How many points do you have against you already

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DesertSkye
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How many points do you have against you already

Postby DesertSkye » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:23 am

Yesterday
I spoke with a paralegal who told me that they had found out from social services that
DSS/CPS whatever you want to call them

They have a "point" system they use to determine whther or not the

"abuse" that has happened is mild moderate etc

Two or more points and you will be charged with moderate or above and moderate or above means you will have to substantiate to abuse

BUT!!!!! and you will not believe this

You get one point for each and every child you already have :shock:
soooooooooooo

If you have two or more children you are already "screwed"

She was appalled to find this out and so am I
They found out because a case they had a mom had reached behind her to grab her child to keep them from falling and in the process her fingernail made a mark on the child so insignificant it was silly
but someone saw it turned it in and guess what

yep
Thankfully though the case was closed
but someone ran with it because
1. she had two children so that put her in a point category of "moderate abuse risk" already
2. a mark was left on the child........

SICK

what if they had not had someone intelligent enough to close the case
can you imagine these two children being torn from their family because the mom instinctively tried to keep her child from falling

It happens every day for even lesser things

There was a mom on an e-list i am on who "used to work for fostr care" and she was getting angry with everyone who said anything bad about them or cps

She said "thank god the state was there to take Katie wernecke away form her parents"
I was like OMG woman do you not read
the child went from having an 80% chance of surviving this cancer when they took her from her familoy to 20% by the time she was given back to them........

TO ME THATS BLACK AND WHITE EVIDENCE OF THE FACT THAT SHE WAS NOT BEING TAKEN CARE OF BY THE system!!

What in the heck does it take to wake people up
A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,
We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
As much or more we should ourselves complain.
William Shakespeare

Dan Sullivan
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Re: How many points do you have against you already

Postby Dan Sullivan » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:11 am

DesertSkye wrote:Yesterday
I spoke with a paralegal who told me that they had found out from social services that
DSS/CPS whatever you want to call them

They have a "point" system they use to determine whther or not the

"abuse" that has happened is mild moderate etc

Two or more points and you will be charged with moderate or above and moderate or above means you will have to substantiate to abuse

BUT!!!!! and you will not believe this

You get one point for each and every child you already have :shock:
soooooooooooo

If you have two or more children you are already "screwed"


This is just a misunderstanding on the part of the paralegal.

It doesn't work that way.

Dan

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DesertSkye
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I don't know then

Postby DesertSkye » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:49 am

She told me that the caseworker on this case actuallyshowed her and the attorney the page intheir manual

But I need to correct something
the points are for "risk of abusing" so the more kids you have the more points you have against you as a higher risk

then its added to the points of how bad the mark was or whatever the case may be

I don't know she is an intelligent woman she was 90% of why we won our case and is really trying to learn how to help people more...

She let us help her and educate her but she is really intelligent and once we started showing her stuff she started researching and pushing harder for us

This weekend I will look thru the manual since we have it and its huge so I can't do it now but I remember also seeing or reading somewhere soemthign they use to decide how much of a risk you are to abuse your kids

so she may have misunderstood it and so i will try to find it and scan it and post it so its corrected
A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,

We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;

But were we burdened with like weight of pain,

As much or more we should ourselves complain.

William Shakespeare

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pebbles04
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Postby pebbles04 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:06 pm

In pertains to this...this is just sick and horrible and twisted...if that is the case..that means that I was totaly stiffed from the get go ...cuz I had four kids that were they were trying to put into the system and then on top of that they were trying to use multiple reasons to support that.

I am totally appalled by that..it is insane and ludicroius ...I cant believe that they have a point scale... :evil:
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**
(that is my quote)

luvmyboyz
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Postby luvmyboyz » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:15 pm

This stuff makes me so sick... My husband (now passed) and I always wanted to adopt... If the CPS stuff came while he was alive (I may have not be "so alone" in this), I don't know how things may have turned out being he had a congental heart deffect and all.

Man things need to change.

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:28 pm

The points system may not be on paper, per se, but I have heard CPS Worker has bragging system, they would talk to other Workers in the Office, and would celebrate, and would comment on their cases, with a point scale like you mentioned.

I heard this from a Mole from inside the CPS office, she told me that she already overheard that the two Workers were swapping cases and would comment about the probability to charge the parents with Child Abuse or neglect, and how to attack them, like (bragging) and she heard that one of the case was mine, and she told me the name of the person in my Case was exactly right. I thought wow, now the other Workers knows alot about my case becaues this Worker told to her Husband which in turn told to my Boyfriend. Her husband and my Boyfriend were Fishing Buddies. :roll: Her husband told my boyfriend that they had alot of bragging system in the Office and would be laughing and celebrating, and that she would comment the pamphlet or flyer that was up for Adoption on the Counter with a Money Bucket!! It is a money bucket where you can put a dollar or whatever money to support the Adoption system. It just makes me sick. Why put the money in the Money Bucket where you know they have lots of Fundings and Donations from the State and People? :shock: Just makes me sick to hear they were bragging about Confidential Cases on Families.

Now, I am sure they are breaking Confidentiality Clause as mentioned in the Manual, but I guess nothing is stopping them, because they had immunity rights. :roll:
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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pebbles04
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Postby pebbles04 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:09 pm

we have already determined though that they are sick individuals...it is apparant..who knows...well regardless of the fact..breach of confidentiality is something they do all the time...it is nothing new to us people on this site...lol...I know that they are corrupt and I think that they need to go down...although I am sure that could be awhile before that ever happens...
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**

(that is my quote)

Bob_Lynn
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Re: How many points do you have against you already

Postby Bob_Lynn » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:24 pm

DesertSkye wrote:They have a "point" system they use to determine whther or not the

"abuse" that has happened is mild moderate etc


I know Michigan has a point system that is so ridiculously skewed that anyone who breathes and has children will amass enough points to fail.

Some other states have similar systems and virtually all are bogus nonsense.

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pebbles04
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Postby pebbles04 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:38 pm

well I had four kids so it was like a problem in itself when it came to that cuz if it was a point for each individual thing and one for each kid...well hell I didnt have a chance ...EVER
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**

(that is my quote)

luvmyboyz
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Postby luvmyboyz » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:05 pm

me either.... :?

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Greegor
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Postby Greegor » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:09 am

On January 11th, Dan Sullivan wrote
> This is just a misunderstanding on the part of the paralegal.
> It doesn't work that way.
> Dan

Dan knows that they do in fact use such a decision "instrument".
The scoring sheets were designed by a company called
Structured Decision Making for many states to use.
If you go to their website they have disclaimers that
their score sheets are not to be used for decision making,
but the company is called Structured Decision Making.

It seems like they're hoping to dodge law suits.

Several Parents Rights groups have copies of these "instruments"
from several states. I have a scanned in image of one from
Michigan put away somewhere.

They vary quite a bit from state to state.

A Parents Rights activist determined that with the Michigan
one, a single Mom with two kids, who lives in the country
is guilty before she even opens the door to a caseworker.

In fact, the "instrument" can be used to determine
that almost anybody is guilty of abusing their kids,
even if they work for the Foster Care agency or CPS.

How do they let their friends escape?

Easy! The form has a huge built in fudge factor
that enables the caseworker using it to raise
or lower the score depending on their bias.

It seems the intent and purpose was to
standardize the process to make it fair and even,
but the fudge factor parts make that a farce also.

Families are scored down for:

Having 2 or more kids
Living in the country
Slaughtering animals (on a farm?)
Owning a deer rifle

This has ALL been discussed in the newsgroups
where Dan was a regular participant.
It is highly unlikely that Dan missed the discussion
or the link to the scanned in "instrument".

On January 11th, Dan Sullivan wrote
> This is just a misunderstanding on the part of the paralegal.
> It doesn't work that way.
> Dan

What is Dan's intent in saying the above?

Bob_Lynn
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Postby Bob_Lynn » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:22 am

Greegor wrote:What is Dan's intent in saying the above?


You have to ask? See my post earlier in this thread about Michigan, if you and I knew about it you can bet Dan knew as well.

Dan Sullivan
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Postby Dan Sullivan » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:19 am

Greegor wrote: On January 11th, Dan Sullivan wrote
> This is just a misunderstanding on the part of the paralegal.
> It doesn't work that way.
> Dan

Dan knows that they do in fact use such a decision "instrument".


And if you didn't delete what I was referring to everybody would see you're... I don't know... pick a word, Greg.

Sophomoric would be kind.

You do this all the time.

You have an erroneous premise.


Greegor wrote: On January 11th, Dan Sullivan wrote
> This is just a misunderstanding on the part of the paralegal.
> It doesn't work that way.
> Dan

What is Dan's intent in saying the above?


My intent is to make it known that it was a misunderstanding on the part of the paralegal.
Last edited by Dan Sullivan on Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DesertSkye
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Paralegal and the point system

Postby DesertSkye » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:40 am

It seems it may be used in some states and not others

I now know for sure it is used in North Carolina and have been told in TN also.


According to others it seems it is being used in other places too

And of course as we all have seen
Sadly kids who have been in foster care and are now parents are on the hit list too!


Just another way they will use almost anything and everything against people........
A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,

We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;

But were we burdened with like weight of pain,

As much or more we should ourselves complain.

William Shakespeare

Bob_Lynn
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Postby Bob_Lynn » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:21 am

These contrived "point systems" belong in the toilet. Even if CPS were on the level, no investigation can be concluded and no judgment can be made based on a point system. Every case is unique and every case should be judged on its own merit.

daddyanddede
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POST SUBJECT

Postby daddyanddede » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:13 pm

FOLKS PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY OR POST BIG BRO IS WATCHING AND WE MAW SAY OR POST SOME THING HE DOSE NOT LIKE SO OUR POST CAN BE DELETED OR WE WILL BE BANED FROM POSTING HERE I DONT HAVE TO CALL HIS NAME HE KNOWS WHO HE IS I AGREE WHITH what EVER ONE THAT HAS POSTER HERE BUT ONE mYOU SEE I HAVE BEEN SCREW FROm THE WORD GET GO BECAUSEDI HAVE 17 CHILDERN 36 GRAND CHILDERN MY MOIHER AT HER 80 th brthday party was able to see 91 of her grand childern
:evil: :twisted: Cottenmouth a VERY PO old man

blueeyes97603
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I dont know about a point system in other states but CA

Postby blueeyes97603 » Wed May 17, 2006 7:11 pm

I dont know about a point system in other states but CA uses SDM. I found out about it when I researching thier sight.
http://www.childsworld.ca.gov/res/pdf/2 ... Manual.pdf
B Eyes

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Greegor
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Postby Greegor » Thu May 18, 2006 7:29 am

> Dan Sullivan Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:19 am
> And if you didn't delete what I was referring to
> everybody would see you're... I don't know...
> pick a word, Greg.
> Sophomoric would be kind.

Dan, I have never deleted anything I posted
to a newsgroup or to this BLOG/site.
I honestly don't know how because I feel no need to.

> You have an erroneous premise.

Haven't you seen the scanned in Michigan "instrument"?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=st ... ion+making

California Department of Social Services - Children and Family ...Structured Decision Making ... the California Department of Social Services (CDSS) initiated the Structured Decision Making (SDM) Project. ...
www.dss.cahwnet.gov/cfsweb/Structured_352.htm

Facts sheetsStructured Decision Making: Improving child protection. PDF version DHS image. Structured Decision Making is a set of tools social workers use to improve ...
www.dhs.state.mn.us/main/groups/ publications/documents/pub/dhs_id_005345.hcsp


[DOC] Structured Decision MakingFile Format: Microsoft Word 2000 - View as HTML
Structured decision-making (SDM) refers to a series of assessment tools designed ... Examples of structured decision-making assessments in use may be seen ...
www.neglected-delinquent.org/nd/ events/2004oct/Presentations/DCRWaughstruc.doc

[PDF] EVALUATION OF MICHIGAN S FOSTER CARE STRUCTURED DECISION MAKING ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
DESCRIPTION OF FOSTER CARE STRUCTURED DECISION MAKING (SDM). The pilot SDM procedures developed by the core team were designed to enhance FIA’s existing ...
www.michigan.gov/documents/FIA-FCEval_14306_7.pdf

Disposition and Structured Decision MakingIn DHS these assessments are collectively referred to as structured decision making (SDM). SDM provides casework tools that promote consistent, reliable, ...
www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,1607,7-124-5452_ 7119_7194-15399--,00.html

DCFS - Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family ...Structured Decision Making. What is SDM? SDM Goals? 1. What is Structued Decision Making? The burden of child welfare agencies is to provide services with ...
dcfs.co.la.ca.us/safety/structured.html

Structured Decision MakingThis book provides the theoretical background and detailed instructions for using Interpretive Structural Modeling for effective decision-making, ...
www.sorach.com/book.html

Success ScienceThe following Figure depicts the OR/MS/DS/SS structured decision-making process approach. ... Structured Decision-Making Process and Its Components: ...
home.ubalt.edu/ntsbarsh/opre640/opre640.htm

Juvenile Justice Bulletin -- July 2001 -- Preventing Delinquency ...The primary goals of the Structured Decision Making model are to (1) bring a greater degree of consistency, objectivity, and validity to child welfare case ...
www.ncjrs.gov/html/ojjdp/jjbul2001_7_1/page3.html

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Greegor
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Postby Greegor » Thu May 18, 2006 10:12 am

http://www.cwla.org/programs/r2p/cvarticlesrisk.htm

The best-known actuarial system is Structured Decision
Making (SDM), developed by the
Children's Research Center of the National
Council on Crime and Delinquency in California.
SDM includes a range of
instruments designed for intake screening, assessing
immediate and longer-term risks of abuse and neglect,
and managing cases in which the level of risk may
require ongoing services for the child and family.
Developed in collaboration with each of the dozen
different jurisdictions using SDM in the United
States and Australia, the system looks slightly
different from one site to the next. Michigan's
SDM system was a finalist for the 2002 Innovations
in American Government Award from Harvard
University's John F. Kennedy School of
Government and the Council for Excellence in
Government. Research has demonstrated all of
these systems can improve the consistency and
accuracy of child protection decisions.
Studies have not supported initial fears
that risk assessment tools would be used
to justify using less-qualified staff. Rather,
the best systems require well-qualified staff
capable of using both structured protocols
and professional judgment. How an agency
implements a system may be as important
as the model itself. Caseworkers often view
formalized risk assessment as more useful
for agency accountability than for making
better decisions for children and families.
Some studies have shown that assessment
tools are not used in making decisions at
all, but only applied after the fact to
meet documentation requirements and
justify actions caseworkers have already
taken. Other research has found evidence
that caseworkers intentionally inflate
initial assessments of risk to ensure
a family's access to limited services.

From Greg
Apparently this abomination was spawned in
California at the "Children's Research
Center of the National Council on Crime
and Delinquency" and apparently this
social sickness is already being spread
to Australia!

Today Michigan, tomorrow the WORLD!

Parents Rights advocates walking through
a hypothetical case have already showed
how the "idiot sheet", "assessment tool"
easily decides that innocent parents are
guilty and that children should be removed
that ABSOLUTELY should not be removed,
AND that if by some freak accident parents
manage to score WELL, the entire thing
is easily overruled by the caseworker
and/or their supervisor!

These "idiot sheets" are more or less
a paper extension of the caseworker
attitudes that see GUILT everywhere!


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