Lost My Daughter to CPS, Now what?

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lillypad
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Lost My Daughter to CPS, Now what?

Postby lillypad » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:40 pm

Hello i am new here, i am 22 years old and have a 2 year old baby girl who btw is deaf. anyways children services got involed because someone called in saying our house was messy, which it was, long story short we were goin to be having a team for 6 months, it was to soon end but now for some unreal reason they decided it wasnt working and took my daughter, we have a hearing on mon . i dunno what to do because we cant afford a lawyer, but legal aid says we make too much what should i do :shock: :shock:

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Dazeemay
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Postby Dazeemay » Sat Apr 23, 2005 8:13 pm

It breaks my heart that you have to be here.

You have the right to a court appointed attorney.

They are not much help but, perhaps you will get appointed a good one.

Right now that is all you can do at this point.

Call the court house and get one the first thing Monday morning. They will give you his/her name and then you call him and tell him the court house gave you his name. And be sure to tell him that you need an extension. Doing this hopefully will give you some time to read as much as possible on this site to help yourself get a handle on all of this. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Never reveal your name or your child's name. Don't state where you are from because CPS workers roam these forums.

There is a lot more to be done but, this is what you have to do first.
**********************************
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom

To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).

Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour

"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1

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Roni Shawn
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Postby Roni Shawn » Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:16 pm

I must say tho, that I tried like hell to get one, and could NOT, because I had no criminal charges against me. So if you dont have any, then they will NOT give you one. Check out the websites forum. There are some websites there that may be of some help to you. GOOD LUCK....
God is my light...My Strength...My LIFE!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I thought CPS was created to help keep families together, not rip them apart!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Roni Shawn :)

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good dad
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hi

Postby good dad » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:52 am

It depends on what state your in lily, as far as what Roni said.....Some states appoint you one, some won't..But just because they appoint you one doesn't mean they are worth very much..It is better to learn the laws and how to use "the law" to fight FOR you.

If you dive into the law...You only have 1 case to learn,YOURS, and you know all the "facts" already,CPS has so many cases open and the district attorney has so many open that they make mistakes in every case,take the time to document each mistake and find how the law supports your side of it...

A "cluddered" home has been ruled on by a federal judge as it is not grounds to take a child away, so there is presidence in your case.

How close were you to completing the 6 month caseplan and what were the new "allegations"?
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A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

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Dazeemay
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Postby Dazeemay » Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:06 am

Thanks Good_Dad and Roni,

I did not know that they didn't have to give you one.

If she can't get a court appointed attorney then wouldn't the next best thing to do is file an extension?
**********************************
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom

To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).

Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour

"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1

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pebbles04
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Re: hi

Postby pebbles04 » Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:14 pm

good dad wrote:It depends on what state your in lily, as far as what Roni said.....Some states appoint you one, some won't..But just because they appoint you one doesn't mean they are worth very much..It is better to learn the laws and how to use "the law" to fight FOR you.

If you dive into the law...You only have 1 case to learn,YOURS, and you know all the "facts" already,CPS has so many cases open and the district attorney has so many open that they make mistakes in every case,take the time to document each mistake and find how the law supports your side of it...

A "cluddered" home has been ruled on by a federal judge as it is not grounds to take a child away, so there is presidence in your case.

How close were you to completing the 6 month caseplan and what were the new "allegations"?


hey can I ask you something...you said something about that a "cluttered home" has been ruled on by a federal judge as it is not grounds to take a child away. So where did you get that information cuz that is the main excuse they use on me....even though they added in some lies when it came to the report submitted to the appealant court...
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**
(that is my quote)

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good dad
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Postby good dad » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:12 pm

Walsh v. Erie County Dept. of Job and Family Services, 3:01-cv-7588: “There is nothing inherently unusual about cluttered premises, much less anything that could manifest imminent or even possible danger or harm to young children. If household ‘clutter’ justifies warrant less entry and threats of removal of children and arrest or citation of their parents, few families are secure and few homes are safe from unwelcome and unjustified intrusion by state officials and officers”.


For the link:

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf
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A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

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pebbles04
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Postby pebbles04 » Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:55 pm

good dad wrote:Walsh v. Erie County Dept. of Job and Family Services, 3:01-cv-7588: “There is nothing inherently unusual about cluttered premises, much less anything that could manifest imminent or even possible danger or harm to young children. If household ‘clutter’ justifies warrant less entry and threats of removal of children and arrest or citation of their parents, few families are secure and few homes are safe from unwelcome and unjustified intrusion by state officials and officers”.


For the link:

http://www.connecticutdcfwatch.com/8x11.pdf


I wonder if it is like that in every state cuz I live in va..and that is the reason that they took my kids...I mean given they tried to use other excuses as to why but those came later...the stuff they took them for was that and then they said that my son was sodomized and they did research that and unfounded that yet they use that still in court and then they also keep bringing up other things that were not originally on the order..but I do not get the good enough attornies....
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**

(that is my quote)

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good dad
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hi

Postby good dad » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:25 pm

All states have to follow federal guidelines or they don't get there "federal money", but each states "tweeks" the way they follow them, a little bit.

The Erie case was in New York? i think..look for sure at www.findlaw.com and see if your states are in the same federal district.


YOU SAID
"they said that my son was sodomized and they did research that and unfounded that yet they use that still in court"

Everytime they bring that up in court, object to it, outloud,say that the research has shown otherwise...that this never happened, and CPS continues to try to use this against you..

This goes back to: The tool of process that people need to understand that works in the court is that the most basic court rule is that undisputed testimony becomes FACT in the record. In other words, when you make the record of things they are doing to you, and you write it IN your papers and SAY IT in the court when you are in court, then they KNOW that they have to dispute your facts or else your facts become the "legal facts" in the case.

If you never dispute this to the JUDGE, whatever they say goes on as case fact

The games they play are all centered on the record and controlling it. So when you get your discovery, the other side of you making the record of your side, you will see the lies they are spinning in fabricated documents and reports to use against you to make money for their agency and to use against you and your children....

This came from a a article at:
http://www.avoiceforchildren.com/docume ... r_case.htm
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

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pebbles04
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Postby pebbles04 » Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:38 pm

Well I had told them that and sometimes the judge wouldnt let me talk which I think that the judge was in on it too...a lot of people tell me I am full of it but yet when I explain to them that it should look funny to any courts that some woman had her kids taken from her and that she has been fighting them...but the thing is that there is no evidence to support her case but all kinds to support theirs...I think that the attorney that was on my case was also on their hence none of my documents managed to get into the court record...I have plenty of stuff it just was never entered in...as I am finding this out NOW from the fact that it is so high in the courts..I dont know what can be done at this point if anything...I cant seem to find the right means of information to get them...the judge in juvenile domestic and relations allowed all the hearsay...and I honestly dont know where to go from here other then to file suit to make sure that they pay for their violating my rights...constitionally and civil....but it is okay...I am going to get somewhere hopefully....thanks for trying to shine some light..or to help me in some way..if you want to talk to me it might be easier through email... [email protected]
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**

(that is my quote)

lillypad
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Postby lillypad » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:08 pm

yes pebbles iknow the feeling, the case worker and the judge today acting like they were BESTFRIENDS! lol that isnt fair, but they said that my mother in law should get temp custody BUT my baby is still in FOSER care

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pebbles04
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Postby pebbles04 » Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:36 pm

They never even gave my family a chance to have my kids..even when they have gone to court to try to fight for them they try to find something wrong with them...anything to keep them with the foster parents to get money to put in their funds...I think it is sickening....I to this day think that they are not going to bother to give them to my family..they tried to get my sister to actually become a foster parent through the city office...I laughed at that one....
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**

(that is my quote)

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good dad
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Postby good dad » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:51 pm

Have your sister become a foster parent and then after she has the kid(s) have her tell the judge in court she doesn't want to be any part of CPS....

CPS will have a hard time taking the kids back from her after they put them in her care..

Kinda using reverse psychology on them :D
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

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pebbles04
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Postby pebbles04 » Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:08 pm

See the problem with that is that it is already at supreme court..and I dont think that is an option anymore..my mom said that after they finalize the adoption if it goes that far which by the looks of it it will..then she can still file for custody...cuz then she would fighting the foster parents and not the state...They also told my family that if my rights were terminated then so were theirs..I always thought that in order for you to terminate the rights of the grandparents you had to specifically do that..and the reason I say that is cuz they had to seperately terminate the fathers...so why not the grandparents...so I am not sure what can or can not be done now....the other problem is I am not as fortunate as most of these people on here...the help is good...and I appreciate it..but why cant I find anything on them...or find any means or resources...that is why I am so frustrated..like the ombudsman...is that something I can use...my friend told me that the ombudsman is just for military people..and that is why I am afraid I am never going to find someone that can help me..the media will do a story but not unless someone else talks to her and they wont talk to her...so I am not sure what route to take anymore..I am low income but I cant find an attorney to take on social services...even with money alot of attornies dont want to take on the case..but especially hard to find one that will take a lawsuit that is through some legal services or something..I want to be able to find new resources...lol...but I really appreciate your help...
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**

(that is my quote)

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Roni Shawn
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Postby Roni Shawn » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:45 am

Gosh Pebbles... I know EXACTLY how you feel, about attorneys and such. Been battling that in my head for soooo darn long now. As far as the Ombudsman, they are a part of the state. They are where you make complaints to, ABOUT the state and their actions. They investigate THEM. So, no, they are not just for military personnel. Give em a call. I however, have had no luck with them, simply because child welfare made my case into a custody issue, rather than a child welfare issue. So that is where I am screwed. The children were given to their father, and Child welfare would NEVER listen to me, about what I know of the father and step monster, nothing. Not even listen to my childrens complaints. BUT the children always complained to me, not them. But when they FINALLY complained to their counselor, guess what? It STILL was not believed, because I was supposedly telling the children to complain about their situation and make it all up. That is a total and utter lie, and GOD KNOWS it. So I am just going to have to sit back and let my children be mistreated by this so called step mother, until I can get the proper help I guess. I dono....But anyway, I would give them a call Pebbles. They MAY be able to help your situation. You never know until you call. Also, get ahold of the citizen review board. They SHOULD have a direct email link on the legislature page of your state. If you cant find it, then tell me where you are, and maybe I can for you...have a good day!
God is my light...My Strength...My LIFE!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I thought CPS was created to help keep families together, not rip them apart!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Roni Shawn :)

MsHeather
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Postby MsHeather » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:58 pm

pebbles-- I apologize that I do not know the specifics of your case... if your parental rights were severed-- the next in line to family reunficiation should be adoption by a relative (depending upon the age of the child). Why did they not pursue adoption by the grandparents or other relatives? Are the grandparents not in a position to care for the children? You can't discriminate against people for adoption based soley on age. In Arizona-- before the adoption goes through-- family members have be ruled out if the children are not being adopted by family members. I would recommend having the grandparents contact in writing all the parties in the case and the judge to notify them of their desire to pursue adoption.

lilypad-- a dirty house is not enough to remove children. However, they do look closely at the age of the child. This is just because small children (infants/toddlers) tend to put everything in their mouths-- and their curious nature places them at risk when exploring a house that may have items in their reach that are unsafe should them be ingested. I've seen some homes with broken glass, crack pipes, drugs within reach, animal feces, etc. and they did remove those small children-- but it was primarily because of their young age. I also recall a case where the family stopped taking out the garbage and the house was totally flooded with garbage. The house ended up being condemed by the city it was so bad. In those situations-- they alleged that the dirty house was proof that the children were being neglected because the conditions were deplorable. Obviously-- your situation is nowhere near these extremes. I would just recommend that you try to work with your caseworker and lawyer to make sure they know how committed you are to get your kid back. Request that your caseworker complete visits with you in your home that she can see how you are attempting to keep your house clean. If she refuses-- talk to her supervisor. Also-- make sure to ask her specifically if she/he has any concerns with your house right now-- that way you aren't surprised if his/her only concern is you don't have outlet covers or you keep the cleaning supplies under the sink. I think it is only fair that you know exactly what "they think" is wrong so you can try to fix what "they think" is the problem. If no one is fair enough to tell you the rules--- it will just make it harder to win your case. If you are having trouble talking with the caseworker--- I would try to come up with your own list of things that you think you may need to improve (for your house) or rather come up with the list of what you have fixed for your house. Review this with the caseworker. Ask her/him if there are any other concerns they have regarding the health/safety of your house---- and get them to sign your little list that these were the only concerns presented. It may be as a caseworker-- the caseworker just wants you to be able to maintain the house for a period of time-- and if that is the case-- have him/her put this in writing. These are just ideas-- hope it can help.

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pebbles04
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Ms. Heather

Postby pebbles04 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:15 pm

In pertains to your comment...no my family is quite equipped to take my kids and have them...it is not that they didnt want to or did not fit the criteria..it is that social services didnt want them to so they lied and made up stuff to the judge..that is the only way that it could be possible...in regards to writing letters to the social workers and people involved to let them know that there was an interest in the kids...they did..repeatedly...and if you want me to be honest...well it is a crock cuz my mother sent letters to the judge and to the social workers..took it all the way up to the director and/or coordinator in the state capitol..the regional directors if you want me to be honest..I dont know if that is what they call them all over..when she wrote to the social services department she got no response and what ones she did were very rude..infantile and quite short....and when she wrote the judge...the judge sent her a letter back telling her that it was illegal for her to write to her...which I have been told on many subsequent visits to the courthouse..that if there was something that I did not feel the judge was hearing well then write it in a letter to her...and they would deliver it...it is up to the judge to decide whether they want to read it...they just are bound and determined that they are going to keep my kids..cuz they know that they have foster parents that will take them and adopt them...sorry they are not faultless...even IF they had a situation with me..which is not the case cuz it was BLOWN COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT AND PROPORTION....that is no reason to do that in reference to my mom..sister...or dad....In all actuality..if you want me to be honest...my mom works for the navy...(CIVIL SERVICE) and she has worked through alot of people...they know her very very well....my mom doesnt cuss...she doesnt do drugs and never has..she has not drank since I have been alive..at least not that i have ever seen...she has a perfect driving record...has no criminal charges and has never been accused of abuse or neglect...she has raised 6 of her own kids..5 are of age..and one is one year away from that..so you know what I dont know why they are strictly against my family having them other then to take the funds that they will receive for them...and that is okay because I know I did nothing wrong and I aim to fight them..even if it means court proceedings and lawsuits....you are a cps worker...so what is the answer...when everything in your case is based off of hearsay and there is nothing that you can do to convince the judge otherwise because you had a piss poor attorney that only did just enough to make it look like she was....I ASKED FOR HER TO BE TAKEN OFF....TO NO AVAIL....I mean honestly...you tell me what the answer is cuz I am beginning to run out of directions and answers...which I am thinking that they want it that way....PLEASE FORGIVE ME ANYONE AS THIS IS LONG...
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**

(that is my quote)

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Dazeemay
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Postby Dazeemay » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:42 pm

We just heard from our attorney and they are not considering us, the grandparents, nor are they considering any of the relatives on either side. All of us are well educated with degrees in fields of engineering, a veteranarian, school teachers, RN's, bank managers, you name it we have it and still we cannot get our granddaughter nor can the aunts and uncles get their niece. Not one of us is considered, not one.

Our attorney is dumbfounded.

This monster knows no bounds. It feeds on every family, nationality, without regard to income, it doesn't matter it wants our "children".

Look at Good_Dad's statistics and if two and two does not make four to you then forget it.

http://forum.fightcps.com/viewtopic.php?t=816
**********************************
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom

To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).

Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour

"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1

MsHeather
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Postby MsHeather » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:53 pm

For Pebbles:
Adoption laws are generally state laws and can differ substantially from one state to another. Because state laws regarding adoption differ-- there is no substitute for advice from a competent licensed adoption attorney in your area who is familiar with the legal intricacies of that state.

You need to (actually-- since your rights have been severed-- the grandparents need to) locate a lawyer who has a practice that includes litigation in contested adoptions. How do you find this? You could look in your phone book for adoption lawyers in the legal section and ask if the lawyer has any experience in contested adoption. Another way-- (not as comprehensive because it is through adoption.com) go to http://directory.adoption.com/ This will give you a link to the entire US. For Virginia specifically go to-- http://directory.adoption.com/domestic/Virginia.html

I don't know this person but her is another resource for you who reports that he will offer a free initial consultation:
Adoption Attorney Robert H. Klima toll free (800) 747-8783
phone (703) 361-5051 Representing adoptive families and birth parents in parental placement, step-parent and agency adoptions, throughout Virginia. Practice includes litigation in contested adoptions. Over 25 years experience.

However, what I would recommend is that you contact the Virginia Bar Association. Telephone Number: (804) 775-0808
Nationwide Toll Free Number: 800 552-7977
http://www.vsb.org/vlrs.html
"If you think you have a problem which may require the services of a lawyer, call the Virginia Lawyer Referral Service. Your call will be answered by a referral specialist who will request your name and a brief description of your problem. Based on this information, you will be provided with the name and telephone number of a lawyer in your community who has indicated a particular interest in handling your type of problem. The lawyer will be licensed and a member in good standing with the Virginia State Bar. It will then be your responsibility to call the lawyer to schedule an appointment. If it appears that you do not need a lawyer, you will be directed to an agency that may be able to help. Any information that you provide will be strictly confidential.

Initial and Follow-Up Cost
If you are referred to a lawyer, you will be entitled to consult with him or her for up to one half hour for a fee of $35. You should be prepared to pay the lawyer at the time of your appointment. This initial consultation may answer your questions and enable you to solve your problem. If your problem requires additional time and work, you will be responsible for any additional legal fees. The lawyer you consult will be glad to discuss his or her fees and the cost of services beyond the initial half hour consultation. However, there is no obligation for either you or the lawyer to go beyond the one half hour consultation."

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pebbles04
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ty

Postby pebbles04 » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:04 pm

Well I thank you for at least trying to be of assistance..and I dont say this to be rude..but I dont know who I can trust anymore..when they took my kids that was pretty much it...I learned from someone that they never put them into foster care that they were directly put into adoptive homes...first off....second off my friend for a long at least 10 years was there when they told her (without my being present I might add-which is a breach of confidentiality)...that they were planning on taking the kids like 2 months prior and the lady had met with me like twice...I have asked this girl to go to court for me numorous times but she has always come up with some excuse on why she can not go to court..and I dont want to have her forced to go to court because then she might fight back and lie on me cuz she is irate that she had to go to court anyways...so here is a question from me to you MsHeather...and I want to know this only because I feel like you know that answer considering that you are a worker of some kind...once it goes to supreme court...(which most people should know) it is then placed before the courts to evaluate...am I right or wrong..is there anyway for a parent to contest something and speak with the judges on that panel...or JUDGE..and if not and then I lose (which I am sure I will considering that I have always lost and also cuz there is nothing supporting my case in the file due to lack of an attorney...cuz she just chose not to) can there be anything done after that cuz I dont want to be steered wrong..they said that once the supreme court rules me out then I cant get them back ever cuz it is the last step....and I want to know for sure...reason being...cuz my son begged me numorous times to just take him home and cried and told me he wanted to go home..he even wrote me letters in visitation voicing his concern to come home..the guardian as my son has told me has only been to see my two boys like maybe three or four times..how is that focusing on the best interest....my mom knows her stuff...in fact she knows the legalities of a guardian...she comes in contact with them constantly and asked them about it...so anyways is there anything I can do if a TPR appeal through supreme court has been heard and is denied...?????
*whoever said that there is a honest social worker.?...they are not all totally honest and just because they are workers does not make them invinceable nor 100% honest...**

(that is my quote)

MsHeather
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Postby MsHeather » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:20 pm

For Dazeemay:
North Carolina also has a similar lawyer referral service: http://www.ncbar.org/public/lrs/index.aspx

or-- I would refer you to a grandparent adoption message board at http://forums.adoption.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=976 and post your story-- there may be other grandparents currently adopting their grandchildren that have faced similar challenges.

MsHeather
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Postby MsHeather » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:45 pm

pebbles:
Each state's adoption laws and juvenille system varies. That is why I really recommend that you contact that lawyer in your area. A lawyer is going to know the way your court system works in VA-- and at the state supreme court level-- your voice should come through a lawyer who knows how to work the system. It is unfortunate-- but as many of you have observed-- those who are comfortable with the whole court system (the lawyers and even some of the caseworkers) appear to have a better advantage because they are more prepared because they are better informed of the whole legal process (just because they do it all the time)

There are 2 things going on right now it sounds like with your case. 1.) It sounds like you are appealing the termination of your parental rights. When you say it is going to the supreme court-- it is likely actually the supreme court of Virginia because again parental rights and adoption laws are state-based-- federal provides limited input on rulings but provides federal recommendations for statutes. It may be unlikely that the state supreme court will overturn something a lower court ruled on unless they find a problem with the grounds for severence. (BUT AGAIN_-- REMEMBER I DO NOT KNOW YOUR CASE AND I CAN NOT GIVE LEGAL ADVICE) In the state where I live (Arizona) if the plan for severence is overturned and the court rules that the case plan needs to be changed back to family reunification--- in some ways-- nothing really changes because the child still remains a ward of that state--- and the parent has to participate in services again. But CPS will likely still have the same thoughts/stance regarding the permanency needs of the child. In fact, this too is detrimental for the child because they "remain in the system".
2.) the adoption can't be pursued until technically your termination of parental rights has been finalized but they may be doing a concurrent plan--- starting on the adoption process now but obviously it can't go through until parental rights are terminated. That is why it is important if the grandparents really are in a position to adopt the children and want to-- they they get their own lawyer to assist with contesting the adoption. The reason they have to contest is because you will have no legal grounds to contest if your parental rights have been severed.

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Dazeemay
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Postby Dazeemay » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:51 pm

My granddaughter belongs with her ever loving, caring, wonderful mother.

What right do all of you have to put us in this position based on a lie??????

The lie was found out and DSS could not admit they "goofed." They were dirty enough to go and fabricate more lies.

We have a lawyer thank you very much!! He is a good one but, even he sees the rotten things that are being pulled by DSS.

Excuse me they are not letting us adopt our granddaughter nor are they letting any family member have her. They want her for themselves. Their is nothing humane about how they are looking at her. They do not see a sick child they see double the money. That is all they see.

Our hearts are breaking and all you can tell me is go here or go there.

You never did answer my one question way back.......would you put your life on the line for one child in your department and save them from the destruction of a foster home?

In New Jersey, a former Department of Youth and Family Services (DYFS) caseworker filed a lawsuit last May, alleging he was fired after he refused to falsify his reports toward removing five children from their parents. Michael Spincola’s complaint said that his supervisor told him “children should be taken away from poor parents if they can be better off elsewhere.” The children were taken from their mother, Wykeena Beal, and placed in foster homes where at least one child suffered abuse. Beal’s children were eventually returned to her seven months later, but she has also filed a lawsuit against DYFS. DYFS claims that Spincola was fired because he couldn’t keep up with proper documentation and he failed to “follow a directive.” Both cases are still pending.
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This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom

To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).

Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour

"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1

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good dad
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hmmmmmm

Postby good dad » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:12 pm

MaHeather said:

but as many of you have observed-- those who are comfortable with the whole court system (the lawyers and even some of the caseworkers) appear to have a better advantage because they are more prepared because they are better informed of the whole legal process (just because they do it all the time)

I never witnessed this as most haven't
If I would have listened to my lawyer, I would have signed over custodial rights to my daughter, she said "I didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning, my daughters lawyer agreed with her"

After showing her how they screwed up by"preparing myself for trial". Writing every word down I wanted her to say, down to " I object your honor, as that evidence has never been confirmed"...I now have full custody of my daughter, not because of a lawyer being "fully prepared" or "better informed"... as she stated after," You know your case and the ways CPS operates better then I do"

Now she has asked if I would be interested being a "consultant" on future CPS cases, not because she "has a better advantage being a lawyer"..but because she WANTS to have a better advantage being a lawyer
*********************

My advice is my opinion and not legal advice

*********************

A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....

MsHeather
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Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:29 pm

Postby MsHeather » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:26 pm

Dazeemay:
Does the lawyer represent you.. or your daughter? If you don't want my advice-- you needn't take it. I was just trying to offer suggestions. As you know the juvenille court system rules are very different from the criminal court system. There simply has to be a preponderance of evidence.It does little good to continually deny the allegations in the original petition once the dependency has already been established. This is why people "submit and deny the allegations". I'm sure your daughter's lawyer has advised her of this.

If you-- as the grandmother-- wish to pursue adoption (that was one of your concerns and the reason for my recent response to you because you said you weren't considered as an adoptive placement)-- then you need to contest this as the grandmother. This is a separate issue from the dependency issue within juvenille court.

In regards to CPS policy-- it is true-- the individual CPS worker must follow policy. If policy is not followed and there is harm that comes to the child--- the CPS worker can be terminated. The reason they have policy in place is to protect the child-- what is in the child's best interest. Also-- so there is a standard to the way things are done--- that people aren't just going out there making their own decisions on a whim. There has to be some organization to why CPS makes the decisions it makes.

The CPS worker is not acting out there as an individual-- but represents the entire agency. Yes, I have had to do things or make recommendations in my current position that I did not personally feel was the best thing-- but it is not up to me to make that decision because in my position-- I am representing the agency--- not my individual self-- and therefore the decision to be made is that which is represented by the agency. If I have a problem with the policy as it applies to my particular case-- I have to discuss this at length with my supervisor. We also have policy experts who specialize in certain areas that can advise us if the specifics regarding my particular case warrant enough to disregard the policy.


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