Recording visitation

[Stitchwitch D]

Last week, our social worker told us that staff at the place visitation takes place had told her that we had a huge, screaming fight in the parking lot last month. Neither of us remembered anything of the sort happening, but of course it was a matter of their word versus ours, and you can guess who she believed.

Because of this and many other times when things we said had been twisted or quoted out of context and used against us later, we decided to record all future interactions with CPS and their lackeys. Once home inspections begin, we plan to take pictures of anything they seem concerned with, in hopes that a picture of a CPS worker standing next to a sink with 3 dirty dishes in it will override the CPS worker's description of a sink with at least 3 days' worth of dirty dishes piled up in and next to it.

So, we got a digital sound recorder, and at the beginning of the visit with our kids today, I let the facilitator know we were recording the visit, and he asked if anyone had given us permission, and said we needed to talk to his supervisor.

We had a discussion with the supervisor, explaining why we wanted to record, and he told us (paraphrasing, leaving out what we said) "Visits in a visit room are unnatural anyway, but to have a tape recorder there even adds more unnatural to it. You can do it, but I would prefer that it doesn't happen. You can talk to whoever is doing your visits and he can fill out a form and write out what did happen and what didn't happen, and give it to you after the visit. That's more natural, while he's sitting there he can just write stuff. It's fine to record, but we're going to report it to DHS and to the attorneys and say that it's unnatural and we don't agree with it. Legally, you can do it, but I can guarantee that in our next report we're going to say that you asked to tape record it and we discouraged it, it's your choice, but it's an unnatural setting to have a recorder. You can do what you want, just let them know you're recording. You can record but I'll put it in your file that it's unnatural."

At first, the explanation just seemed illogical and I wondered how his brain didn't implode. Listening to it later, he seemed nervous, and the explanation seemed fishy, like he was trying to intimidate us out of our legal rights, which makes me wonder what the REAL reason is for discouraging us.

Any thoughts?

[katgotsteve]

of course it sounds fishy.
he is trying to their behinds. if you record, then they cant make things up. it is your right, as long as the laws of the state allow it. i record our conversation without notification. they are trying to cover themselves in case of a lawsuit. it is that plain and simple, you should always record, you should always take pictures.
just cover your butt.

[good dad]

Last week, our social worker told us that staff at the place visitation takes place had told her that we had a huge, screaming fight in the parking lot last month. Neither of us remembered anything of the sort happening, but of course it was a matter of their word versus ours, and you can guess who she believed.

If you get along well with any of the staff, ask them about it.
The CW could just be lieing..

"Visits in a visit room are unnatural anyway, but to have a tape recorder there even adds more unnatural to it. You can do it, but I would prefer that it doesn't happen.

You can talk to whoever is doing your visits and he can fill out a form and write out what did happen and what didn't happen, and give it to you after the visit.

How many times can 1 person say "unnatural" before it becomes unnatural?
I'd say, "May I have a few of these forms in advance because that is a wonderful idea, I will do that ALSO!!

That's more natural, while he's sitting there he can just write stuff. It's fine to record, but we're going to report it to DHS and to the attorneys and say that it's unnatural and we don't agree with it. Legally, you can do it, but I can guarantee that in our next report we're going to say that you asked to tape record it and we discouraged it, it's your choice, but it's an unnatural setting to have a recorder. You can do what you want, just let them know you're recording. You can record but I'll put it in your file that it's unnatural."

I'd say: "Then legally, I can record every conversation I have with any CPS employee, I believe I will do this ALSO...
If it is legal to do, I think a judge may like to hear your persistance in trying to coerce or discourage me from the legal recording of what transpires at the visits. There could be differences in stories of what took place and there would be a copy of exactly what was said... By the way, isn't this why each court hearing is audio recorded AND recorded by a stenographer???"
Also, if it's legal to record, why must I inform them I am recording?

If he got that frazzled over recording visits, he'll have a corinary worrying about what else you will get on tape from the CW, facilatator, etc...

This is why we say learn your rights, the laws and CPS's policies,
then whenever they say something you know isn't true, smile and ask them to explain it in depth and verbally correct them when they make mistakes and it's all on tape

[Frustrated]

I agree with Good Dad! That's what I thought, it is rather fishy what they are doing. "unnatural"? first time I have heard it. lol so is it unnatural to put a diaper bag on top? just making sense out of it. So is it unnatural to have mirrored window for you to watch every step I make with my child to see if I am "bonding"?

"can you say that again into my tape recorder for the record then?"
Oh, you can do the notes, then I will do both then. So it will match up with everything else then. Thank you for the suggestion, I will do both now then.
say what Good Dad said in above quotes to the Supervisor. He knows it is legal to record but he is trying to squirm you out of it. Stick to your guns and never give up. I bet the next time, they will cancel meetings just to avoid recordings, but you can bring this up to the Judge why they have cancelled meetings as "such" and tell the judge that the Supervisor said it was "unnatural" and etc...etc...

He is ridiculous. Since when the room is unnatural, it is SO SMALL!!! I would rather have it at the Park, where it is more free for the children to play happily and freely to do so. That room is horroresous, I would say "it is unnatural with that mirrored window also". Don't say that, but I am just making the point how ridiculous this Supervisor is thinking that tape recorder is "unnatural", what about cell phones? oh, they have their own video recording in that room also, didn't you know that? it is in the top far corner of the room, if you look up, it is up there.

[Stitchwitch D]

Well, he must have mentioned it to our social worker, she brought it up and said we don't need to record. I told her it makes us feel safer.

Also, she also asked for pointers in dealing with some behavior issues the foster parents have been having with our son.

[Grumpy]

I was just informed earlier today that "per the advice of DHS attorney" I could no longer record any meetings with staff. I am assuming it makes covering up their lies hard to do when there is physical evidence. While I could sneek it, it would be inadmisable. It is to your advantage that any recording you do be concented to. I had meeting back in January which was legally recorded.

[katgotsteve]

although it may be inadmissable in court, you can still use it against them. for internal investigations and when dealing it thier attorney or for just good ole blackmail. only if your state doesnt allow for one party recording can it not be done. i have never used mine in court, but i makes them think before they lie to me or lie in paperwork.
it is in your best interest to record, then if you arent clear on something you have something to reference to make sure you understand.

[good dad]

Hi Grumpy, welcome to the site

I was just informed earlier today that "per the advice of DHS attorney" I could no longer record any meetings with staff.

Oregon statute says:
[quote]Or. Rev. Stat. §§ 165.535, 165.540: It is illegal to obtain or divulge a telecommunication or radio communication, unless one is a party or has obtained consent from at least one party to the conversation. It is illegal to obtain or divulge an oral communication unless all parties to the communication are informed that their conversation is being obtained.

Oregon is one of the few states that specify this... But all it means is... YOU have to inform them your recording, it doesn't state they can refuse or deny you using it...

Ask them to show you the specific state statute giving them the authority to deny your using it.
They'll then say it's DHS policy, smile and ask to see the specific policy. Then inform them you will be asking the judge at the next hearing for his interpretation of the state laws..

[Grumpy]

Good Dad you Rock!!!! I greatly appretiate the heads up on that, I Emailed(gotta keep everything recorded) and informed them of my actions not being in violation of state law. I then went a step farther and reminded them of---
163.275 Coercion. (1) A person commits the crime of coercion when the person compels or induces another person to engage in conduct from which the other person has a legal right to abstain, or to abstain from engaging in conduct in which the other person has a legal right to engage, by means of instilling in the other person a fear that, if the other person refrains from the conduct compelled or induced or engages in conduct contrary to the compulsion or inducement, the actor or another will:

(d) Falsely accuse some person of a crime or cause criminal charges to be instituted against the person
(f) Testify falsely or provide false information or withhold testimony or information with respect to another’s legal claim or defense; or
(g) Unlawfully use or abuse the person’s position as a public servant by performing some act within or related to official duties, or by failing or refusing to perform an official duty, in such manner as to affect some person adversely.
(2) Coercion is a Class C felony. [1971 c.743 §102; 1983 c.546 §4; 1985 c.338 §1]

Thanks again Good Dad, I might of never come across that.

Grumpy

[Grumpy]

Double post sorry

[Frustrated]

That's why we need to check our Taping Laws in each State as it differs from another. The Taping Laws are posted on Surveillance Boards.

Canada is one of the Country that you don't have to let the person know that you are taping, and it is allowable to tape record in a public setting area. However, you can't tape in private areas that are not within your spectrum of the meeting. Privacy laws has certain rules to this. But you can tape record to your own home, just like any family home videos. But you can't tape record the neighbour's stuff, as it violates the privacy clause. It is a touchy situation. There are certain places where you have to be careful where you tape record or video record in certain places. It must be a known location that you have agreed to meet, then it is allowed. but if it is unknown location, and the people's faces gets exposed, they can sue you for privacy locations.

BUT there is a catchy situation, there are many, many security video surveillance all around the streets, including Walmart, Traffic, Stores, and so forth exposing people's faces but they will claim "in the name of people's safety".

I will say "I am taping in the name of MY FAMILY's saftey and for our family best interests".

Just got to read the Laws just to be sure and on the safe side. If it states you don't have to notify them, then tape away..........................if they state it is the policy, it is NOT THE LAW! It is just a policy, their rules, but not your rules.

Many would recommend to do it in Lawyer's Office to have its meeting without tape record, because the Lawyer can vouch for you. or any Witnesses, it works the same way. They can testify in Court on the Witness Stand, but tapes cannot (inadmissable) but Witnesses can. That's why they don't like my witnesses to sit in the meetings, but it was more difficult because of my hearing impairment, I would require an Interpreter to sit in to translate the meeting, so they cannot ignore that request. Interpreters can be called as Witnesses to the Witness Stand if requested.