MOST ADHD, ADD, ODD, PSTD ON ADOPTION LISTS

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Frustrated
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MOST ADHD, ADD, ODD, PSTD ON ADOPTION LISTS

Postby Frustrated » Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:14 pm

I AM SO SHOCKED, WHEN I SAW THE ADOPTION WEBSITE OF INDIANA CHILD SERVICES, THEIR ADOPTION PROGRAM LISTS OF MOST OF THE CHILDREN THAT HAS ATTENTION DEFICIT HYPERACTIVITY DISORDERS, ADD, OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT DISORDER, PTSD, OTHER DISORDERS. I AM SHOCKED!!!!!!!! :shock: THEY SAID ON THE ADOPTION PROGRAM, THAT MOST OF THE CHILDREN ARE MEDICATED FOR THEIR DISORDERS. HORRIBLE!!!! THAT IS FORCED UPON OUR CHILDREN OF TODAY!!! SOMETHING GOT TO BE DONE TO STOP CONTROL OVER CHILDREN LIKE THESE!!!!!

check out the Adoption program from Indiana Child Services Website:

http://www.in.gov/dcs/adoption/unid.html


After reading this, I am shocked on how many cases are with Adhd, Add, ODD, etc...etc...so does that mean my Son is next?!!! :shock:

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Postby Frustrated » Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:43 pm

I was reading their Profiles, Pictures of them "smiling" perhaps were controlled, or whatever. It was painful to read these and you can notice some of them were twisted, and you can tell from the wording they put in. One of them said that the father's parental right was removed because he did not want to do their Services!

Kids smiling in these pictures, then I was wondering, if they were in fact taken, abused, and neglected, then why are they smiling? :shock:

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Re: MOST ADHD, ADD, ODD, PSTD ON ADOPTION LISTS

Postby sob900 » Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:59 pm

Frustrated wrote:I AM SO SHOCKED, WHEN I SAW THE ADOPTION WEBSITE OF INDIANA CHILD SERVICES, THEIR ADOPTION PROGRAM LISTS OF MOST OF THE CHILDREN THAT HAS ATTENTION DEFICIT HYPERACTIVITY DISORDERS, ADD, OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT DISORDER, PTSD, OTHER DISORDERS. I AM SHOCKED!!!!!!!! :shock: THEY SAID ON THE ADOPTION PROGRAM, THAT MOST OF THE CHILDREN ARE MEDICATED FOR THEIR DISORDERS. HORRIBLE!!!! THAT IS FORCED UPON OUR CHILDREN OF TODAY!!! SOMETHING GOT TO BE DONE TO STOP CONTROL OVER CHILDREN LIKE THESE!!!!!

check out the Adoption program from Indiana Child Services Website:

http://www.in.gov/dcs/adoption/unid.html


After reading this, I am shocked on how many cases are with Adhd, Add, ODD, etc...etc...so does that mean my Son is next?!!! :shock:



Most of those disorders if you do some research you will find are linked to Flouride and mercury poising.
Dan
"They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys. It has worked well for over two hundred years and we're not using it anymore." George Carlin

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:13 pm

Yes, I did research on a Book, on how it affected Children to have ADHD< ADD, and stuff. All the Food!!! All the food they eat, is making them like that. I found out that MSG, Food Dye Red #4 is the most trigger to their ADHD< ADD< etc....etc....Yes, it has Mecury Poisoning on that book, also, Flouride, yes. Lead, too. And mostly the food they eat and the juice they drink. It triggers them. So it is NOT the PARENT's FAULT!!!! IT IS NOT THE CHILD'S FAULT!! Why the need to put them in Foster Care for Adoption???? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Why? It is just NOT Fair! to Rip apart the Mother and the Child just because of this?! I think the GOVERNMENT SHOULD PAY FOR THIS!! The Government allowed this to go on...they allowed the Products to be on the Shelves for years, that Kids eat. It started worse this Century, right? It does not happen that much in the 60's and 70's??? That is because the Food on the Shelves were not the same as back then. They put more Additives, Food Dyes, and Preservatives in it. Much MORE than 25 yrs ago. That is why there is an OVER DIAGNOSIS of ADHD< ADD< ETC>>ETC>> it is not fair for the Children to be on the Adoption List, just because they have the disorders? It is not their fault.

I put my Kids on the Right Diet, no junk food. They are doing great. Eating Vegetables, Fruits, Natural Foods, is what helps. That is WHY my other Doctors disagreed with this CPS Doctor saying that my Son has ADHD< ADD< ETC>>>ETC>> they said no way, because they know better! They concluded that my Son just don't like Rules, so he has Oppositional Defiant Disorder. They are pushing me to put him on an Anti-depressant Pill, An ADULT Pill! It can cause dangerous health to a Child in the long run. They make money off of this. You see the Adoption Program, that most of them are ADHD< ADD< ETC>>>ETC>> and MOST OF THEM are on Ritalin, Concerta, etc...etc?? They are medicated fully right there. Most of them are ages 10 to 14. There are ages 8 to 10. There are classification they put the age groups, the teenagers run a risk of running away, so they remain medicated. The younger kids are easier to control though. :?

Anyways, this is what we need to take a closer look at today, to why there are so many kids on that list???

Even Bruce Willis saying, why so many?? there are currently 518, 000 Foster Children in Foster Care today in the United States. That does not include the ones that were already adopted out. :roll: SO that is another several Thousands of Children. Up to a MILLION in the United States, that Children are used to be shipped out and money to be made.

Sickening...

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pebbles04
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Postby pebbles04 » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:51 am

well as I see it the only way to change things from the way that they are is to take and fight them but I am sure after years of fighting it is still not going to change for a long time...kids are placed in adoption homes all the time..the last time I saw my son I knew he was heartbroken yet my daughter's stepmother tells me all the time that she hears that he is doing quite well...as I am sure that they make it out to be that way...I lost the 3 year battle with my kids and now know that they are in that position of the transition of foster care...and it sucks....but I am not going to stop loving them and I am not going to stop fighting for them or fighting to try to change the status of what is going on!!!
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**
(that is my quote)

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kdddav
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Postby kdddav » Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:27 am

Indiana was one of the testing States for Teen Screen, which in itself can label any adult, much less a kid, with everyone of those symptoms. With questions where there is no right answer being asked to kids getting them diagnosed and took away from their parents, I am not shocked one bit.

Just sad, very, very sad.
"The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State." —Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels, Hitler’s Propaganda Minister

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Postby tinytots » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:30 pm

ADHD is also a chemical imbalance in the brain, a majority of the time is a genetic trait, it can be passed to each generation. It is more severe in girls than boys. It can also be severe in a child whos parents did illegal drugs. I read somewhere that acid and meth really make up a majority of these cases that are severe in children. I however did not do any type of drugs, my ex's family and my family were predisposed. My son got it but not my daughter.
I unfortunately was the first case in Central Florida to change the medical statitics. When my son was diagnosed he was not even 2, he was the first child under 5 to be medicated in Florida. (This changed the age for medication for all children here) I was lucky I had alot of help with specialists and pediatricians who helped me get the right programs and help going for him. He was lucky enugh to get into a program with the school system and he started pre kindergarden at 2 1/2 (emotionally handicapped) but by the age of 4 he was done with the label, and IEP's and started pre kindergarden (he had been in since 2 1/2, but got in regular class of pre k at 4, early) He is ADHD,ADD,OCD, and maybe Bi-polar they arent sure yet, but he is as most of these kids are above average in some classes and gets bored easily. They hate to read and write because it causes them to slow down and focus, but math and science come easy for them. I believe medication is the only true way to help them, yes certain dyes in foods do factor in, and limiting sugars is always a good thing, but its not the only way to solve the equation. Herbal and natural remidies are not always the answer either. Most of all patients and knowledge are the key to a sucessful parent child relationship with these kids. If social services would take the time and learn this you wouldnt see these kids in adoption profiles. Parents have to take parenting courses, how about social services taking classes to find new ways to council parents with our children?????

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DesertSkye
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ADHD etc -longggggggggggggggggggggggg

Postby DesertSkye » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:35 am

I have adult ADD
I have a daughter who has severe adhd and other behavioral issues not yet diagnosed
I have never done drugs
She was born by forceps and so was I

I never put her on ritalin
would give her coke to drink instead ....it helped alot
Did you all know that ritalin is the drug they prescribe for coke addiccts when they are in treatment to come off the cocaine
Ritialin is the second most addictive drug there is and thats why they do it
its the first step down
Its a very addicitve and damaging drug
Research info on kids who were put on it when it first came out
There is evidence of actual brain damage( for developing brains of children)
That info is from a psychologist who worked for years in drug rehab etc before their own practice

I did not know I had ADD until a couple yrs ago
I had a doctor who prescribed a small dose (25 mg) a day for it

You are right in some of what you said( not saying you were wrong on rest)

The zoloft made an amazing difference in my life...
my mom will tell you it is no joke

I cried because all I could think was GOD how diff my life might have been if i had known if i had gotten help etc
I would not have wanted to take meds for it
but caffine would have been a BIG help if I had known
My daughters pediatrician clued me in on that one becaus eshe did not want her on ritalin either

I was smart but as you said got bored easy
I would seat and read thru 10-20 chapters of the textbook while the class and teacher were going over just part of one
becaus eI couldn't follow the verbal lectures and retained more by reading it on my own
and while i forget things like where i put my keys etc alot
I can remember everything i ever read , phone numbers from years gone by etc
I can figure out complex math problems and I can't usually do it the way an instructer would tell me to do it
I just sit down and figure it out


i had a teacher when Istarted college tell me that my thought process was at genius level
she would give story probs to the class that were to be turned in at the end of the week
time after time i would be done in ten min
she was stunned
she would give me another right at her desk and have me do it infront of her and she would watch me fig it out and say but you'd have to be a genius to fig it out that way thats the way genius's think
She couldn't understand why I wasn't somewhere else doing something I suppose she thought worthier

I have to have music when I am working or writing or I can't focus weird I know
I guess the music keeps my mind from thinking about 500 other things!


BUT~ I can't retain information if it is given to me verbally and I am directionally dyslexic no joke I can't find my way around without written directions
don't tell me north or south cuz i have no idea which way is which
but I can get anywhere with a map
If i am going on a trip and exit to get gas 9 times out of ten I will go the wrong way when I leave...
So I have to figure it out before I get the gas and tell my self beforehand which way to turn when I come out

Its hard for me to stay focused because my mind is 500 steps ahead of my body and I really have to work at it

I am no longer on zoloft and haven't been for almost a yr now
I only took it for a few months

But as long as I have a cup of coffee every morning I am good
All Adhd drugs are stimulants
I know sounds crazy since you would think a stimulant would make us more hyper etc
it doesn't

Heres my take on meds
A persons body can get off balance chemically for many reasons
If you are born that way
or become that way after yrs of stress or other factors etc
I think it is fine to take them for a few months until your body is back to normal
For depression, adhd etc etc
I found that after a few months I am so much better
I may need to take it again at some point in time if working at it isn't enough anymore
If i can find something more natural that will put my body chemicals back in balance then I will do that
but for now , now that I am aware of why I am the way I am
I can work at it
My kids know now
they know to really get my attention when they are talking to me

Especially when I am having my period I notice its worse
I lose my keys etc so I have to really really work at staying focused during those times


We noticed there were things that set my daughter off
Aspertame being one of them
red dye they used to use (they changed it to a diff red dye now so the bad one isn't used much anymore )

So many many things
I think every parent should do major research before they put their kids on these drugs long term
They really are BAD news
Now some kids need them
There are conditions where a person is more dangerous to themselves and/or others without meds
and there are probably natural remedies fo rit that are not known to us yet
I know of a woman in France , she is a Dr who is currently writing just such a book ...targeted towards all these behavior problem diagnosises I can't wait until it comes out

Bi-polar is not a chemical imbalance
It is a condition where you have two nerve endings on every nerve instead of one....so your mind is never getting the right signals
A healthy diet isn't going to fix that
so thats another situation where meds are needed
but there are still BAD side effects

I am against the government deciding who needs them and who doesn't
I think it would be wrong for the schools to start testing every kid that comes along

I agree that MUCh MORE THAN WHAT WE THINK in kids nowadays is caused by
all the crap going into their bodies
Did you know that the hormones they use in animals are being pumped into your kids from the residue in the animal tissues thats in the meat etc we eat
That while water treatment plants are capable of filtering out things that we all know about
its what you don't know that is scary
There was recently a study put out done by a very reputable place(think it was Harvard) I will try to find and post it

They are now realizing that these treatment plants are NOT capable of filtering out the prescription drugs etc you ingest and they are finding them in THE TAP WATER YOU DRINK( need I say more?)
They now think thats why girls/boys are developing prematurely etc
between the animal hormones and the hormones, chemicals etc in the drugs etc we put in our bodies that end up in water....they feel menopause etc is going to hit the next generation in their mid 20's early 30's


I often think back to bible times for those of you who are on that page with me...others who are not, I am not meaning to offend anyone just my thoughts

Think how old people lived to be back then
They slept on the ground
they didn't have enclosed homes
their windows were just openings
the foods they ate were fresh whole foods

Think even to the American Indian( before we came and ruined their way of life)
They were smarter than anyone ever gave them credit for

Spend a day in the mountains
Take a blanket and lie on the ground for a few hrs

You will feel the difference
Earth? think Magnetic.......
God knew what he was doing
Thats why magnetic therapy works
its why many many doctors and hospitals are now realizing it and turning to adding magnetic therapy for their patients

I think God put out a natural cure for many ailments and diseases and we have gotten away form that and are polluting our bodies and minds with things our bodies and minds were not intended to be exposed to

Between pollution, western meds that for the most part do more harm than good, the way we eat and the foods we eat with all the additives and preservitives etc....how do our bodies stand a chance

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to fig it out

Look at third world countries
They have problems we don't have
but do they have high cancer rates or adhd rates or ODD etc
nope

There is something to be said about it

Now I am not some hippie vegitarian sitting here
I'll be the first to take a tylenol when my migrain is interferring with my busy hectic life that I can't take a break from! :lol:

But I am seriously seriously looking at all this researching it and trying to make changes bit by bit in the way we live and eat....
From the air inside our enclosed homes to the foods we put in our bodies to alternate ways to treat health problems
I feel like it certainly can't hurt!

I do not want to end up in some nursing home unable to take care of myself when I am 70 or 80 or whatever

I want to keep my mind and body healthy and strong for as long as I am around!!

I will get off my soapbox now! :lol:
A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,
We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
As much or more we should ourselves complain.
William Shakespeare

tinytots
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Postby tinytots » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:00 am

I agree with you, drugs arent always the answer. I know my son if he doesnt have them cannot live a normal exsistance, he is a total mess. He took zoloft believe it or not for the OCD and hair pulling, it didnt work, so now he takes seroquel, which has solved the hair pulling- yeah!
My son did not do well on Ritalin, he takes adderal slow release, stratera and clonidine. He does well on the drugs he takes, the only side affects are lack of appetite, but it reapears after 7pm and in the am before he get meds. He does well with splenda and thats the only thing I use.
He has trouble getting to sleep at night. I use valerian root to help that. He other than that still has major issues with defiance and its been a rough 4 months. Now he did a whammy last night, I decided after 2 months to go ahead and let him stay home (his dad was home sleeping) and I went to the store for 30 minutes. He called me twice in that 30 minutes to ask the first time for a snack and the 2nd to watch a movie, when I got home I found out the 2nd call was after he decided to call 911. When they called back he hung up on them so they sent out 2 deputies. I had been home 10 min putting the groceries away and was in the garage putting food in the fridge and they pulled up asking if I had called 911, I said no I had just returned from the store so I said lets ask my 12 year old son. I called him out and he denied it and was getting very direspectful in his actions and tone to the officers. He finally said he did but it was in accident trying to call me, hmmm. I apologised to the officers and they left! Im exausted emotionally right now...

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Postby luvmyboyz » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:35 pm

tinytots wrote:ADHD is also a chemical imbalance in the brain, a majority of the time is a genetic trait, it can be passed to each generation. It is more severe in girls than boys. It can also be severe in a child whos parents did illegal drugs. I read somewhere that acid and meth really make up a majority of these cases that are severe in children. I however did not do any type of drugs, my ex's family and my family were predisposed. My son got it but not my daughter.
I unfortunately was the first case in Central Florida to change the medical statitics. When my son was diagnosed he was not even 2, he was the first child under 5 to be medicated in Florida. (This changed the age for medication for all children here) I was lucky I had alot of help with specialists and pediatricians who helped me get the right programs and help going for him. He was lucky enugh to get into a program with the school system and he started pre kindergarden at 2 1/2 (emotionally handicapped) but by the age of 4 he was done with the label, and IEP's and started pre kindergarden (he had been in since 2 1/2, but got in regular class of pre k at 4, early) He is ADHD,ADD,OCD, and maybe Bi-polar they arent sure yet, but he is as most of these kids are above average in some classes and gets bored easily. They hate to read and write because it causes them to slow down and focus, but math and science come easy for them. I believe medication is the only true way to help them, yes certain dyes in foods do factor in, and limiting sugars is always a good thing, but its not the only way to solve the equation. Herbal and natural remidies are not always the answer either. Most of all patients and knowledge are the key to a sucessful parent child relationship with these kids. If social services would take the time and learn this you wouldnt see these kids in adoption profiles. Parents have to take parenting courses, how about social services taking classes to find new ways to council parents with our children?????



I am a firm believer you can "See" it before 5 My oldest "J" showed many strange things from the day he was born. I had two fears CPS and him going to jail. One has come true. I finally am being heard. I was either not believed or he was too young to be tested. He just turned six (yesterday) and I am finally getting help cus of this CPS stuff.

BUT I am NOT one to medicate just to medicate either. If I was my other kids would be on it too... they DO NOT need it. I don't doubt that many many kids are medicated just to be :(

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Postby DLFritsch » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:15 pm

It once again shows how sick the system is. Do any of them think that maybe its a reaction to the emotional trama the children are going threw? What is going threw their little minds. God is watching and all of us are here for a reason. I do believe we will make a difference and we will be herd.

tinytots
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Postby tinytots » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:11 am

Now that Iam going through my trip with CPS its costing more than just my sanity. My son has finally been approved a "day stay" at a local school/councelling program here in town. He will be taken off his meds to see if it is still ADHD/ADD he has and not bi polar etc. Hes been on meds so long we are wondering if it the cause, because he can focus for hours on his video games but not school and he shouldnt be able to do that. I had to spend $$$ to get all his medical, school and councelling records incase we have to go to court, as well as we decided even if I dont get the daycare back he cannot be left alone for any period of time so I will stay home and we will make it work financially. That means less time as a family unit- Im not real happy about that, but whatever it takes to make this better for my son.

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Postby luvmyboyz » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:13 am

he cannot be left alone for any period of time


Can I relate.... hugs

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DesertSkye
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focusing on games and not school

Postby DesertSkye » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:55 pm

Look also into Sensory Integration Disorders

My daughter was like that too and they have rule dout bi-polar etc

heres what they told me as far as S.I.D.

Because there is commotion and noise at school she can't filter it all out and its like a pin ball just bouncing around

but if its quieter at home he can zero in
My daughter was fine at home if it was relatively quiet at school forget it

she owuld not sit still to read with me when little and yet would pick up a rocks in he yard and spend hours watching the bugs underneath them

Good thing about SIDS if it is that
NO drugs
they learn thru physical therapy how to concentrate, calm themselves etc


Many kids with this are often misdiagnosed with ADHD/ADD, ODD, Bi-polar etc

Find a specialist get it ruled out first instead of the others possibly wrongly ruled in
SIDS has a MUCH better long term outcome and no drugs
I think they may be able t diagnose it while he is even on his meds
if you can give them a good history prior to meds as far as his behaviors
A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,

We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;

But were we burdened with like weight of pain,

As much or more we should ourselves complain.

William Shakespeare

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Postby luvmyboyz » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:58 pm

Well it is ADHD or SIDS or a combo of something. The great thing is I am now being heard... THAT is what I care about the most... not to take this post off topic but I even mentioned a body sock when I talked with the school... I have a feeling nothing has happened with that. :?

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pebbles04
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Postby pebbles04 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:33 pm

Well my son was placed on adderall as well...I would have never known that if he wouldnt have mentioned something abuot being on meds during a visitation...he told me he was taking the pills in the morning...I was ticked off at the idea!! When he lived with me dont get me wrong...I tried to get him diagnosed with being ADHD just so I knew what it was and would have a better time mentally to deal with it knowing what it was. But I was severely irate to learn that these people told me that my son was not ADHD and that I was a horrible parent that obtained no parenting skills...and then taking him and placing him on meds not even six months into foster care. I by no means want my son on meds...and I am quite perturbed that they did it...considering I dealt with his hyperactivity and such for 6 years. That is ridiculous. I was quite astonished..

But my mom found out something was wrong with my little brother after years of problems through school...my little brother is 19 now but this was only a couple of years ago and needless to say my mom took him to a psychiatrist and was found out that he was ADD. My mom called me and told me that he was and then told me that reason the doctor gave for why that happens. You got to think about it...although if you dont think hard enough it might not seem possible. But the doctor asked my mom if she ever had any fetal distress in her pregnancy or birth and she said yes why??? The doctor told her that statistically they have proven that fetal distress can cause the problems of ADD and ADHD....just wanted to comment on that!!!!
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**

(that is my quote)

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Postby luvmyboyz » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:00 pm

See I knew it!!! Getting over the fact over the course of my pg I started disliking my Dr more and more, but that is a whole other story...

She claimed me as Pre term labor H** I never felt a contraction, but I was thinning out. SO from 27 (pulled out of work and on bed rest) weeks to 34 I was on steroids for lung devolpment and the pill that stops contractions.. again never felt one.. at 34 weeks I was in the hospital for a week(got out just before christmas) there she told me I could not eat solid foods this was like a 3 day thing her reason cus he thought I was going to deliver.. I was so misserable.

At birth my water broke on own and with 5 hours I had J. I was told the cord was around his neck.

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DesertSkye
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meds

Postby DesertSkye » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:09 pm

My dd was stuck in birth canal facing the wrong way and was delivered by forceps...also I had back labor which i had no clue about and no doc or nurse picke dup on( :roll: )

and so I was pushing at the wrong time and because of having had a prev c-section i had no choice about the epidural in case of anything happening...like needing to do another c-section
I think if I remember what my mom has told me I was forcep delivery also but don't know anything else....

and I have read too that fetal distress is a common cause of Add/adhd

I know my niece who has SID was in fetal distress and not sure about my sister, her mom , who thinks she too has SID

This was also the only preg I was sick with...very sick...and I have always wondered if that had anything to do with it

and like you pebbles....they(CPS and involved doctors) put my dd on meds they had no business putting her on when they said her behavior was out of control...and then tried to blame her behavior on me....
In spite of the fact that she has had problems from infancy with going from one mood extreme to the other ( which we now see was the noise level etc around her that also changed her behavior)

when we were trying to get her off all meds for a correct diagnosis

also like you tried to say I lacked parenting skills yet they didn't do a ** thing to help her while she was in their custody and only made everything worse

then didn't even follow THE DR.'S RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THEY BROUGHT IN!!!

WHAT IDIOTS

I think they all need to be locked up in the looney bin!
A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,

We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;

But were we burdened with like weight of pain,

As much or more we should ourselves complain.

William Shakespeare

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pebbles04
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Postby pebbles04 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:07 pm

Yes they would continously tell me that if I obtained the parenting skills that my son would not be the way he was...that it was me...yet he was in foster care for a lousy 6 months and was diagnosed...I didnt want him on those drugs but considering that did a TPR that was not an option I had..they left me out of everything from the start...my tip of advice to people is DO NOT GO INTO THIS BLIND...I did and that is why I dont have my kids and doubt I ever will...
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**

(that is my quote)

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Greegor
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Postby Greegor » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:25 am

Mind Games: Psychological Warfare Between Therapists and Scientists By CAROL TAVRIS

Recently, while lecturing to a large group of lawyers, judges, mediators, and others involved in the family-court system in Los Angeles, I asked how many knew what a "social psychologist" was. Three people shyly raised their hands. That response was typical, and it's the reason I don't tell people anymore that I'm a social psychologist: They think I'm a therapist who gives lots of parties. If I tell them I'm a psychological scientist, they think I'm a pompous therapist, because everyone knows that "psychological science" is an oxymoron.

In fact, in many states, I cannot call myself a psychologist at all -- the word is reserved for someone who has an advanced degree in clinical psychology and a license to practice psychotherapy. That immediately rules out the many other kinds of psychologists who conduct scientific research in their respective specialties, including child development, gerontology, neurobiology, emotions, sleep, behavioral genetics, memory and cognition, sexual behavior and attitudes, trauma, learning, language, . . . and social psychology, the study of how social situations and other people affect every human activity from love to war.

For the public, however, the word "psychologist" has only one meaning: psychotherapist. It is true that clinical psychologists practice therapy, but many psychologists are not clinicians, and most therapists are not clinical psychologists. The word "psychotherapist" is completely unregulated. It includes people who have advanced training in psychology, along with those who get a "certification" in some therapeutic specialty; clinical social workers; marriage, family, and child counselors; psychoanalysts and psychiatrists; and countless others who have no training in anything. Starting tomorrow, I could package and market my own highly effective approach, Chocolate Immersion Therapy, and offer a weekend workshop to train neophytes ($395, chocolate included). I could carry out any kind of unvalidated, cockamamie therapy I wanted, and I would not be guilty of a single crime. Unless I described myself as a psychologist.

As a result of such proliferation of psychotherapists, the work of psychological scientists who do research and teach at colleges and universities tends to be invisible outside the academy. It is the psychotherapists who get public attention, because they turn up on talk shows, offer advice in books and newspaper columns, and are interviewed in the aftermath of every disaster or horrible crime -- for example, speculating on the motives and childhoods of the Washington snipers. Our society runs on the advice of mental-health professionals, who are often called upon in legal settings to determine whether a child has been molested, a prisoner up for parole is still dangerous, a defendant is lying or insane, a mother is fit to have custody of her children, and on and on. Yet while the public assumes, vaguely, that therapists must be "scientists" of some sort, many of the widely accepted claims promulgated by therapists are based on subjective clinical opinions and have been resoundingly disproved by empirical research conducted by psychological scientists. Here are a few examples that have been shown to be false:

Low self-esteem causes aggressiveness, drug use, prejudice, and low achievement.


Abused children almost inevitably become abusive parents, causing a "cycle of abuse."


Therapy is beneficial for most survivors of disasters, especially if intervention is rapid.


Memory works like a tape recorder, clicking on at the moment of birth; memories can be accurately retrieved through hypnosis, dream analysis, or other therapeutic methods.


Traumatic experiences, particularly of a sexual nature, are typically "repressed" from memory, or split off from consciousness through "dissociation."


The way that parents treat a child in the first five years (three years) (one year) (five minutes) of life is crucial to the child's later intellectual and emotional success.

Indeed, the split between the research and practice wings of psychology has grown so wide that many psychologists now speak glumly of the "scientist-practitioner gap," although that is like saying there is an "Arab-Israeli gap" in the Middle East. It is a war, involving deeply held beliefs, political passions, views of human nature and the nature of knowledge, and -- as all wars ultimately do -- money and livelihoods. The war spilled out of academic labs and therapists' offices and into the public arena in the 1980s and '90s, when three epidemics of hysteria caught fire across the country: the rise of claims of "repressed memories" of childhood sexual abuse; the growing number of cases of "multiple-personality disorder" (MPD), from a handful before 1980 to tens of thousands by 1995; and the proliferation of day-care sex-abuse scandals, which put hundreds of nursery-school teachers in prison on the "testimony" of 3and 4-year-old children.

All three epidemics were fomented and perpetuated by the mistaken beliefs of psychotherapists: that "children never lie about sexual abuse"; that childhood trauma causes the personality to "split" into several or even thousands of identities; that if you don't remember being sexually abused in childhood, that's evidence that you were; that it is possible to be raped by your father every day for 16 years and to "repress" the memory until it is "uncovered" in therapy; that hypnosis, dream analysis, and free association of fantasies are reliable methods of "uncovering" accurate memories. (On the contrary, such techniques have been shown to increase confabulation, imagination, and memory errors, while inflating the belief that the retrieved memories are accurate.) The epidemics began to subside as a result of the painstaking research of psychological scientists.

But psychotherapeutic nonsense is a Hydra: Slay one set of mistaken ideas, and others take their place. Recovered-memory therapy may be on the wane, but "rebirthing" techniques and forms of "restraint therapy" -- physically abusive practices that supposedly help adopted or troubled children form attachments to their parents -- are on the rise. In Colorado, 10-year-old Candace Newmaker was smothered to death during rebirthing, a procedure in which she was expected to fight her way through a "birth canal" of suffocating blankets and pillows. The two therapists convicted in Candace's death are now serving time in prison, but efforts in Colorado to prohibit all forms of "restraint therapy" were defeated by protests from "attachment therapists" in the state and throughout the country. After Candace's death, one member of the Colorado Mental Health Grievance Board noted with dismay that her hairdresser's training took 1,500 hours, whereas anyone could take a two-week course and become "certified" in rebirthing. Yet the basic premise -- that children can recover from trauma, insecure attachment, or other psychological problems by "reliving" their births or being subjected to punitive and coercive restraints -- has no scientific validity whatsoever.

To understand how the gap between psychological scientists and clinicians grew, it is necessary to understand a little about therapy and a little about science, and how their goals and methods diverged. For many years, the training of most clinical psychologists was based on a "scientist practitioner" model. Ideally, clinicians would study the research on human behavior and apply relevant findings to their clinical practice. Clinical psychologists who are educated at major universities are still trained in this model. They study, for example, the origins of various mental disorders and the most effective ways to treat them, such as cognitive-behavior therapy for anxiety, depression, eating disorders, anger, and obsessive-compulsive disorder.

They have also identified which interventions are unhelpful or potentially harmful. For example, independent assessments of a popular post-trauma intervention called Critical Incident Stress Debriefing have found that most survivors benefit just as much by talking with friends and other survivors as with debriefers. Sometimes CISD even slows recovery, by preventing victims from drawing on their own wellsprings of resilience. And, sometimes, it harms people -- for example, by having survivors ventilate their emotions without also learning good methods of coping with them.

Unfortunately, the numbers of scientifically trained clinicians have been shrinking. More and more therapists are getting their degrees from "free-standing" schools, so called because they are independent of research institutions or academic psychology departments. In these schools, students are trained only to do therapy, and they do not necessarily even learn which kinds of therapy have been shown to be most effective for particular problems. Many of the schools are accredited by the American Psychological Association, and their graduates learn what they need to know to pass state licensing examinations. But that does not mean that the graduates are scientifically knowledgeable. For example, the Rorschach Inkblot Test has been resoundingly discredited as a reliable means of diagnosing most mental disorders or emotional problems; it usually reveals more about the clinician administering it than about the individual taking it. I call it the Dracula of psychological tests, because no one has been able to drive a stake through the cursed thing's heart. Many clinicians love it; it is still widely used; and it still turns up on licensing exams.

Of course, tensions exist between researchers and practitioners in any field -- medicine, engineering, education. Whenever one group is doing research and the other is working in an applied domain, their interests and training will differ. The goal of the clinician, in psychology or medicine, is to help the suffering individual; the goal of the psychological or medical researcher is to explain and predict the behavior or course of illness in people in general. That is why many clinicians argue that empirical research cannot possibly capture the complex human beings who come to their offices. Professional training, they believe, should teach students empathy and appropriate therapeutic skills. Good therapy depends on the therapist's insight and experience, not on knowledge of statistics, the importance of control groups, and the scientific method.

I agree that therapy often deals with issues on which science is silent: finding courage under adversity, accepting loss, making moral choices. My clinician friends constantly impress me with their deep understanding of the human condition, which is based on seeing the human condition sobbing in their offices many times a week. Nor am I arguing that psychological scientists, or any other kind, are white knights with a special claim to intellectual virtue. They, too, wrangle over data, dispute each other furiously in print and public, and have plenty of vested interests and biases. (For example, many scientists and consumer advocates are concerned about the growing co-optation of scientific investigators by the pharmaceutical industry -- which now finances the majority of studies of treatments for mental disorders and sexual problems -- because the result has been a pro-drug bias in research.)

It is not that I believe that science gives us ultimate truths about human behavior, while clinical insight is always foolish and wrong. Rather, I worry that when psychotherapists fail to keep up with basic research on matters on which they are advising their clients; when they fail to learn which methods are most appropriate for which disorders, and which might be harmful; when they fail to understand their own biases of perception and do not learn how to correct them; when they fail to test their own ideas empirically before running off to promote new therapies or wild claims -- then their clients and the larger public pay the price of their ignorance.

For present purposes, I am going to do an end run around the centuries-old debate about defining science, and focus on two core elements of the scientific method. These elements are central to the training of all scientists, but they are almost entirely lacking in the training of most psychotherapists, including clinical psychologists. The first is skepticism: a willingness to question received wisdom. The second is a reliance on gathering empirical evidence to determine whether a prediction or belief is valid. You don't get to sit in your chair and decide that autism is caused by cold, rejecting, "refrigerator" mothers, as Bruno Bettelheim did. But legions of clinicians (and mothers) accepted his cruel and unsubstantiated theory because he was, well, Bruno Bettelheim. It took skeptical scientists to compare the mothers of autistic children with those of healthy children, and to find that autism is not caused by anything parents do; it is a neurological disorder.

The scientific method is designed to help investigators overcome the most entrenched human cognitive habit: the confirmation bias, the tendency to notice and remember evidence that confirms our beliefs or decisions, and to ignore, dismiss, or forget evidence that is discrepant. That's why we are all inclined to stick to a hypothesis we believe in. Science is one way of forcing us, kicking and screaming if necessary, to modify our views. Most scientists regard a central, if not defining, characteristic of the scientific method to be what Karl Popper called "the principle of falsifiability": For a theory to be scientific, it must be falsifiable -- you can't show me just those observations that confirm it, but also those that might show it to be wrong, false. If you can twist any result of your research into a confirmation of your hypothesis, you aren't thinking scientifically. For that reason, many of Freud's notions were unfalsifiable. If analysts saw evidence of "castration anxiety" in their male patients, that confirmed Freud's theory of its universality; if analysts didn't see it, Freud wrote, they lacked observational skills and were just too blind or stubborn to see it. With that way of thinking, there is no way to disconfirm the belief in castration anxiety.

Yet many psychotherapists perpetuate ideas based only on confirming cases -- the people they see in therapy -- and do not consider the disconfirming cases. The popular belief in "the cycle of abuse" rests on cases of abusive parents who turn up in jail or therapy and who report that they were themselves victims of abuse as children. But scientists would want to know also about the disconfirming cases: children who were beaten but did not grow up to mistreat their children (and, therefore, did not end up in therapy or jail), and people who were not beaten and then did grow up to be abusive parents. When the researchers Joan Kaufman and Edward Zigler reviewed longitudinal studies of the outcomes of child abuse, they found that although being abused does considerably increase the risk of becoming an abusive parent, more than 70 percent of all abused children do not mistreat their offspring -- hardly an inevitable "cycle."

Practitioners who do not learn about the confirmation bias and ways to counteract it can make devastating judgments in court cases. For example, if they are convinced that a child has been sexually molested, they are often unpersuaded by the child's repeated denials; such denials, they say, are evidence of the depth of the trauma. Sometimes, of course, that is true. But what if it isn't? In the Little Rascals day-care-abuse case in North Carolina, one mother told reporters that it took 10 months before her child was able to "reveal" the molestation. No one at the time considered the idea that the child might have been remarkably courageous to persist in telling the truth for so long.

Because many therapists tend not to be as deeply imbued with the spirit of skepticism as scientists are (or are supposed to be), it is common for many of them to place their faith in the leader of a particular approach, and to set about trying to do what the school's founder did -- rather than to raise too many questions about the founder's methods or the validity of the founder's theories. If you go off to become certified in Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), invented by Francine Shapiro while she was walking in the woods one day, you are unlikely to ask, "Why, exactly, does waving your finger in front of someone's eyes realign the halves of the brain and reduce anxiety?" Scientific studies of this method show that the successful ingredient in EMDR is an old, tried-and-true technique from behavior therapy: exposing people to a thought or situation that makes them anxious, until the feeling subsides. The eye movements that are supposedly essential, the clinical scientist Scott O. Lilienfeld concluded, do not constitute "anything more than pseudoscientific window dressing."

Similarly, most clinicians are not trained to be skeptical of what a client says or to demand corroborating evidence. Why would they be? A client comes to see you complaining that he has a terrible mother; are you going to argue? Ask to meet the mother? Some clinicians, notably those who practice cognitive-behavior therapy, would, indeed, ask you for the evidence that your mother is terrible and also invite you to consider other explanations of her behavior; but most do not. As the psychiatrist Judith Herman explained in a PBS Frontline special on recovered memory: "As a therapist, your job is not to be a detective; your job is not to be a fact-finder; your job is not to be a judge or a jury; and your job is also not to make the family feel better. Your job is to help the patient make sense out of her life, make sense out of her symptoms . . . and make meaning out of her experience."

That remark perfectly summarizes the differing goals of most clinicians and scientists. Clinicians are certainly correct that most of the time it is not possible to corroborate a client's memory anyway, and that it isn't their job to find out what "really" happened in the client's past. Scientists, though, have shown that memories are subject to distortion. So, if the client is going to end up suing a parent for sexual abuse, or if the therapist's intervention ends up causing a devastating family rift, a little detective work seems called for. Detective work is the province of scientists, who are trained not to automatically believe what someone says or what someone claims to remember, but to ask, "Where's the evidence?"

For psychological scientists, clinical insight is simply not sufficient evidence. For one thing, the clinician's observations of clients will be inherently limited if they overlook comparison groups of people who are not in therapy. For example, many clinicians invent "checklists" of "indicators" of some problem or disorder -- say, that "excessive" masturbation or bed-wetting are signs of sexual abuse or, my favorite, that losing track of time or becoming engrossed in a book is a sign of multiple-personality disorder. But, before you can say that bed-wetting or masturbation is an indicator that a child has been sexually abused, what must you know? Many psychotherapists cannot give you the simple answer: You must know the rates of bed-wetting and masturbation among all children, including nonabused ones. In fact, many abused children have no symptoms, and many nonabused children wet their beds, masturbate, and are fearful in new situations.

Throughout the 1980s and '90s, many therapists routinely testified in court that they could magically tell, with complete certainly, that a child had been sexually abused because of how the child played with anatomically correct dolls, or because of what the child revealed in drawings. The plausible assumption is that very young children may reveal feelings in their play or drawings that they cannot express verbally. But while such tests may have a therapeutic use, again the scientific evidence is overwhelming that they are worthless for assessment or diagnostic purposes. How do we know that? Because when scientists compared the doll play of abused children to that of control groups of nonabused children, they found that such play is not a valid way of determining whether a child has been sexually abused. The doll's genitals are pretty interesting to all kids.

Likewise, psychological scientists who study children's cognitive development empirically have examined the belief held by many psychotherapists that "children never lie" about sexual abuse. Scientists have shown in dozens of experiments that children often do tell the truth, but that they also lie, misremember, and can be influenced to make false allegations -- just as adults do. Researchers have shown, too, that adults often misunderstand and misinterpret what children say, and they have identified the conditions that increase a child's suggestibility and the interviewing methods virtually guaranteed to elicit false reports. Those conditions and methods were present in the interrogations of children by social workers, therapists, and police officers in all of the sensational cases of day-care hysteria of the 1980s and '90s. And those coercive practices continue in many jurisdictions today where child-protection workers have not been trained in the latest research.

I fear that the scientist-therapist gap is a done deal. There are too many economic and institutional supports for it, in spite of yearly exhortations by every president of the American Psychological Association for "unity" and "cooperation." That's why, in the late 1980s, a group of psychological scientists formed their own organization, the American Psychological Society, to represent their own scientific interests. Every year, the APA does something else to rile its scientific members while placating its therapist members -- like supporting prescription-writing privileges for Ph.D. psychologists and approving continuing-education programs for unvalidated methods or tests -- and so, every year, more psychological scientists leave the APA for the APS.

But to the public, all this remains an internecine battle that seems to have no direct relevance. That's the danger. Much has been written about America's scientific illiteracy, but social-scientific illiteracy is just as widespread and in some ways even more pernicious. People can deny evolution or fail to learn basic physics, but such ignorance rarely affects their personal lives. The scientific illiteracy of psychotherapists has torn up families, sent innocent defendants to prison, cost people their jobs and custody of their children, and promoted worthless, even harmful, therapies. A public unable to critically assess psychotherapists' claims and methods for scientific credibility will be vulnerable to whatever hysterical epidemic comes along next. And in our psychologically oriented culture, there will be many nexts. Some will be benign; some will merely cost money; and some will cost lives.

Carol Tavris, a social psychologist, is on the board of the Council for Scientific Clinical Psychology and Psychiatry, a consulting editor of The Scientific Review of Mental Health Practice, and a member of the editorial board of Psychological Science in the Public Interest.

http://chronicle.com Section: The Chronicle Review Volume 49, Issue 25, Page B7
http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i25/25b00701.htm

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DesertSkye
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Carol Tarvis

Postby DesertSkye » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:50 am

Dazeemay(my mom) found this article in the middle of our case,,,it really helped us alot and we knew then we had a "Silver Bullet" to use against their garbage.

She has posted it a few times on here but for anyone who has not read it yet

I HIGHLY recommend reading it and even using it if you get the chance

Thanks for postin g it again

I think we should make a sticky for it and let people know what a powerful article it is and what would be really great is if someone was ever able to get her involved in a case!

Since this post my daughter is also being evaluated for Aspergers and has been diagnosed with scoliosus(sp?)

So the pain in her back they ignored and told her was growing pains was in fact real and they did nothing!
A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,

We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;

But were we burdened with like weight of pain,

As much or more we should ourselves complain.

William Shakespeare


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