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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:59 pm
by MarkMiclette


My name is Mark Miclette and my wife and I are wanted by the FBI for kidnapping our own children back from the same agency that stole them in the first place.

I am an educated, intelligent reasonable guy with no record of abuse or neglect of my children. My wife is a stay at home mother who worships our children. We never had a run-in with any law enforcement agency until an arrest on bogus charges the day my children were stolen from us. My two boys were taken from us after we were arrested on a warrant from another state, which was a trumped charge and was immediately dropped 72 hours later.

But the Oregon DHS got their claws in our life and would not let go. Their reason... medical neglect. Their proof... my 9 year old had an adult tooth trying to break through, the gum, yet the baby tooth had not come out yet. I am fucking serious. That was their reason.

We were aware of his tooth and were having him rinse every 2 hours with sea salt and water, and the dentist wanted to give it the weekend before he needed to see him, but to Party Member (caseworker) Susan Vandecoevering of the oregon DHS/CPS this was reason to keep them both in the system for30 days while they did a complete evaluation, including, but not limited to, checking for sexual abuse.

How about these questions for a 9 and 12 year old....."have you ever seen your mother put your father's penis in her mouth? Have you ever been touched down here by your father? Do your parents have you watch people having sex on the television?" and of course...when the pervert interviewer was not able to get an affirmation of these things... "have you ever seen your parents in the nude coming out of the shower?.... you have?.....hmmm...I see."

After our children's 30 day asessment, we believed like idiots that they and the judge would see that our kids were well adjusted and return them to us. Were we played like fools..... that day I saw our report for the first time. It was filled with such BULLSHIT I could not sit still. But I sat, I listened while they petitioned the court for permanent custody and I turned my anger into action.

I used whatever means were at my disposal to find their foster home and I just stole my babies back and fled the country. My wife had nothing to do with any of this and was unaware of my plans. She thought I was going on a business trip and I had sent her ahead to meet me there as I had a few places to visit first.

It has been 3 months and we are a happy family again. I don't regret leaving my previous life behind and do not mind living in relative poverty and having to learn a new language. What matters most is the children. I am their hero and we are once again a family.

I highly recommend everyone do this, but plan the operation carefully and completely, as getting caught doing it is not good. Leaving your children in the system is harmful to their mental and in many cases, physical health, and it is your role as their parents to protect them.

When the law does something immoral, it is your moral right to fight back. The state does not answer to God, you do. And years from now, when you are on your deathbed, still greving for your you really think you are going to look deep inside yourself and say "I obeyed a few petty government bureaucrats over my conscience and lost my children in the process......for that I am at peace". ???? Doubt FIGHT BACK!!! In most cases, these people are idiots and the system is filled with incompetence. Use it to your advantage.

No regrets here. I am bitter at a few people...and always will be. But my wife is happy again and my kids are whole. That is all that matters for I am their father and her husband and it is my job to protect them from all harm, even if it is from the government. I can once again sleep a full night on a dry pillow and wake up without that pit in my stomach. (you guys know that feeling....) For that I am thankful.

Mark Miclette

P.S. are wasting your time trying to find me via a subpoena to this organization or their server. I am posting through a multiple proxy chain using multiple country's IP's. It then goes through a socks server that flushes the information every 2-10 hours and It all ends in a server located in a country which you have no reciprocal legal jurisdiction don't bother wasting your time. :wink:

PPS. I have written a 21 page paper on my experiences and want the truth to be online to counter the mug shots and lies that the feds and oregon posted about my dear wife and I. Any suggestions what website I can post this on? Thanks folks...


To Mark

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:09 pm
by LindaJM
I know the email address you used to access this message board didn't work because I got your validation email back and clicked to allow you access to my site. I usually do that... I don't want people to get frustrated by not being able to get into the message board. However..... I don't know what to do about your postings. I'm tempted to delete them. No offense to you, but... I don't want my site taken down for any reason as it is a resource for families in need.

I would never recommend a family to do what you've done. I've known other families who ran and got caught. For example Diane Booth whose son was taken by the FBI in Canada and returned to fosterincarceration in Santa Clara County after just a couple of months. Also there is the sad case of the Christines. They took their kids back but only a few days later were apprehended in Montana. It is very sad - the parents are both now incarcerated in Oregon, three of their children are with her parents in England and two are in Indiana with his mother. Brian Christine was sentenced to twelve years.... this is just so heart wrenching.

If you don't mind the FBI having your IP number here, do you mind if I go ahead and post it and trace it? That way maybe I won't have to deal with any subpoenas. I think the topic of taking back your children is something we should discuss. I just have to say I know of very few cases where it was successful so I never recommend it.

Please do NOT use my private mail system for contacts. If the FBI asks for access to your account I will give it freely as I'm totally above board with the law... I have to be in order to maintain this system and protest CPS the way I do. Anyone who writes to you privately could put their own case in danger.



Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:45 pm
by MarkMiclette
My email does work. It is a valid, secure account. I activated my membership using it and will continue to use. It is also a secure, encrypted email, so I have no problem using it.

Now, to address your points....

As the site moderator, I fully respect your position. However you mentioned several people who ran and were caught. They got caught because they were not educated on how to hide and remain anonymous. Period.

Also, what about the tens of thousands who run each year and are not caught. ?
What if 25,000 parents got fed up and took their kids back at once. What are they going to do...lock everyone up at once...The media would finally expose this issue and the politicians would finally reform the system. It takes MASSIVE disobedience to change the system, not an email to your duly elected politician. They will never be re-elected on this issue as it stands they don't care. Unless the public DEMANDS reform, nothing will change. And right now, the public does not give a shit.

And most important...what about the children? Were you ever abused? Were you ever taken from a loving home and put in a home with people who ignore you and treat you like a piece of shit?

One day of that can harm a kid for life. A month could destroy them forever. A year could drive them to suicide.

Do you still believe I did the wrong thing? I don't.

There are support groups out there to protect and hide abused kids from their parents, but none to protect and hide abused kids from their government. Why?

And why does this problem get worse every year instead of better?

I used to read and watch news about this happening my whole response was the same as everyone elses...ah...they probably deserved it...there is no way the government would do this to an innocent person, and even if it happens once in a while, the DHS/CPS does more good than harm. will never happen to me.

Well, my number came up and my kids were abused and kept from us and there was no end in sight. I had two choices:

1. Suck up and accept it, or

2. Save my children from further harm.

As a father, I had a moral obligation to protect them. I find it hard to understand any parent who would not do the same.

Anyhow, censor me if you want. I will go elsewhere with my message of hope and disobedience to a government agency out of control. You know the deal in is well documented. The CPS gets $4,000 bonus every time they are able to adopt out a kid taken from their parents...and an extra $2,000 if the kid is special needs.

So...censor me...the oregon DHS/CPS will thank you for it.


Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:11 pm
by Lindseysmommy
i agree with linda i do not think its appropriate for people to respond to this post...
i understand that everyone has the right to make their own decisions and such
this website has helped many people and is a great place for support...
i do not want this website to get jeopordized in any way

Censorship? not my normal style...

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:17 pm
by LindaJM
Actually, I don't want to censor you. I admire your commitment to the safety of your children and the integrity of your family.

I agree with you 100% that CPS fosterincarceration homes are dangerous for children. And I think you did a brave and loving thing. But I'm a site owner, and can't recommend people do anything illegal. I don't want people getting in trouble, ending up where Brian and Ruth Christine are.

I wish I'd known the Christines better when their children were in foster care. They lived just 75 miles north of me and I had no idea they were not cooperating with their reunification plan on principle. I didn't know they were planning to take back their children. If I'd known them I would have recommended a different course of action.

Anyhow, I don't fault you for what you did. But it was very risky and I know too many who didn't succeed.

I noticed you had registered twice and it was the first time the email came back to me. I deleted it and deleted the first account since you're using the second one to post.

As far as getting your 21 page document online, why don't you post it to a website like Geocities or one of the other free ones? Then whoever wants to can link to it.

You asked why the problem gets worse rather that better. Good question! After protesting this system fifteen years, I think I've finally discovered the answer within the last year or so.

Our legislators will NEVER be responsive to our cries for justice, so long as we keep electing Democrats and Republicans. The reason why is that too many of them are either being bought off or blackmailed. And why? Because an international shadow government is telling our leaders what to do.

So I honestly think all our attempts to tell legislators the truth and ask for their help is falling on deaf ears. What's the next course of action? I don't really know. I'm just trying to support people who are getting stuck in this wretched family destroying system. I'm not starting any revolutions or recommending anything illegal. ::sigh::... I have so many other things to do with my life than to get in trouble with the law... at my age. So we each do what we can and as a believer, I know God will inspire the right actions at the right time to resolve the problem. I am probably not the person He's going to inspire though. I'm just doing my little part by maintaining this site so hundreds of people can breathe a sigh of relief and know they're not the only ones this injustice is happening to. And I provide sample legal documents and a little bit of knowledge of the legal system, and links to other resources and people that might help.

I think the best thing that's happened in the last couple of years is that Leonard Henderson organized the American Family Rights Association - a group that's uniting victims of CPS in every state. We've grown so much in a short time. We need to get our own people into the legislature, and I don't know what else, but I've absolutely lost faith in 99% of the politicians in power these days. They don't care about us. They don't care about poor or middle class families..... not when it comes to protecting us from CPS injustice.


libertarian party

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:47 pm
by MarkMiclette
Good response.

I agree with you on the Repubs and Dems in the USA and their corrupion. I also notice you support the libertarian party. Much better.

But it will be years and years before the changes are made and millions of lives will be destroyed in the interim. And on this forum I notice you don't talk about numbers, you talk about people...individual situations.

Mine is an individual situation and I will continue to be an advocate for disobedience and breaking of laws that are designed to harm MY children. Anyone that wants advice on how to stay anonymous...I'll tell you this legal, yet free advice:

1. You must be willing to cut yourself off 100% from every single person you knew in your previous life. Your new family tree, until you are are near death and want to say goodbye, begins with you. Trust noone. Your children, when making new friends and especially when they reach dating age, must understand that wanting to trust another person is normal...believing you can trust them with your most private thoughts is beautiful, but the moment they have a fight and go their separate ways, their friend will tell their family and friends and the children will end up in a foster home again. This must be driven home daily. Period.

2. Once your children are grown, you can give them the option of going back. if they do, you hopefully will have taught them how to help retain your anonymity. Or you can turn yourself in. You have done your job and raised them in the way they deserved, not the way that the government wanted to impose on them. You may want a rest by that time... :lol:

3. You have to change physivcally if you are to remain in the USA. the kids will change every week as they grow. Simply cutting or growing their hair will do wonders. But you need to either gain weight if you're skinny, lose weight if your fat, change you hairstyle to a way that changes your look, grow facial hair or shave it and dress like the locals. If you're in farm town in nebraska, wear cowboy boots and a big-ass buckle, if you're n San Francisco, dress like a liberal hippy, but change your skin. :wink:

4. Always be clean and when you do get a car, keep it as nice as possible. All lights must work, blinkers, etc. Avoid driving as much as possible and smile at people, but be shy as well. Avoid eye contact.

5. Memorize your name and story so much and so often and keep testing each other. Only allow your children to call each other by their new names. Allow them to choose their new first names, unless you purchase new identities for them and you....(which you will have to do to remain free). But this forum is not a place for those instructions.

Lastly.......6. No drugs. No alcohol. Ever. Period. If you use drugs or drink alcohol, you will make a mistake. It happens every time.

I know this probably raises more questions than answers. All the other info I could give you is stuff that involves purchasing and using a new skin...a new identity. All of that is highly illegal and takes a lot of knowledge. Once you go there, you can't go back, but for me it was a no brainer. I just had to remember what my kids went through and I was off and running.

I will soon be posting my story on a web page I just purchased on an offshore server in China using totally anonymus e-currency. When it is up and running I will be linking it all over the internet. My website will include instructions on how to accomplish the real meat of identity change and how to do it properly, with links to closed, unadvertised forums where anything can be purchased from vendors worldwide.

I respect this moderator's forum and will not do anything to jeopardize it's existence as I am sure it helps many, but for those of you who are more radical and not afraid to take the BIG step, I'm going to be available to help you. Someone has to.

"Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority."

And that carries more weight with me than any law that any government can impose on me. How about you folks?



Good suggestions

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:38 pm
by LindaJM
You have good suggestions for avoiding CPS agents even if we stay in this country and are not fugitives. Sheesh, the way the country is right now, we all should be living this way to avoid having CPS show up at our doors. No drugs ever. Right... it simply isn't worth it at all whatsoever. The kids come first.

Its like... just because we're parents and we have something the systemites want (kids, kids, and more kids)... we're all walking on eggs, having to be careful of what we say, who we anger, what we look like, what we do. This country has become totally pathetic. Big Brother systemites are watching all the time. I'm talking about mandated reporters who are trained to make reports whenever they see an imperfect family.

So your life as a fugitive in a foreign country (I suppose with no extradition laws?) would be somewhat similar to mine but I'm not making any effort to change appearances or names.

Here's something I discovered. I spent 10+ years in a large county and never once had a CPS agent at my door. But after moving to a teeny tiny population type county I had five reports/investigations in three years. So I deduce that living in a place where there's more to do... would keep one safer? Sometimes I think the CPS workers here just don't have enough to do with their time. Too few people to pick from. So they follow up on nonsense leads like "your daughter bites her arm" or "you might not be getting enough counseling for your kid". :roll: Plus maybe its just these small town type people... crazy about making snitch reports on each other. I know who reported me last time. One of these days I'll confront her. Thank God my kids are almost 18 now and I don't have any grandchildren. I will still be fighting CPS for all of you when they are no longer children, but I'll be much freer to speak my mind and DO things... like go to court or whatever it takes.

But anyhow, I just wonder.... how many people would even want to take your path? My guess is that 80% or more wouldn't be willing to make a permanent separation from extended family. I also think men are more likely to do something like this, but maybe not. Two of the people I know of who fled to Canada and applied for refugee status are single moms. One still had her children when last I heard, and the other was Diane Booth whose son was taken back to Santa Clara County by the FBI (though Diane was left in Canada). Last I heard he was still in their prison-like "hospital" called Ming Quong... a real hell-hole I'm sure and no place for a child to be raised. Where's the love?... and to think the entire abduction of Diane's son was done just because some control-freak school official decided her son should be on ritalin!

Well, I might start a poll because I'm just curious how many people here think this would be a good thing to do. Personally, I wouldn't want to. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to live in a foreign country and never see my parents or sister or brothers again.


To run or to fight?

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:59 am
by Bob_Lynn
Let me share my opinions on the subject since I took the legal approach.

1. It is the parents' inherent right to protect their children. No government has the right to take away that absolute and inalienable parental right. This country is allegedly a free democracy and as such, has all the appropriate laws to protect the inherent rights of human beings. The problem is that these laws are not always used and/or followed appropriately and within their intended purpose.

2. It is everyone's Constitutional right to sue the government (or any agent of the government) for a redress of grievances. However, inherent rights supersede all other rights.

3. The system makes #2 extremely difficult because the legal industry is probably one of the most profitable industries in this country, thereby creating a huge conflict of interest (money and justice don't mix) and by the same token, making "justice" affordable mainly for the wealthy.

4. The average person can still sue on a pro se basis to avoid a huge financial undertaking but there are still costs involved. The problem with a pro se suit is that you, as a total amateur, are going to go up against lawyers who are professionally trained and have years of experience (i.e. they do this for a living). You also will need to educate yourself and do a ton of research quickly and appropriately. There is no way for an amateur to do this without a PC and access to the internet. There is also no way for a person to do this without a reasonable level of education and a reasonably high degree of intelligence as well as some degree of capability beyond those 2 factors.

5. Just as the #3 and #4 options above are not reasonably available to most people, neither is the run away approach available to most people. That also takes too many factors to be able to pull off safely. The consequences of failure can be devastating.

Unfortunately, there is no quick and easy answer and everyone who has been affected by this neo-fascist system must deal with it according to their own environmental parameters. I am hoping and praying that we will prevail in our lawsuit and the result will affect as many people as possible in a positive way. We are working within the framework of the system to fix the system.

Having said all that, I can't blame anyone for taking an illegal approach to apply their inherent right to protect their children. As I said, that right trumps all other rights.


Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:38 am
by MarkMiclette
Leaving siblings is very hard, but in my case it was necessary as my concern was not for me or my feelings but my children. When I open my website next week and post my story, you will see why I had to do this. My kids were in serious danger and neither I, nor my attorney was getting anywhere. In fact, the more we complained, the more they added new concerns about my parenting.

On my website, I will also post an effective and affordable method to go underground or leave the country. It is very possible to do. I am fortunate as I have knowledge most of you do not yet have. I have been working on a book for the last three years on consumer fraud tactics used by the Russian mafia and their network in Europe and the United States.

Through my research I have become privy to the entire mega-business of Identity Theft and the ability to remain invisible. It is fascinating stuff, yet one of the reasons the police arrested me to begin with and the FBI was watching me. Of course, all charges were immediately dropped when all they had for evidence were a few computers and a half dozen boxes filled with my notes, interviews and book content.

The book itself will rock the country. Noone is invisible any more. If you applied for anything, rent an apartment, have kids in school, have electricity...not to even mention the obvious (bank accounts or credit cards); anything where personal info is involved, it is likely you are in a database that has been hacked by one of the thousands of Russians that run a multi-billion dollar a year business that reaches into every developed country in the world.

They regularly scan the 3 credit agencies looking for the 'right' victims that fit their current 'op' and matched up with the other information they already have on you drive, clothes you wear, who your neighbors are, etc. It is very complete and highly sophisticated. Within a month, the victims 'skins' are disposed of and new ones take their place. The success of the Russian economy is based in part on the gifts sent from the thousands of 'friends' and relatives in the USA and Europe who flood the country with millions of dollars of 'carded' product and 'carded' western unions daily.

The USA itself has a loose network of about 50,000 adults that make their living in this business and many earn in excess of a half million a year, working part time. There are children as young as 12 in cities and towns across the US earning more in a week than their parents carding product to drops that others pick up and sell for them, sending half the proceeds to e-currency accounts offshore.

I am telling you this in part because, as a result of this, when the US government finally admits this is happening, BIG BROTHER is going to really clamp down. Noone will be able to do anything ... buy, sell, etc....without it being logged somewhere. I am not saying this because I am one of those 'end times' .... "we will get implants by our govt...the bible prophesized it" types. I am saying this because the US government will be left with no choice. The internet has exposed us all to unprecedented exposure. There is no other solution the US government will know to do, but cast a watchful eye on all.

That includes what goes on in the home and your interactions with everyone, including your children.

And all in the name of protecting you.

So you think you got problems now??? Give it five years... :wink:


Government Control

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:29 am
by Bob_Lynn
I don't know anything about what you claim Mark but I have no doubt our government wants to control us. One of the most effective ways of control is through one's children. I know first hand all about that kind of insiduous control. If they take your children that you love, you'll do anything to get them back. These slime use that in order to get you to sign all sorts of documents for their benefit.

One of the parties suing had his kids kidnapped by CPS. They held his kids incommunicado. He went to the Administrator and told him if he didn't return his kids he would go to the media. The slimebag told him "be careful what you say, we have your kids". He went to the media regardless and made the biggest stink the County had ever seen. He parked his van in front of CPS everyday and it had pictures of his kids and posters all over it. It got to the point where people were actually throwing rocks at the CPS workers and screaming at them to give him his kids back. He was lucky (and smart) because he got his kids back as a result in an unprecedented 41 days (the average here is almost 6 months). We weren't as lucky because it took a letter to the governor and a meeting with the County Commissioner to get our kids back in 105 days. They only relented because the pressure was a bit too intense for them, especially when they had nothing on us to start with except trumped up BS.

What to do...

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:40 am
by LindaJM
That's what I'd do if it ever happened to me again, Bob. My strategy would be to go to the media with reports constantly, protest in front of the CPS building daily, and let everyone within the nearest ten counties (or more) know what was going on. I'd be the biggest b*tch they ever met. I'd give information to all their clients on how to fight them. They would definitely regret taking me on as a client and of course I'd never sign any of their damned papers!!

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me... it'll never happen.


great ideas

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:35 pm
by MarkMiclette
Both of you have great ideas. If you are well spoken and certain they have no case then that is the best way to handle it.

The CPS was using two things against me, however that I'd have been a fool to ignore.
Both of these were brought up in court:

1. He is being investigating by the FBI for crimes against the United States. If we release his children and the FBI arrests him, his children will suffer the same trauma all over again.

2. Because he has only been in the state of oregon for three weeks, we deem him to be a flight risk. We need to have the children here to help them with their medical neglect (toothache) and education.

But the bottom line for me was something more real. They already had them for 40 days and the court...not just the CPS ... had decided in my hearing to move forward with custody for an indefinite period. I knew by then of some of the abuse and neglect by the foster family and could not allow it to go on another day...not when I knew how to rescue them.

But again guys...excellent idea. I love it.


Crimes against the USA?

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:32 pm
by LindaJM
In what way could an investigation of the Russian mafia be a crime against the USA? And how did you get interested in that?

I too am a writer... though I don't speak of it much in this forum. Fortunately I'm concentrating on children's and historical fiction and not getting in trouble because of my research. San Francisco history isn't that hot a topic.

If you knew your children were being abused in the fosterincarceration facility, that would definitely tend to motivate what they called "custodial interference" when the Christines did it. The father of Dominic James told the caseworkers every week that his son had new injuries from being in a foster home, but they wouldn't move him. Instead he was battered to death by the fosterer: See The Ides Project .


my book

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:54 am
by MarkMiclette
My book is not an investigation of the Russian mafia, my book is a complete guide on how fraud is done and a complete exposure of the lack of security protecting our personal information.

My book will teach everyone who reads it how to perpetrate fraud of every type, however the purpose of the book is to teach you and others how to protect yourself. There are ways to protect yourself, but you have to protect your virtual identity as you do your front door.... Check it daily or more often.

By visiting these forums and interacting with these businessmen and women, without adequately concealing my 'ip' identity, I became a suspect.

The entire premise of my book is this:

In order to keep from getting scammed, you must know how to scam. Anything less is like knowing you should avoid getting your pocket picked without knowing how pickpockets do it. You must understand how they are doing the crime, otherwise you will never effectively be able to defend yourself.

My proof that I am right is this.... How often do we read news articles about the high incidence of Identity Theft these days and go to and see the hundreds of books that deal with this, yet the number of victims is doubling and some think tripling (because many don't report it to the law) every single year? There needs to be a major expose and something to shake everyone out of their comfort zones.

If you want to see how ez this is, give me your name and address and $60, and in anywhere from one to twenty-four ours I will email you a 15+ page report, starting with your birthday, social security number, driver's license number, mother's maiden name and phone... place of employment and phone number, type of car you drive, plate, vin and when you bought it, a list of all your neighbors and their addresses, dozens of your relatives; children, parents, cousings, grandparents and their home addresses, a full credit report from all 3 of the major credit reporting companies showing your credit history for the last 7 years, all of your credit card numbers, mortgage info, utility company accounts, liens and judgements, criminal history your entire life, etc. etc... and will top it off with a clse up photo of your home, shot from a satellite.

Trust me...I was as shocked as you when I learned that this info is available for anyone with the desire to get it.

Sorry to be so off topic. This forum should not be about this, however you did ask.. :)


That is my worker too!

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:09 pm
by ldsmama5
She is my worker and too and has been harassing us. Down to contacting neighbors. She has wanted us to remove carpeting and paying for hardwoods for our house because she says our home isn't good enough. She even had us change our laundry detergent and has even broken into my house. I know she did because she knew room layouts and described it to a T rooms out of veiw on the second floor. She even revolked my business licenses and now lawyers won't even touch me because she is notorious.
Today I found out she had all my scouting parents called telling them I am a danger. She even complained about my furniture. They are antiques and my great grandmothers.

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:13 am
by gideonmacleish

While I would not encourage someone else to do what you've done, I definitely understand the motives that drove it. Your case is eerily reminiscent of the Christine case, as mentioned above, only you managed to get out of the country.

I would be interested in contacting you to see what can be done to get your story out. We need to work together to end this oppression and get our lives back.

Best of luck.

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:20 am
by Dazeemay
As far as I know Gideon he has never come back to the forum.

His post was Jan.30, 2005

Just after he posted this my daughter and I saw their pictures on the Walmart FBI poster list.

It may come to that for all us one of these days.

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:46 am
by gideonmacleish

Yes, it may come down to that for all of us one day. We need to work hard not to let that happen.

There's more to our story than I am at liberty to tell here, but the story may be breaking sooner rather than later. Between the campaign and some contacts I am developing, we may be able to get our story out within the next couple years.

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:50 am
by gideonmacleish
Thanks for pointing out that it was on old post, dazee. Here's the update, for anyone who wants it. Sadly, it turned out the way so many of these cases do: ... heir.shtml

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:30 am
by Dazeemay
How sad :(

We all know the lies they tell about anyone to make them look like fugitives, abusive parents etc.

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:06 am
by Momof31995
this is indeed a sad case...those poor children may never be healed :(

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:18 am
by Frustrated
Do you recoken if he was caught by the FBI? mmm sad to know that if that was the case, the children had to suffer abuse all over again...

Anyhow, to raise the interesting point, since I know this is an old post, but he raised very interesting point.

Teeth and Dental Checks can be cause for removal of Children for Sexual Abuse.....

My School has a Dentist Assistant and she check all Children in Schools to check for problems to their teeth and she was supposed to report to CPS if there is a suspect for Sexual Abuse. This was done at every Schools, EVERY SCHOOL! and the Dental Checks are automatically sent to CPS.

I mean, Dental Checks can be falsely reported daily and can be wrong, and they point the fingers saying it was Sexual Abuse, whereas it was because the baby tooth won't come out. I know as far when it comes to Children, I have known many, many Children that can't have their baby tooth come out by itself, and can easily be pulled out by a Qualified Dentist. I have seen many Kids having the same problem, that the baby tooth won't come out and it was a stubborn old thing and a darn old thing won't come out but it is RIDICULOUS to say that it is associated to Sexual Abuse???

COME ON!!!! I can understand if the Kids had herpes, that would be a cause for alarm, but a baby tooth? RIDICULOUS! If that was the case, my two Kids had their stubborn baby tooth that won't come out but went to the Dentist and he took it out easily, and all it took was one day.

ONE DAY! It can be easily remedied. Why REMOVE Children based on a baby tooth?


and why ask questions to Children to the fact they don't even know what a BJ was? uH? That question alone can be harmful to Children's mental state and emotional wise, it can be damaging and harmful asking Sex Questions to them. Even if they never had seen it, and never heard of it before! I cannot imagine telling the Children about Sex Stuff. I think it is an Emotional Abuse on Children from CPS telling them that Mom and Dad did their Sexual Orgies and stuff. Children don't need to know these stuff. They should be asked DELICATELY AND GENTLY by other forms like "Did you have a good touch? or a bad touch?" That is a indirect and easy question and they will tell you whether if it was a good touch or bad touch. Why tell the Children about Sex Showers and BJ? What for? THAT ALONE Is harmful to Children's mental state. They violated Questioning Procedure and was supposed to ask gently and unharmful questions.

I KNOW that they ask damaging Questions and LEADING Questions on my Children, I KNOW what kind of questions they ask, they asked just like this Man, they would point out their Parent's that did all the abuse to Children. They were supposed to ALLOW the Children to IDENTIFY the maltreator or abuser, but CPS just had named them instanteously. WRONG Procedure and a violation to their CPS Manual Procedure rule to where they are NOT SUPPOSED to ASK LEADING QUESTIONS naming the abuser or maltreator. Check out the website on or, it has all the details about Sexual Abuse Procedures and how to ask them questions, and stuff. It also lists that they are not supposed to name the abuser or maltreator and was supposed to allow them to identify them by themselves (the children) NOT CPS!

I have heard many times from Children from other Families that they were asked the same leading questions on their parents over and over...

It is bad procedure and should never be allowed in reports or Court as proof, because it is by default because CPS has named them, not the Children....

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:56 pm
by Greegor
Could someone please tell me why dental checks
are even being done in schools?

How do they justify that if the family has
a regular dentist?

Isn't such a dental check a violation of
parents right to direct medical care?

The person may be for real, and it's sad,
but I also know for a fact there are some
people who would pose as somebody in
his situation AS A STING to catch people
who e-mail him or offer any help.

Yes, there ARE some people so rabidly
obsessed about Child Protection that they
would do such things.

One of the rabid PRO-CPS kooks is rumored to have
pulled a sting among firearms enthusiasts.
He supposedly arranged a sale of an
illegal firearm like a machine gun, as a sort
of private sting, and called in Law Enforcement.

The rumor goes that the ATF and other
law enforcement stepped into it but then
told him not to run anymore private stings.

He changed his identity and changed hobbies.

The story about how THIS "investigative journalist"
dug DEEP into the underground criminal e-commerce
industry and got grabbed by the authorities
sounded a bit familiar.

I'm glad the guy got the machine gun/s out of
criminal hands, glad the guy dug into the
massive e-crime, even glad about those
people who sting real child molesters, but
this stuff should be done by law enforcement
or a contractor and not some private vigilante.

He may very well BE wanted by the FBI for real.
We know the system has pushed people that far.
BUT, as I said, this could be a sting trying to
scoop up people willing to smuggle these people
out of the country.

Re: What to do...

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:21 pm
by sob900
LindaJM wrote:That's what I'd do if it ever happened to me again, Bob. My strategy would be to go to the media with reports constantly, protest in front of the CPS building daily, and let everyone within the nearest ten counties (or more) know what was going on. I'd be the biggest b*tch they ever met. I'd give information to all their clients on how to fight them. They would definitely regret taking me on as a client and of course I'd never sign any of their damned papers!!

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me... it'll never happen.


This is exactly what I am about to do in NJ, god they are NOT going to like me one bit and I am in the right for doing it.

Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:47 pm
by Frustrated
Well, I don't know the whole story to this Man's Family, but anybody can google him in Oregon area, and you will find out what the story was about, the newspapers probably printed about him. He said it was well documented in Oregon, so we can always google Oregon and find out what happened. But often times CPS would fabricate a story out of this.

Baby Tooth, Sexual Abuse?

It is sometimes true that some Kids were sexually abused through the mouth, but it does not cause baby tooth to stunt its growth. It has more other stuff like herpes, diseases, rotting of the teeth, rash, red marks, and such like that, it needs more than that for that kind of description.

Sometimes a Diagnosis can be wrong. Yes, they do Dental Checks at all Schools and will refer you to go to your Dentist for cavities and such. But if severe was suspected will be reported to CPS.