This just sucks

[agentm]

So I have a CPS case second one since my daughter has been born. The first was on allegations that her father used drugs as soon as she was born. Since we were together they had me go to counseling and parenting classes. I finished my part while the father didnt finish his. Case was closed within 5 months and now my daughter is 2 and my mom called the cops on us april 3 because she thought I was suicidal which I was not. I was taking celexa and not all the time because the side effects were bad. So cops come over to babys dads apartment and come to the conclusion it was a unfit place, that me not taking my meds like I was supposed to made me unstable, that the dad was still using drugs and drinnking a lot. The thing is we dont live with him. He and I are NOT together so I dont understand why it matters if his apartment is dirty it isnt a crime. CPS said if I didnt sign the safety plan they would take my daughter away and put her in foster care. I was afraid to lose her so I agreed.Saftey plan allows me to see her if I am at all times supervised and I can not sleep in the same house as her. My poor baby cries for me everynight and I cant deal with her being in so much pain but as long as she is with family I know its better than foster care. This is such crap and I hate them. As soon as the investigator closes her case and moves us to family based services I will request an administrative review because I dont agree with what was said. I asked the social worker to prove what was alleged and she said they said the apartment was unfit not the house. Like seriously we dont live with him so it shouldnt matter what his apartment looks like right?? And on the meds thing she said I need to take them everyday which I am now since I am on a different medication and have been for 3 weeks now. How does any of this crap mean my daughter will be abused or neglected? Any insight would be great thanks.

[Momoffor]

the only meds you werent taking were celexa? Seriously? I take celexa to prevent going into lapses of depression caused by my fibromyalgia and unableness to do everyday things at times.

Make sure that once the investigation is complete and if the case is 'founded', you get your appeal in right away. There is a time limit that you have to file that appeal. Dont give up until you have exhausted your appeal process either.

Did your daughter go to her dads house or something? The cops are the ones that decided that you not taking your meds made you unstable? NICE!! Now its not just CPS arm chair rx, its cops too!

What is in your safety plan other than take your meds and not to be alone with your daughter? Have you already started seeing a therapist who can clearly debunk the crap that you are being accused of?

[agentm]

Yes she went over to her fathers to visit him and I thought he had lost rights from first cps case so I thought I had to supervise so I went with. It turns out he has not lost his rights, so I" did not even have to be there.
The safety plan also states she can not sleep in the same house as me and the investigator stated because at night people are more likely to have "episodes" and Im thinking at night im more likely to be asleep....
I have doctors appointments lined up for me all in April.
See we are still in the investigation part of the case and I emailed the investigator (so I can have proof of everything being said) asking her what proof she had to all the allegations and she just never answers my questions. She goes around them so I sent her this email like 15 min ago:
(investigators name) could you please answer the questions I ask you.
1. Did you talk to Sara ?
2.Will the letters I receive at my grandmas house work for proof that Chloe lives here with me and not at her fathers apartment? Thats being said why does it matter if his apartment is a little dirty She does NOT live there. Please explain this to me.
3. Since when was it a crime to have a messy house?
4. Do you have to prove the allegations being said to send us to family base?
5. That being asked what proof do you have that the apartment is unfit? Have you been to the apartment?and the allegation that im not taking my medications as I am supposed to? That is not true.
6. Can they just go on what you say as proof? Dont you need hard core physical proof?
7. Do we have to go to court to prove everything?
8. If this goes to court will Chloe be allowed to live with my mom while we are working this out?
9. Since I don't agree with your findings and I want to request an administrative review how do I go about it?
Thank You

[rakhel]

To answer question #3

This is what they got us on.
By their interpretation, yes a (insert finger quotes here)messy(and here) house is a crime. It constitutes, at least in our case, child endangerment.
We had clothes on the floor around a laundry bag because we were getting ready to do laundry, empty potato chip bags on the floor from where we had just finished eating them and toys scattered on the floor(we have toddlers).
They will use any excuse to justify were they messed up and calling a messy home endangering the welfare of a child is usually enough. ACS tried to tell us that was a clear sign of depression. Don't suppose they have met anyone with severe OCD

[Momoffor]

ok I can help you answer some of the questions you have already:

3.) they will say that you are in denial that a messy house is an issue and see no problem with the condition of his living quarters, therefore you think its fine for your daughter to be there.
4.) they dont have to have proof of anything. suspected is good enough. Hearsay is allowed for CPS 'proof'
6). yes they can go on what she says as proof...again hearsay is allowed as CPS proof, and social workers apparently like children, dont lie
7.) no you dont have to go to court. Most CPS cases do not ever see a courtroom, yet are still founded
9) since you are still in the investigative phase, there havent been any findings yet. Once the investigation is complete, that is when they will let you know what the findings and recommendations are. You are 'SUPPOSED' to be notified of the findings, and typically in VERY fine print, will be the information on how to appeal. But, while you are in the appeal process, they will insist that you follow their recs or threaten you that they will remove your child. (They get money for all the services they make you do) so after you do the hoops that they want, and the appeal board comes back months later and says unfounded, they still go their money, and made your life hell.

I would stop contacting this investigator all together. Make her do the work! Plus they will TWIST everything you say to fit their needs. Do you know that every time you contact them, every time you 'see' them, they are 'observing' your actions and interactions only to twist it and use against you later. fun times ....

[agentm]

Thanks for the replies and the help!

[cambreenellie]

Just before my kids were taken from me I had gone to my family doctor for a diabetes appointment and just mentioned to him that I was down in the dumps over dealing with my daughters issues. He threw a prescription of Prozac for me along with all my other refills for diabetes. I get them all filled but didn't take the Prozac as I didn't feel it was necessary and besides I don't like taking pills into my body unless I have to.

Fast forward 2 weeks later CPS takes my kids for reasons and wrote in their report that I was off my meds and needed to take them as prescribed. I told her I refused to take the medication as it was my choice. She insisted that I needed to be on my meds and through it in front of the judge as I'm insane without meds. Keep in mind I never seen a therapist and have never taken any psycho tropic drugs and all of a sudden I'm made out to look as if I'm a complete mental case for not taking these meds. Seriously, will it get down to a point where CPS has a say so in what you put in your body?

Also my house wasn't deemed dirty but the caseworker didn't like how I did things so she put that in her report to. Such things as the kids had a sock bin so instead of me pairing them all together and sorting them for each child I just threw them in a bin for each child. The caseworker didn't like that and told me I had to put them in dressers. She also didn't like that the clothes were all hanging in the closet.

My caseworker was wanting the household to be so much like what she wanted that she even told me how I had to dress at night. I sleep in a long t-shirt or a long nightgown, I was told I had to wear pants to bed under my pj's. WTF!! Soon CPS will be controlling everything .....oh my bad they already are.

I'd be very interested in finding out how your case resolves.

[rakhel]

What to wear at night? I would ask you if you were serious but these days......

[Momoffor]

I was told I had to wear pants to bed under my pj's

Wow did she also require you to wear a bathing suit when you shower?

Several years back, I read a TPR court appeal from VA, and I know that Marina has posted it here a few times as well, but this single mother got targeted by CPS, and after chasing her around, making her jump through hoops and nothing ever being good enough, it was declared that the city office that was handling the case according to the judge 'the well was tainted'. Part of her problem was that the social worker was trying to require that the mother go and stay on meds, but the woman didnt like the way they made her feel. It was declared that it cannot be ordered for her to take those meds (was for depression if I remember correctly, and that was due to her kids being gone. Even the therapist stated that she had no mental issues and no depression issues until CPS became involved. It was ruled that she couldnt be forced to take those meds. (was CPS that was appealing courts decision)

There was also a case where APS in VA was trying to get the courts to give them control of an older woman (not elderly) who was overweight, her house wasnt deplorable, but was messy, and she didnt want to take the meds that APS wanted her to. Judges declared that they would not make her a ward of the state, she was in sound mind, she wasnt a danger to herself without the meds like APS was making it out to be. Having a messy house (not deplorable) was not a reason either. And being overweight was her choice seeing how she was perfectly sane. (it was APS that kept appealing courts decision)

The shame is the level that these cases had to get to in order for these agencies to give up. (And they probably still didnt, but at least in those instances they did).

In my case, it was determined byt he investigator that I was neglectful for leaving my son, because he has ADHD so therefore was a danger to himself and others. (only thing is, she mixed up the kid that does have ADHD and said my autistic son, as to which I didnt mutter a peep about autism, was the one that had adhd. It was also determined that since he was medicated for the ADHD at the time that means he is completely out of control, and again, and a danger to himself and others. First, ADHD is hyperactivity and attention deficit disorder, and doesnt make him Charles Manson and Ted Bundy, big freaking difference! Second, they got the kids mixed up, and third, he only took the meds during the school year and on weekdays to focus on school work. He refused to take the meds anymore when he was about 12 because he didnt like the way they made him feel, and honestly, I didnt like the effects they had on him. He literally was a zombie. Calm and collect, but a shell of my child.

[agentm]

Wow these people are SERIOUSLY crazy. Is there any thing we can do? They are the ones that should be on meds. Pants under a night gown is just plain crazy. Why does it matter how you dress at night?

[Emily_Rugburn]

This sounds to me like they just wanted to piss you off so they could put that in their report too... My new theory: Kill 'em with kindness. Patronize the shit out of 'em. What you should say to a social worker when they ask you to do something stupid is say "Oh my gosh miss ____, you are absolutely right! My great grandmother would just roll over in her grave if she knew I didn't mate the kids socks! Well, just so I do everything right, can you tell me which side of the drawer I should keep my vibrator?! LMAO

[rakhel]

Because you don't live, or dress, the way they do you have to be mentally insane. These people are not doctors nor do they hold any form of a medical degree. Yet, they like to hand out psychotic diagnosis like its candy just to justify their misguided sense for having a superiority complex

[Momoffor]

"Oh my gosh miss ____, you are absolutely right! My great grandmother would just roll over in her grave if she knew I didn't mate the kids socks! Well, just so I do everything right, can you tell me which side of the drawer I should keep my vibrator?! LMAO

Well, in their mind, you have salvaged the sock scenario, but you are now a sexual deviant, sex addict and molester and will have criminal charges pressed against you! ...Oh and you said 'mate' so therefore you attempted to rape the social worker, so they will call swat and have you tazered while you are trying to cook dinner for your family.

[LindaJM]

Agent M - I agree that you should stop trying to contact that social worker. Also, if they do decide to take this to court, you can request a FULL TRIAL and make them prove their charges. Most parents don't get that far because they get court appointed attorneys who coerce them into signing guilty pleas.

Check your state's admin hearing regulations at your local law library ... in my state you must file within three months. Here, you can get the form by going to the welfare dept. and asking for it. If that doesn't work you can write your hearing request in letter form, and send it to the state department of social services, administrative hearings division.

Try this: Google "administrative hearing form social services YOUR_STATE"

HOWEVER... this may not be the right time to do this. You've already notified her of your intent to file... maybe that is enough. You probably shouldn't do anything more to upset her right now.

[cambreenellie]

"Oh my gosh miss ____, you are absolutely right! My great grandmother would just roll over in her grave if she knew I didn't mate the kids socks! Well, just so I do everything right, can you tell me which side of the drawer I should keep my vibrator?! LMAO

Well, in their mind, you have salvaged the sock scenario, but you are now a sexual deviant, sex addict and molester and will have criminal charges pressed against you! ...Oh and you said 'mate' so therefore you attempted to rape the social worker, so they will call swat and have you tazered while you are trying to cook dinner for your family.

I'm in tears from laughing!

Emily I have used your approach and they HATE it. Their dreams are parents who don't comply, they love them and want to cuddle them.

[cambreenellie]

Take Linda's advice and make sure to go with a full trial when given the chance. I think we all can admit we didn't go to trial not because we are guilty of anything that CPS alleges but because you are bullied about not seeing your kids or pressured into believing that not going to trial is better. If you pass up a trial then whatever your story is and whatever you have to say doesn't matter anymore.

[Momoffor]

Take Linda's advice and make sure to go with a full trial when given the chance. I think we all can admit we didn't go to trial not because we are guilty of anything that CPS alleges but because you are bullied about not seeing your kids or pressured into believing that not going to trial is better.

I didnt appeal at the final trial because of public humiliation and shame (I found this site AFTER all was said and done) and to save my children from the blackball shame at school since they attended school with several children whose parents either were the district attorney, or worked with them. If I could do it over I would have gone all the way because I know I would have won. Woulda coulda shoulda.

Dont give up the fight. Thats what they want!

[Emily_Rugburn]

Its interesting how they are so nice to you when you are fighting them, and as soon as you begin to comply, they get pissed... Saw this first hand a while ago... They're not very happy with me right now.

[agentm]

Thank you for your advice I have stopped contacting her and have not heard form her in over 3 weeks. im just going to let it go and keep moving forward for my little girl. Thanks again everyone

[Emily_Rugburn]

they aren't going to call you very often, because they want to drag it out, and they want you to sit around and wait. I would be worried that while they aren't calling you, they're building a case against you. Here's what I've done recently: I bought a voice recorder, and record all conversations I have with them. In texas it's legal to secretly record your own conversations, just not the conversations of others. search the internet to find out about your state. If you have to tell them it's recorded, then by all means, tell them before the conversation starts, by saying something like, I have a few questions but first I need to inform you that this call is recorded. If they get an attitude or get mad that it's recorded, that will be on the recording as well, you can use that in court to prove they are underhanded. Your cell phone probably has a way to record phone calls. I see no harm in contacting them as long as you record the conversations. Don't tell them anything, just ask questions. Find out what's going on with your case. If they lie to you, you will have proof on recording. That's why you cannot have any conversations that aren't recorded, because they can't twist your words if you can prove to a judge what was really said.

I just feel that you need to be expecting a bomb to drop any day now. Keep your house spotless, as ridiculous as this is, you have to pretty much follow your kids around picking up their toys constantly, if you each some chips, pick up the bag immediately, if you spill something, clean it immediately, and also, be aware of your carpet. If there are stains or anything, try to scrub them up. CPS pays very close attention to the carpet, especially if you have a baby that crawls and/or plays on the floor. Be ready for them to show up at any moment, doing all the things they said you needed to do. then when they close your case, by all means, do things your own way. We just need to kiss their asses until this is over.

Good luck!