Please, Please, Help! CPS called on me !!!!!

Are you going through an investigation now? Tell your story and get feedback here.

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ngsm7605
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Please, Please, Help! CPS called on me !!!!!

Postby ngsm7605 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:32 pm

A social worker came to talk to my children today while they were at school (ages 9 and 6) I called the CPS office and they told me they would be out to the house within 2 days.

What do I expect now?
What are they going to do when they get here?
What should I be expecting.

I am very worried!!!
Please, tell me all I need to know!!!

Thank you!!!!!!! [/b]
Mom to 3

HappyMommyx4
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Postby HappyMommyx4 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:55 pm

Do you know what the allegations are?

debbiescalese
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Postby debbiescalese » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:51 pm

What you should expect is they will walk through your house and nit pick everything, they will ask you personal questions that have nothing to do with anything (I was actually asked how many sexual partners I had) They will tell you why they are there and what you did wrong which half the time is news to you and you'll have no idea you did that. Check out your states recording laws and if legal record everything tape the recorder to you leg under your pants or wear loose clothing and stick it in your pocket. Before you open the door say the date and time then open the door. Keep your answers quick and to the point. Use short clear sentences. If you can get a lawyer have one there the cost is worth it and it could save you money and heart ache in the end.

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LindaJM
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Postby LindaJM » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:16 am

Why let them in the house? If they don't have a court order (a search warrant) I'd open the door and step out onto the front porch, and shut the front door behind me. If they have a search warrant they have a right to enter. Otherwise, no.

Don't forget the Fourth Amendment - you have a right to privacy within your home!

They probably have a procedure to go through in order to close the case. Normally that would include talking to the kids and the parents. They will probably be there to talk to you so they can shut the case and write a note in the casefile saying they did what they are supposed to do.

If they want to look at your house, they need a search warrant. Or you could let them look through the front door if you like, but if you let them in, yes, you're violating your own rights and they'll consider you a doormat, and proceed to nitpick and look for "evidence" against you.

I don't know what this investigation is based on but do not let them bamboozle you into thinking you have no rights. If they thought your kids were being terribly abused they would have detained them already. Apparently whatever the kids said satisfied them that no abuse is happening.

Yes to cleaning the house. No to illegal entries!

I'm not a lawyer but I know what the Constitution says about illegal search and entry. Read the Constitution - especially Amendments 4 and 14. If you're at all worried about this you should get an attorney. The number one force discouraging the continuance of trivial CPS investigations is that the clients (you) have retained an attorney.

Another thing I'd say (yes, I have an attitude) is that I will never sign any papers and that if they want to pursue the case it will have to go to court for a full trial. In other words they will have to prove their charges.

If you're lucky it won't get to that point and they'll drop the investigation.

Please remember, I'm not a lawyer and this isn't any kind of official legal advice. I'm just telling you what I'd do if I was in the situation. (And I have been in the situation, and this worked out okay for me.) What you do will be based on your own intuition about what's right for you and your family.
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Please keep in mind that none of us are lawyers and we can't give legal advice. We are simply telling you what we would do in a similar situation. It is to your advantage to get a lawyer.

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HappyMommyx4
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Postby HappyMommyx4 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:30 am

Well, my lawyer completely disagrees with what Linda is advising. She said not letting them in the house shows you have something to hide, will make them more suspicious, will be used against you in a trial (you were not co-operative)..etc. I always let them in, was always polite to them, and offered a guided tour of my home as soon as they walked in. And, not being co-operative in and of itself can give them ground to remove your children immediately. Something along the lines of "Evidence of abuse and neglect and parent refused to let us see home...etc...we feel it is in the best interest of the child to immediately be in the care of the state because parent is denying access to......." My lawyerhas been able to get my case dismissed, there was no evidence and the accusations were absurd. I would talk to a lawyer and not rely on ANY website and NO ONE on the Internet when it comes to my kids other than to supplement what a professional tells me. But (and this is a big but) I am not a laywer either and have acted only on the advice of MY lawyer.

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Postby Momoffor » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:34 pm

Make the decision that is best for you and your family. Go outside and meet with the caseworker and see what its all about. If she says you have no food in the house, have the kids bring the food outside and show them you have food. If its about a messy house, open your front door (But dont let them in) so they can see in the front room that there is nothing to see. Give them an inch, but dont let them take a mile.

I came home one day about 2 years ago to find a card from a social worker in my day requesting that a phone call because they needed to meet with me. I called, and it turned out the social worker was wanting to know if I had any information about where the previous occupants went. (this was base housing so I had nothing to do with the previous occupants). Turns out they picked up and skipped town in the middle of their case, and I had heard from other neighbors they went to Florida. The case worker was clueless wanted me to do her job for her.

Why let CPS in to dig for dirt, if its something silly. Make them work to come up with lies instead of aiding them in it!

Good luck.

debbiescalese
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Postby debbiescalese » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:37 pm

I let them in. One time they claimed I had no food in the house and they saw for themselves it was there. They saw where the kids slept and all that stuff yes they nit picked some really stupid stuff like I had just gotten out of the shower a little time before that and I had not yet put the rasor up (I have a spot for it on top the med cabenit that the kids can't get to and they were not home yet and wouldn't be for a few more hours and I was going to clean the bathroom that afternoon anyway so I left it there.) The rest of the time the house was never an issue so they came in sometimes and sat in the livingroom or just sat on the porch. In my state though they can remove kids for the purpose of questioning the kids when the parents won't allow it. If you have to let them in volentary is better if and when the case goes to court. If they have to get a warrent or court order for everything they get vandictive. That is why my advice is A) tape record it or B) have your lawyer there.

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LindaJM
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Postby LindaJM » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:34 am

I let them talk to my kids... on the front porch. So long as I have a right to privacy in my home (fourth amendment) I'm keeping that right intact.
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Please keep in mind that none of us are lawyers and we can't give legal advice. We are simply telling you what we would do in a similar situation. It is to your advantage to get a lawyer.

"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke ... so try to do something to change the system ...

MaggieC

Postby MaggieC » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:36 pm

I agree with Linda.

ngsm7605
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Postby ngsm7605 » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:51 pm

The cps worker came out to my house.
She informed me that the alligations were that I leave my 2 younger children at home alone while I leave my oldest at her friends house. ((I already know who called, my daughters friend's mother, that lives a couple blocks from us)) None of this is true. This is coming from a lady who has already called CPS on another lady not more than 6 months ago. That lady had to get her child and leave out of state. Not sure what happened to them. She is the type that calls cps for the drama and fun of it.

Anyhow, the cps worker entered my home, sat on my sofa and asked me basic questions. She didn't leave my livingroom. All of my kids were upstairs playing, I asked her if she wanted to talk to them, she told me, "No, they sound like they are having to much fun playing to bother them." She asked me if all the toys in the back yard were mine and told me she wished she were little so she could play out there. She didn't ask to view my home or speak to my children or do anything at all.

She told me she would like to try to get my son in some therapy for his sensory problems if I would like. She didn't say that I had to, only if I were interested. She then asked for some people that she could contact to ask them questions about me, after I gave her the first one she just closed her book and told me she had to meet her sister for dinner. She didn't even finish taking the names of people to contact.

She told me she gets crazy calls from bat crazy neighbors all the time making false allagations.

My dog (who is 17 years old, miniature dog) even pee'ed in the floor while she was there, my husband cleaned it up. She told me she had an older dog with kidney problems as well.

Before she left she just told me if I needed anything to give her a call and that was it...

This was more like sitting and talking to a neighbor (a good one) or something?

Is this over? She pretty much acted as though all of the allagations were insane and if I needed anything or any help with anything to call her and she would try to find some resources to help me, if I wanted.

So was this even a case?
Is it closed?

She didn't even tell me if this was a case or if it was closed or anything. I don't get it ??

What should I expect now?
Mom to 3

MaggieC

Postby MaggieC » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:59 pm

Nqsm,
I have noted that you have been a member of this site since 2006.

Therefore, I hope you have read all the advice. Keep a journal of everything that went on during the visit. If you happened to video tape, that would be good too.

I would also shop around for a private attorney now. Many give free consultations.

I am curious as to why you first joined up in 2006, did you have an inkling then about CPS? It is good to plan in advance.

Stay strong.

debbiescalese
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Postby debbiescalese » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:40 am

Here is the thing if you say no I don't want services for the sensory issues she is going to write that down as "refused services" doesn't matter that they were volentary or not (this happened to us) ask her for the name of the place she is suggesting so you can look into it and make an informed decision as to whether that service is needed. You know it could be a good thing to get the refurrel but there would be no need to open a case just for that one. Once she gives the refural they can close it.
Chances are they will not call anybody she just wanted to see if you'd give names. It tells them you have a support system and friends.
Also just a question though if you know the woman that called on you is like that why do you still allow your child to go there? General rule if the parents are sicko's the apples don't fall far from the tree and when something happens your kid is the one that is going to get blamed for it whether or not it was your kids fault. Nothing good ever comes out of situations like that just stear clear.
You won't know what this woman decided until you get a letter in the mail depending on the state could be 30=90 days. It could go either way. With the dog pee she could put down dog pees all over house (even though at the time she didn't make it out to be a bad thing) She could put down child with sensory issue that are being untreated even though she made the serivce sound volentary. There could be other things on there too that she never even brought up. Or you could just get a letter stating risk min to low alligations unfounded and the case is closed.

anxiousmom
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Postby anxiousmom » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:17 am

I also agree with Linda about NOT letting CPS workers into your home!

Even the Home School Legal Defense Fund, whose lawyers represent homeschool families that join the homeschool association in TX, advise parents to NOT let cps workers inside your home if they come to your house.

HappyMomof4---your situation is different from a case such as this where a cps worker just contacts you or your children out of the blue & you have NO idea WHY they have come, no idea what the allegations are.

Your husb. had an episode with PTSD & fired a gun off....when CPS came to your home, you knew why they were there.

If a parent voluntarily lets a cps worker into the home without a court order via a search warrant SIGNED by a judge, they voluntarily give up all their rights & open themselves up to a social worker exaggerating things on reports......saying the kitchen was filthy if there are a couple of dishes on the counter or in the sink....things easily found in any home.....or even worse, outright lies made in reports....all because they allowed the cps access to their home.

It happens ALL the time!!!! Now, do ALL cps workers do that? No, thank goodness. But, many, many do. It seems to be the normal......the preferred way of practice....they grasp at straws to make things appear worse than they are, to paint a picture exactly the way they want it to look like, etc.

I had cps workers put lies in reports & exaggerations....all because I let them into my home. Had I NOT let them into my home, they could not have done that.

There is no reason to let them into your home unless they have a signed search warrant by a judge, which is hard to get as there has to be actual cause to believe NOT just the call made by the reporter. It can't be based on hear say.

They can't take your children just because you don't let them into your home.

On another case, I didn't let them into my home....the cps worker even AGREED that it was my right to say no. ALL you do have to do is give them access to your children....and you can do that by letting the children come outside so that the cps workers can see that they are allright.

They can close the case without ever entering your home.

It's the same as unlawful search and seizure of your vehicle. I don't do drugs. I don't drink. There would never be anything unlawful in my car. But, I still would NOT allow a police officer to search my car. Why? Is it because I have something to hide? No. It's because I have a constitutional right to be FREE from unlawful search & seizures. I am NOT going to give up that right. If a police officer wants to search my car, he would have to obtain a court order to do so.

Our country was founded on the constitution. Our forefathers established these rights for a reason. Why do we want to just give them up?

To the OP.....what made the cps worker think your son has sensory issues? Does he? If so, has he been getting medical care of any treatment for it?

Although she says it will be voluntary, if you agree to do it, what will take place is your family will be in "family based services" & that will last AT LEAST 6 months. CPS will be involved in your lives for that time & will check up on you. It's very likely that they will add other services as well.

It's a wait & see game now. You will get a letter stating that the allegations were unfounded or that they were founded. If unfounded, they will close out the case. If founded, they will open the case & provide services.

The caseworker didn't "need" to talk to the kids BECAUSE she had already talked to them at school.

It does sound like you had a good caseworker. Hopefully all will go well & she will close the case out as unfounded.

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LindaJM
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Postby LindaJM » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:59 am

Caseworkers can be very deceptive. They can pretend to be your friend, then stab you in the back. How many times have we heard that they will twist whatever you say to make it sound like something bad in their caseworker report to the court?

Also, every time I've been contacted here in California, I never got a letter or any kind of paperwork to let me know the case was closed... so I don't think that's standard in all states unless there's a new law I don't know about.

I agree with Anxiousmom that you can take the referral and get your son's treatment on your own, and hope she'll close the case. If she wants to stay involved with your family it will be six months of hell with Big Brother watching your every move. If she comes back and wants you to sign something, please hesitate and say you'll discuss it with your lawyer and husband. But thank her for the referral and say you'll be getting the therapy for your son ASAP.

And I agree.. I would NOT allow my child to go to that woman's home ever again. She's proved what kind of person she is and hopefully your child will see that she is one to stay away from.
Sample Document Library

Please keep in mind that none of us are lawyers and we can't give legal advice. We are simply telling you what we would do in a similar situation. It is to your advantage to get a lawyer.

"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke ... so try to do something to change the system ...

gideonmacleish
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I disagree with the lawyer

Postby gideonmacleish » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:26 pm

I would like to know why so many lawyers have been following the CPS line. Oddly, if you were under investigation for murder, your lawyer would ALWAYS advise you to assert your 4th amendment rights. Yet when you're under investigation for abuse or neglect, they say to open the door and let them in?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The fourth amendment is actually VERY explicit in stating that they have no right to enter without a warrant. If they have enough information for a warrant, they'll get it, but always, always, ALWAYS make them show a warrant.

My advice is to address the specific concerns. We were alleged to have not had food in the house; I offered to bring the food from our pantry to the front porch, but the social worker didn't go for that. I further protected myself by bringing a police officer friend to the house to inspect our pantry and sign an affidavit. The request to enter the home was quickly dropped.

CPS does NOT want a long drawn out court battle. If they know from day one that you will fight, they will make sure they have a case before proceeding, not just a malicious allegation.

miasmom1028
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Postby miasmom1028 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:53 pm

HappyMommyx4 wrote:Well, my lawyer completely disagrees with what Linda is advising. She said not letting them in the house shows you have something to hide, will make them more suspicious, will be used against you in a trial (you were not co-operative)..etc.
In that case if it was me or if I was your attorney I would tell the judge that she is excerising her constitual right.
Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come Mark 13.33

eyeq181
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Postby eyeq181 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:35 pm

In our case our attorney came to our house with the caseworker. That is the best way to do it. It make for an extra eyes to see how things are. Caseworkers seems a bit more truth full when there is an attorney there to back you.
Parents spend so much time teaching our kids not to go with strangers or talk to strangers, and no to show your body to strangers. And this is what CPS-DHS is all about.

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Greegor
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Postby Greegor » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:05 am

This is another example of just how LOUSY many
Family law attorneys are!

Your attorney owes you VIGOROUS REPRESENTATION.

That does NOT include throwing away your 4th
amendment rights against unreasonable search
and seizure.

For your attorney to PARTICIPATE in a search
of your home without a warrant only legitimizes
a search that no REAL attorney would advise
without an actual warrant and specifics to narrow
the search.

The accusation was NOT about the house, but
about leaving a child alone and leaving a child
with a neighbor.

What part of the house relates to those issues?

Somebody said that if a parent won't let them see the kids
that their state allows them to remove the kids because of that.

That is wholly unconstitutional, as in the US Constitution.

The idea of fearing that CPS might get
suspicious is like worrying about the
feelings of an alligator!

CPS is suspicious ANYWAY.

If you've got a written policy or caselaw that
shows your state can remove kids only because
parents refused CPS access, please post it!

It could be big trouble for the agency!



eyeq181 Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:35 am
In our case our attorney came to our house with the caseworker. That is the best way to do it. It make for an extra eyes to see how things are. Caseworkers seems a bit more truth full when there is an attorney there to back you.


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