Granddaughter Taken by CPS becuase of a water bill

[Nan4grandkids]

Hi Iam new to this web site, but here goes. My granddaughter has been kiddnapped by the state of KY. the reason is so unbelieveable to. My grandaughter lived with her Mom in KY and her dad who has joint custade lives in Indiana.
It all started when some one called CPS and made a report that my grandaughters mom was doing drugs. Then the CPS worker come out to her house They told the Mom that someone had reported that she was doing drugs. They did a house inspection and found no drugs. They said that the house was a little messy but not bad.But what they did find out was that her water was turned off, and she had no running water in the house. Her water showed up as being shut off that day being out of town for the weekend to my house in Ind. she didnt even know it was off intill that day. she owed $300 on water bill and couldnt pay it right then.
CPS told her she had to take a drug test that day at her own cost $150 and it was allready 4pm. She told them if she had the money she would have payed the water bill.
So CPS worker said she could have 24hrs to get it done. But till the water was back on my grandduaghter could not live there.
That's when she called me up in Indiana and ask me if I leand her money and if I could come and get my Granddaughter and have her stay with me. That's when put the phone on speaker phone and I her tell CPS worker who I was the grandmother and gave CPS worker info on granddauther's father. like phone number address ect.. and when CPS worker heard we lived out of state she said she could only stay with someone in the same county. I told her to call my son the dad and tell him about all his and CPS wouldnt let her call him them.The mother called the other grandmom and ask her if she could stay at her house. CPS went over there and aproved it to stay at her other grandmom's house till water was put back on. That grandmothers health was not good so the mother was allowed to come over and visit and help. That worked for two weeks and mother and grandmother got in a fight and police were called and my granddaughter was taken by CPS.
MY son the legal father was never notifed by anyone when he did find out the mother called and told me. When father called CPS they never turned his calles.
On thanks giving day I was looking at my FBook and the Mother posted she needed a ride to go to court for her daughter. I called her and she said she had a court date for family court about daughter. I told her to call my son the father and me when she got done. when she got done she said at court the father was supposed to be there to and that they both had a court appointed lawyer. I ask her how his could be becuase he was not even told about court or know that he had a court appointed lawyer and how was this lawyer and why was he speaking in court for my son when he never even meet or talked to him. My son called all other in KY to CPS court house child welfare and got no anweres. When we found out about next court date from mother my son drive 198 miles down th KY and just showed up at court. Walked up to his court appointed lawyer and told him how he was and ask him why he was never called or notifed at all when his name address and phone number was on ever thing. no anwsere.
well sorry this is getting to long, I will have to tell other facts later.
This was 8 mounthes ago and my grandduaghter is still in foster care in KY and my son is still not getting anywere no info from CPS or court appointed lawyer or court.
and they are changing him with child neglect saying he know about her living condictions and water problems. really like he knew they were going to turn off water that day. have a nother court date sometime in Sept. and dont ever know the date or time yet. he has missed 3 court dates because they wont ever tell him .
Were are my sons rights in all of this. and what about my poor granddaughter she was 5 when she was taken and will be 6 in Sept. were is her rights, all of this because someone called in a false report and some one was to poor to pay a water bill .

[LindaJM]

I'm so so sorry your granddaughter has been taken by CPS. It would help if your son could move to that county and get a job there while he's trying to get his daughter safely out of their clutches. Is that a possibility?

What they're doing is just crazy. If it were me I'd be going to the media, to the county commissioners' meetings, to my state legislator, etc..

The caseworkers could have used emergency fund money to pay that water bill - instead they've spent tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars on this case over nothing but poverty.

Please read my site carefully - your son might be helped by creating his own legal documents like the Declaration of Facts and Objections and Corrections to the Report of the Social Worker (see the link right under my message for samples of these documents.)

Does your son have a reunification plan? He should have one - but how will he be able to complete services and go to all visitations when he's so far away? That's why he's more likely to get his child if he's living in the same county. If he is court ordered to do services and doesn't do them there's no way he will get his child.

Please hurry on this - there isn't much time......... they start termination of parental rights procedures at 18 months, in most cases.

[Nan4grandkids]

Thank you all for your input, you all had good points to make; Yes you are right it would be better if he at lest lived in the same state as his daughter but that is allmost inpossable He has 2 jobs and taking classes to better his shelf and career. He has allso taken over all care of his 9 yr old son, owe he has joint custade of to with a nother woman. We found him and mom in a homeless shelter 9 months ago and mother agried he was better off with is father. My grandson is doing great now he went from not being able to read to reading full lienght books now.He is working on full custody. He has applied of emergency custody of his daughter when all of this happened 7 months ago and was approved by the state of IND. But the state of KY will not approve it. That is when they chargred him with child neglect for not paying her water bill for her back before it was turned off. Stating that he knew her living conditions. {Yes he should have known to pay all her bills on top of paying child support}.
They arent friends anymore and I am there go between person I am the one that drives down to KY 2 times a month to pick her up and take her back. It is a 365 mile round trip to get her and then take her back agian. This I did willingly because I love my granddaughter more than any amount of miles or money it took to do this.
Sorry back to true story. My son have reapplied for emergency custody in IND. and KY reply is to make him take a DNA test. Even thou he has proven Perteraty in IND.
(Does your DNA change from state to state, DNA is DNA) this is just a ploy to keep her in the state. This was just ordered done by the CPS not a court order yet. What can we do to stop this ,time is running out for my granddaughter we have a court case in Sept. don't know when court appointed lawyerwont tell us ex time or date. But I have a bad feeling that this court date is about giving up parental rights and thats why they don't wont us to come. If anyone knows any quick actions we can make your help would be very greatfull. (It's no longer about a water bill it;s about keeping tax money in KY, by keeping my granddaughter in state custody.

[family_man]

First your son has to prove in a KY court he's the father of your granddaughter if his name is not on her birth certificate. He can do it the same way he proved it in IN. Next, KY CPS has to initiate an interstate placement of her in IN. A formal procedure for this exists, called the Interstate Compact for the Placement of Children. (Google it.) Under this Compact, KY CPS has to formally request IN CPS to conduct a home study of your son's home. This study will not only include safety but also your son's ability to support another child. (Note that during the placement, the mother will have to pay child support to your son.) If IN's home study is favorable, and approves of the placement, then KY may place the child with your son. (If they don't, you can ask the judge to order her placed there. However, the judge cannot order her placed there without IN's formal permission.) While your granddaughter is placed with your son, IN CPS will monitor the family. After about 6 months, if the placement is going well, IN will give formal permission to KY to release custody of your granddaughter to your son.

If placing your granddaughter with your son is not feasible for some reason, maybe they could place her with you, following the same procedure. Qualified kinship placements should take precedence over foster parents. If KY CPS balks, only a judge can overrule them and make them follow the law.

[Nan4grandkids]

Thanks for all the info, we have done a few things allready like filling agian in IND. for emergency custody he did this back when this all started CPS allready come out and checked out his place and said it was ok. CPS approved him in IND. But said they would have to wait and see what the court does in KY. Right now he can support 2 kids but he is working 2 jobs and taking classes so he knows that if he gets her something will have to give. I have been helping out as much as i can but I work 50 to 60 hr weekes and I am the mane income in the household. Back when all this happened I ask if I could take care of her but CPS said it had to be someone in the some county and state. I ask my lawyer about grandparents rights a long time ago becuase I was the main sourse of transportation of her back and forth from IND to KY. Her mother has never had a drivers liscense. I was allways afraid of driving her accross state lines. My lawyer said I couldnt get grandparents rights inless my son was died or in jail and he isnt I dont want to trup him on his rights. Is this true and would this Kinship law work for me.
The mother is allmost done with her list of things to do. They held her up on taking parenting classes for 4 mouths and are still holding my son up on this. The state of KY just wants to hold us up long enough to give her back to her Mom. We are ok with her going back to her mom if we new she could stay out of trouble. She has been charged with domestic voilance and battery 2 time now. and don't think it is wise to let her go back were this can happen agian and she get taken away agian.

[family_man]

Emergency custody for you son might have worked before KY CPS took legal custody. Now the only way your GD could be placed with your son is through the ICPC. During your son's home study, make sure that they interview you as well as your son and that your income is included as possible support for your GD. IN will be more likely to approve the placement if they believe you won't be a burden to your state's child welfare system.

Interstate kinship placements occur all the time, and not just to out-of-state parents.

[Nan4grandkids]

thanks agian for all the info Yes my son and I would have been better off just going down and getting her and fighting the battle then before cps took her. But we were keep in the dark by mother and by CPS not notifing us like they should have. Now the fight is going to be a long hard one for us all.
I didn't know I could co-aply for her I was told by a lawyer that I had no grandparents rights except the verble word of my son and the mother. I had the mother sign a hand written agreement 2 years ago that stated she gave me the right to pick up and drop off my granddaughter and take her accross state lines. BUt I was allway afriad this was not fully legal and I wanted to get it written up by my lawyer he said I didn't need to. I was ALLWAYS stuck being the go between. and getting played by the mother because I love my granddaughter. I feel this is half my folt for not saying no to them both.
I am looking up that intersate placement laws thanks.

[Nan4grandkids]

granddaught case has now gone throu 5 different case worker and with each one we have to start all over agian. My son has been approved by a court judge to take his parenting class in Indiana but cps refuses to except IN parenting classes. In the mean time the mother has been charged with demestic violance and battery on her own mother how came into her house uninvited and claimed she tossed her out. This is the grandmother that we think made the false call to CPS. if charged with this how will it effect her case to get her daughter back. My son thas filed all papers from IN that prove he is the father and they are now looking at him a little closer.he is tring to fine a 3 bedroom house so he will have a room for each of this kids. But bloomington is a expensive college town and at this time of the year it is allmost inpossable to find one. we have a 6 mouth review court date on Sept. 16 and are rusing to get everything together. I want to thank u for all the legal paperwork u have had me look up it have helped a lot.

[family_man]

if charged with this how will it effect her case to get her daughter back.

It will become more difficult for the mother to get her daughter back if she is charged with DV. It will basically put her entire CPS case on hold until the criminal case is decided. If she is convicted, she may never get her daughter back. Whose house was entered by whom? If the grandma was evicted by the mom for inappropriate behavior, it might be a good thing in the eyes of CPS, since the mom was "protecting" the daughter.

Regarding the parenting class, if the judge approved it and CPS doesn't "accept" it, then CPS will have some explaining to do before the judge. It won't look good for the caseworker.

Have they initiated the ICPC process? Has IN CPS started the home study?

[Nan4grandkids]

This is nan4grandkids at last we talked granddaughts mom was charged with DV by her own mom who come into her house uninvited said she was staying . the daughter kicked her out and mother called police and she was charged with DV for kicking someone out of her own house. Well she didnt show up for court and was arrested and spent 3 weeks in jail, and yes this has hurt her case very much. But it has helped my son's case to get his daughter. All at once they wonted to talk to him help him get her back. They approved for him to take parenting classes in Indiana which are online classes and he is done with them allready. but they have yet to acknowledge them. they have agreed to let him have phone calles to her but havent given him her #. And will not return his calles agian. Her case was handed over to yet agian a nother case worker and he was helping us out for about a mouth and then boom nothing. This last mouth nothing we have called 2-3 times a day, emailed had lawyer call nothing.
Well today is one of our saddest days, today is my granddaughter 6 th birthdays and we can't even call her. A judge gave us the rights to free visition and phone calls 6 mouths ago and we have only gotten one visit 3 mouths ago and that was only because CPS had a meeting with foster parent and we were invited to see her after that. And while we were there we asked for foster parents # they said ok but CPS worker said no. THEy cant do that can they when a judge has approved it allready.
So here we are on her 6th Birthday with all new clothes and presents for her and we cant talk to her or see her it just isn't right. Were are the childes and parents rights if CPS can over ride a judges order. this is the last Christmas or Birthday I am going to miss because of CPS.
We are going back to court Sept. 16th I need some help with how to make CPS comply with court orders. asap thank u

[LindaJM]

You might be able to get compliance with the court order by filing for an administrative hearing (call the State Dept. of Social Services to set that up) or by visiting the county's commissioners... or attending their meetings to tell them what's going on.