What Is A "Family Team Decision Meeting"?

[Daruma]

CPS has called a meeting tomorrow for family & any supportive community members. DS doesn't have his court-appointed attorney yet, so he's thinking of asking them to delay. Good decision, or bad? If he goes, he can have relatives & friends there for support / witnesses. What happens at these meetings? Are they actually helpful, or just laying groundwork for the next ambush? The Shelter Care hearing will be the day after the Family Team Decision meeting. That's when he'll finally get his lawyer.

Edited to Add: This is in Washington state.

[Dazeemay]

Family Group Conferencing - a family meeting model used by CPS agencies to optimize family strengths in the planning process. This model brings the family, extended family, and others important in the family's life (e.g., friends, clergy, neighbors) together to make decisions regarding how best to ensure safety of the family members.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/userma ... fm#kinship

Others have posted about their meetings; our family was never involved in one. I don't remember anyone saying anything about them and whether or not it helped their case.

One thing I thought of that you can do, because you are a grandparent and you have rights because of the kinship law, is file a Declaration of Facts. You need to do this before court and this is an example of how to do it and it is from your state....http://www.washingtonlawhelp.org/docume ... bbrev=/WA/

This will enable the judge to read your side and you will be a jump ahead of cps because they won't be suspecting this. Now the most crucial part of all of this is the "judge". He has the final say and many of them work with cps, in other words they are as crooked as cps. I have been praying this evening for all of you and that you get a fair judge. The sooner the judge sees your side the better off you are because cps gets to present their side first and it takes months before your assigned lawyer can speak of which he will not do much in any way to help you.

Personally, I feel cps lawyers should be sued for not representing their assigned clients.

When your children go to court they must be as well dressed as possible. I even tell people to go to a second hand shop and buy a suit and tie if they don't have one. No heavy makeup, dangling earrings, low cut blouse or dress. Sit as close to the front as you can and never laugh, talk or whisper to one another. Always look at the judge and don't show anger of any kind. This is "his" court room and most judge by first appearance. A guardian at litem may be assigned to your children to speak for the baby. We never had a good experience with ours; they just end up siding with cps.

I don't want to discourage you but, you need to know what happens in court.

[Marina]

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Where is the baby now? In the hospital - in foster care - where?

You say the parents haven't been to court yet, but they are going to a team meeting. I smell a rat!

If the baby has already been scooped into foster care, they HAVE to take it to court by the next day, no longer than a week later. Perhaps they went to court and did not give you notice. Call the juvenile courthouse and ask when the hearing is. If they don't have any record of it, ask them who has "legal custody" of the baby.

Parents are natural legal guardians and custodians of their own child. By federal law, any other kind of "legal custody" has to be a judicially created relationship. This means that unless a court orders Child Welfare to be "legal guardians" of the child, the parent still has "legal" custody of the child, even after Child Welfare has taken "physical custody" of the child in an emergency situation of "imminent danger."

If the parents just passively accept the caseworker's word that they are entitled to the child, then they can claim in court that the child was abandoned. My friend's children were taken from school and given to their aunt, and my friend jumped through all the hoops to get them back, and Child Welfare claimed she abandoned them!! There was no court order to have them removed!

If the baby is still in the hospital, and you have not been to court yet, then the team meeting is going to be a session to railroad the parents into volunteering to give the baby up to foster care and sign a plan -- all without a lawyer or judge.

Go to the hospital administration and ask them to show you a court order for them not to give the baby to the parents. If they refuse, call the FBI and report a kidnapping !!!!!! Every hospital has a policy on when to release the to CPS and when to release the baby to the parents. Find out what it is.

I smell a huge scam - they are taking advantage of the parents' ignorance.

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[Daruma]

Thanks, Marina and Dazeemay. The baby has already been removed from the hospital and placed with in foster/stranger care. The shelter care hearing is today. I don't know how it will go; there's a statement of omissions & corrections, but it hasn't been properly formatted for court. DS is hoping he can give the digital file to his defender and the defender can have it put into proper format. There is no time for us to do more than that before the hearing.

He's already at the courthouse. I will try to join him there later this morning.

It has only been a week, but I'm already exhausted. My heart is pounding and I need to calm down before I go to court. DS & DIL are not exerting themselves as strenuously as they ought, because they're both sort of numb right now. They've been damaged by their CPS worker just as surely as if the worker had taken a physical weapon and assaulted them. I hope they'll insist on a trial; win or lose, at least they'll have a final answer (I think? is that how it works?) within a specified time limit instead of being put through the wringer for months on end. I intend to support them no matter what they choose, but right now I'm worried that DS will never be the same after this.

EDIT: I will write more and respond more fully to your questions as soon as I can.

[angelheart83]

Hi, I'm subscribing to this. I hope you'll update all of us soon. I hope the baby was returned.

[LindaJM]

What happened at court? Maybe I'm reading the wrong thread?...

[family_man]

A Team Decision Meeting (TDM) is what is usually held whenever a change in the child's placement is about to occur. The change doesn't always occur. At one meeting, CPS was about to announce they were going to take my children into emergency custody, but impassioned pleadings from our attorney and some some recent photographs changed their minds at the last minute. However, at another such meeting, there was no such luck. CPS was going to take the children no matter what we were going to say. At that point, the parents weren't part of the team at all -- except maybe to find out what each child's favorite toy was. As if that was going to help reduce the trauma of being separated from their family!

This is very similar to what the NCCPR reports is happening in Iowa, where TDMs have evolved into "Pre-Removal Conferences."

According to a well-reported story in the Des Moines Register, the Iowa Department of Human Services wants to implement statewide a program in one county called "pre-removal conferences." As the name implies, the conferences are solely for the purposes of issuing what amounts to an ultimatum to the family: We're taking your kids, you can scream and yell about it, or you can cooperate, but we're taking your kids. This way, according to Wendy Rickman, administrator of DHS' Division of Child and Family Services, parents are less likely to make a scene, a child can take his favorite toy with him, etc.

http://www.nccprblog.org/2010/08/foster-care-in-iowa-dangerous-exercise.html

[Daruma]

Thanks for your support, everyone. I haven't posted for the last week because I desperately needed time to calm down and adjust to everything.

At this point, DS & DIL have decided to work with CPS and jump through all the hoops, not that they have much choice. They weren't allowed to submit their "omissions and corrections" form yet; their lawyer says that has to wait for a hearing several weeks down the road. The baby remains in foster care. DS & DIL have met the foster mom, who seems very nice, so at least they're at peace that the baby is being well cared for. Of course, there's still the fear that being passed from caregiver to caregiver (from parents, to hospital staff, to foster mom, to who-knows-who-or-when) will harm the baby's emotional development, but the kids are powerless to change that right now. This is all just so sad and so frustrating.

I can't discuss the Family Team Meeting because of confidentiality agreements. Speaking generically, the goal of these meetings seems to be assessing the strengths of the extended birth family (although no doubt they're on the lookout for weaknesses too) and gathering information to decide on short-term and long-term placement of the child (for example, finding out if there are relatives who could qualify as foster parents). Please understand that I'm speaking about the process in general, as I understand it, and not about the specifics of our meeting.

At first I was hoping to provide Kindred Care, but that isn't going to work out after all. Maybe I can be more useful to my kids in other ways, such as helping with the renovation of their home, or doing legal research to supplement their public defender's efforts. If they can go into court with some impressive before-and-after photos of their house, they should have a better chance of getting the baby back. I hope. The mom's past (losing custody of her first baby) is still working against them.

A nurse at the hospital warned us that once CPS is involved, they will be involved with every other child after that, and possibly with the grandchildren. It just kills me to think that DS might be forever branded as an unfit parent, when he has done absolutely nothing wrong.

EDIT: Court was the day after the FTM. I didn't attend because I was typing up some last-minute paperwork the kids thought they'd need. As far as I can tell, nothing much was decided in court. They merely affirmed CPS's decision to leave the baby with the foster mom until placement with an extended family member can be arranged.

[LindaJM]

I hope it works out for a family member to get Kinship Care. If your son keeps off state aid it will be hard for them to track when he has more children. It might also help to live in a different state. If they accept any aid - medical, foodstamps, etc., then the computer systems can be used to track them and they will show the previous CPS cases.

Getting the house ready would be a real benefit. Though the mother has been marked with a prior TPR, they can't take rights away from your son as easily. It is important NEVER to miss a visitation or any other kind of appointment. Missed appointments are used against parents in court. Missed visitations are considered a sign of neglect.

So, did they decide to ask for a trial? Most court appointed lawyers don't like that but... it is their job.

[Daruma]

I don't think they asked for a trial, per se, although I had encouraged them to go that route. There will be some sort of hearing in a few weeks but I'm not clear about the purpose. Anyway, CPS has made it clear that this will be a prolonged process. The kids have to get "counseling" and there may be some other hoops to jump through. They didn't give me a lot of details.

Someone at the hospital indicated that it was DIL's OB/GYN who reported them. He had delivered DIL's first baby as well, so he knew about the prior CPS involvement. As far as I know, at no point during prenatal care did he explain that they would be reported, what the process would involve, or how they could best prepare for a potential investigation. Maybe his hands were tied by law or by hospital policy. I don't know. But as her physician, did he seriously believe that this sort of trauma, coming only a couple of days after childbirth, would not affect her health? Was his silence not a violation of his oath to "first, do no harm"? How could he morally justify leaving them in the dark when he knew he would be reporting them?

The entire maternity ward staff apparently knew the baby would be taken from them, but no one said anything. No one from the hospital counseled them at any time, either before or after the caseworker showed up. Wheels were busily spinning behind their backs, but no one thought to prepare them for what was coming or comfort them afterward.

That's why one detail, which is minor in the great scheme of things, still bothers me. Even while making plans to help take the baby away, the hospital staff had the gall to ask if they could borrow some of the kids' stuff (car seat and such) for a photo. The staff wanted the hospital to build them a new maternity ward with bigger rooms. They were trying to fill up an existing room with as much "stuff" as possible and photograph it to prove that the rooms were too small. In other words, "Hey, while we're working behind your back to help take your infant away, do you mind if we use your stuff to get ourselves a bigger budget?" Pretty cold-blooded, in my opinion.

[LindaJM]

I don't think they asked for a trial, per se, although I had encouraged them to go that route. There will be some sort of hearing in a few weeks but I'm not clear about the purpose. Anyway, CPS has made it clear that this will be a prolonged process. The kids have to get "counseling" and there may be some other hoops to jump through. They didn't give me a lot of details.

It isn't up to the caseworker; it is up to the JUDGE. If they've signed a stipulation (plea) in court, then they're locked in. If they insist on a trial they might get out of it.

CPS has a one-size-fits-all remedy for every problem. Court-ordered "services" consist of psychological evaluations, counseling, and parenting classes, plus whatever else they can tack on. They may ask for drug testing. If there's no history of drug abuse I'd definitely be telling the lawyer to protest that request. All these "services" are very inconvenient and distressing. Parenting classes usually teach nothing worth knowing. It is all about jumping through hoops so the counties can get social security fund reimbursements (tens of thousands per child.)

A trial request really is worth going for. Most people who come to this site arrive too late for this KEY recommendation. It is the ONE time they'll be able to present their side of the story and POSSIBLY get a judge to dismiss the case. If they don't do it now, they'll be slaves to the system until either they get their child back, or there's a TPR hearing about 18 months from now (when they'll get another trial opportunity).

[family_man]

When I was faced with the decision of whether to stipulate to neglect or go to trial, an overriding concern of mine was the length of time it would take to jump through the hoops if I lost the trial. Most case plans take 11-12 months to complete. A trial takes time to prepare for, and you have get on the judge's calender. In our case, the kids would have already been in foster care for 7 months before our trial date. We were told that if we refuse to sign the stipulation, we would not get "credit" for those 7 months. If at trial the judge had ruled against us, it would be a total of 18-19 months before we could complete our case plan. Before we could do that, the State would be required to file a motion for TPR.

So basically, we felt it was an all-or-nothing decision. We shoot the dice, and if we win, we walk away scott free. If we lose, we lose our kids permanently. Furthermore, the GAL stated that if we decided to go to trial, the State would not limit its case to the original allegations. Instead, it would throw all the mud it could find at us, and see what would stick. (I'm paraphrasing.) We therefore reasoned that the safest path most likely to get our kids back was jumping through the hoops, even though we felt none of it was necessary. Of course, once you take that path, you must appear to support it with great enthusiasm until the case is finally closed.

What do you think? Are the decks so stacked against families, or was I overly cautious?

[LindaJM]

I've never heard of a juvenile court trial taking that long. It sounds like your county is using those reasons as a means to coerce parents into signing stipulations.

[Marina]

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You can object to the original court adjudication of Neglect or "Child in Need of Services" at any time during the process.

I have seen this on published court opinions.

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[reach4thestars86]

what do you mean, marina? can you explain it a little more in detail?

[Daruma]

Here's an update. The baby was taken in August. Now, in December, the court date has come and gone but the kids (DS & DIL) have sort of left me out of the loop. They've signed some paperwork that, according to DS, says "they don't agree with CPS's findings, but they won't contest them in court." I guess they've admitted defeat. I was so ready to help them fight this. I was taking photographs, helping draft a Corrections and Omissions statement, and doing everything I could to help them win their fight in court--but then they apparently just gave up the fight. They were incredibly demoralized. This episode has caused DS to have deep, serious episodes of depression. I worry more about him than the baby.

My husband and I regretfully came to the decision that we wouldn't be able to foster this child due to his (my husband's) age and health.

The parents have supervised visitation, and of course they have to pay child support even though they have no income right now. (DS lost his job due to effects of his depression.)

I can't believe this has happened. DS was a hardworking, straight-arrow kind of guy any mom would be proud of. Suddenly he's bitter and defeated, and I don't know how to help him. I don't know if he even wants help.

Tell me how to fight CPS. I don't mean, tell me how to get this baby back. I think it's too late for that. The kids don't want my help; they don't even want to talk about it. Tell me what I can do politically. Tell me how to get this issue to the forefront of the political debate. Tell me how to help keep this from happening to other families.

[Daruma]

Oh, one other thing: if you ever have to attend a Family Team Decision Meeting:

1) Be aware that you may have to sign a confidentiality agreement.
2) Try to have your attorney there, if at all possible.
3) Watch what you say. Don't let their gentle words and mannerisms fool you into letting your guard down.
4) Watch out for open-ended questions. Keep answers brief and to the point. The less you ramble on, the less material they have to twist and use against you.

Hopefully this generalized advice will be helpful to someone else.

[LindaJM]

So sorry you're not able to do much for your son, but if they won't keep you in the loop and consult you then it is kind of hard. I hope they're not giving up, and that they're at least continuing on with their court ordered service plan. If they complete the plan there's at least hope, and the Objections and Corrections format can be used at ANY future hearing. Really, it sounds like they're afraid to fight and that, too often, leads to TPR rather than the promised "reunification" carrot on a stick.

I recently wrote an article about how to fight cps: CPS Problems? Here Are 7 Ways to Fight CPS…

Hope this helps. And... so sad this is turning out so badly. Your son was blindsided... and his wife was not informed of the consequences of her prior TPR. Very, very sad...

...

I have it on my to-do list to use information from this thread and my own research to write an article for the first page of the site on the Family Team Decision Meeting process. I will not use personal information - this will just be for other people who are wondering what this meeting is all about. No direct quotes from this thread. I appreciate all the valuable information everyone shared on their understanding of what this type of meeting is about, and believe others will need the explanations.

[Daruma]

They're continuing with their service plan, though I've no idea what that consists of other than showing up for their supervised visitation. There are services they could use: services to help them renovate their house, or to help them find jobs. But I don't think they're asking, and CPS certainly isn't volunteering. So much for CPS wanting to "help" them.

EDIT TO ADD: It's good to know they can submit their Omissions & Corrections document at any time during the process. I'll try to persuade them to make an effort.

[LindaJM]

The services are generally the same:

1. Psychological Evaluations
2. Counseling
3. Parenting Classes
4. Maybe Drug Testing

As for really helpful services like house repair and jobs, CPS doesn't generally address those needs.