I think I got 'em, maybe!

[debbiescalese]

After the last mdt when they were saying all this negative stuff about my child I went to where she receives therapy and talked to the person in charge of her case. We decided that we needed to find out what if anything was wrong with my child and how to proceed with therapy. So we decided to have a regular psychological done on my daughter. she had that done today with the same evaluator that did both my psychological and my boyfrineds. After she did her exam he called me and my boyfriend in and asked a few questions like Why is this case going on so long cause he has had cases where sexual abuse was able to be proven and it was over quicker than this. And some behavior questions and what he saw so far. He says my daughter had some dificulty with "visual preception" is possibly "immature" then he went on to say that he belives because of this case she is mistrusting of adults and it is having an effect on her. He also sees no evidence that my child commited any such acts of abuse on another child and disagreed with much of what was in the sexual psychological that the state CPS had her do. He was even laughing and said this kid was surely not some type of "pervert" and she doesn't even seem to know much about sex in general but feels this case has given her more of an education than she needs. He says child protection is suppose to protect a child and they clearly have done more damage to her than anything. He was even more conserned about the other child and current abuse that might be occuring with her where she is now. We had a video tape of the other child she may be younger but she is taller and 2x's the size than my child and my child "is probably" more afraid of her than she is of my child. He stated they (cps) missed the mark here. I can't wait to read the offical report on this one this was just his recap of what he just saw but he will go through everything and write a more through report but seemed to be more favorable twards my daughter and stated her problems were not sexual issues but more emotionally developmental. Cps isn't going to like this one.

[anxiousmom]

That is great! That report should help you---especially in court.

[katgotsteve]

way to go debbie, give them a hard time. i was told the best way to counter act on psychological is with another one. it becomes a bunch of horse hockey. most judges see through it, but some rely mainly on the psychological. it is hard to deal with all that, also i have seen where some of the state psychologist actually change diagnosis after another therapist gets involved. another thing to point out is the fact that a therapist who works with the child on a more intense way often out ranks one that only does a one time evaluation. i was told that directly by our cps supervisor here. i was told on several occassions to get another opinion, i did they went with that. just a thought to push to them, also i would push to close this case if it has been more than 12 months, there comes a time for them just to back off.

[debbiescalese]

Yeah I know what your saying because the person in charge of my daughters case at the therapy office said I needed to get another psychological because he didn't see from the files most of the stuff that was stated in the psychological from the cps contractor. He said it seemed like a totally different child than the one he sees. He was the one who recommended I do it and said it could help. The way I look at it if I took my child to a doctor and the doctor said she had a medical problem I would get a second opinion before treating her so why not do it when one person wants her treated for one thing and she probably doesn't have it. So my daughter now has 2 therapists that she has seen regularly one from Jan 06 to June 06 saying I don't see it then the other one from June 06 to presant saying I see nothing wrong her and now a psychological stating that isn't her problem neither. She only has one of cps's psychologicals stating she has some major issues. And she only saw that woman 2 times. when we go back to have this guy explain the findings and such I'm going to ask him if he recommends some action be taken against the other person who did that last psychological. I also asked him if she seemed "rehursed" to him because the other woman stated in her psychological that she did. And he said I get the feeling she mistrusteds adults she might have been guarded because of that and in her situation that is normal. I don't feel she was rehursed she probably just wasn't comfortable with the evaluator the last time.
And yes this case has gone on far too long. The first cps call and investigation was in Jan 06 no case was open till March 06. The case went before the Judge Jan 07 and the next court date is Sept 26. That is for the adjuicatory (sp?) hearing we think not sure. Last mdt they weren't clear on that but the DA is pushing to reduce the alligations in the petition even he sees many are untrue and if we took it to trial there would be no way to prove any of it. It's just one sides word vs the other with no actual physical evidance and just different therapists and psychologists tossing opinion around. In Jan 08 this case will be going on for 2 years. Time to close it and stop hurting these kids becuase the psychologist stated that is what cps is doing to my child hurting her not protecting her and the other child is really going to be screwed up if she keeps getting treated for sexual abuse when it isn't her problem, her mother throwing her in the middle of a divorce and custody case is her major problem.

[katgotsteve]

the saddest part of this is your daughter, who has already suffered a loss of one parent, is being dragged into the middle of a case of a emotionally disturbed woman who has anger and truth issue and takes out her deranged plans against her exhusband by using her own child and yours. i feel that if and when this case is closed, the woman will begin to use those sexual abuse fantasies against your b/f. it is sad, but that is normally the cycle. i watched a movie the other day, cant remember the name, but it was about a group of parents (a fairly large group), who's children were taken and they were sent to prison for various abuse charges. the story was told from the perspective of two brothers, who even admit later that they do not remember any abuse and felt that the abuse allegations were put into their heads by cps by continually questioning. one phrase that was said on there caught my attention, if they told us it happened, it had to happen. so basically after years in the foster system, they began to believe it because they had been told it so long. my fear of your daughter and his is that after years of being told it happened, these things really will happen or the children will become so damaged that it would have been better if it had happened. debbie, i feel for you. even though my case is over, i feel as though i will never really recover. the fears are still there and i am an adult, imagine how the children feel. image how it feels to be told at critical time in your life that you are a monster, a sexual deviant, a predator--how can a child recover from that? they claim not to label children, but isnt this labeling a child before she has even developed?

[debbiescalese]

Very well put. I know myself I am losing trust in people I see abuse stories on tv in the news now and years ago I would have thought "oh those awful parents" today when I see them I think "how true is that and how much of that is made up" Now if I'm doing that and I'm an adult what is my child thinking? Only she truely knows what went on yet she doubts herself because she is being told she is a bad child.
I feel bad for both kids because 1) they have both suffered a loss my daughter lost her father and the other child lost her family as she knows it 2) the minute they listed my child as the perpitrator and the other child as victim my child was guilty and they both suffered as a consequence 3) both children have suffered emotional abuse my daughter from being told she is bad and the other child had to go through sexual abuse therapy for something that in all likely hood didn't happen and lets face it after a year of sexual abuse therapy even I a 31 year old would think it happened!
We have discussed but have not completely decided to after this is over move to another state and not let the ex know where we are but that all depends on the custody arrangement. We have come to the conclusion that even if we win we lose. We will not be able to control his daughter she has had a year of severe mental abuse, has been taught to manipulate the system to get what she wants, and if she doesn't like the rules she doesn't have to follow them. We won't be able to take her back. When later she decides to find out why daddy is not in her life and comes looking for us we have the paper work saved and she can look through it and see what was done. We really have to decide if "the good of the one is worth the good of the many" because I know I can't go through this again and my daughter can't but if we take this child back it will happen again and again.
Also as a side note last night my boyfriend had a visit with his daughter they drew pictures and she drew 2 broken hearts on 2 pieces of paper on said on it "husband" and had an angry face on it with written above it "I rule the world ... whahahaha" and the other said "wife" with an angry face that said "oh sour" then today we had the woman from the cps contract agency come again and we showed her that picture. She said there must be a lot of anger in that house where she is and he probably rules the home. She said that kids often say alot by drawing. When I said tom should bring crayons the next time she said that the colors she uses will tell much more. Oh and a funny this woman has 2 cases she does in home services for this worker. She made a phone call to the worker asking if she had anything specific she wanted her to work on and she said she didn't have much to say about this family pretty much everything was okay didn't have any specific consernes but she spent more of the time talking about the problems in the other family and the services they needed. She said we must not be high priority. Which I get that impression too like when I asked the worker how often she is suppose to see the kids and she said well we are suppose to see them every 30 days but I have more cases than there are days in the month so I have to prioritize so if I don't see your kids every month (she hasn't been here since July) its not a big deal. Yet the petition and why were in court says that we didn't protect the child from abuse and therefore our rights to all the children should be terminated. So we are such bad parents our rights need terminated and we need to go to court yet she has no specific conserns about our parenting or what skills we need to be taught. Yet now not just his daughter is listed in this petition but all of the children are listed 6 in total. My 4 that were born at the time (baby came after the petition was filed) and his daughter plus the step child from his first marriage with whom he has had no contact with since this started. And how does this make sense??? Talk about an agency with no logic skills.

[begley34]

I am a newcomer to this board and I am just curious. Do you all think that CPS ever has the right to remove a child from a home?

I would think that it is well justified to remove a child from the home if the parents have sexually abused the children, neglected them (i.e. failure to thrive), or beat them (i.e. leaving extension cord marks across their back or burning them with a hot iron)?

[Frustrated]

The Parent has the right (still has the right) to Due Process in Court and the Parent should be criminally charged in Criminal Court to prove his or her guilt.

This is often what puzzles me the most that the CPS did not criminally charge the parent of its crimes is beyond me. I am guessing the evidence in the case is not enough.

I do not believe they justified removing children IF the Worker KNOWINGLY fabricate reports and lie about the case and the parent was falsely accused and thereby the parent wasn't never criminally charged?

Yes, I would agree the criterias, such as abusing them, sexual abuse and other things justified removals of children ONLY if the Parent was convicted of a crime. The parent should have his or her day in Criminal Court. If the D.A. feels that the evidence is not strong enough to convict the parent of its crime, and decided not to proceed and CPS still strongly feel that the children needs to be removed regardless of its decision, the CPS still have to go before Family Court and explain to the Judge why they justifed removals of children and the Judge is the only person that can decide their fate. Most cases, the Judges always side with CPS but the parent has not seen foot in Criminal Court? That is something that does not make sense to me. It almost seems to me that the CPS is the Judge, Jury and the Executioner on everything what they say "goes". I feel the justification should lie with the Parent in having them Criminally charged and be brought before Criminal Court and have their due process (their day) in Court and be convicted with its crime then the justification will be 100% truth. I do not believe it should be half truths or lies just to pass the buck.

[Frustrated]

Back to the topic, I cannot stress this enough which is to have everything documented and in writing. This has shown to be very important and can discount CPS Worker's lies in their reports.

I have went to get a second opinion with a Psch. Doctor and got an entire different report than those of CPS's Psch. Evaluation reports. I feel that it was the best to get second opinion because in most cases, that CPS Doctor is biased and works for CPS and will be willing to do anything to help CPS to justify their cause. I think everyone who has been evaluated should get a second opinion. Just like you go for second opinion with a different doctor if some one has diagnosed you with Cancer. What if they were wrong? This is your Life that is hanging in balance in all of this, you are talking about YOUR FAMILY and YOUR LIFE. My reports has shown that CPS were wrong. Have you ever wondered why CPS has told you "not to get another evaluation" from some one else? Why are they working so hard to prevent you to get a second opinion???? That is because they know well enough they are not always right and they are wrong. No wonder the CPS Doctor was not even licensed with Psch. Association Board and he goes on diagnosing children with unnecessary labels and wrongfully pushes for drug medications in children that can be fatal and dangerous to children. Don't you ever wonder why there are so many foster children currently on anti-depressant pills and the fact that 2 yrs old toddler has died from being on anti-depressant pills? 2 yrs old? Oh come on. that is unrealistic. A Normal 2 yrs old toddler has the right to have terrible two's and get pass the stage like any other 2 yrs old would. Why push drugs into his system which led to his death? It is just so wrong. That is Medical Abuse from CPS alone, right there.

[debbiescalese]

I answered your question more specifically in the other post you left. In my case my four children have not been removed. However the child of my boyfriend was removed from the home to go live with her mother based on alligations that she reported and quite possibly manufactured herself for the sole purpose of gaining custody of her child that she abandoned to go live with another man.
My boyfriends daughter had some serious issues before we ever met that were being resolved in therapy and was doing well in our home. She had quit wetting her pants at school, was no longer stabbing her class mates with penciles and sissors, was over all behaving better even after alligaitions of sexual abuse between a 9 year old and 6 year old were made. After returning to her mother these behaviors returned and were worse than ever. However since this was not the issue at hand it goes largely ignored. Even though all her current behaviors were occuring before we met, stopped while she was here and resurfaced again they are saying that they are new and due to the sexual abuse. These behaviors were documented by the school and preschool prior to us meting so yes they are proveable. But since they do not fit the case for cps they are ignored. The child is only being treated for sexual abuse that cannot be proven and lacks serious evidence, it can only be speculated that it might have possibly occured baised soly on what the child and her mother have said in therapy.
My daughter had issues before we ever got togehter but they were not as serious she was only a disruption to class and refused to do work that was time consuming. She is stubbron and lacks patients in doing this she throws a temper-tantrum that disrups class but does not inflict physical harm to herself and others never did wet her pants. She is being treated for anxiety not sexual abuse. My daughter who lives with us is every year doing better however the child removed from our home is on a downward spiral. Now what does this tell you? This is a case where cps may have been well meaning dropped the ball, believed the wrong side, and 2 kids had to pay for thier mistake that they will probably never fess up to.
We are being dragged through the court system for failing to protect a child when the child never specificly ,even when asked, said any sexual abuse was happening, and we took the older child to therapy to find out what was going only to be told this probably isnt occuring by not just one but 2 therapists and now a psychologist who tested her. 3 of my ohter children and one child that is not really involved are also a part of this when they really have no idea what is going on but yet the parental rights of them are in question as well. This is a bad call where they could have admitted "oops made a mistake lets fix it" but will never do that because they feel they don't make mistakes. Humans make human errors they just made a bigger error by not fixing it in the first place.