Breaking story...someone help...tell me

[pebbles04]

Ok..let me see if I can make this short...dont really know how short I can or can not make it. As some of the people know already I have lost my kids to the system...and as far as I am aware of they were adopted. My two boys...by two seperate families. I know that at some point I noticed that there was a paper in the file that actually said that these people wanted to adopt my son. Regardless guess that point is quite irrelevant aside from the fact that it shows where I am getting at.
Just last night my sister and I were talking and she asked me if I had seen the news story online about my son's foster father and I told her no that I wasnt. She began to tell me how he was severely intoxicated and that he was carrying around a gun and threatening to shoot the family dog. My question is ...this is the kind of place that they put our kids...my son is most definately NOT in a safe place. What in the world.??
He was detained and taken into custody. Of course the internet stops there and only states what happened and that they took him in and arrested him and that he had mug shots taken (as I saw them on the article).
I guess the question I would like to ask is..I know they terminated my rights...but I was told in the past that I could file for custody of my boys against the adoptive parents. It was up to the judge to decide whether to give them back to me. And I was originally planning on it. They said that I would be fighting the adoptive parents not the social services department. So I guess my question is does anyone know what I can do if anything? I contacted the news station and am waiting to hear back from them and see if they will do a follow up story on this man and include my son but I guess my main concerns are making sure he is still there in their home before I pursue something and make sure that NOTHING has happened to him. Someone help me...I would be ever so grateful if someone would!!

[Marina]

I just posted this yesterday,

How to file for custody
http://forum.fightcps.com/viewtopic.php?t=5448

Some of the links are for Virginia, just because I live here and they serve as examples that may help others.

Here is the Code of Virginia for Domestic relations:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... TOC2000000

Custody and visitation arrangements for Minor Children
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... 0010000000

Definitions
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+20-124.1

"Person with a legitimate interest" shall be broadly construed...

A party with a legitimate interest shall not include any person (i) whose parental rights have been terminated by court order, either voluntarily or involuntarily, (ii) whose interest in the child derives from or through a person whose parental rights have been terminated, either voluntarily or involuntarily, including but not limited to grandparents, stepparents, former stepparents, blood relatives and family members, if the child subsequently has been legally adopted, except... (if the child is adopted by the step-parent)

[pebbles04]

So are you basically stating that I am not able to file and that someone else has to file this petition in order to fit within the requirements cuz my rights were terminated of this child?

[Marina]

Probably, according to what it appears in the law.
It appears that neither you, nor your friends and relatives have any "legal standing" at this point, unless you are filing an appeal.
I remember seeing that item in the last few days, and thought it was relevant.

I know that during each of the hearings before Termination of Parental Rights, relatives or interested parties can come forward and petition for custody of the children, either through guardianship, relative foster care, relative adoption or open adoption. In those cases, you would have more rights.
Under legal guardianship, you would still have some parental rights, like making medical and educational decisions. You could also have physical custody in this case, possibly.
Under relative foster care, you would have visitation according to the court order or facilitation of DSS.
Under an open adoption, you would have continued contact of some kind, I suppose, according to the court terms.

Those references in the Child Welfare law don't tell how a relative can file for custody, and there appear to be no forms on the Juvenile Courts website.

Also, there is the issue of whether Social Services has to approve the placement. A court recently ruled that the judge can over-rule a DSS decision about the suitability of a placement in situations where Child Welfare is involved.

Why don't you do a search for
"child custody" + virginia
and see what you can find.

Try some other searches also, such as
lawyer + child custody + your town
etc.

And you could try to call your local juvenile court and ask them for information.

[Frustrated]

Get a Lawyer.

That way you will know for sure what your Rights are to regain Custody of your Son because he was put in danger environment.

What a World it is coming to! They put Children in harm's way all the time and that scares me.

We are supposed to PROTECT these Children, not put them in harm's way.

Too many Children are being put in abusive Environment every day. I do feel for these Children. I just hope they have Children's Rights PROTECTED and they should say what they want to say but rather silenced. If they were 12 or over, they would have said something, but rather very, very difficult if the Children are smaller children and easily silenced.

It is just too frustrating in this Society we are currently living in. Nothing is being done and it is being messed up too often. All we can do is to try to change the Laws to accomodate the Children better than before.

[pebbles04]

Yea I understand the things that it states when it comes to the kids and relatives and what not. But I do know that when it comes to the situation this case was done and this SOB came into court constantly and wore his uniform and they would think that he was an honest person. I know that he isnt and now so do tons of other people (considering it is in the news). I just wanted to make sure that I asked someone. I was also told that in pertains to the situation that once the adoption and all the other stuff was concluded that social services were no longer involved. They are not going to worry about it. They won and they received the money they wanted for my kids. That is just the tip of the iceburg.
The other thing is that on top of that my son is old enough to register wrong and he can say something. A judge 9 times out of 10 will listen to a smaller child and decide whether he would or would not grant it. And then when the child is 12 they are less likely to say no. Regardless my son will be 11 in April. So I think they would actually listen to him. Not to mention that even if I filed the case wouldnt be heard for quite some time.
Also the other thing is that on top of all that this case is kind of the reason I would have won. They wouldn't have ever won if they didnt have the foster parents coming in and lying for them and needless to say I think that the crediability of these specific foster parents is gone. I also think that this should be a review. I am going to talk to a lawyer but there has to be something that can be done. This is not a matter of foster parents ...these are his adoptive parents and this is the stuff that my son has to endure. So I would like to at least go to court and ask that they place him in another adoptive home if the circumstances permit me asking. At least they will see that even without rights that I am concerned for my child's welfare.

[Frustrated]

Another way, you could have pursue a Civil Lawsuit against CPS and the Adoptive Parents for putting your Son in danger. You have the proof now, the news media. You can petition the courts to have him placed in a safe environment. That is your Right because you are concerned, same for the rest of our Society would be concerned too.

Ask your Lawyer alot of Questions and see what you can do.

[Marina]

Here is the VA law on Appeals of Termination of Parental Rights:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+16.1-296

D. When an appeal is taken in a case involving termination of parental rights brought under § 16.1-283, the circuit court shall hold a hearing on the merits of the case within 90 days of the perfecting of the appeal. An appeal of the case to the Court of Appeals shall take precedence on the docket of the Court.

I. In all cases on appeal, the circuit court in the disposition of such cases shall have all the powers and authority granted by the chapter to the juvenile and domestic relations district court. Unless otherwise specifically provided by this Code, the circuit court judge shall have the authority to appoint counsel for the parties and compensate such counsel in accordance with the provisions of Article 6 (§ 16.1-266 et seq.) of this chapter.

- - - - - - - - - -

This is the Termination of Parental Rights law.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+16.1-283

- - - - - - - - - - -

This is the law about whether you can get a court-appointed lawyer.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+16.1-266

[pebbles04]

I am understanding of all that cuz I went through that entire thing and went all the way up to the supreme court...this is a new discovery about my son and I know that it should go back against them. I dont know if there is anything I can do right this second but I DO know that in pertains to it even if I dont get custody I am going to make sure to it that I fight the hell out of it for him to be with me as well as fight the hell out of things to assure that my son is NOT in the same home as opposed to one where I know he is being taken care of. So that is what I aim to do. The termination that you have posted is in pertains to the termination when I was going through the proceedings and I am saying that my rights were terminated in April 2004 and the case went to the appellant court as well as the Supreme court and has been closed and what not. They were adopted. But this man is most definately NOT safe.
Aside from that I said that he would come to court wearing his uniform so that the judge would think that when he was lying he was telling the truth because GOD FORBID our police officers would be liars. So she gave him credibility. And I know that since he is IN THE PAPER..there has MOST DEFINATELY been a change of events and I am wondering if I can get the case reopened.
That is the first thing...the other thing is ..In any state you can file for ANYONE'S child and have a court hearing on the docket. It is just up to the judge to decide whether they will accept the petition from that person and whether they will or wont grant custody. I know chances are I can file this in the court it just doesnt mean that the judge is going to grant that for me. I also think that this is a chance to get this out in the open for Virginia. I know that we need some change here when it comes to Social Services and also comes to the entire thing with foster care and the such.
Where are all the social workers and foster parents on the site. Cant one of you guys answer my questions!!? I know that regardless of the situation that I am filing for a lawsuit against social services for placing my child in that home and putting his life in danger. That is a definate....

[Greegor]

pebbles,
The legal logic will be that the foster/adopters problems
in no way change the things that got your parental
rights terminated. The accuser in our case was
a Prozac case grandmother who obsessively WANTED
the child. Through our entire 5.5 year struggle the
agency never once got the Prozac grandma to
a psychologist or psychiatrist for an evaluation
even though she was the hostile KINSHIP CARETAKER.

They tried to conceal the mental infirmity of the
hostile kinship caretaker because she was
the accuser!

They actually sided with a MENTAL CASE and
their legal posture throughout was that
this had NOTHING to do with our failings,
even though the Prozac grandma lied and
accused us of things in the first place!

There is also a legal concept that a placement
needs to be CONDUCIVE TO REUNIFICATION,
and the caretakers were HOSTILE to this.

NOW, If they will do all of that on an ONGOING
basis over many legal objections, just imagine
how they would handle a case where they
got a TPR and it's done and over for you?


The times to fight this:

1. Don't let the worker in your door in the first place
without a warrant.

2. Do not stipulate unless you intend to give up your kids.
(It's functionally a guilty plea!)

3. Demand the full adjudication hearing and subpoena
dozens of people who know you don't abuse your kid.
Cross examine their witnesses against you thoroughly.

4. File court pleadings often.
Learn how to do it right and practice often.

5. Object to garbage in every one of their reports to court.
File these objections in a court pleading BEFORE COURT.

6. Motion for things you are legally entitled to but not getting.
(Appeal to state Appeals court when local court rules
against you or (the usual) just ignores it for 90 days.)

6. Fight in court against Termination of Parental Rights.
(Subpoenas, cross examinations, etc.)

7. Appeal that if you need to.

8. Appeal higher if you need to.

All appeals must be TIMELY. Don't sit on it.

[pebbles04]

well as for that. I know that regardless...I am not asking (and that is not to be rude) what it is that can or cant be done in most cases. I know that I have the stuff to blow this out of the water. This is not a matter of me thinking someone is psychotic and trying to pursue it. This is on the news. All you got to do is know the name of the person and put it in the web browser and it is right there. I am by no means am leaving my child there. If that means that I got to go to jail to fight in what I believe in then so be it that is what I am going to do. But I WILL NOT leave my son is a househould where the jerk is walking around with a gun in his hand and being amazingly drunk at 6:30 in the evening. There are kids a little smaller then that in that house. My son is smart enough to dial 911 or even smart enough to run into a room and close the door. And lock it. But the other kids are defensiveless and cant do that. So I am concerned about not only MY SON but the other kids that they have there. So if it means that I go to jail so that my son is in a safer and better environment along with the other kids then so be it. He is a child and deserves far better then what he is getting. Taking him away from me for absolutely NO REASON (all cuz i didnt have the money to fight them) and placing him with a raving lunatic is wrong. Someone that drinks amongst children at 6 something in the evening. Sorry I am rambling it just gets me so irate and disgusted when I even think about it. I dont mean to be rude. Just frustrated.

[Marina]

If you know abuse is occurring, then ANYONE can call 911 or Social Services or the Child Abuse Hotline.

But the police are already involved here, and the police KNOW that child abuse is occurring, and they KNOW that they should call CPS.

Was Child Protective Services mentioned in the News?

If not, call the Child Abuse Hotline and make an anonymous report yourself.

Call the police and make a police report so it will be documented if you want it on record that you are making every effort in the world to protect these children. You can at least get involved as a witness. I suppose you could give them a written statement.

Since abuse has occurred, the children should have a Guardian ad litum again, I suppose, and you could call the court and ask the GAL to contact you and give her a statement on the children's behalf.

If you petition the court for custody or to become their guardian, the court may not agree to hear the case, or it may not rule in your favor, but until one of those things happens, I suppose it will give you legal standing in this case temporarily, and you may get access to pertinent information. If you get lucky, you may get a public defender appointed to you.

[pebbles04]

No social services is NOT involved apparantly. And considering this took place a long time ago...(well not too long) I am assuming that he got away with it as well. Which means that my son is still in that environment. I am not looking to call into the hotline. I dont trust those people. We do not have a guardian ad litem cuz the as* decided that while in the process of screwing me over he was trying to become a judge. So he is NO LONGER on the case cuz he is a judge.

I want my child to be safe but I am not going to sit there and have this SOB get mad and try to do something to my son cuz he is pissed that i am having him investigated. I cant believe that they didnt do a home study for him to evaluate these kinds of things. And I seriously think that they could give two shi&s considering they got what they wanted out of the deal and that is MONEY for my two boys. I think that if he was killed they would rightfully back out and try to go into hiding and say nothing was wrong and make it look like they KNOW NOTHING. I hate where he is and all I want is to remove him from there and have him placed somewhere else if not with me.

I dont know what the possibilities are...and I completely understand the NORMAL laws...but I am stating if this is publicly brought to the attention of EVERYONE and filed in a different court then what is the legal standing. And since my case has been closed since Feb. 2005 does that mean that I can file in another city...like the city that all this took place and where his adoptive father resides.??

[Marina]

All we know is what is in the law.

It seems that it has to go through CPS, then the courts, etc. in the locality where it is happening.

If nobody will do anything, there are instructions in the Rules of Juvenile Court below on how to file a petition directly with the court, and quote the laws that are being violated.

Code of Virginia


Welfare

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... TOC6302000


Child Abuse and Neglect

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... 0000000000


VA Domestic Relations laws

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... TOC2000000



VA Juvenile and Domestic Relations Courts

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... 0000000000


Legislative Informations System
Rules of the Supreme Court
Part Eight Juvenile and Domestic Relations Courts
Contents of Petitions in Certain Proceedings.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... r+vscr-8Z3

[pebbles04]

No offense but that is the point that I am TRYING to establish. This case should NOT involve social services cuz he is adopted. Meaning Social Services wiped their hands clear of this child whenever it was finalized. So I am highly doubting that you have to go through all that. Now if that is the case then so be it but I am most definately NOT going to go and ask social services with all the hell they caused me if they would do this or that cuz I dont trust them anymore then I can pick them up and throw them. Sorry but that is how it is. When you have been through as much crap and lies as I have and still dealing with the lies and such you tend to not want to turn to them for a thing.

So in the future I dont understand why social services would have to get involved considering this is a case totally aside from them. If the proceedings that were taking place were actually still in place and I was still going through the appeal process and they WERE NOT adopted then I could understand. I dont know if people are establishing that or if they havent and that is what they are putting up.

So please dont take what I am saying as rude cuz I just want to make sure that I make things clearer and then I know if the guidelines you are giving me are the same applied. I know that this is no longer before review...home study...jurisdiction....etc etc...with the DSS agency therefore I could not quite understand what relevance they would have in a custody/removal from the home in which he is in.

These people wouldnt do a daggone thing anyways if I came forward. Even though the stuff is on the net...in the newspapers..they would make some excuse due to the lack of being able to admit that they were wrong. I have absolutely NO RESPECT for these people and I want to venture as far away as possible from them. I am not going to trust in these some jerks to help me out this time cuz I know they wont and they will just dig me a deeper hole.

The Guardian ad litem also is a judge...so if I were to file this could I ask for a jurisdiction change anyways and request that the reason in which I want this is due to the fact that there is a personal issue with the one judge and that I dont think that I would get a fair trial with him having free access to say as he pleases to other judges? My sister keeps telling me that if I have another case in the Juvenile courts in my city that HE CAN NOT be my judge cuz it would be a conflict of interest. He is a judge...do you honestly think he is not going to overstep his rights and boundaries as a judge and go ahead and LET ME SEE him and rule against me and then fail to tell the higher ups that he used to have me as a case prior to becoming a judge. HELL NO!! He is going to throw the book at me due to the lack of concern or like towards me.

So yea sorry to go rambling on. I was just wondering about that. MY son is no longer in the foster care system. He is adopted by this family. I would think that the custody battle would be like any other custody battle in this country. You legally can file for ANY kid in the US...as long as you know the information to provide on the paperwork. And of course Given the JUDGE will grant it. I can petition & the judge can say no...or even so much as yes. So I know and as far as I am aware of as long as it is a new order and a different situation (not being foster care or DSS) then it shouldnt be a problem and the judge would be the one that decides to change it. Plus the other thing...

Someone tell me this...I know that there is an age requirement when a child can determine he/she wants to stay with a specific family member. Even though I am his real mother with my rights terminated can he when he is old enough be requested to be returned back to me? Just thought I would get that curiousity out of the way.
Sorry to go on and on and on..but I had to put something..LOL..thanks!!!

[Momoffor]

If I understand what you are getting at pebbles, I do understand what you are talking about when the child becomes X years old they can choose who they want to live with. THat is in the cases of divorces. Not Adoptions. Even if he stated he wanted to live with you, that bears as much as my son stating that he wants to live with Jim Bob up the street.

Legally, you are no longer in the picture as a parent.

And I dont want to be the bearer of bad news...BUT ....the reality of it is, even if you did file for custody, I dont think that any court would give it to you based on the grounds that your rights have already been terminated. GAME OVER ..(sadly)

Even if it is shown that CPS had your son in a bad foster home, all they can do is move him. As far as a bad foster home, all they would do is become involved with the family the same way the did with you offering services ect.

The other reality of the matter, Even if you were to get it cleared up that you didnt neglect or abuse your child, doesnt mean you would get the children back if they were already adopted. You would have to fight the adoptive family for custody. There was a case in the 80's where a mother was accused of killing her daughter. Her husband was accused of covering it up. They were both put in prison and their children adopted out. After a rights group many years later (I believe it was a college that reasearched it) discovered that it was not murder or abuse the parents were freed and names cleared, but their children who were still minors were not returned. THe adoptive parents were nice enough to let the parents still be a part of the childs life.

The adoptive parents would have to either agree to give the children back, or court orders it. Which they will view as tramatic and not go for it anyhow IMO.

And greegor stated, the foster home that your son was placed in was not the reason your rights were terminated. Maybe their lies in court helped it, but thats not what got your involved with the system in the first place. CPS has removed themselves once the adoption was final, and the only way to get them involved again is for the family to have social services called on them.

BTW, I think it would still be redundant because it could just be passed off as a break down from work AFTER the fact. You would have to prove this exsisted PRIOR to your son being placed with this family in order for anything to be done publically. (Just my opinion from someone who has learned alot about loopholes since moving to the loophole 'commonwealth' 'state').

[Marina]

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... +63.2-1215

§ 63.2-1215. Legal effects of adoption.

The birth parents, and the parents by previous adoption, if any, other than any such parent who is the husband or wife of one of the petitioners, shall, by final order of adoption, be divested of all legal rights and obligations in respect to the child including the right to petition any court for visitation with the child.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... +63.2-1216

§ 63.2-1216. Final order not subject to attack after six months.

After the expiration of six months from the date of entry of any final order of adoption from which no appeal has been taken to the Court of Appeals, the validity thereof shall not be subject to attack in any proceedings, collateral or direct, for any reason, including but not limited to fraud, duress, failure to give any required notice, failure of any procedural requirement, or lack of jurisdiction over any person, and such order shall be final for all purposes.

[pebbles04]

what the hell is that last thing?? How long does an adoption take to go through!!?

[Marina]

Here are the adoption laws:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... 0000000000

Final order of adoption:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... +63.2-1213

Keep in mind that some of these laws probably pertain more to a mother giving up a baby at birth voluntarily.

I don't know how this section of code fits in with a CPS case exactly.

[Mistchf]

I'm disturbed to see this is from 2004...were there any updates?