Next Step ?

[truluv]

Hey guys !

Me and my wife currently are involved with CPS with allegations being made about us, which are completely false !!! Unfortunately the CPS worker pulled our son outta school and interviewed him with NO ONE PRESENT ! After following your advice we decided to err on the side of caution and get guardianship done, got all our docs together etc... We filed that at the school along with our sons reverse miranda rights. At Which time his teacher objected to.. (hmmm wonder where the allegations came from?) Setup an interview with the CPS AGENT outside our home at the end of our driveway. We video taped the interview with HIS permission. HE told us he interviewed our child and found him to be clean, happy, smart, and not in immenent danger in ANY way on tape !!! So I asked him then why are you here ???????? He told us he just had to inspect the home ????? why ???? Anyway, we elected to exersize our 4th amendment rights and not let him in. He also tried to get us to sign the services form, and tell us that we have been advised of our rights according to our states statutes. He said he game me the statutes, which he did NOT.. and then back peddled and said "OH i must have forgot to bring that form!" uh huh... now keep in mind this is on VIDEO record and well as a 3rd party witness who also served as the camera man. The witness asked the agent if he was qualified to be a bug inspector, building inspector, safetly inspector etc... and what his educational credentials were etc.. he basically told us he was authoried but not qualified..hmmmm now... after all this he told us he had to go back and talk to his supervisor, and that she had 35+ years of experience on what to do next. Whisch we knew was gonna happen next. We get a call the next day saying that his supervisor asked him to try and setup another day to let him in so he can inspect and close the case.... Man these people are nuts !! Are they above the law ???

What should we expect next etc.. ? By the way we did NOT tell the cps agent that we already tranfered guardianship. Should we have ? Or do we wait and tell em AFTER the threats get bigger etc.. ???

Thanks,
Loving family in AZ

[Dan Sullivan]

Man these people are nuts !!

Many are.

Are they above the law ???

They think so.

What should we expect next etc.. ? By the way we did NOT tell the cps agent that we already tranfered guardianship. Should we have ? Or do we wait and tell em AFTER the threats get bigger etc.. ???

Thanks,
Loving family in AZ

Don't reveal anything till it's to YOUR advantage to reveal it.

If there wasn't any truth to the accusation... and the CW found nothing wrong... there wouldn't be a service plan for you to sign.

What was the accusation?

Have you rec'd any paperwork from CPS yet?

Tell the CW you want all the information they have for you in writing so you can discuss it with your attny... so there won't be any misunderstandings.

Do you have a copy of the services plan?

What were the services CPS wanted you to do?

Best, Dan from NY

[Bob_Lynn]

You did extremely well Truluv. You must have been through some of these anti-CPS websites because few people would know how to handle themselves in such a situation.

I agree with Dan, don't tell them anything unless it's to your advantage and preferably, don't tell them anything period unless they have a warrant or court order. Continue to exercise your 4th Amendment rights. Do not let them into your house and don't sign anything.

In terms of the letter you sent to the school, the teacher's objection to it are irrelevant. You have every right to file such a letter with the school. I hope you have a certified mail receipt.

I'm not sure what you can expect next because no 2 caseworkers or CPS agencies are the same. I can tell you that based on what you already posted, you can probably expect them to violate the law...again. It's possible they will leave you alone because you've already made it clear to them you're not going to be an easy mark. They absolutely hate dealing with that, there's much easier prey out there for them to victimize.

Great job, I'm sure most of us wish we had done the same as you. Keep us posted.

[Dazeemay]

Do as Bob and Dan have said. Wait until you have the right timing to reveal the guardianship papers.

This is what we did.

Our lawyer called their lawyer and their supervisor and told them we would meet them at their offices and discuss the matter. They were not too happy, but did agree to it.

That is when my daughter and her lawyer revealed her guardianship papers, her right to be a parent laws, her constitutional rights and the fact that they broke the law going to the school to talk with our granddaughter.

The school had had so many problems with CPS that they had a policy that no agent from their dept was to contact a student without going through their procedures.

Schools can write their own policies and this one did.

We did not find out until months later that our case was closed before it actually opened. Those are the words of an agent not on our case told our daughter.

You have made my day. Thank you for posting this info.

[truluv]

If there wasn't any truth to the accusation... and the CW found nothing wrong... there wouldn't be a service plan for you to sign.

There was SOME truth to the accusations. But embelished to sound BAD. Our sons class has been studying bugs in school and the diffrent stages of an insects life and our son told em all about what he knew of roaches. Now keep in mind he also told the class how to get rid of em. now having said that, what was said was that we had a roach problem and our son was found to be dirty and smelly in school which is a LIE ! we have witnesses at the school to testify to the fact if needed. The schools principal even said to us "oh you have nothing to worry about, we even have homeless kids going to school here and cps hasnt taken them away" to which i replied "maybe so, but have you ever called cps on them ?" of course no answer. We gleened enough information to figure out where it came from. One thing i didnt wanna mention is we are on the PTA board, and not long ago an incident occured that involved the pta president, who has steped down. This person and our sons 2 teachers are best friends. We have PROOF of all that. Including what happened with the PTA. We just feel so betrayed at this point. We gave our time freely to that school and more directly as teachers assistants in thier classrooms FOR FREE for 2 years !!! as soon as one of us went back to work and the pta thing happened WAMMO we get hit with a CPS investigation. I tell ya I will NEVER be that nieve again ! Our son got in trouble at school the VERY NEXT DAY strike one ! 3 and and he is suspened ! He got that for talking in class. I asked him if others in class were talking he said yes, i asked did they get a strike one? NO ! So now we know he has to leave that school. But where to put him the school year is almost up ! We have him enroled in a charter school next year. One he was going to prior to that public school. Lesson learned I guess. I know it could happen there too, but probably less likely.

Only mistake i think we made so far is that intially I thought.. " we have nothing to hide let em in" and on our 1st contact with CPS on the phone i told em we were remodeling and the kitchen cabinets were going to be pulled, which we felt was the source of a roach problem. In the services form he wrote "eliminate roach problem, and inspect home for safety issues. WHO said there was some safety concerns ??? He himself said he didnt feel our son was in immenit danger ? so shouldnt a reciept of a commercial pest control company be enough ? By the way my wife is already ready to crack and let em in. I'm still not so sure. Also we really are in various stages of remodel. HE KNOWS THAT he told us he has been in other homes that were being remodeled and all he did was offer PLANS as to keep kids safe during the remodel. Now when i hear the word PLAN or SERVICES I immediately think... uh oh red flag its a trap. Am I over reacting here ??? or should i just keep em at bay long enough and finish our remodel that way they have nothing to complain about if/when they do get in ?

By the way our son is living with his guardian and its is breaking my wifes heart not to have our son here with us every night. To which I keep trying to re-assure her, better with your dad then those people !!!!! We are still with him every day, do his homework with him, eat dinner OVER there. Bath time etc.. etc.. then pick him up take him to school, pick him up from school, go to baseball practice and games, and start the day over. We are responsible loving parents who got caught up in the system for what ? being DIRECTLY involved with our sons education and supporting the school as well ? An people wonder why society is breaking down. It' a sad state our children are growing up in now days.

Thanks,

Truluv

[Bob_Lynn]

should i just keep em at bay long enough and finish our remodel that way they have nothing to complain about if/when they do get in ?

They can only get in if you let them in or they have a valid warrant or court order. Otherwise, it's my opinion that you need to stand firm on your 4th Amendment right and absolutely refuse them entry. You do not need to prove anything to them, the burden of proof is on them.

Reality is that if you let them in, they will likely see your place in disarray, no matter what your excuse is and start the "deplorable conditions" BS. They are looking for something to get you on and you should not give them an inch.

This is just my opinion based on everything I've learned, take it or leave it.

[Greegor]

Truluv:
The bureaucrats are trying to con you out of your
4th Amendment right against an unreasonable search.
As I think you KNOW, they absolutely do NOT
have any right to inspect your home without
your permission.
The videotape of the lies is precious!
They want to inspect your home precisely
BECAUSE they have nothing, and they hope
they can FIND something or else check off
a box on a bureaucratic form.

As far as I am concerned, EVERY home inspection
is a FRAUD since the agency deliberately
has NO STANDARDS for a home inspection.

My family is going through something similar
at this very moment, where the caseworkers
privately admit they HAVE NO CASE!

From a rough court pleading I typed yesterday:

"1. Even though THEIR OWN CONTRACTOR advised
DHS to provide us with standards for a home
inspection in February of 2001, and even though
DHS and Juvenile Court have refused to provide us
with STANDARDS for a home inspection, DHS
continues to ask for permission to do a home
inspection. Now the agency admits they just don't
HAVE ANY STANDARDS, and yet still ask to do a
home inspection. DHS doesn't want to produce
any such standards for fear that anything they
see that is bad but not specified in the standards
cannot be used against us in court.

In other words they don't want to comply with
the meaning and intent of the Fourth
Amendment to the US Constitution in the Bill
of Rights. Particularly, the right against a
search warrant lacking in SPECIFICS."

What will they try next, TruLuv?
They may try a "court order for a home inspection".
We had one served on us in June of 2002.
We had been asking for the STANDARDS for
a home inspection from early on. We stated
that we cannot meet standards that do not exist.

Without satisfying this prerequisite the court
issued a court order for a home inspection.
It was stamped June 11th, received a few days
later, and was set to take place June 26 at 3PM.
They ordered me out of my own home
during the home inspection.
The caseworker had only weeks before
written up a malicious complaint but it
was so stupid that she seriously discredited herself.

We had every reason to expect this home
inspection to be a malicious abuse.

Upon reflection we realized this home inspection
was a search warrant with a bogus name,
and looking up search warrants we realized
that a search warrant lacking in specifics
is in fact an illegal search warrant.

My SO quickly filed a motion asking for
STANDARDS for a home inspection and pointing
out that without standards the "home inspection"
was actually a SEARCH WARRANT in disguise and
ILLEGAL because it lacked specifics.

The Judge refused to fix it anyway, presumed
wrongly that we owned a video camera and
intended to video record the inspection.
(Maybe they ordered me out to hamper
video taping?)

But the Judge stated something about the
video tape being enough to make up for
the lack of standards. (Nonsense!)

Unforseen circumstances came up, making
it look like we were going to have to move,
which rescued us from the inspection.
We got lucky.

But NOTICE how perfectly willing they were
to do what they should know is illegal.

When we first asked for the STANDARDS for a home
inspection, we actually thought they had some!
Later we found out that we had inadvertently
preserved a legal issue whereby a search warrant
would be illegal for lack of specifics.

TruLuv, I strongly urge you to file a Federal
Civil Rights law suit under chapter 42 Section
1983 and that video tape would be precious.
You can't sue the agency or the state, but you
can sue all of the individuals, that idiot, his
supervisor, all the way up the chain of command
to the state director of that agency.
Skip the lawyer, do it yourself, "pro se".
Have you ever written a research paper?

Go after half a million, money is what those
agency nitwits pay attention to.
DO NOT under any circumstances agree to
any sort of non-disclosure as part of the
settlement. Make it PUBLIC!
Make the footage PUBLIC!

Break their balls.

Could you get the tape converted to an internet
format like an MPEG movie, portable and
reproduceable? Most DVD players and
all computers can play those.

Then it could easily be submitted
to ALL Congress critters and especially
the Ways and Means committee.
(Follow the money!)

[truluv]

Thanks BOB i think i pretty much know the answer but wanted some advice anyway to re-assure me I plan to keep on fixing the house keep em at bay, and let em spend THIER money trying to get in. We are VERY early in this investigation. only 5 days have passed sinse this ALL started. We have been working on the house at a feverish pitch to get it all done. We have been sent NO paper work by CPS and was told that to get a copy of the report we would have to do it in writting. We have signed NOTHING and never will when it comes to CPS. They will have to MAKE me do everything from here on out. Ya know, one thing i forgot to mention. We tried to get a retainer and NO ONE wanted to touch it. What we were told was that they (attorneys) have an even more difficult time with cps then WE WOULD. So we will keep on doing what we must i guess. Our plan is to fix the house, sell it and move on.

Thanks,

Truluv

[Dan Sullivan]

If there wasn't any truth to the accusation... and the CW found nothing wrong... there wouldn't be a service plan for you to sign.

There was SOME truth to the accusations. But embelished to sound BAD. Our sons class has been studying bugs in school and the diffrent stages of an insects life and our son told em all about what he knew of roaches. Now keep in mind he also told the class how to get rid of em. now having said that, what was said was that we had a roach problem and our son was found to be dirty and smelly in school which is a LIE !

A report was made because you once had a roach problem???

This is one of the most ridiculous allegations I've ever heard.

Especially since CPS used it to remove your son!!!!

You should send a return receipt letter to the Commissioner of DSS (or whatever it's called in your area) and tell him that your under investigation by CPS for once having a roach problem, which you no longer have, and that your son was removed by CPS because of it.

You also state that an insect problem is NOT child abuse or neglect and CPS should NEVER have accepted the report for investigation.

This investigation is a total waste of CPS' time and the taxpayer's money.

And you want the case closed as unfounded and your son returned to your legal and physical custody immediately.

Best, Dan

[Dazeemay]

By the way our son is living with his guardian and its is breaking my wifes heart not to have our son here with us every night. To which I keep trying to re-assure her, better with your dad then those people !!!!!

Perhaps it would help her if she read of all of the cases where cps took the children and the parents have been without them for months and years.

You did the right thing with the guardianship.

When we were threatened the second time, in the middle of the night, our grandchildren had to be rousted out of bed and brought to our home. Meanwhile on the trip to our home the children were in a state of fear that a policeman would stop them. They only live a mile away and that was the longest mile in their lives.

One of our granddaughters had been incarcerated by them, we have her back now, but not without a lot of emotional damage to all 3 children.

[truluv]

Dan our son wasn't removed from our custody !!! but your right. They did start the investigation based on statements made by my son of a PREVIOUS roach problem. We know where the roach problem lies. We have 30+ year old kitchen cabinets that are deteriating. We were removing them anyway. But now this just made us have to spend moeny sooner then we had planned to get rid of the problem. I can't express enough the support you guys have given me thus far. AMAZING ! and in regards to your lawsuit question, we have been thinking about that anyway. We know where it came from and why. It was malicious in its intent. No doubt about it. And we have PROOF in writing. including minutes from the PTA meetings, as well as slanderous emails etc... all proven false before the PTA board. Keep in mind the PTA president stepped down ! The person accusing us of wrong doing was was in fact doing wrong herself trying to pin the blame on us. Too bad we kept EXCELLENT records

Thanks,

Truluv

[Momoffor]

all I can say is wow! Way to go for having all the ducks in a row hehe. poo on them.

And btw, they always say they need to talk to their supervisor about whatever when they dont know the answer to something, or you caught them in a lie.

[Greegor]

The PTA president did this to divert from
their own problems with CPS?

Do you live in Harper Valley?

[Dan Sullivan]

Dan our son wasn't removed from our custody !!! but your right. They did start the investigation based on statements made by my son of a PREVIOUS roach problem.

A roach problem isn't anything CPS should be involved in.

Unless the house is filthy.

ESPECIALLY if there aren't any more roaches!!!

Should CPS removed children when a raccoon moves under their porch?

Squirrels in the attic?

Lady bugs!

I want to see children removed for Lady Bug infestation!!!!!

Termites?

How bout the wrong kind of pets?

Snapping turtle?

A shark in a fishtank!

Seriously, even tho you did have roaches... the allegation never should have been accepted for investigation.

So partially true or not, CPS is jusr spinning their wheels.

[truluv]

Well,

It's been a little while now, and we kept standing our ground with cps. The case worker stopped talking to me and started calling my wife pressing her to let him in. We just didn't return his calls. Then the other day he shows up when im on my way to work. He steps out of his car, and immediately tells me "you don't have to let me in, i'ts gonna get closed anyway!" He procedes to tell me that the case is gonna get unsubstantiated, and we should get a letter in the mail soon telling us its closed. He also told me not many people stand up to them, and how rare it was. I told him I understand, and that we just didnt want any government involvement in our lives etc.. ect.. he was polite, we shook hands and wished each other the best of luck. He also told me to be aware if there was ANOTHER report that things would get tough. As you can imagine, i'm still hopefully optomistic, but holding on tight to the video evidence we have against THEM and learned a very valuable lesson in all this. Hopefully this will be the end of it. I'll keep you guys posted as to when we get an official CASE CLOSED letter.

Thanks for all your help and support !!!!

Truluv

[dasuberding]

WAY TO GO! It sounds like you did everything right. A text book case on how to stand up to these criminals and chances are you probably have a case against them. The more parents educate themselves on how to fight this corruption, the farther information is spread, little by little the "power" of CPS is being eroded and soon enough they will not be able to go anywhere without scron and contempt thrown at them.

[Dazeemay]

This is great.

Keep that guardianship in effect. Make sure you always check back to see if they have stopped us from doing the guardianship.

He also told me to be aware if there was ANOTHER report that things would get tough

That sounds like a threat. Almost like they have something up their sleeve.

[truluv]

Well,

finally some good news. Go my case unsubstatiated, case closed letter yesterday. I can't thank you guys here enough for the help on all this. If anyone is reading this that is new and wants to know if what you guys say works. It does. I can't stress enough the importance of having video tape evidence at the initial CPS visit.

Our next step is to petition the court to have our names removed from the child abuse registry.

Good luck to you all and god bless !!!

Truluv

[Dazeemay]

Please post your good news on this link called the Happy Endings forum.

This is to encourage others and give them hope.

http://forum.fightcps.com/viewforum.php ... 1e0a135e9b

CONGRATULATIONS!!

[Greegor]

Truluv:
Did they ever put you ON the child abuse registry?
You would have gotten a document stating that
they put you on it.

On the other hand, some states have operated so
illegally that they put people on the registry
without telling them.

The agencies have been getting slapped for that,
but I wouldn't be surprised if a few states are
still failing to notify.

Call the same caseworker and ask, on tape.
Are you in a "one party state" for recording phone calls?

Even if state doesn't allow one party taping,
some of those DO allow it when interacting
with government agents.

I know for a fact that more people
won't let them in without a warrant.
I also know it has stopped cases cold.

They had better get used to it!
They're gonna hear it more and more!

[splizzrinkle]

1. Sign this > http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeacti ... 1153389795

2. Forget typing on your keyboard.

3.When this day arrives, put everything else to the side and get ready to rumble!