Proactive or paranoid?

[zonie]

Hi group! I hope I am not intruding in a forum where I do not belong. I am not involved with CPS at the moment (I think). But the thought of it brought me to fightcps.com and this forum.

My interest right now is to protect myself and my family in case something should happen. Call it paranoia. Call it being proactive. I want to know what you would do if you were me, or what you would do if you could go back in time knowing what you know now.

An incident occured in my home over the weekend with my son (7) and his friend and our neighbor's son (9), the details of which I won't divulge at the moment.

The first thing I did was cut off all contact with this boy. My children cannot play with him or at his house, and he's not allowed in my home. I no longer drive the boy to school or home, and they will not be allowed to play at all even outside. For now. This boy is just a couple of houses down from us, and the neighbor's kids and my kids would play outside together frequently. At some point, I may start allowing outdoor, supervised play.

The second step was see a therepist, which my son will do weekly for the time being. The therepist called CPS while I was in the office. They took a report and said that they would not be investigating. They took my information and since a cross reference didn't reveal anything, they decided not to proceed. This is how it was explained to me. However, I do know the neighbors were investigated recently and the case is supposedly closed.

Third step, I took my son to his pediatrician to make sure he has no injuries. He's fine, physically. Good! But I know the pediatrician filed a report as well, as they are required to. The pediatrician asked me to sign a release so records from the therepist could be sent to him. I'm not sure why. I didn't fill out the release as I believe what my son and his therepist discuss should be kept private. I'm not sure if I should send a letter to the pediatrician to explain why I didn't sign the release or just let it go.

Last stop. The attorney. My DH thinks I'm nuts, but I wanted to have legal representation in case something should happen. The attorney said that if there was going to be an investigation, I'd know it by now. I'd have been contacted, so I shouldn't worry. I could call if something does happen.

OK, so what now? I have read here at this forum that days and weeks have gone by before parents are contacted. I'm afraid that this could happen to us, and I'm afraid they will visit my children's schools without my knowledge, and before I am notified that they are investigating.

I'm also not sure, on a side note, if I should allow my son to continue to participate in an after school club that the other boy is also a member of, so long as the boys don't sit next to each other, or speak to one another. Perhaps this is a question for his therepist.

Unfortunatly, my son doesn't want to lose his "friend" and is just as upset by the abrubtness of stopping all contact as by the incident itself.

I have printed and will laminate the reverse miranda cards for my sons which I will put in their back packs and will have them keep in their pockets. I have also talked to my older son about saying "I can't talk to you without my parents" and we will continue to practice (even when someone is nice, if it's a police officer, if they say he'll be helping if he does, or if they say he'll be in trouble if he doesn't, or if his trusted teacher says it's OK).

I have also downloaded a letter from the internet stating my child cannot speak with anyone without my presence at their schools. My DH thinks if I send these letters to the schools, I am making myself look guilty or I will be creating a situation where the school will question what is going on (for now, they are unaware). I feel like doing this would be taking it just a step too far. But then again, I think it's important always, even if there is no reason to think CPS will ever come knocking on my door. Something that every parent should do, regardless. Err on the side of caution.

I will set up a guardianship although I'm still not clear as to how this works. I have read, but I'm not "getting it". Our chosen guardian should we ever die is out of state. Perhaps we should choose someone near by.

All of this based on my fear that although CPS said they were not going to investigate, they might still start an investigation without my knowing. Or perhaps the other boy will repeat the behavior in the future and my family's name will come up.

I do know, as I said before, the other family involved has been investigated before, recently, for another child, for another unrelated matter. Whether or not their case is still open, I don't know. Supposedly it is closed. Apparently when the therepist called CPS and filled in the info and cross referenced, nothing about the other family came up. Could it have later? I don't know how it works "inside".

I feel somewhat safe that this will not proceed. But at the same time, I am worried that it could, and I don't want to be unprepared.

I appreciate your comments and replies

Zonie

[Dazeemay]

I will set up a guardianship although I'm still not clear as to how this works. I have read, but I'm not "getting it". Our chosen guardian should we ever die is out of state. Perhaps we should choose someone near by. [/quote

You can do a private guardianship for one closer. You canalso do one for the out of state one in case of your demise.

https://www.legaldocs.com/docs/rev_child1.mv This link also gives you the info for doing a revocation.

I want to know what you would do if you were me, or what you would do if you could go back in time knowing what you know now.

From what I know now I would have made sure my grandchildren were protected in everyway possible from outside forces. I am making brochures to hand out to as many parents as I can to prepare them for the upcoming school year.

That brochure will state why they must do a guardianship. Guardianship is needed in this day and age because of cps hotlines and mandated reporters. It is needed in case a parent gets ill so that cps cannot come in and take the child because of the illness. It is needed in case of death. It is needed if you have to go out of town. It is simply needed.

Looking back I would have had my grandchildren carry miranda cards and put the guardianship papers in their school files plus a letter stating that no one could interview them.

Looking back,it is better to create a situation now. Why deal with it later when you won't be able to as easily.

It is the end of the school year and you will have already set things in motion for the next school year.

You are not paranoid believe me. Better to be proactive and aware of what is happening in our country.

I'm not sure if I should send a letter to the pediatrician to explain why I didn't sign the release or just let it go.

Personally I would just let it go. You must however be very careful of therapists. They are mandated reporters too. Here is a link of why one should be careful of them.

http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i25/25b00701.htm

[zonie]

[/quote]

You must however be very careful of therapists. They are mandated reporters too. Here is a link of why one should be careful of them.

http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i25/25b00701.htm[/quote]

Thank you for the article. I have read it. What would you suggest? I think my son would benefit from therepy long or short term. It was the counselor there who called CPS in the first place, and I knew he would. I just didn't want my fear to overrule my desire to get him help. I'll re-read the article. Is there anything in particular I should be asking a therepist, or a specific type of therepist I should be looking for? Maybe that's in the article, but like I said, I need to read it again.

[Dan Sullivan]

If there was minor sexual contact between the boys CPS shouldn't be involved because the boys aren't related.

You have a choice of putting your son in therapy where whatever happened with be focused upon and discussed till it will be something that your son could never put in the back of his mind.

Or you let the boy get over whatever it was in his own time and probably completely forget about it.

And forget a LOT faster than you would expect.

In NY sexual contact between siblings where their age difference is less than five years is not supposed to be considered anything more than child's play.

And we all know sexual play between kids, related and otherwise, does occur quite frequently... and (not surprisingly) if CPS learns of it they believe it happened because the children were previously molested by a parent!

Best, Dan

[Dazeemay]

Is there anything in particular I should be asking a therepist, or a specific type of therepist I should be looking for? Maybe that's in the article

Sorry, I have no idea.

My daughter is the one who dealt with the therapist. Our case was very unusual though and involved a lot because of medical history. My daughter felt the therapist was sincere and helpful, but after cps took our granddaughter then they involved the therapist who also fell into their clutches. The therapist began to twist everything my daughter and granddaughter told her.

There are others on the board who may know more how to answer your question though.

If you do the guardianship and you do end up with a lousy therapist the guardianship will protect you. But, always be sure to keep up on the guardianship info as this could change. Once they begin to realize that we have a tool to keep them out of our lives they may seek ways to prevent us from being able to use it.




[/quote]

[Dan Sullivan]

The first thing I did was cut off all contact with this boy. My children cannot play with him or at his house, and he's not allowed in my home. I no longer drive the boy to school or home, and they will not be allowed to play at all even outside. For now. This boy is just a couple of houses down from us, and the neighbor's kids and my kids would play outside together frequently. At some point, I may start allowing outdoor, supervised play.

Have you spoken with the other boy's parents about what happened?

I would suggest you do... and I also think you should stop treating the other boy as you have been.

First, you should have the meeting with the boy's parents.

Keep in mind what happened is not their fault.

The goal of that meeting is to set up another meeting... with the boy and his parents (your son shouldn't be at this meeting)... and you all tell the boy that you know he's good friends with your son and you'd all like that friendship to continue... but something happened that you don't want to happen again (no details need be discussed). "You know what we're talking about?" The boy, "Yes." "Will you promise it won't happen again?" "Yes."

And then you could allow the friendship to continue while keeping a watchful eye on the situation.

Let everything go back to the way it was.

Last stop. The attorney. My DH thinks I'm nuts,

For overreacting.

on a side note, if I should allow my son to continue to participate in an after school club that the other boy is also a member of, so long as the boys don't sit next to each other, or speak to one another.

More overreacting.

my son doesn't want to lose his "friend" and is just as upset by the abrubtness of stopping all contact as by the incident itself.

Probably more so.

My DH thinks if I send these letters to the schools, I am making myself look guilty or I will be creating a situation...

You've already raised this situation to a level far in excess of where it should be.

All of this based on my fear that although CPS said they were not going to investigate, they might still start an investigation without my knowing. Or perhaps the other boy will repeat the behavior in the future and my family's name will come up.

The boy did what THOUSANDS of kids do, every year. He's NOT a criminal. He shouldn't be treated as one.

I appreciate your comments and replies

Andrea in Arizona

Good luck... and calm down.

Dan from Noo Yawk

[TracyP]

I was someone whom I thought it would never happen to me. I'll bet around 90%+ of us here are. If I could do it again at the beginnng of every year I would send a letter to the childrens school stating they are not allowed to be interviewed by school officials (esp the school counselor), or DHS or law agencies without my being notified 5 days in advance so my child could have an advocate present. If you read your school handbook, most have a little paragraph you sign that says its ok for the school to talk to your kid. You can't imagine something like a full scale DHS investigation would ever happen so you blindly sign it.

If I had it to do all over again they would think I was the most paranoid person in the world.

Also, if you don't trust your childs friend. Keep them away. Better for your child to be mad and not understand now than to suffer later when they take YOUR child away. If you don't trust this child, remember GOD gives you mothers instincts for a reason. NO supervised play either.

Good Luck and God Bless

[TracyP]

In NY sexual contact between siblings where their age difference is less than five years is not supposed to be considered anything more than child's play.

And we all know sexual play between kids, related and otherwise, does occur quite frequently... and (not surprisingly) if CPS learns of it they believe it happened because the children were previously molested by a parent!

Best, Dan

In Arkansas the law is the same in regard to siblings and the initiator has to be over the age of 10, however in my case as it is with many DHS cases,they didn't pay attention to THE LAW. There were 4 years between the children, the alleged incident happened according to DHS 2 full years ago (so the kids would have been "over it" by now), and the kids were 5 & 9.

[Dan Sullivan]

In NY sexual contact between siblings where their age difference is less than five years is not supposed to be considered anything more than child's play.

And we all know sexual play between kids, related and otherwise, does occur quite frequently... and (not surprisingly) if CPS learns of it they believe it happened because the children were previously molested by a parent!

Best, Dan

In Arkansas the law is the same in regard to siblings and the initiator has to be over the age of 10, however in my case as it is with many DHS cases,they didn't pay attention to THE LAW. There were 4 years between the children, the alleged incident happened according to DHS 2 full years ago (so the kids would have been "over it" by now), and the kids were 5 & 9.

Then your attny should have brought that information to the attention of the Judge and CPS.

Best, Dan

[TracyP]

Even according to our case worker the case should have never been opened. However because they did, it cost us $5000 (we make ($15,000 a year) in attorney fees + and we have to go to court because they listed all three of my children (when supposedly only 2 were involved in the incident) on the juvenille agressor list.

[Dan Sullivan]

OK... after the meeting with both sets of parents and the other boy where he acknowledges that what happened (no details) won't happen again... you have a get together with both boys and their parents...

You say to the other boy "Hi Johnny."

The other boy parents say "Hi" to your boy.

"Do you two guys want things to get back the way they used to be?"

"Good! That's what we want, too. We're all going to go back to the way things were supposed to be (not mentioning any details)."

"Agreed???"

And you stop treating the other boy like a criminal.

If the boys value their friendship, and it seems they do, the LAST thing they would want to do is repeat what happened.

They're just gonna be glad it's all over.

Best, Dan

[Greegor]

Dan, Even if the child isn't charged as an abuser,
Won't the agency see the incident as a "failure to protect"
and wouldn't they see re-exposure as "failure to protect"?

I see the children have been marked as juvenile agressors.
How can they mark the kids (even the third one!) this
way if they are following the law?

Why do you keep thinking that the agencies follow
their own rules and laws, or that attorneys work
such miracles for families? You know better.

[Frustrated]

And also, they always watch these stuff, they love sexual abuse cases more than the rest because it costs more next to "Special Needs Children". ADHD< ADD< AND such Children costs more as it is classified as Special Needs Children. CPS watches these kinds of Children. But they love perfect healthy babies as well, next to newborns because it is money to be made for Adoptions automatically.

I cannot really understand how can CPS remove a baby that is only 3 days old? How can that be seen as Mother being neglectful in those three days in the Hospital? There was no chance being seen as such, CPS are just frivilous taking babies like that just

"because" they know they need newborns more than older Children.

Anyways, How much money do you make? It does make a difference. CPS most likely target Families who makes $15,000 to $30,000. Anything over that, they leave those People alone. If you are making more than $30,000, probably the more reason they leave you alone, because they "checked" your records and don't see anything but the fact they saw you make lots of money which would pay alot of money to Lawyers to win the case instanteously. They target poorer families so they know they cannot strike back and they will LOSE.

Or maybe the fact you already had a Therapist, it is seen you already seeked "HELP" so there is nothing they can do for you. If you never had HELP for your son, that could send up red flags for them to impose "Service Plans" for you to get Counselling FROM THEM. But since you already have a Therapist, which is a
"Service" which is not associated with CPS, there is nothing they can do about it. THAT is why they don't want it be brought up in Court because the Judge is going to see that you already seeked HELP and already obtained "Services" from a third party private organization.

They always look at Income, School records (chance they already checked your Kid's school records which does not show any problems? , they check your jobs, they check your income taxes, and such...they check everything. so that is why they see nothing pops up and you are making more money so they thought they better leave you alone. The Other Neighbours who already have CPS cases with them probably is more poorer than you and they are already victimized. Best to leave them alone. They already went through hell already.

But there is "Failure to protect" , you gotta watch these days, the CPS ARE WATCHING BOTH SIDES without you knowing, of course! But most likely they are WATCHING THEM, rather than you. So don't worry. Because they said there is nothing being done with you, because your records are "clean", so don't make any slip ups or make any mistakes, because they are watching. Your name is in their case files for further reference. You can bet they will come back 2 years later or a year later, that depends if your income is above or below. They target poorer families mostly.

[Dazeemay]

We have gotten off track of what the original poster was asking.
I hope we have not lost Zonie with our posts. My apologies to you Zonie if this is not where you wanted to go
Being as it is now going this way I thought all of you might want to read just what happens to young children concerning sex.

Janet Boeldt is a retired grandmother who lives in Indianapolis. A few years ago, she was enjoying a vacation with her husband when she learned that her fourteen-year-old grandson had been arrested as a child molester. The news was devastating, and Janet found herself drawn into a battle that has since consumed much of her time and energy. She quickly learned that children as young as age six are being arrested as sex offenders. These children are doing the same type of things that previous generations did. They were disciplined by their parents and hopefully learned their lesson. Today, kids and their families enter into the juvenile court system to begin a seemingly endless and excruciating journey. Although Janet's grandson is now free of the system, she continues to work to bring about changes in the law so that other families will not have to go through this ordeal. Janet is an active member of FACES (Families And Children Exploited Sexually) and can be reached at
[email protected]

[zonie]

Thank you everyone. I have not checked for replys in a couple of days. You all have been great. Thank you for your opinions.

Yes, we spoke with the parents. This was partially so that I could get their take on the whole issue, and find out their thought process. They say both boys are responsible (I don't) and they seem to think it's childs-play and no big deal. I think it's wrong and twisted.

Failure to protect. I don't ever want anyone to think that I failed to protect becuase I allowed the boys to be friends. I know the loss of his friend is tough, but I can't think that this will be forgotten, and life will move on. I need to protect my son from this sort of thing ever happening again. The trust is no longer there.

What the boys did was beyond normal for their age group. The fact that it was repeated was also outside of what's considered normal. I was told by another one of the neighbor's children after the fact that this boy has done this sort of thing before, was caught, taught, and punished. Yet he does it again? Who's to say he won't give it another try when our guards are let down? Apparently, the problem wasn't fixed before. Could it be fixed with just my son and the other boy? Who knows. I'm not sure I'm willing to take that chance. It's not like I haven't talked to my son about saying "no", about inappropriate touching, about "bathing suit parts" and such. I've bought the books, we've had the discussions, etc., yet this still happened. It's kinda' scarry!

[Dazeemay]

What the boys did was beyond normal for their age group

If that is the case and this boy has repeated the act many times then it is not going to end unless the boy gets help.

I believe that today children are more exposed to sex than I was as a child. We did not have tv, magazines, etc. exposing it 24/7. It was all hidden so to speak. Now everything is out in the open.

Here is an article talking about the increase of rape in our schools.

http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/djglp/ ... n12p33.htm

It is no longer a passing curiosity among children in this day and age.

[Dan Sullivan]

What the boys did was beyond normal for their age group. The fact that it was repeated was also outside of what's considered normal. I was told by another one of the neighbor's children after the fact that this boy has done this sort of thing before, was caught, taught, and punished. Yet he does it again?

Sounds like it's the time to end the friendship.

And politely worn your neighbors to keep a watchful eye on their kids.

Best, Dan

[zonie]

Sounds like it's the time to end the friendship.

And politely worn your neighbors to keep a watchful eye on their kids.

Best, Dan[/quote]

Thank-you Dan. I have notified the neighbors who have small children.

[Dan Sullivan]

Sounds like it's the time to end the friendship.

And politely worn your neighbors to keep a watchful eye on their kids.

Best, Dan

Thank-you Dan. I have notified the neighbors who have small children.

Are there any small pets in the neighborhood you're worried about?

I don't care who ya are, that's funny.

(but in poor taste)

Best, Dan

[Greegor]

When you talked to the neighbor kids family,
did they mention that he had previous trouble
with gay sex at age 9?

Not only is the pervy neighbor kid on track
to be a child rapist, but you own son has just
been initiated in that track as well.

The chances of your own kid becoming a
child rapist have just gone WAY up.

It's not a guarantee, but a high risk that
such an experience will lead to that.

LOTS of child molestors started out
in your sons situation, being a victim.

CPS even wrongly presumes that ALL
victims like your son will be a molestor.

Your son is now predisposed to having trouble
with CPS cases on him later in life.

Not EVERY case results in the
victim becoming a perpetrator.