Letters to the Goverment

[RKeyser]

Thank you Mr. Shaw, just say the word and tell me what I can do and I will BY GOD'S GRACE. Everyone can do as they wish but as for me,, I am going through.

[RKeyser]

scarfyrre
You need to go back as to what you said,,,, don't tell me to lighten up when I directly quoted YOU! What you stated is a slam on people who trust in God more than themself, maybe God is something you can bennifit from, you not giving a crap is also to my opinion, a misstatement because if you didn't you would have added how it is only what you were told. Looks to me like this site is more for insults, doubts and whining whoa is me. I reckon this is where I stop.

[RKeyser]

"I don't believe ANYWHERE in MY post I said "Oh, RKeyser, you're a freak." No, I said what the politicians think when they see a ranting, Bible quoting, over the top letter. It goes in the garbage. I know this because I was told this by someone that worked in the government.

"Stop taking my posts out of context. If I ever want to insult someone, I'll type out the name, otherwise it's a general statement to everyone. It was advice, but if you want your views to be wasted because you were insulted by someone offering general advice made by someone that was actually in politics, have at it."

Ofcourse if you read my popst it clearly says that I take insult to your statement, not that you intended it at me, saying that people who quote the bible and what have ya are concidered as not being smart or would be looked as freaks is what you stated and who you heard that from is the same as any other office, some believe it and some don't. Maybe you need to lighten up yourself, think of what you are saying as well as pointing out what others are saying, if you didn't give a crap you would have not put it the way you did.

[scarfyrre]

Be insulted, whatever, I'm just telling you what someone who worked in the government told me. He is also a lawyer who deals with stuff like this constantly

Letters that rant and quote the Bible tend to be treated as freaks and go right in the garbage.

I personally don't give a crap what you write. It's your campaign, do what you will. If you don't want advice from someone who knows firsthand what politicians think of over-the-top letters, then waste your time.

What would you think if every other word was in all caps and quoted, oh, let's say just for giggles, anything said by the goddess Brigid every other line? Would you read it? Would you care?

"Dear Whomever, I am SICK and TIRED of all the CRAP you put the INNOCENT FAMILIES through. You MUST listen to the PARENTS of those that BELIEVE in THE WORD OF BRIGID WHO SAYS...."

Calm, business-like letters with perhaps a well-placed quote from the Bible, Koran, Torah, whatever would be the most effective. But wtf do I know being married to a lawyer who actually worked on Capital Hill? Obviously less than anyone else. And if you think the people we voted for won't think something like the above came from an over-the-top, hysterical person, you're wrong. Any email or letter opened by his/her minion that reads like the above will be immediately thrown in the garbage/deleted.

Good luck, I hope your way does some good. I have a child to heal from the abuse of others and an advocacy group to start. I'm done arguing with a person that takes offense from something that is true but not a personal opinion.

[daddyanddede]

SCARFYRRE
I think you need to go back and read what you wrote and think about what you said. First off, don't beleive anything you hear and only half what you see. The goverment of the USA is a joke. What I am refering to is, the politicains, they are so worried about this mess across the water, they need to worry about the people right here at home that are DISTORYING everthing that our fore fathers beleived in. Now from what you have wrote (you don't beleive in God) or that is what I am seeing. LADY let me tell you this, I am 65 years old, I have saw a lot in my time and God be willing I will see a lot more. I will agree with most of what Dazeemay had to say, all of what Gary Shaw had to say and for dog gone sure all of what RKEYSER had to say. You see I, myself and my dad taught her. My dad was a preacher and he was a man that preached the bible but not only that, he lived it as well. Our fore fathers, when they came here and started this county and wrote the constitution (One Nation under God with liberty and justice for all). Then you come along and say "we have to be business like and change our way of doing". Its like this therapist that keeps coming to our house telling us "We can't live by the BOOK, we got to go man's way". Well LADY let me tell you this; I have to go man's way and send my soul to hell " don't look for it to happen. You can take your politicains and lawyers and stick them in a hole. Now I agree, we need to get some thing done about the way things are and any way someone can come up with an ideal to stop this mess, we need to do it. This county is suposed to be a Nation with Liberty and Justice for all but where is it? I am not saying all politicans and lawyers are crooked, just most of them. I have my first straight lawyer to see, you mess with them, you are going to get screwed.
I want to ask everyone a question "Do you know how to tell if a politicans and/or a lawyer is LIEING?" The answer is "Ever time he opens his mouth." I am like a old billy goat, I don't have the sence to back off and say I am whipped. I keep butting my head against the wall until it gives or I tear it down."

[scarfyrre]

Don't you DARE assume what I believe or not. EVER. My religious views are unimportant in this conversation. How HORRIBLE to even assume my beliefs, and then to judge me on whatever you've made up.

I'm going to repeat this for the final time. THIS IS A FRIENDLY SUGGESTION AND BIT OF WARNING. THIS IS NOT MY PERSONAL FEELINGS.

My husband, a lawyer, worked on capital hill with a congressman. One much beloved by his state. My husband opened this man's mail and any letter that ranted and constantly quoted the Bible was immediately thrown in the garbage. Any letter that was well-written and business-like with quotes from anywhere tastefully insterted and relevent were forwarded to the next step.

I don't know where you got the idea I don't believe in God. I don't think I've ever given my religious affiliations on this board as I don't feel that is important. I don't think it matters if I'm Christian, Jewish, or Wiccan, but do show a little respect and stop assuming we all believe the same. What matters is I want these laws changed. Obviously, neither of you can take constructive criticism without feeling personally attacked.

My husband is a lawyer, so I'm insulted you dare insult him by calling him a liar. My father-in-law is a lawyer, so you insult him as well. My brother-in-law is a lawyer, so there's three members of my family that you maligned with your sweeping generalizations. Great way to come together as a cohesive group to fight for CPS reform.

Write how you will. As I said before, good luck, I hope it works for you. I will personally be taking advice from my family of crooked lawyers, and I'll make sure to say a special prayer next devil worship day. I have to go now, my heathen self needs to go torture some puppies.

[Bob_Lynn]

Bob_Lynn was with a group who became very close minded. And threw him out.

A couple of corrections Dazee.

It wasn't the group that was close minded, it was the founder (Bruce) who only wants those who agree with him and rejects those who have other opinions. But I believe it isn't just a philosophical issue, it's that this person actually has a self-serving agenda and that his agenda is much more important than the cause he purports to be fighting for.

I wasn't thrown out, I resigned because of the above. I told him in an e-mail that I have my own mind and my own opinions and I'm not in it for "Heads" nor do I need Heads (Bruce) to tell me how and what to think. I'm in it to fight for the human and civil rights of children and their families, which is what I thought his organization was all about. The caption under "Heads Held High" reads "families helping families". And I believed and still believe that we're stronger united than apart.

I saw this post on the Heads Held High forum over a year and half ago and a few others like it when I first got involved with Heads Held High but I chalked it up to some disgruntled former members. Apparently, they saw what I eventually saw and I chose to ignore in order to try to work for the cause.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/headsheldhigh/message/530

Anyway, my apologies if this is off topic but I first read this thread last night and saw the comments regarding advocacy groups and Heads Held High as a example.

My feeling after this experience is that it's difficult to maintain a group of this type because people have many different opinions and approaches and this particular cause happens to stir a lot of emotions.

[RKeyser]

scarfyrre, so who is offended now? you say you know first hand yet you keep saying someone else told you. Look, I'm not trying to fight with you I have only quoted you and what you say is very very insulting, maybe if you stand back a bit you would see it, I dunno, but don't get so mad when someone throws it back at you.

[Dazeemay]

My feeling after this experience is that it's difficult to maintain a group of this type because people have many different opinions and approaches and this particular cause happens to stir a lot of emotions.

You said it best.

Being as we are on the subject of what to do and how to do it.

We know that Bruce is going to attack the Family Rights Act 2006 in your state when you all meet in Harrisburg.

Is this a time we can write letters, even though we are not from PA, asking that they, the Standing Committee on Children and Youth, hear your voice our voice?

I am not sure how one would word it, but I think you mentioned something one time about PA being first and wanting them to be first again. I can't remember what you mentioned your state being first in, regards to a law I believe.

We could start the letter with that plea of being first to recognize the need for the Family Rights Act 2006.

[RKeyser]

I agree dazeemay, to whom does a letter go in PA? This is where I am going to start, I am going to look up the state reps in each state so people can know to whom their letters will go.

[Dazeemay]

We need to hear from Bob_Lynn because he has spent many hours putting this Act together and we do not want to muddy the waters. He is the better judge of this.

http://www.life-vs-cps.com/

Here is the link to Bob's proposed bill; click on the words in blue Family Rights Act 2006 and you can read what he is proposing.

[RKeyser]

thank you dazeemay, will do that and you are right I don't want to mudding anyones water, we are suppose to work together not tear anyone down, thank you again hun

[scarfyrre]

scarfyrre, so who is offended now? you say you know first hand yet you keep saying someone else told you. Look, I'm not trying to fight with you I have only quoted you and what you say is very very insulting, maybe if you stand back a bit you would see it, I dunno, but don't get so mad when someone throws it back at you.

This is the last time I am going to say this. I PERSONALLY DON'T GIVE A RAT'S BOOTIE IF YOU SEND THEM THE BIBLE. I don't give a rat's toe if you believe in God or wookies.

I mearly stated that my HUSBAND, the man I married and trust with my life, worked with a congressman and any letter than sounded ranting with many unrelated Bible quotes was immediately thrown away.

How in the heck is that insulting to you personally? It's a fact. It's not like how daddyanddede outright insulted me personally by saying I don't believe in God. That is none of anyone's business. That has zero bearing on my passion to change CPS.

I suggested to ALL of us that we save our rants to the boards, and for us to send calm, business-like letters to the politicians. Email or snail mail, but if we send letters that sound like rants, they will think us freaks and toss them.

You made this personal by saying I insulted you. If I had written, "All those that quote the Bible are freaks," then you would've had an argument. I said, "I hate to sound like that, but between what I've learned from my lawyer husband and our lawyer, it's always best to maintain professionalism and to remain calm. Save the rants for the message boards, but write the politicians a business letter. We want to come across as calm and intelligent, not like a bunch of freaks. I heard it from someone that worked in a congressman's office, so I'm not talking out my behind. " Direct quote from my post. Notice the 'we' word? Not 'you', not 'me', but 'we'.

I'm finished now. My son is home, so it's obvious that my husband/lawyer English major at Amherst top of his class at Emory Law might just know what the heck he's talking about. Gosh, it's even possible *I* might know what I'm talking about. I'm totally for getting our lawmakers involved and informed, and I'm totally there with writing emails or snail mail, but I also know how these people think from first-hand experience, and if you or anyone else wishes to not think about my advice, that is totally your decision. Keep whether I believe in God, Satan, or whomever out of it.

Know why I did get pissed about that comment? Because by stating that I don't believe in God, you both automatically dismiss me as unimportant. If I were an athiest, then does that make my opinion worth any less than yours? Does that make me less worthy of my child? So yes, I am insulted at the direct attack on my religious beliefs. They are none of either of your's business, and to assume and dismiss me because I don't come across as what you consider Christian...well, I'm at a loss to even comment further.

[RKeyser]

and yet you keep calling it ranting and you keep going on and on,, look after this reply I am done with this fight with you, don't call me or anyone else "ranting" when we speak of the bible, please, all I said was what you stated was insulting and I ain't mad, yet you are, hmm, would that be ranting? I am not trying to insult you, I am just saying what you said and the way you said is insulting whether at me or anyone else. And now,,, I'm done with this topic with you, thank you.

[Bob_Lynn]

I definitely would encourage a letter writing campaign to the members of the Committee on Children & Youth. It would be better if the letters come from Pennsylvanians but I believe that if letters come from people in other states, it would emphasize that this is indeed a national crisis and not one just confined to Pennsylvania.

But please wait until they actually receive the package I will be sending them. The package will include the proposed legislation and I'm still in the process of fine tuning it and there are changes coming shortly. I will announce when the changes have been posted.

I believe what you're referring to Dazee regarding Pennsylvania's history with the Constitution is what I wrote on the Home Page of the LIFE site.

In terms of Bruce attacking the Family Rights Act, he actually said he opposes it and will make that clear to the legislature. In doing that, he will only succeed in making himself look foolish and emphasize that we are divided. Instead of sticking to the issue, he'd rather show that only his opinion matters and everyone else will be "run over" (using his own words). He keeps insisting that if it isn't approved by "Heads", meaning Bruce, it's worthless. In my opinion, this is immature and dangerous mentality and shows that he's only interested in himself and is not working for a cause affecting those outside of "Heads", unless it benefits him.

He claims he will come up with a "plan" and a "wish list". I believe that's his way of saying he doesn't want to step on any toes and that he doesn't have the educational background to propose legislation. He doesn't understand that the legislation is "sample legislation" that the legislators can use as a template to work from and not a take it or leave it ultimatum. He also doesn't understand that these people have been elected to formulate and enact legislation and are not genies in a bottle nor tinkerbells who grant "wishes".

It is pretty sad.

[Dazeemay]

But please wait until they actually receive the package I will be sending them. The package will include the proposed legislation and I'm still in the process of fine tuning it and there are changes coming shortly. I will announce when the changes have been posted.

Please listen to this. Do not send anything until Bob says it is okay.

Gary this could be a beginning.
We could go to the Rountable Forum and start composing a letter that way everyone can give their thoughts and Bob can say yay or nay to whatever we write. He knows them best.

[Bob_Lynn]

Thanks for your input Dazee. Just to clarify, I would never say "yay" or "nay" to anything anyone wants to write, I will only suggest if anyone asks for my suggestion and I will help clarify what they want to put in writing if they ask for it. I encourage everyone to say what they feel they need to say, it's important that we all maintain our personal opinions.

I will be sending a package of documentation at the end of January. This should give the members enough time to review it before the Hearings and enough time for everyone to send letters. The list of Committee members can be found by clicking on the link called "Pa. Assembly's Committee on Children & Youth" at the LIFE site at http://www.life-vs-cps.com or clicking below:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/leg ... ves_sc.cfm

You can then click on each name to get address and telephone information.

[Gary Shaw]

To All Above,

It is with a glad heart I have read all this.

Pennslyvania was the birthplace of our Constitution, was the Nation's Captial, it was the place our founding fathers met to make decisions of such import they still effect us today. It is fitting in my mind that Pennslyvania be the jumping off point of the VERY FIRST true and meaningful fight against CPS.

Beyond his wisdom and many hours of research Bob is by far the most knowledgeable in this group of Pennslyvania Laws and equally as important customs. Not only has he stepped out while many are just talking, he has been able to maintain in the face of adversity and attacks from someone supposedly on the same side. There can be no other choice for the leader of The Pennslyvania CPS Attack than Bob. I for one will be proud to follow his lead and listen for his advice in this effort.

Dazeemay, I to think this is the could be the beginning. The round table is great. I posted the "Just the Facts" there to hopefully get exactly this kind of dialog started. When we become mature enough to accept the best input from all is when we will start to win.

Timing is of the utmost importance so the thought that Bob will tell us when is very important.

Bob, you said you will never say "yah nor nah" to anything anybody wants to say. I agree that everyone has the right to their say. I however also believe that in something this important SOMEONE has to lead and make the decision as to what will be submitted and what will not, what will be Said and what will not. We all know that one wrong statement, one wrong presentation, one wrong word is all they need to turn us away. You have the knowledge in Pa., for me I vote that you lead and control the Pennslyvania fight. The rest of us will get our chance as we earn it. The best Army in the world would be quickly defeated without good leadership.

To the rest above, you are all in time out for 1 minute, (BIG JOKE GUYS). Ok now let's pull together to make this a major victory. Remember we can all use the victory in Pennslyvania to farther our fights at home.

[gideonmacleish]

I will wait for Bob to give the OK to write PA legislators, because it makes sense. That will be AFTER I've "officially" announced my candidacy, so even though I am in another state, I am hoping they will give it some weight. The way i intend to address it is to encourage PA legislatures to "take the lead" in what well may be "historically the first major civil rights movement of the 21st century" (feel free to use my terminology in your own letters if you wish). If we can do ANYTHING to help get this legislation passed in Pennsylvania, it will give all of us across the nation a stronger foothold in our own fights.

[RKeyser]

Bob_Lynn, I too will wait till you give the word, thank you for all your help.

[RKeyser]

lol time out Mr. Shaw? but we only think of what else we can do in time out (just an add on to the joke) thanks, laughter is always good

[daddyanddede]

To all on this site.
I know now there are a lot of poeple that don't like me this is not something new.

To Scarfyrre
I would like to say this: If anyone out there is rantting and raving it has to be you but if you don't like the truth I'm sorry for you. All these things that you have been saying in your post, Idon't know what your beleive is but you see I do care I am not putting you down or making fun of you and if that is the way you took what I have said in me post I am sorry for you, but I do think you need to set down and get everthing else of your mind and read and study the bible. I don't think I have told you anything wrong or misleading. I think I can prove that by the book.

To Bob_Lynn
According to the history of the US, to my best remimbence) of my time going to school, PA was were it started in earlyer times and like Gary, Dazeemay, and RKEYSER to name three that have posted on this board GO FOR IT MAN! You have all my respect and my support. Just let me know when its going down. I may not be able to be there in person but I am with you 100%.

To Mr Shaw
Us old goats have to sticky together talk to you later.

[RKeyser]

great words daddy, we need to back a little off scarrfyyre and pray for her, but your words ring true for everyone, and thank you for standing your ground.

[Bob_Lynn]

I want to thank you all for your kind words and especially for your support. I will do my best to coordinate our efforts and represent all the victims of CPS who can't be there.

I will post announcements so timings can be coordinated to achieve optimum effect.

Good luck to all of us!

Bob

[RKeyser]

Amen