads area of Virginia...

[good dad]

Do you live "on base"? If so it would be handled by a military social services agency not the normal CPS agency.

More often then not, they don't have enough credible evidence to get a judge to court order evals and try to coerce you into doing them instead. Then from what is gathered in those evals they now have enough evidence to open a case

If it were me, I'd call their bluff and explain to them:

You can request a hearing and present your evidence to the judge as to why you feel these evals are warranted, I can explain why I feel they aren't needed and the judge can decide if they should take place..

The worst thing that will happen is you have to take them instead of just giving in and taking them because they ask..
You are forcing them to go through the proper legal channels and making them work to convince the judge for the evals..

Openly tape record any conversations you have with them. They will straighten up and play be the rules if they know their words are saved to be used in court.

[pebbles04]

It is from the outside agency...we do not live on post (base). we live off of base and I gave birth to our son in a non military facilitated hospital...that is why the woman thought that she should take it upon herself to research me. The lady from this agency says that they are only following up on the call and that she could not have known a thing and that is bull because I didnt tell her a thing and most nurses are not going to automatically assume that because a parent doesnt have their kid or kids that they lost them to social services. They are first going to think that there was a custody battle.
I know with Evals though that they try to use them to their advantage...that they try to determine or make you look bad and say that you have something and that you are not equipped to take care of a kid. I know that there is nothing psychologically long with other then possibly suffering post partum depression and not even that. My son is two months old tuesday so if that was the case that is not something to look bad on me. I just find it funny that if I am not a founded case that they are trying to reach an awful lot on this...

[Marina]

.

These people run an adoption agency.

http://www.chkd.org/WTG/07Spring/Adoption.aspx

Could it be that they are wanting you to give up your child for adoption?

Do they know that you didn't voluntarily give up your other children for adoption, but against your will, and you definitely don't want to give this one up?

If they are talking about custody of your new baby, are they talking about you turning custody over to them voluntarily?

This sounds suspicious to me.

I have never heard of Virginia contracting out social services. In fact, I don't even think that is legal. I don't think these people have any legal authority to ask to come into your home or do any services.

I would avoid them. They don't appear to be a government agency.

If you got a call saying that Social Services sends out private agencies to check on children, then they are lying. They do not contract out the job of "Protective Services."

If a parent wants to voluntarily give up their child for adoption, then yes, Chesterfield County partners with an adoption agency, for example. And after a parent's rights are terminated, the localities can turn custody of the children over to an adoption agency, and let the adoption agency handle facilitating an adoption.

But if you do not have an open case with Virginia Department of Social Services, or the local govt. agency, then I would run like crazy from these people.

If you have an abuse and neglect case against you, then Social Services does not have to work with you in trying to keep your child, since you already lost children to the system. But they can't just send over an adoption agency to snatch your chlid for no reason. They would still have to take you to court and you would still be entitled to a trial before your parental rights are terminated.

And since you have re-married, your husband is entitled to keep the child even if they don't like you. The "reasonable efforts" to prevent removal has to apply to him, even if they don't have to offer it to you.

.

[pebbles04]

the biggest problem with all this is...well if I decide not to accept the services and do the psychological and stuff and decide to make them court order that then they are going to use that I am resistant..but I want to do it through someone of our choice if i am going to do it at all...but when my husband asked the lady if we could do it through someone of our choice they stated that no they were too expensive and that military insurance does not cover it..and what struck me as odd with that is I could swear that they do and so I called me mom and my mother (who works through the navy) told me that is bull because they DO cover mental health and stuff but you have to go to their providers of course...nothing new there...so that also made me think that they were up to no good with that. I mean why would you tell my husband that we have to do and then not give us the option of doing it through whom we want it done through. Also I have read things before from people on here where social services has pretty much instructed the party they are NOT after that if they did not separate or divorce the one they were after that they would take the kid or kids from both of them. I thought that the custody thing was a little weird too. Then a couple of days later the lady called back to the house and asked me if we were still going out of town and I said yes we were getting ready to leave that day and she asked if she could talk to my husband to inform him that they were NOT trying to take my kid from us and that they were wanting to reassure his mind and so I said ok..I handed him the phone. While we were driving up to NY he was quite distant and wasnt talking and when I finally asked him what was wrong he said that he was worried and how did I go on with everyday life without worrying about stuff...and I said what are you referring to and he mentioned the stuff with the lady coming to our house and my past experience..and I explained to him that you can not let things that you can not control take over your life...you have to learn to go on and with my other kids I had lost them and there was nothing I could do about it and therefore I had to move on and didnt really have a choice. That I could either move on and be happy and think of them all the time or that I could go on for the rest of my life feeling sorry for myself and feeling miserable and still not have them. Then he mentioned that she had mentioned a couple more times that he needed to go down to the courts and file for custody..and when I asked when he said when she called and wanted to talk to him. So he has been worried about this as much as me hence the fact that he is going to his command and people in his division and talking to them about it. I dont know what to think..I am confused..they are telling me that they are advocaters of social services and that they are not trying to do a thing and that I can tell them to go away at any time, but I just kind of feel like they wont go away and that they are borderline harassing...

[anxiousmom]

It sounds like they are trying to get your dh to get custody of the baby & you NOT have custody of the baby.

I don't mean to be rude, but can you please use paragraphs? It is very hard on the eyes to read a long thing all running together. Many people won't even try to read it.

Don't sign anything. Force them to go to court to get you to do anything.

In your state, can having lost other children be a reason they can TPR you with future children? It is in TX. Did you loose your other children due to cps? Were your parental rights terminated?

[pebbles04]

Well that is kind of what I told him, but of course he didnt know what to think of it or at least he didnt say a thing. I told him that I was not going to be able to stay with him and that my finally being happy was going to be yanked away from me. He didnt say anything so I am not sure what that means. I lost all the kids and this is the first time I have been even somewhat happy since then and I dont want to lose it, but I have this feeling that is what they are trying for.

I only signed one paper and well I asked them if they would allow me to make a copy of it so that I had it and they said that was no problem and let me do just that. So I have a complete full copy of it. Now given I dont understand all the stuff that goes into things, but I do know that I read it as she was reading it to me and explaining things to me and well I didnt think they were trying to stiff me for that reason.

In pertains to the entire state thing I dont know, but I was told that NO that is not something that they can use against you. That with my being 5 years older and going from my early 20s to my late 20s and then getting married and everything else should definately change the situation. My mom must have done some research at some point and realized that technically they can NOT use a past experience as leverage to take other kids. That would mean that I would NEVER be able to have another baby for the rest of my life and they can not run your life like that. They run it enough when they do what they did to me. Yes I dealt with CPS and Yes I lost my rights, but that is a little complicated to get into now. There is a link *unless it is not working* on my profile and if you go there you can read whatever you want to read that is in pertains to my past case. But even the people that came out here told me that I was not a founded case and I can tell them to go away at any given time and also that they can not use my past as a reason to do a thing with this one. They also keep trying to assure me that they are NOT trying to take my baby away from me. But with the stuff that has happened before I kind of really dont believe that.

[pebbles04]

I know that i am going through a custody situation with my oldest daughter whose father filed a termination because they found out somehow that in their state alot of times the judge will rule against a person if they have lost other kids in the past. So they decided to file at that point and I think just out of trying to stiff me because someone made them aware of that rule. They still have to give you a fair trial but in the long run they normally rule against the person who has lost kids prior whether it be in a different state or the same.

[anxiousmom]

If I were you, I'd tell them to go away & I would not have ANYTHING else to do with them!!!

If they want to be in your life, let them go to court & seek a court order from a judge.

DON'T willingly let them stay involved in your life!!!! It won't turn out good.

Can ya'll move? Even to a different apt. or house?

[pebbles04]

moving to a different apt at this current point in time is not possible. We are in an apt and our lease is not up til the end of August..and god knows I want to get out of the state but my husband is stuck here with the navy for a bit yet. Dont know what we are going to do in pertains to all that stuff. My mom told me to have him ask for a reassignment but he hasnt jumped to do that all too quick..I dont know why!!! I am just not sure what to do and I know if I dont let them in then they will try to use that to their advantage and if I do then they are going to do the same thing...so it is like I dont win either way.

[pebbles04]

moving to a different apt at this current point in time is not possible. We are in an apt and our lease is not up til the end of August..and god knows I want to get out of the state but my husband is stuck here with the navy for a bit yet. Dont know what we are going to do in pertains to all that stuff. My mom told me to have him ask for a reassignment but he hasnt jumped to do that all too quick..I dont know why!!! I am just not sure what to do and I know if I dont let them in then they will try to use that to their advantage and if I do then they are going to do the same thing...so it is like I dont win either way.

[pebbles04]

now the lady calls me this morning and tells me after all the stuff that she has done and all the times they have sat here and tried to get me to do these psychologicals and stuff that they are closing out my case. She said that she wanted to come out and have me sign the paper and the treatment plan to close out the case and give me a treatment plan. What should I do!? Makes no sense to me. Then I told them that my husband was not here and he couldnt sign anything and she told me that they dont need him to sign a thing. Now is that cause I have been the only one that has signed a thing or is that because they are after me. They didnt have him sign a thing of course in the beginning he was deployed and he just got back on the 23rd. So what am I to do? MY friend is telling me that I need to ask her if I can make a copy of it and then show my husband and then sign it and get back to her..she said it had to be done before the 15th. And then she said that they are doing transfers in the social services office and that they need to close me out before the 15th. MY friend told me if she denies me the right to copy it W/O my signature then they are trying to con me. I dont know what to do about this...I am confused.

[katgotsteve]

they always want you to sign stuff, but never want to give you a copy. i would ask her to mail you a copy so you could go over it and then you will get back to her about signing it. that you dont feel comfortable about signing anything without your husband/family reading it first esp. based on your past experience. if she tells you no she cant do that, then just tell her that you will not sign it. being she says the 15th, that is probably bs, they dont do anything in a timely manner, so why should you do it on their schedule. tell them after you read it and your family reads it you will decide whether or not to sign it. you also need to get a support system in place, basically get friends or relatives around you at all times when you meet with this woman or anyone from this agency.
please be careful. the scope of cps is often vague and they often make up rules as they go along, these rules are not normally rules at all and are ways to strip you of your rights. i hope all is well for you and your baby. dont get bullied by them.

[pebbles04]

I have told her that she could come by and what not so that I could read the paperwork and she said that they needed it done because the social workers are transferring as of the 15th. Cuz I asked her what the key was behind the 15th. That is what she told me. I dont know what to think and with the stuff that happened with my being conned in the past it is really hard to believe the stuff that they say. She left a message on my voicemail and it said that they were closing out because we had cooperated. And I dont know but things just dont seem right to me because they have been adamant about things with evals and then all of a sudden talking about not doing them and that we are okay.

I do have a support system, but I live outside of the city that I used to live in so all my friends and family are on the other side of the water and of course my husband is navy so he is working during the day when she decides that she wants to come out. They say that they dont need a thing from him and I would think as a couple that they do. I dont know...I DO know that I am not signing a thing til I can get a lawyer in on it. She said I could copy it when she was here but I still dont know whether to trust what they say and what not. They have decieved me before in the past so I am not sure.

[mom2boys]

BEWARE! Somthing is not right and you know it. Being that you were told :
1. you were unfounded....THEY NEEDed TO GO AWAY then!!
2. they said they are closing your cased out...great..CLOSE IT.

ITS UP TO THEM TO CLOSE A CASE WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE IT. I dont know about signing laws. They have chosen to tell you they are closing...IT SEEMs ODD THAT YOU HAVE TO SIGN SOMTHING AT THIS POINT...!!...(UNLESS they are up to somthing..!!!!!
Can you call their ombudsman and 'run this by them'.

In their policy book, it will outline 'closing a referral'..that will tell you, in case they forget..the process to close your case. In our state, service plans are OPTIONAL if their are no further actions warranted. GET COPIES FIRST, if you can, politely stall their time frame...in regard to their dead line..stall...Im betting they are more than happy to extend the deadline if they think you will be willing to be a pushover at a later date ....they are sneaky..be careful.
Best tip of all: read their policy guide ..then let them know that 'in this particular situation'...it states....(most likely..that they should go away).. and then let them put thier reply in writing to you. Again, if they are acting out of policy, they will either refuse to write it down, or 'change their offer'...eveil!

[Marina]

.

It seems to me that you are being manipulated. Who are these people anyway - Social Services or Children's Hospital for the King's Daughters? What legal authority do they have?

I would think twice about even meeting with these people. I don't see how you have to meet with these people at all. Maybe something will come up and you won't be there that day. One idea would be to ask them to mail you the papers.

The papers that you have, does it say, Department of Social Services or what?

.

[pebbles04]

I mean I know that when I went through the other city which is right across the water there was nothing I really signed other then to sign a paper to accept a contract to accept services prior to them taking my kids. I didnt sign a thing to have them close out another case they got a call on and neither did a friend of mine that had been called on under false pretences...she had nothing to sign. So yes it does seem a little odd to me that they are asking me to sign something if they are clearly telling me that it is unfounded. I have yet to understand their entire concept. Being I went through this all before the only thing that has changed is that I am not single and there is more then one party involved in this entire thing. Well aside from the obvious...the not living in state aide housing or receiving state aide and of course him having the best of everything which I was NOT able to give to my other kids.

But one of the strangest parts of it all is that when I talked to her this morning she was pretty adamant about coming out today to get me to sign this paper and she asked if she could come out in 15 to 20 minutes. I told her that was fine (not that I would have signed it, but just to see the paperwork) and she said ok. Then right before the conversation was over she made a comment that she would call me back in 30 minutes because her supervisor wanted to talk to her about something and she had to figure out what it was and she would give me a call back before she left and what not. Well that was like at 11 this morning and it is now almost 3 so I am confused on that.

We are not going to do a thing else until my husband and I talk to the navy legal department. I figure that they shouldnt have an issue with that considering that is well within my rights. They have no grounds of doing a thing other then the past which is just that..my past. And they have been here and seen that he is healthy and I have made them aware of everything. Doctors visits and such. So it is not that i have been keeping secrets from them. We have fully cooperated with them. MY son has more then plenty of clean clothes to wear..he is clean & his is breastfed and has grown. He was born 6lbs 9oz and is now at 2 months old already almost 11lbs. So he is growing. I dont know what their deal is but they need to leave me alone.

[pebbles04]

.

It seems to me that you are being manipulated. Who are these people anyway - Social Services or Children's Hospital for the King's Daughters? What legal authority do they have?

I would think twice about even meeting with these people. I don't see how you have to meet with these people at all. Maybe something will come up and you won't be there that day. One idea would be to ask them to mail you the papers.

The papers that you have, does it say, Department of Social Services or what?

.

Actually that is what I was saying. They say that they are an agency that social services sends out to advocate for them. I dont know..that seemed a little odd to me when they first started to come out here. But also aside from that I dont think that a single one of the papers says social services on it now that I think of it. But the original paperwork I signed they allowed me to make a copy of it...so I have copies of the paperwork I have signed since day one. I would have to find it to see if it says anything about social services on it.

[Marina]

.

If they come, do not let them in. You have to be strong. Close the shades, blinds and curtains, turn out the lights. Turn the TV off, unless you think the baby will make noise and they will hear it.

Legally, you do not have to talk to them. Legally, you do not have to let them in. Your child is not in imminent danger, so they have no cause to ask the court for a search warrant.

If they ring the bell, just keep telling yourself You do not have to answer it or open the door.

READ MY LIPS

These people are running an adoption agency - child trafficking.

If you do a web search for "children's hospital of the king's daughters" + adoption, you will see that they bring in babies from China for Americans to adopt. How do you know that they don't have an adoptive family lined up for your baby in China?

Say this over and over -

I will not let them sell my baby.
I will not let them sell my baby.
I will not let them sell my baby.

If they come, get on the computer and tell us what is going on, and someone may be able to talk you through this.

Be strong and don't give in.

Let us know what happens.

.

[mom2boys]

Unless they have a signed WARRANT-DO NOT LET THEM IN...and if they have a warrant, call the signing judge, and let them sit on the porch till you verify the validity of the warrant.

YOU MUST FIND OUT WHO YOUR DEALING WITH. The woman you are talking to...her number, can you do a reverse search...?
Tell her you want to mail her somthing, check the address.

If you are dealing with VA dcfs/cps their policy book states the actions they are to be taking.
From what I have read, your right, this makes no sense. You MAY in FACT not be dealing with cps....????
FIND OUT

[Momoffor]

Do you live "on base"? If so it would be handled by a military social services agency not the normal CPS agency.

NOT TRUE.

When my case was going on I called JAG in DC to find out the ins and outs.

I used to have it posted on the Virginia Boards but there is an Attny in Va Beach that fights against CPS and he would be your best bet. Unfortunatly, that info is no longer on the Virginia forums. I will research it more for you. What locality are you in? Hampton is bad, Va Bch is bad as well. Norfolk is so so and I havent heard anything about Chesapeake CPS.

The military might do more harm than good. talk to either Jag or Navy legal before anything. They really wont get involved though. I will warn you about this.

[Momoffor]

BTW, when all of my crap was going on, my husband was deployed to Iraq. They did their case on me, I had completed what they wanted, as they said once I completed it they would close it. After I did everything, they then said they couldnt close the case because my husband hadnt done thier services. Knowing full well he was in Iraq, and wouldnt be back for some time. Just be very careful Pebbles. Especially if you are in VA Beach!

[Frustrated]

That's right. ASk for ID. BEware of fake social workers pretending to Be CPS. They could be in to steal your kids pretending as Workers. It is that easy. ASk for Id. But Marina is right, don't even just let them in, forget about them. Don't even answer the phone either, because that is another trick for them to call to see if you are at home. They usually will mail you a letter saying they were trying to contact you at home, or even call you later. But mine, they left a business card on my door for me to call them back. (which I regretted). Not a good idea.

They usually come around when the school is over, they will come to your house when your kids come home from school. I would suggest you to bring your kids out of the house, or pick up the kids at school and go elsewhere. Go to the Library. Go shopping, or go to a Friend's house, or Relatives. Just until 6 PM. They don't work after hours. But Emergency hours, they do come in if they applied to the Courts for Protection Application and a Search Warrant. There are certain Laws they can't come with a Search Warrant a certain hours...9 PM to 6 AM are the times that they don't serve the warrants, but it VARIES FROM STATE TO STATE. but that is usually the standard of a warrant visit. Avoid staying at the house between the hours from 8 AM to 9 PM. But usually Workers finish work at 5 PM-6 PM. But they can come anytime though.

I know this is like sitting and waiting...it sucks I know...but the case is only for so long, 30 days, and they can't prolong the case or else the imminent danger of their claims will go out of the window and the Warrant will be meaningless. no good! so.....do this for 2 weeks, if possible for a month, then they will give up.

Best bet, they will mail you a letter saying they have been trying to contact you. Don't call them back. It is a trap. Been there, done that. Makes matter worse. What I did...was gone on Vacation for 2 weeks.
Go out on Vacation to your Relatives is your best protection.