Heartbroken Family - Justice for Sale

[HeartbrokenNana]

CPS in Louisiana took my granddaughter from my daughter on October 1, 2013 so in comparison to a lot of these cases, we are just beginning the battle. I have learned one thing during this struggle, if you have the money, you can obtain justice. We have located an attorney to help who was referred by several family law attornies in the area when calling to inquire about assistance. We have been told that she is the best when it comes to dealing with CPS issues and the most qualified. At a price tag of $5500.00 to start with, we can be assured of my granddaughter's return.

My daughter got pregnant her first year of college. She was swept off her feet by a 'player' and was on birth control but due to illness and antibiotics, she did end up pregnant. She attempted to stay in college on her athletic scholarship. Her coach agreed to let her remain as team manager and then after she was able to return, she would remain an active player. After continual threats, both physical and verbal, from the biological father, she ended up leaving college and returning home. She had a beautiful baby girl that has been the absolute sunshine of our lives. The father had no desire to be a parent even though my daughter begged for this relationship. Eventually it became obvious he had no interest in the child at all. From her birth until CPS involvement, 2 1/2 years had passed. The paternal grandparents had only seen the child on four different occasions even though there was an open door policy as far as visitations. The father had not seen her since her first birthday. Eventually my daughter did file and was granted a child support order back in May of 2013. At that time, the arrears were assessed at $9000.00 plus and currently (or as of October 1) are over $12,000. This was done with the full support of his parents who were hoping that he would 'grow up' and accept his responsibilities. He is currently in his fourth year of college working toward a 2-year degree and is maintaining a 1.66 grade point average and is on academic probation. He does not reside physically at his parents' home since this school is out of state. He is attending on his father's VA college program.

In February of this year, my daughter moved to Louisiana. She had met a young man who she fell in love with and several months later, she introduced him to her daughter. She did not want to be in a situation where she introduced people she was 'dating' into her daughter's life. This man knew that she had a daughter but understood until she was comfortable with the relationship and it was definitely 'heading somewhere', he would not meet her. He fell in love with her daughter immediately and became actively involved in her life.

There was an incident that caused my granddaughter injuries. She was with the boyfriend while my daughter was at work (both CPS and the police confirmed this). The description of the accident was never accepted or investigated as a possibility. My daughter took my granddaughter to the emergency room and they contacted CPS immediately due to a black eye and a cut on the upper cheek bone directly below the eye. It was determined at that time that she was obviously punched repeatedly in the face by the boyfriend - no broken bones, superficial bruising only according to the medical report. My daughter was arrested along with the boyfriend, again with full knowledge that at the time of the alleged incident, she was at work.

Initially, we chose to take the path of cooperation - not admitting to any wrong but working with CPS and their staff toward reunification. We have gone in a whole different direction since. CPS has placed the child with the father (according to the investigator - the fact he lives in a dorm in another state from his legal residence is of no consequence - homelessness is not a reason to keep a parent and child apart) and from there granted guardianship to the paternal grandparents who live over 12 hours away from my daughter. They did this despite concerns we raised about the father's drug abuse issues that we had evidence for and the grandfather's post traumatic stress disorder that comes out violently after vivid nightmares. Since they were not being investigated, these issues were not a concern. The court initially ordered that she be placed with me but CPS decided that was not a good suggestion and chose to move in the other direction. The custody hearing was held in a closed courtroom with only CPS, the court staff, the juvenile judge who was retiring and sitting on the bench for the last day and the father and his parents. My daughter nor myself were allowed since the judge stated it was a confidential matter. We were told initially that the father was going to ask for placement. It turns out that CPS supported and suggested full custody to be granted to the father. We have not been able to obtain the documentation to verify but were informed that due to the placement and the 'full custody' award, my daughter's case was closed with CPS.

Now the paternal grandparents who have physical custody of my granddaughter are refusing any contact and threatening legal action if we continue to make those requests. They were guided by the case worker not to have any contact with us since we could use information later in a case for custody against them. This same case worker is now continuing on with my daughter's case plan having since scheduled parenting classes and attempting to force my daughter through a substance abuse program. The program will not accept her because she does not qualify since she has no dependency issues. She is attending the parenting classes. There was actually a juvenile hearing this week concerning her case. The case worker actually lied about a psychological evaluation that was done stating that my daughter admitted to issues with abuse of aderal and marijuana, neither of which is located anywhere in that evaluation. The judge also made the case worker admit and confirm that she was working toward reunification of my granddaughter with my daughter. He scheduled an additional hearing on March 11, 2014 to allow my daughter time to complete her parenting classes and ordered the case worker to schedule a hair drug test to confirm any possible drug issues. If all is completed prior, we can request a sooner hearing.

I had filed a complaint with the state office in Baton Rouge and received a call from the area manager. She also informed me that the case was closed so since there was nothing immediate to be done, she would be reviewing the procedures that were followed. Since we had previously dealt with the supervisor and the operation's manager at this location, my complaint was taken to the next level. I informed her that there was a hearing in juvenile court this week and that my daughter still had a case plan that she had to follow and currently was taking parenting classes that were scheduled by the case worker four days after the placement of my granddaughter with the father. I also informed her that in open court, the judge verified with that same case worker who was present that she was working toward reunification. She is quite confused since there should be no further involvement between CPS and my daughter and is pulling records to determine what the actual status is right now. She confirmed prior to the phone call that this case was closed with the investigator, the operation's manager and the supervisor and they are apparently not aware of any continued hearings or case plans. There are so many other issues that have occurred during this whole process that are absolutely ridiculous. Injuries that are suggested by CPS but not supported by medical evidence, placement of my granddaughter with paternal members without any verification of concerns raised, closed custody hearings, visitation conflicts due to CPS delays, delays in case plan, and a total disregard for this child and what is in her best interest. I could go on and on with specific issues. My actual complaint letter forwarded to Baton Rouge was 17 pages long and did not contain everything.

We, at this point, are doing all we can to raise the funding to hire the attorney referenced above. The amount only covers the first 10 hours of work and we would hate to get in the middle of this case only to put everything on hold until we can obtain more funding. What makes this even more difficult is the fact that we have no idea where we sit legally, who has actual custody of my granddaughter - temporary, full, guardianship, how to schedule court ordered visitation, and how to hasten the process of placement back with the only family she has ever known.

[family_man]

Yes, it certainly does appear that much is screwed up with CPS. Their case cannot be "closed" until the judge awards permanent custody of the child to someone. From what you wrote, this hasn't happened yet. I would start by getting copies of all court documents and transcripts of all court proceedings. Your daughter is also entitled to discover all CPS documents, emails, and case plans that pertain to you case. (Is the lawyer representing you or your daughter?) A judge can expedite this discovery to one month. (Normally it takes maybe a year.) A good attorney could appeal the decision to place the child with the father or his family by filing a motion to reconsider, based on new facts.

The thing about CPS is they have a lot of turnaround. Cases get dropped as workers burn out and quit. This does not relieve the agency's legal responsibilities, however.

[HeartbrokenNana]

My daughter currently is getting help from a criminal attorney who is not very well versed on the CPS side of things. According to almost everyone in CPS, the case is closed because 'full' custody was given to the father but I see your point in that it possibly was not permanent custody. The attorney that we are attempting to hire for my daughter is the CPS specialists but extremely expensive. I have read many post on here about obtaining the records. Her current attorney does have assess to some but they were given to him by the DA in the juvenile system and told they were not to leave his office. So it sounds as if CPS has no clue. She has spoken to my daughter and told her that if permanent custody was granted, there is no ongoing case.

Our immediate concern now is that my daughter is pregnant with a due date of January 5th but it appears it will be sooner. There is a fear that CPS will try to step in immediately. We have been told that as long as the child is born 'healthy', they will not be involved. Of course, who knows what reason they will use to become involved. I do not trust anything they say whether verbally or in writing.

My daughter has already started the process of obtaining all the records. She has placed calls to CPS and of course, they have not been returned. Her attorney is going to assist with obtaining the court transcripts. We hope to find enough errors at this point that we can call for an emergency hearing. I would love to have hired the CPS attorney by that time because I sincerely feel that having someone with as much knowledge as she has, things will definitely be resolved faster.

[family_man]

I want to verify that there was no termination of your GD's parental rights. An involuntary TPR of one child automatically becomes grounds for a TPR of subsequent children.

If LA CPS placed a child under their custody with anyone residing in a different state, they are required to follow the Interstate Compact for the Placement of Children (ICPC). Does the father reside outside of Louisiana? If he does, it is an illegal placement, and the authorities in the father's state need to be notified. Basically, Louisiana cannot place children in another state without that state's permission and supervision.

You need to get a copy of the order granting full custody to the father. It is rather unusual to be denied all visitation rights. Also, does your daughter owe child support?

If the CPS case is truly closed, it is good news, since the conditions of custody, access and support can be modified in family court. A good family lawyer is what you need. You could argue that it is in the child's best interests to be with your daughter because of:

1) The father's lack of interest in the child;
2) The father's inability to provide stable housing and basic needs for the child;
3) The father's prior drug use;
4) The fact that the father's parents are the defacto custodians;
5) Etc.

[HeartbrokenNana]

The points your brought up are things that have been running through my mind since this took place. My daughter's parental rights have not been terminated prior to or since this placement. As a matter of fact, the case worker has finally scheduled the parenting classes and has attempted to include a substance abuse treatment program even though there is no evidence or concerns of drug usage since this whole process began. The afternoon following the hearing on November 19th that this full custody was apparently awarded, the case worker told my daughter a new case plan would need to be developed since the current plan including twice weekly visitations that are no longer available since the child was being sent with the paternal grandparents to Florida 12 hours away and therefore, impossible to enforce. We have been led to believe that this placement also included an order of guardianship with the paternal grandparents. These visitations were part of a previous court order. There was even a court hearing in juvenile court last week on December 17th at which time the judge verified in open court that the desire is still toward reunification and that the requirement for the substance abuse program can only be enforced if there is a failed hair follicle test which he requested to be scheduled by CPS. We, of course, will have a private hair follicle test completed this week.

I also live in Florida but in the panhandle approximately 8 hours away from the paternal grandparents but only 3 1/2 hours from the parish in Louisiana. After two orders from the first two court hearings, ICPC paperwork was actually put into process for placement with me until this matter was resolved. This paperwork was intentionally delayed and only was processed after complaints to the state office in Baton Rouge and even then sent incomplete to the state of Florida (they left out my name, address and contact information that was added by the ICPC contact in Baton Rouge when she became disgusted due to the constant delays). Prior to this court hearing, my initial home study had been completed and FBI background checks which Florida requires were in process. I inquired about this same process for the father and was told that he was not under any investigation and therefore, this was not required. It turns out that, according to DFCS, no one needed including any investigative measures to ensure a 'safe haven' was available. It is the paternal grandparents based upon guidance from the case worker, that are not willing to allow any visits or contact. We have been told by this same case worker that she has no authority to schedule any visits with her or her family since she is no longer in the custody of their care.

As far as the child support issue is concerned, my daughter has been told that support will be required and will start at an amount of $25.00 per week until the court makes a determination of what the actual should be. She has not received any paperwork at this time to begin payment or where payments should be sent. The father, as of October 1st when my granddaughter was originally taken into custody by CPS, was already over $12,000 in arrears on his current support order originally filed and approved in the state of Florida where my granddaughter was born and where my daughter maintained residency until February of 2013.

I have been contacted by an area manager after my complaint was received by the state office this past Friday. She initially gave me the same information after conferring with the operation's manager, the supervisor and the investigator. Apparently, none of these individuals were aware of the case plan continuance or the juvenile court hearing last week. She is suppose to call me back on Friday, December 27th, after she investigates further to verify what the actual status is on this case. I am planning on going to visit tomorrow and part of my intent to an attempt to get copies and transcripts of all the juvenile hearings and all case notes, orders, files, etc. that DFCS as it pertains to this case.

Just a note, the father did not even remain in Louisiana to pick up my granddaughter on November 19th. He left immediately following the hearing and the paternal grandparents actually picked her up at the DFCS office later in the day. Remember, this is his daughter that he is so concerned about and had not seen in 14 months. He did not spend Thanksgiving choosing to remain in Georgia with her but has seen her during the Christmas break. He has made contact with my daughter twice, once to threaten her that she would do everything her told her to and if she notified anyone that he called her, she would never see my granddaughter again. He told her that he is not suppose to contact her but did not mention who put that demand on him. He contacted her a second time after she texted the grandparents asking how Kinsley was done and after I texted requesting to arrange a possible visit the week between Christmas and New Years. He told her in that conversation that we were stressing his mother out and making his father angry. He also suggested that my granddaughter was exhibiting signs of sexual molestation and that the case worker has already informed them that there was a suspicion of that but were unable to support it with physical findings. There was actually never a suspicion but part of the abuse medical check that was completed at the beginning includes this testing and there were no signs. The case worker first mentioned this after the initial complaint concerning the ICPC paperwork and visitation issues and stated that there were signs on October 1st none of which appear in any medical reports or investigative reports. She stated there was bleeding from the vagina and this would have been an obvious concern that would have been notated if it actually existed. This is the same information she gave to the paternal grandparents.

[family_man]

If custody of the child had been awarded to the State of Louisiana before her placement in Florida, then the ICPC is in full force:

The Compact applies to four types of situations in which children may be sent to other states:
• Placement preliminary to an adoption.
• Placements into foster care, including foster homes, group homes, residential treatment facilities, and institutions.
• Placements with parents and relatives when a parent or relative is not making the placement.
• Placements of adjudicated delinquents in institutions in other states.

However, if the State of Louisiana never had legal custody of the child, there could have been a modification made to the child's custody, transferring custody from the mother to the father, that was not covered under the ICPC. Is that what happened? I also found this (Regulation 2):

When the court places the child with a parent from whom the child was not removed, and the court has no evidence that the parent is unfit, does not seek any evidence from the receiving state that the parent is either fit or unfit, and the court relinquishes jurisdiction over the child immediately upon placement with the parent, the receiving state shall have no responsibility for supervision or monitoring for the court having made the placement.

You should read and understand the ICPC rules and regulations here:
http://dcf.vermont.gov/sites/dcf/files/pdf/fsd/icpc/ICPCGuide.pdf
http://www.aphsa.org/content/AAICPC/en/ICPCRegulations.html

If the Louisiana CPS case were truly closed, they would not be ordering your daughter around anymore. Louisiana CPS's actions do not match their words.

If Regulation (2) is in effect, it means that Louisiana has relinquished jurisdiction over the case, and can no longer influence whether your daughter can be reunified or not. Even in this case, Florida would still have had to approved the initial placement in their state, via a home study, etc.

If Louisiana did not relinquish jurisdiction to Florida, then Florida is obligated to monitor the the family where your GD is placed. Is this happening? I can see no difference in how you should be treated, compared to the father's parents, with regard to the ICPC. I still think this might be an illegal placement, in which case Florida could order the child to be returned to Louisiana.

In "normal" custody modification suits, which don't involve CPS, the custodial parent is required to allow the non-custodial parent a certain amount of visitation, as spelled out in the final court order. The custodial parent does not have the option to deny visitation that the order requires him/her to provide. Non-compliance with visitation, or any other aspect of the order, is grounds to re-modify the agreement in favor of the non-custodial parent.

This is a very confusing case, and some of the information you have provided seems to be contradictory. I am still not sure what the real situation is.

[whosechildrenarethey]

Your case has taken some twists and turns but I would like to suggest that your daughter needs to obtain all copies of the courts orders (Louisiana)... It is the responsibility of her case worker to provide her with them. If your daughter has made this request to her case worker and despite having asked, has not been furnished with a copy of all the courts orders, the original petition etc.. then it may be she needs to ask again, by email with a CC to the case workers supervisor, the guardian ad litem if there is one ETC... or make a trip to the clerk of court for copies. You may be able to request copies but are only entitled to receive them if you are a party to the case which you very well may be since originally you had asked for and been cleared to have your Grand child placed into your care pending the outcome of your daughters case. If your daughter is being asked to work a Case Plan then obviously the case is not closed. Until your daughter can obtain all pertinent court orders you simply won't know for sure what's going on. It would be my guess that the court has given the child's father temporary custody pending the out come of the case. If your daughter has signed a case plan she is likely locked into the CPS process since doing so is the same thing as having admitted to CPS allegations without their ever having to prove the charges or your daughter ever having her day in court for a judicial determination of same. Please note that it still vital that your daughter get her side on the record to protect any chance of appeal should the court decide against reunification. CPS is pushing a lot of paper entering it into the court records and after your daughter receives her copy of the petition she will want to write a Sworn Declaration of facts and or an Objection and Corrections to the petition for her attorneys review for being placed on the record. Below you will find a link that will take you to the policy and procedures for Louisiana CPS. It was a bugger to find because they titled it DSS (Department of Social Services). Also I have sent you a link to Louisiana's definition of abuse etc... Lastly I have included a link for the Child Code of Louisiana. Hope this helps and best of luck in your struggles. If you have any FL. related questions I may be able to point you in the right direction because it is my home State.

https://stellent.dss.state.la.us/LADSS/ ... pterID=116

http://www.meritcd.com/childabuse/abuse ... p?state=LA

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?folder=71

[HeartbrokenNana]

We are attempting to get copies of the court records but since we cannot get anyone to call us back, it has been difficult. I am now dealing with a contact at the state office and the regional area manager over the CPS branch due to a complaint I filed. It seems that they are still saying the case is closed but in the juvenile hearing held two weeks ago, the judge confirmed that they were still working toward reunification and the case worker scheduled parenting classes after this supposed legal placement in Florida. My daughter did sign the initial case plan in order to get her visitation. In that same hearing, the judge brought up the question concerning whether or not they had confirmed if my daughter was at work when the initial injuries occurred and the case worker told him that she was not sure if they had verified that information. So an investigation was done and they never verified the information that the police department already had?

This office has no clue what they are doing. The manager, supervisor and investigator are all assuming her case is closed and they are no longer involved. The juvenile court is still holding hearings and the case worker is attending and scheduling appointments. Now, the area manager who is suppose to find out what is happening is not returning calls and the state office is making excuses due to the holiday season. We set a specific phone appointment for 12/27 giving the area manager one week to verify the status and have yet to get that call. I have notified the director of field operations after leaving several voice mails who also was going to contact her and still, no call. We have made a request for the documentation but the only paperwork that CPS has given either of us is the case plan on November 1st. The attorney has some paperwork that was given to him by the juvenile DA in one hearing but that is the only thing he has received. He is also requesting transcripts from the juvenile court. Again, he is a criminal attorney and is doing the best he can with this case. He has also filed a complaint via the juvenile system concerning the way this case has been handled and is requesting a judicial review.

[HeartbrokenNana]

We have requested and are waiting on a response from the case worker of all court orders in this case. They were never offered and as I stated previously, the only paperwork my daughter has been given was the initial copy of the case plan on November 1st. My daughter has also requested a copy of all paperwork - notes, correspondence, investigation, etc in her file. Based upon the current status of this case (the case plan and juvenile court hearings pushing for reunification), I can only assume at this point that Louisiana has not relinquished jurisdiction over the case and Florida has not been notified nor are they actively involved in any monitoring of the current placement. The ICPC paperwork was finally forwarded for placement with me just one week prior to the hearing when apparent custody was given to the father and guardianship awarded to the paternal grandparents in the juvenile court. Until we receive copies of the above paperwork, we cannot be sure of anything that occurred but if the juvenile court is still continuing the case, then the placement could not have been a permanent custody award.

To answer the question about initial custody, my daughter and the biological father were never married. My granddaughter was born in Florida and due to inquiries we made at that time, the father has no rights since they were not married and has to petition the court in order to establish paternity. My daughter never denied he was the father and never blocked any relationship that he desired to have with his daughter. She did file for child support after a year and a half which is totally separate and does not establish his parental rights but in order to avoid financial responsibility, he would have had to verify via a paternity test that he was not the biological father. He never had a desire to have a relationship or to attempt to establish parental rights via the court system and made every effort to avoid collection of child support including working minimal reported hours while maintaining a full time job unreported. As a matter of fact, his arrears have grown monthly at a rate of over $300.00 since the support order went into effect and as of the first of October, he was over $12,000 in arrears.

My daughter relocated to Louisiana in February of 2013 so at the time this started, she had resided in Louisiana for a little over 6 months. It is our understanding that 6 months is the magic time frame for determining what state would actually oversee custodial matters so based upon that, if the biological father had chosen to have his parental rights removed voluntarily or to exercise any rights, he would have had to do so in Louisiana, not Florida.

After reading the guidelines and suggestions, I honestly feel at this time that this placement was actually illegal. I know the court can make certain orders but it is the responsibility of CPS to ensure that the proper paperwork is completed. After going through what we have been through attempting to find out the status of her case, it is highly plausible that they have no clue what they are doing. We have been told by the state manager of field ops and the area operation's manager that her case is closed. They have confirmed this with the local office manager, supervisor and investigator. I told them that my daughter still has a case plan and appeared in juvenile court with the case worker present on December 17th and they told me that was not possible since the case is closed. I told them they needed to ask the case worker where she was on that day and why she appeared in court and if they find out, could they please notify me. I told them what was discussed, what questions were asked and what the judge's responses were including a plan for reunification. We knew previously we were not getting straight answers from them and assumed it was due to dishonesty and a desire to misdirect us. We now realize that it is also due to the fact that they have no clue what the processes are and how to follow procedures. They cannot even communicate within their own department so I don't know why we should expect anything less from them with us.

[whosechildrenarethey]

This is a link for Louisiana's Interstate Compact for the Placement of Children (ICPC). http://icpcstatepages.org/louisiana/info/ At the very least it gives you contact numbers along with information. Hopefully on your copy of your daughters Case Plan you have the case number. I am still missing to much information to make sense of what all has gone on with this case. I was barely hanging in there with you when all of a sudden there is a custody hearing that your daughter wasn't allowed to attend wherein the Judge gave custody to the father? I think perhaps we are calling that hearing a custody hearing when it was in all actuality a hearing to determine your grand child's placement with the father pending outcome of your daughters CPS case. Certain steps happen in most CPS cases no matter the State. Since CPS removed your daughters child there had to have been a shelter hearing usually within 72 hours of that happening. CPS presents the Petition to the court containing their allegations against your daughter and your daughter is supposed to be given an opportunity to be heard and to present evidence. This rarely happens because most parents are caught off guard like deer in headlights. At the end of the shelter hearing, since obviously the court remanded your grand child into the protective custody of the State (CPS) pending a full investigation the judge would have then issued his written findings in the matter so right there are two documents your daughter should have. A copy of the original Petition and a copy of the Court's orders relating to it's findings. The next step is normally what's called an arraignment - (not criminal) where in your daughter makes her plea of admit, deny or no contest which is the same thing as admit. Did she have her arraignment? She would have had paperwork generated that she should have a copy of at that time as well. Sometime between leaving the Shelter hearing and the Arraignment there is usually a huge push from CPS to get your daughter to sign a case plan without benefit of having her day in court. At our case plan meeting like you, we only got a copy of the Case plan and finally their original Petition presented to the court at the shelter hearing. Many issues came up at the case plan conference wherein we began asking for copies of all court orders. It took a while but we launched an email campaign of constant requests for the court orders with CC to SW supervisor and our attorney and they did hand deliver copies of all the courts orders within a few weeks. Somewhere in between there your saying CPS and the court had a closed door hearing regarding temp custody of your grandchild and awarded same to the Father? This seems outrageous to me but believe me I don't know everything by a long shot. Both you and your daughter should have been allowed to at least enter the court room and present your concerns and issues regarding that placement and the Judge should also have been made aware that you as Grandma had already started the process of being approved as a relative placement. If CPS quietly decided to rule you out as a placement I am sure they probably didn't advise the Judge you had even attempted placement in your home but we will never know because you and your daughter were barred from any input and made to wait outside the courtroom. I provided the above referenced link because since your grand child was already in the care and control of the State they would have had to have placed her in Florida with her father under ICPC and as you will see when you get a chance to visit and investigate on that site they were to have done certain things. Background checks etc... prior to that placement. Regardless of where you grand child was placed either with you or with the father she is still in the protective custody of the state of Louisiana pending adjudication or disposition of your daughters case. Is your daughter going to trial or has that been quashed since she has already signed the case plan? IDK why your being told there is no case when your daughter was presented and signed a Case Plan. Since the Court was involved CPS can't just close the case without first obtaining the courts review and pronouncement having dismissed the case...

http://www.aphsa.org/content/AAICPC/en/ICPCArticle.html

http://adoptionchildwelfarelaw.org/faq_detail.php?id=89

[whosechildrenarethey]

Perhaps a better question for me to have asked would have been when CPS removed your grand child from her mother where was she placed? With you or with a Foster family. When was she placed with her paternal grandparents and has she been there longer than 30 days? Was the father and his parents at the placement hearing you and your daughter were not allowed to participate in?

[whosechildrenarethey]

CPS can make recommendations to the court related to your daughter's visitation with her child while in CPS protective custody. but the Court has the final word on that issue and the decisions related to your daughters visitation can be found in the courts orders. Even if the judge decided it wasn't in the best interest of the child for visitation to occur at this time it would still be written in the court orders including supervised visitation. Once you have the court orders in your hands you can look at what the Judge ordered about visitation and then the paternal grandparents can explain to the court at the next hearing why they aren't obeying the courts orders. This requires your daughter to speak up when she is in court to make the judge aware that the grand parents are not complying with his orders and allowing visitation. If she doesn't who will and how would the judge even know his orders aren't being adhered to? I wouldn't rely solely on CPS to get copies of all the courts orders and the original Petition to you in a timely manner especially since their right hand doesn't seem to know what their left hand is doing. Since your daughter is definitely a party to the case she may very well be able to get a copy of everything she needs from the clerk of court although there may be a fee involved. It's sure worth placing a call to your counties clerk of court to find out.

I also wouldn't wait around for CPS to verify that your daughter was at work when her child was injured. You stated the Police already investigated the issues surrounding this case so there must be a report. I would contact the police department to find out how you obtain copies of their reports and at the same time your daughter will probably want to contact her employer to obtain a written verification of her presence at work when this incident happened on their company letter head including the employers contact information. Next time the judge asks for verification CPS can stand their looking stupid if they want to but your daughter can provide the court a copy of the police reports and her employers verification of her presence on the job on the date and time in question. Make sure she has enough copies for everyone, the court, the CPS Attorney, her Attorney, Guardian Ad Litem etc...

IDK where this case is going since your daughter had signed a Case Plan but you can rest assured CPS is pushing a lot of paper onto the case record starting with their Petition at the Shelter Hearing. Every document they enter with the court is placed on the record of your daughter's case. Allegations and facts placed on the record by CPS that are not denied, disputed, refuted, or rebutted by your daughter or her attorney will remain on the case records as facts confirmed. This is why it's rough when parent's sign a case plan because it's perceived by the court as an admission of guilt. Your daughter must find a way to find her voice and provide any proofs of her innocence and make the record by stating these things out loud when she is in court. The Judge may not be aware of all the dysfunction surrounding your daughters case because CPS sure isn't going to shoot themselves in the foot by telling on themselves which means she has got to find a way to respectfully make the record each chance she gets when she is in court.

[whosechildrenarethey]

Ok, I spent some time researching all this and most of what you need to know is right in the Louisiana Children's Code Link. Here it is again:

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?folder=71

When you referred to a custody hearing, because it involved placement of the child with his father/then his fathers parent's, I assumed we were talking about a Father and child custody issue which was my first mistake. You know what they say about ASSUMING? After pouring over the Children's Code I do believe you were referring to the continued custody of the child with the state wherein the court gave his father/grandparents temporary physical custody.


I

[monkette31]

What state did your daughter pay taxes in year 2013? I wonder if she is considered a legal resident of Florida and not Louisiana. Also, what is the status of her criminal charges?

Go here: https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/state/ click "Louisiana" and under Child Welfare:
Click "Court Hearings for the Permanent Placement of Children" and "Grounds for Involuntary Termination of Parental Rights", then click GO.

Also, I believe DCFS will detain the new baby. If she leaves jurisdiction to have the new child, it's possible they will track her if she is on medi-cal.

Criminal convictions of child abuse can result in the immediate termination of parental rights, including future children in that state. (for the most part).

Child welfare dot gov site is an excellent tool.

[family_man]

I call your attention to the following document I found, which more clearly spells out the definition, consequences and remedies of illegal interstate placements of children. It is a Florida judges' guide to this complex issue. See page 85 onward, about illegal practices. It might be worthwhile to consult with a Florida attorney, to determine whether legal action on your side of the border would help.

http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/programs/ICPC/docs/judgemanual.pdf

Regarding the new baby being taken into custody, I can see no legal justification for such action, since your daughter has not been convicted of anything, nor have her parental rights been terminated. However, given the clueless nature of the department so far, I wouldn't put anything past them. I'm not advising her to leave state, however, because her legal battle is in Louisiana, and now would not be a good time to go into hiding. In the unlikely event that her baby is taken, it will be one more travesty her attorney will have to overcome.

[HeartbrokenNana]

We have gotten a little further with this case. It turns out that the placement with the father was court ordered and therefore, CPS does not feel that any paperwork is needed. They stated they were just following court order. They have confirmed that the current judge hearing the case stated that he wanted to move toward reunification but until that is ordered, they are monitoring the completion of the case plan to avoid removal of parental rights. She still has not been charged criminally and the current judge (the previous judge retired) seems to be questioning some of the CPS reports.

We finally got a response to our complaint to the state office. They are preparing a packet for my daughter to include her records and court orders after verifying with legal what they can provide. My daughter was able to raise issues and discrepancies with many items contained in the report. The case plan was given to her and it was confirmed on the conference call that she was told to sign if she wanted to continue visitations and reunification plans. The area manager is addressing with the investigator and the case worker certain requirements that they did not meet that were included in previous court orders. So there has been some admittance on their part of failure. They have also assigned my daughter's case to the supervisor and removed it from the case worker after realizing there had been no efforts on the part of the case worker to keep my daughter informed and the paperwork that should have been forwarded all along was never forwarded. They have admitted to some deceptive and dishonest practices. We brought up several statements made to the paternal grandparents that were not true concerning injuries and CPS suspicions. The area manager contacted them and verified those statements which were made to them by the case worker. These included injuries that did not exist and were not supported by any medical evidence along with a supposed issue of sexual abuse that was included in the initial abuse check not because it was suspected but because it is normal for them to complete a full exam. There was never a suspicion of sexual abuse and there was no medical evidence that it might have occurred. The area manager also confirmed with the paternal grandparents that this same case worker has remained in constant contact with them sometimes speaking two to three times a week. She also confirmed that my daughter has made several attempts to contact this case worker and there have been no return calls. She has admitted that there does appear to be some signs of retaliation. The case worker told her that my daughter was a very angry young lady. She informed me that everyone else that has dealt with my daughter including herself have found her to be very professional yet very upset which should be expected. She did state that anger was not a reason for the case worker to avoid contact and that along with the missed guidelines will be addressed along with the court orders that the investigator failed to complete because he felt they were not necessary.

We are still working toward obtaining the attorney that we know will help resolve this case. There is an issue of a retainer and we have spent so much up to this point that we have pretty well depleted all savings. My daughter has an attorney that was hired and paid to represent her on the criminal issues that are unfounded and still pending acceptance by the DA. He has attempted to aid with this case also but is not well versed or experienced in the juvenile and CPS system. We are constantly requesting his assistance in getting court transcripts and files from CPS but, of course, these taken a back seat to his criminal case load.

[family_man]

She did state that anger was not a reason for the case worker to avoid contact and that along with the missed guidelines will be addressed along with the court orders that the investigator failed to complete because he felt they were not necessary.

This is the kind of thing that would put CPS in contempt of court.

[HeartbrokenNana]

On the criminal side - my daughter still has no pending charges. In the state of Louisiana, if you have been arrested and are released on bond, the DA has 180 days to accept, deny or amend the charges. The arresting officers actually have all he evidence to support the fact that she was not home at the time the injuries occurred. I had a discussion with them on the date this all started (October 1) and inquired why she was arrested when they had full knowledge she was not home. The response they gave was to say that upon initial questioning, she was deceptive with some of her responses. When I asked how that made her guilty of causing any injuries, they replied that she should not have been dishonest with the initial questions. She did correct her statements within a few minutes and provided not only her work record but they also took her phone into evidence with the text from the boyfriend informing her of the 'accident' and injuries but that there was no need for her to leave work.

On the juvenile side, CPS stated that they had not confirmed if my daughter was at work when the injuries occurred in court. My discussion with investigator that evening upon my arrival from Florida disputes that claim. I inquired if he could answer the question concerning my daughter's arrest and he stated that he had no idea why she was arrested since they had confirmed she was at work. He also told my son and I that if it had not been for this arrest, my granddaughter would not have been removed but they would have insured that the 'boyfriend' was either arrested or unable to contact either of them.

The original hearing was held two days after the initial involvement. My daughter had a court appointed attorney who spent more time 'flirting' with my son than actually speaking to my daughter or addressing the court. CPS notified the court that the child was taken into custody and described the injuries and the court
appointed attorney's response was that my daughter understand the concerns and was ready to cooperate fully. She did mention that my daughter was at work at the time the injuries occurred and the investigator confirmed but stated that they were questioning a possible delay in seeking medical attention. My daughter has never officially been charged in juvenile court. CPS was reprimanded in a hearing at the end of October because there had been no case plan or scheduling of appointments that CPS was to set. Additional visitation was ordered and again, judge ordered that they abide by the earlier request by the court to seek placement through ICPC paperwork with me in Florida.

The hearing when this placement was made with the father was in the courtroom of another judge (the judge handling the previous hearings was a visiting judge). The judge in that court was on the bench her last day prior to retirement and obviously was not real interested in taking too much time on cases. My daughter's portion of the hearing was quick lasting only about minutes. The attorney brought up issues with the case worker and the judge suggested that she try to be more cooperative. The case worker snickered in the courtroom after this statement. Afterward, we were told to leave and the father and grandparents were brought in. According to the investigator, it was his decision when asked by the judge as to what needed to be done. When it was pointed out to the area operation's manager that if Louisiana still had jurisdiction, ICPC paperwork should have been done, I was told that if the judge ordered placement with the father, then that overrules any other requirements. I replied that I did not believe that a judge in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana had the authority to override federal law and mandates but that I would check on that.

We have gotten a little closer to actually finding out what is going on but still working on securing the retainer for an attorney we have located who I know will help this resolved so much faster than we can do on our own. My daughter's criminal attorney has been out of contact and has not responded to our requests for assistance with getting transcripts. I am unsure what that means but possibly feel that he has decided to drop the assistance he offered with the juvenile system. Everything you guys have sent has really opened our eyes and has helped to provide so much hope. In the conference we had with the area ops manager, it made us feel empowered and I really believe the knowledge you provided made her more reactive to our concerns. I wish I had this information when this whole thing started and have suggested this site to everyone hoping they will read some of the guidelines before they find themselves in the same situation.

[family_man]

The ICPC is not really a federal law, but rather a uniform statute that all 50 states have passed into law. You will find the exact same wording has been enacted by all the states. It is not supposed to be bypassed by some juvenile court judge, who just wants to clear his case load so he can retire.

I'm glad we have been able to provide useful information to you, and I'm sorry your family had to go through all this unnecessary trauma.

[HeartbrokenNana]

I really do appreciate all of the responses. They have been extremely helpful. There have been new developments since I last posted. We actually had begun to make some headway and were having our issues addressed then all of a sudden, CPS decided after checking with the legal department that they were no longer suppose to be involved in this case. My daughter's criminal attorney that volunteered to assist her with the juvenile also is now unresponsive to our requests in helping to obtain copies of court transcripts and assistance in obtaining the CPS case file which we have been told, they will not provide without a court order from the juvenile judge even after admitting there were discrepancies in the portions that we had seen previously that my daughter's attorney received from the DA in juvenile court. I brought up the ICPC issue with concerns about the possible legality of the placement with the father and the fact that Louisiana has not given up jurisdiction. This past Monday, my daughter received a call from the supervisor with CPS notifying her that they no longer were involved and should not have been involved since November 19th when the father came and got his daughter which he had full rights to do so. That is a new spin. It appears that their guidance from the legal department is that the father had the right to simply come pick his daughter up. She told her that CPS would no longer be involved and now family services would be assigning a case worker to her for follow up and that in order to protect her parental rights, she would need to continue her parenting classes. According to the supervisor, she should be receiving something in the mail to let her know who this new case worker will be and they are no longer involved. I sincerely believe that when they spoke to the legal department, they were notified that they had mishandled this case and that they need to simply wash their hands. They are suppose to mail her a copy of her psychological results. So the only paperwork that CPS will voluntarily provide her is a copy of her case plan (the original plan) which she received 31 following the removal and now her psychological testing that was done. They are not required to provide any copies of court orders, investigative reports, etc and no longer will provide any support to her as if they ever did. She has been told at this point that any questions she has she will need to address with this new case worker once she receives notification of who that might be.

She did mention that one of her major concerns was to obtain information on what steps needed to be taken to regain custody. This same supervisor told her that she would have to seek custody via the court system and she was unsure whether she would need to file for that custody in Florida or Louisiana. She stated that she needed to seek that information from the court system itself. So now we are back to the original plan of obtaining funding to hire the family attorney that we located about a month ago. It seems that all doors have been shut and the only way we can move forward is through the court system. At this point, we are not even able to obtain information. I have inquired about how we can file for the paperwork we are requesting on our own and have been told that we need to contact an attorney to make those requests for us since juvenile cases are closed even though it is the mother seeking information. The paternal grandparents are not being responsive to any requests for visits and are threatening to cut off the minimal amount of contact there currently exists which is a picture about once every 2 weeks. They stated they have spoken to an attorney who has told them that they set the rules and that they do not have to provide any information to anyone, including my daughter. The child's father is currently still not involved with his daughter but appears now to have plenty of time and money to travel according to his twitter posts. No mention of his child or pictures.

We will never give up no matter how long it takes. There have been thoughts of other options but that could create additional hardships for my granddaughter that we are not willing to cause her. I know that one day she will be back with us and she will know that we never stopped loving her and fighting for her despite the roadblocks that were put in our way. I now walk through stores and other public places and hear and see parents speaking to their children horribly and wonder why this has occurred to us. She has been the center of our lives since she arrived. When I see these parents exhibiting signs that they are disgusted and bothered by their children, it makes my heart ache. I have also begun to realize that many of these children taken by CPS are taken because the parents cared so much that they sought medical attention and assistance for everything which in turn marked them in the system. The true abused children are the ones that are kept hidden away that no one ever sees.

[family_man]

You may not have an immediate right the CPS case file. However, your daughter certainly has a right to the court records. She should be able to obtain these from the Louisiana juvenile court system. This has gone on long enough. You really need to find out what if anything the court has ordered. Changes in custody can only be made by court order. A CPS supervisor cannot simply say, "Case is closed" when CPS still has legal custody and no judge has changed that status.

As I said, if a judge first assigned legal custody to CPS and then CPS placed the child out of state without going through the ICPC, that is an illegal placement. However, if CPS never was awarded legal custody in the first place (as they now seem to claim), then whatever custody and access privileges were in effect before the CPS intervention would still be in place. The father might have had permission to pick the child up, but if your daughter had been the child's primary caregiver, the father certainly would not have had the right to run off with her and deny access to her mother. A list of all orders the court has issued would be able to tell you which scenario is closer to the real truth.

Then there was that mysterious transfer of custody from mother to father. Did it really happen? Not if CPS had custody at the time. However, if CPS never really had custody then I don't understand how a hearing could have been held to change custody when your daughter wasn't even notified. She would have been the respondent in the case!!! I would think all you have to do is to go the the clerk at the courthouse and ask for all court records that pertain to the case. Maybe it can be done via mail, with certified identification.

You should also go your local Florida family court and see whether any orders concerning your family were issued there. You should know that custody orders do NOT automatically transfer across state lines. If an order was issued in Louisiana, the current custodians must register that order with the Florida court, or else it is unenforceable there. Your Florida court would therefore have a record of it, and your daughter should be able to see it.

[HeartbrokenNana]

My daughter will be going to Juvenile Court today in Louisiana in an attempt to obtain the orders and transcripts from all hearings that have been held in this case. We can hopefully receive some information from those records and from the hearing held where supposedly custody was awarded to the father and then guardianship granted to the grandparents. The paternal grandmother made contact with my daughter a few nights ago because her husband 'gave her permission'. She stated that they had an attorney in the state of Florida who advised them that the child had to be in the state of Florida for 6 months before my daughter could attempt to regain custody. I am assuming they believe that we are idiots. The six month rule applies in determining actual residency. They have also told her that they will be filing their taxes and that they are claiming my granddaughter for the last month and a half of 2013 on their taxes and that the father is claiming her due to the child support payments he has made for the remainder of the year. As I stated previously, the father is in arrears to the tune of over $12,000 and his total payments in 2013 barely reached $1000. We are not really concerned about either of these issues since my daughters taxes are already filed and have been accepted by the IRS along with the fact that Child Support Enforcement in Florida already has an order for the father's tax return to be forwarded to my daughter.

Secondly, due to investigation on our part way before any of this occurred, the custody of my granddaughter actually was governed by the state of Florida since she was born here. In the state of Florida, when a child is born to an unmarried couple, the state for custodial purposes, only sees the mother. The father has to actually petition family court for paternal rights which also requires a paternity test. Child Support Enforcement and this court are two different arms. In the state of Florida, until the father goes to court and requests his rights, he has none as far as custody and visitation are concerned. I have also reached out to the Familes First contact that had begun my approval since there was originally ICPC in process for placement with me and am waiting to verify if the state of Florida has any knowledge of my daughter's placement here.

She also told my daughter that she knows she will be given custody of my granddaughter eventually but they will continue to fight for return and will interfere unless my daughter moves to the area they live in and allows them daily participation in raising my granddaughter. She stated that they will help her and also informed her that anyone she dates that they determine to be unacceptable will be cause for a custody battle. Just as the grandfather in this situation attempts to control his wife and son, he now is attempting to control my daughter's life. We are only beginning to understand why the father is the way he is. The aggressive tendencies he showed toward my daughter during their relationship were during times when she was not following his directions and abiding by his rules.

Hopefully, once the records are obtained, we will be able to address the custody portion of this case more clearly. CPS is an absolute joke and has no idea what their job is or how to do it. They seem to have the opinion that they can do whatever they want and no one has the ability to stop them. We have gotten one issue resolved, however. Due to confidentiality and privacy laws that have been enforced on me and the paternal grandmother's knowledge of my daughter's status throughout, we were able to enforce a gag order on anyone providing the information since it had to have been coming directly from their department. That is apparently what caused that phone call since they were no longer being fed info from the case worker.

[treytrey1]

Yes you are right on the 6 month thing. She will have to be in Florida for 6 months in order for it to be considered her legal residence. Once that happens your daughter will need
to file for a court order in Florida. As far as him claiming her. She has to live with him at least 6 or more months in the tax year to be claimed. If she wasn't with you then the paternal grandparents would claim. I assume they have had her more than 6 months. If not then I'm sorry I can't remember when she was pulled from your daughter, but if your
daughter had her more than 6 months in 2013 she has the legal right to claim her. I know this won't bring her back any faster, but it just kills me that they would even give
custody to a father who didn't want her and then he thinks he's going to make money on her. I pray for your daughter to bring her home soon.

[HeartbrokenNana]

She has not been in Florida for 6 months yet. She was placed possibly illegally through a guardianship order with the paternal grandparents on November 19, 2013 and residency requirements have not even begun since Louisiana still has jurisdiction in the juvenile system. The father is currently way beyond $12,000 in arrears in child support. The child support order is still in place and I have been told that since she is not living with him, he would still be required to make payments with any due after November 19 going to his parents. The child support order is in Florida where my granddaughter was born and the original custody was with my daughter. The father had never attempted to visit or to request visitation from the court in Florida. In 2013, he paid less than $1000.00 toward her support and that is why the arrears continued to climb (child support order was $546.00 per month plus $25.00 toward arrears). His average monthly payment that began in the summer of 2013 were approximately $160.00 on average. My daughter already has been awarded a judgement through child support enforcement for all state and federal tax returns.

We are now finding out that the paternal grandmother is in contact with the DA involved in the case and is claiming harrassment on the part of our family. Funny thing is, we have all gone through our phone records. As far as the family is concerned, there have been a total of 7 texts and 3 calls in an effort to schedule some form of visitation in the last two and a half months. My daughter has averaged about one text per week asking how my granddaughter is doing and most have not been returned but occasionally they forward her a picture. As far as calls on her phone, the paternal grandmother has called her 4 times and the father has called 4 times. She has no outgoing calls to any of their contact numbers. She has also provided false information stating that my daughter has actually moved out of state when indeed she has not. While she does come to visit us on occasion, that in no way suggest that she has moved. Her attorney has been forwarded copies of all phone records and will be contacting the DA to provide them to her along with receipts, appointments that she has kept, etc. in Louisiana. The paternal grandmother has no information on this case and therefore, I question why she has contact with the DA and how she received the contact information. She told my daughter during a call that she made to her that her husband 'gave her permission to make', that she loved my granddaughter more than her son or husband. I am growing more concerned daily about my granddaughter's environment and no one seems to care. There were also other statements made that increase this concern.

At this time, no one seems to care or be concern for the truth. It is almost as if as long as they are no longer responsible for overseeing the daily care, nothing else matters. My daughter has given birth to her second child and no one seems to be concerned for her ability to care and provide for this child. If she were a threat or unfit, why would they simply ignore the fact that she is currently responsible for caring for another child. There is an ever increasing concern that as my granddaughter ages and remains in their household, they will have the ability to manipulate her thought processes. She is only 2 1/2 years old and at that age, children are very impressionable and not totally able to separate the truth from fantasy.

[family_man]

The usual way to enforce child support orders is through garnishment of wages. However, if the father has no wages, this method won't work. Others things the collection agency can do is ding his credit rating, and prevent him from obtaining a passport.

Have you had any luck in obtaining court records, either in Louisiana or Florida? Remember, if there are no court orders registered in Florida, then as you pointed out, neither the father nor his relatives have a legal authority to interfere in the care of your granddaughter. Maybe now is the time to retain that Florida family attorney, to see what can be done to reassert your daughter's rights. You are correct that the longer this crazy situation persists, the harder it will be to reverse.

Is Louisiana CPS still making your daughter jump through hoops, or are they now leaving her alone?