Freedom of Information Act MY ASS!

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Enchanted*Forester
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Freedom of Information Act MY ASS!

Postby Enchanted*Forester » Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:56 pm

I used the document generator to request mine, my husbands and my son's file from DHS. I spoke with the head guy who said it would be fine. I was able to go in and read all of the file and told them that I would like copies of ALL papers contained in them. They said they'd do it at no charge. THEN, I get a letter in the mail with this written on it, and I quote:"Please be advised that your request is denied. Under MCL 15.243, section 13(1)(d) of the FOIA, a public body may exempt from disclosure as a public record under this act: Records or information specifically described and exempted from disclosure by statute.

My biggest question is do I call them and ask if they're still making copies for me and that the letter was just a formality? Why do they get exempt from having to provide MY records? I'm not asking for who turned us in (I already know that.) I just want to have all infomation available to me so I have something substantial to take with me when I sue their sorry asses! Any suggestions?
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away...

Marina
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Postby Marina » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:38 pm

They are giving you a lot of "fresh air."

They know it, that is why they let you look at them, but then took the FOI request literally, only allowing copies of "public" records.

Freedom of Information for public records is different from getting your own confidential records.

In Virginia CPS policy manual, it says an accused or perperpetrator has the right to get their own confidential records. If the perpetrator is not the parent, then the parent can't get information under that category.

See if the state links have information on release of own perpetrator's records.

Disclosure of Confidential Child Abuse and Neglect Records

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/ ... /index.cfm

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Enchanted*Forester
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Thanks for the info

Postby Enchanted*Forester » Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:48 pm

Since I'm the "perp" it looks like I should have access. I will call them on Monday to see if they've even started the copying process. I was hoping to keep my lawyer out of it to save some money, but I'm very willing to make things difficult if they want to play their games, STILL.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away...

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Greegor
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Postby Greegor » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:34 pm

It might be good to go over the differences between the FOIA and the FPA means to get ahold of documents.

One of them actually has some fine print buried
in it that prevents people from using it for purposes
of discovery in anticipation of law suits.

They seem to be complicated enough that
their rules can be interpreted to the advantage
of the agency.

Is there ANY caselaw where somebody took
an agency refusal into a federal court for enforcement?

Marina
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Postby Marina » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:43 pm

This document is very, very good in explaining how things work.

LEGAL BULLETIN
Federal Civil Actions
Lewisburg Prison Project

http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~mligare/LPP ... ns/1.1.pdf

page 1
Introduction
This Legal Bulletin will provide information about how to litigate a civil case in federal court. The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure govern how to conduct most of the litigation.

page 21

Production of documents:

Rule 34 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure provides that any party may serve any other party a request to produce for inspection or copying any documents or other information, compilations, or any other “tangible things” that may be tested, sampled or copied.
This is a very useful discovery procedure for prisoners because,

(1) it may be served without permission from the court,

(2) any time after service of the complaint and summons,

(3) it is not costly for the inmate,

(3) it does not raise the custody related problems that oral depositions do,

(4) it may be repeated with additional requests as many times as necessary, and

(5) part (c) of Rule 34 provides that the rule does not preclude an independent action against a person not a party for similar production.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/Rule34.htm
Last edited by Marina on Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Marina
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Postby Marina » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:49 pm

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/Rule27.htm

Rule 27. Depositions Before Action or Pending Appeal

(a) Before Action.
(1) Petition.
A person who desires to perpetuate testimony regarding any matter that may be cognizable in any court of the United States may file a verified petition in the United States district court in the district of the residence of any expected adverse party. The petition shall be entitled in the name of the petitioner and shall show: 1, that the petitioner expects to be a party to an action cognizable in a court of the United States but is presently unable to bring it or cause it to be brought, 2, the subject matter of the expected action and the petitioner's interest therein, 3, the facts which the petitioner desires to establish by the proposed testimony and the reasons for desiring to perpetuate it, 4, the names or a description of the persons the petitioner expects will be adverse parties and their addresses so far as known, and 5, the names and addresses of the persons to be examined and the substance of the testimony which the petitioner expects to elicit from each, and shall ask for an order authorizing the petitioner to take the depositions of the persons to be examined named in the petition, for the purpose of perpetuating their testimony.

Marina
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Postby Marina » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:34 pm

Ahaaa !!! Now we are in business !!!



http://oregonfamilyrights.com/oregon/ta ... terrog.htm

Taylor McLaren
Respondent pro se
78 South Main Street
Hyde Park, Utah 84318

In The Matter Of,

NICHOLAS MCLAREN
RILEY MCLAREN
MICHAEL MCLAREN,
Children
)
)
)
)
)
)
) INTERROGATORIES AND REQUEST
FOR PRODUCTION OF
DOCUMENTS

Case No. 02J4897
Case No. 02J4898
Case No. 02J4899

Please respond to the following Interrogatories and Request for Production of Documents, in accordance with the Oregon Rules of Civil and of Juvenile Procedure:

INTERROGATORIES

1. Please describe in detail the significant emotional issues referred to in Paragraph 2(1) of the Petition. For each such issue, please describe:

a. The date and place of each incident relied upon in determining each such significant emotional issue.

b. Any other facts relied upon in determining the existence of each such significant emotional issue.

c. Those sections of the DSM IV relied upon in determining the existence of each such significant emotional issue.

d. The name, address, and telephone number of each person who made the determination of each such significant emotional issue.

e. The qualifications of each such person to make a determination of each such significant emotional issue.

2. Please describe in detail the significant mental issues referred to in Paragraph 2(1) of the Petition. For each such issue, please describe:

a. The date and place of each incident relied upon in determining each such significant mental issue.

b. Any other facts relied upon in determining the existence of each such significant mental issue.

c. Those sections of the DSM IV relied upon in determining the existence of each such significant mental issue.

d. The name, address, and telephone number of each person who made the determination of each such significant mental issue.

e. The qualifications of each such person to make a determination of each such significant mental issue.

3. Please describe in detail each incident referred to in Paragraph 2(3) of the Petition in which the Respondent has engaged in suicidal gestures and/or attempts and has made previous threats to harm herself and the children. For each such incident, please describe:

a. The date, time, and location of each such incident.

b. The conduct and statements constituting each such incident.

c. The name, address, and telephone number of each person who witnessed each such incident.

d. The name, address, and telephone number of each person who made a determination that such incident constituted a suicidal gesture, a suicidal attempt, a threat to harm herself, or a threat to harm the children.

e. The qualifications of each such person to make such a determination.

4. Please describe in detail each incident referred in which DHS attempted to engage the Respondent in services, as referred to in paragraph 2(4) of the Petition. For each such incident, please describe:

a. The date, time, and location at which each such service was offered.

b. The specific service that was offered.

c. The name, address, and telephone number of each person who offered each such service.

5. Please describe in detail each incident referred in which law enforcement attempted to engage the Respondent in services, as referred to in paragraph 2(4) of the Petition. For each such incident, please describe:

a. The date, time, and location at which each such service was offered.

b. The specific service that was offered.

c. The name, address, and telephone number of each person who offered each such service.

6. Please set forth any sections of the Oregon statutes, any federal statues, any Oregon case precedents, or any federal case precedents that require a party to accept services offered by DHS or law enforcement.

7. Please set forth any sections of the Oregon statutes, any federal statues, any Oregon case precedents, or any federal case precedents that require the Court to assume jurisdiction and/or make a finding of abuse, neglect, or child endangerment upon finding that a party has declined to accept services offered by DHS or law enforcement.

8. Please provide the name, address, and telephone number of each person whom the Petitioner intends to call as a witness at adjudication of the above-entitled matter.

9. Please provide the name, address, and telephone number of each person whom the Petitioner relied upon in formulating the allegations in the Petition.

10. Please provide the name, address, and telephone number of each person whom any Attorney for the children intends to call as a witness at adjudication of the above-entitled matter.

11. Please provide the professional qualifications, employment history, and criminal history of each person named in response to Interrogatories 8, 9, and 10.

REQUEST FOR PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS

12. Please provide copies of all documents which the Petitioner intends to introduce in support of the allegations contained in the Petition.

13. Please provide copies of all other documents which the Petitioner intends to introduce at Adjudication of the above-entitled matter.

14. Please provide copies of all documents which any Attorney for the children intends to introduce in support of the allegations contained in the Petition.

15. Please provide copies of all other documents which any Attorney for the children intends to introduce at Adjudication of the above-entitled matter.

16. Please provide copies of all documents relied upon by the Petitioner in formulating the allegations contained in the Petition.

DATED this 16th day of November, 2002.


____________________________________
Taylor McLaren




Certificate of Service

I hereby certify that I mailed a copy of the foregoing to the following this 18th day of November, 2002:

Dawn McIntosh
Assistant District Attorney
Clatsop County Courthouse
P.O. Box 835
Astoria, OR 97103 Mary Ann Murk
c/o Circuit Court
Clatsop County Courthouse
P.O. Box 835
Astoria, OR 97103 Paul Flannery
3918 Northeast 35th Circle
Vancouver, WA 98661

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fightingfor3
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Re:

Postby fightingfor3 » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:13 am

My understanding is that you first write the letter of request. Your right to confidential matters is also listed in the Privacy Act and in your state's open records law as well as the FOIA. As long as you are party to the case you are allowed access, and your children's records. Also, depending on your state's statutes your right may be covered under the children's codes they rely on.

THEY WILL DENY YOU. EXPECT IT.

They do this to say this to intimidate and confuse you. They will at all cost protect their @ss. You are asking for the hopes that they give you the record, but until that and if it ever happens you are BUILDING a case.

They deny you and you ask THEM what are you hiding? It is your opportunity to turn the tables. Then when you've made a reasonable request, you go and file a motion to release the records as Marina explained. You are leaving a trail of THEIR non compliance, and that is what is important.

And in the event the judge demands they release the records don't expect them then either. I know personally people who were granted by a judge their records in their entirety and they released the records alright, with EVERY THING blocked out. It was entirely useless. I know people who went back to court for their contempt and the judge flat out said that unless you want to be in court the rest of your life, drop it.

Go in there with the mind set that they will not comply and will screw you at every turn. It saves precious energy of being disappointed and angry every time they do. Know that your goal is to build a case and to leave a trail.

Hope that helps any.

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Greegor
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Location: Cedar Rapids Iowa

Re:

Postby Greegor » Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:29 pm

I agree with this outlook.
Don't get depressed or discouraged by all the rejection.
Making all of the efforts is important to law suits later.


fightingfor3 wrote
My understanding is that you first write the letter of request. Your right to confidential matters is also listed in the Privacy Act and in your state's open records law as well as the FOIA. As long as you are party to the case you are allowed access, and your children's records. Also, depending on your state's statutes your right may be covered under the children's codes they rely on.

THEY WILL DENY YOU. EXPECT IT.

They do this to say this to intimidate and confuse you. They will at all cost protect their @ss. You are asking for the hopes that they give you the record, but until that and if it ever happens you are BUILDING a case.

They deny you and you ask THEM what are you hiding? It is your opportunity to turn the tables. Then when you've made a reasonable request, you go and file a motion to release the records as Marina explained. You are leaving a trail of THEIR non compliance, and that is what is important.

And in the event the judge demands they release the records don't expect them then either. I know personally people who were granted by a judge their records in their entirety and they released the records alright, with EVERY THING blocked out. It was entirely useless. I know people who went back to court for their contempt and the judge flat out said that unless you want to be in court the rest of your life, drop it.

Go in there with the mind set that they will not comply and will screw you at every turn. It saves precious energy of being disappointed and angry every time they do. Know that your goal is to build a case and to leave a trail.

Hope that helps any.

Marina
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Postby Marina » Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:09 pm

Greegor asked:

Is there ANY caselaw where somebody took
an agency refusal into a federal court for enforcement?


Here is something

Search for --- sanctions + violations + discovery + rules +

child + protective + services



http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/184 ... hee04.html

Wednesday, August 4, 2004

Wenatchee must pay $718,000 in sanctions over abuse case, court rules

By MIKE BARBER
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

Wenatchee must pay what may be the largest sanctions ever levied against a city in Washington for withholding key information from people who sued after they were acquitted in the now-discredited investigations into child sex abuse, the state Court of Appeals said yesterday.

The appeals court in Spokane unanimously affirmed a strongly worded January 2003 lower court ruling that socked the city with $718,000 in sanctions after its lawyer failed to disclose information about lead police investigator Robert Perez.

The court affirmed Spokane County Superior Court Judge Michael Donohue's finding of "serious discovery abuse," after he ruled that the city "intentionally misled" not only the plaintiffs, but also him.

...


In yesterday's decision, all three appeals judges, Frank Kurtz, Dennis Sweeney and Kenneth Kato, said Wenatchee's claim that it did not commit a discovery violation "is without merit."

ElleStrong
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:10 pm

Re: Freedom of Information Act MY ASS!

Postby ElleStrong » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:51 pm

Is your lawyer not able to get the documents for you? I'm a kinship placement and was told by a CPS supervisor that I "don't have the right to see the court orders" because I'm "just the placement". I later found out that in the Kinship Placement Pamphlet it states that I'm supposed to get a copy of what will be said to the judge before every court date. I said all this to say, If I have rights as a kinship, I know you have rights. You are a party in the case so if you have any court document with the case # you can go to the courthouse on your own. Go to the district clerks office, tell them you're a party in the case and need to see the files. Here in Tx its $1/pg for them to print and 0.75/pg for them to email so I sat at the computer in the office for 3hrs going through our entire case.

lori1968
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Freedom of Information Act MY ASS!

Postby lori1968 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:47 pm

In AZ I apparently have to fill out a form then get it notarized, and then mail it off somewhere and wait. I wonder if the clerk of the court would have records of my case. I did call the county clerks office to inquire about my case but when I stated it was a CPS case the woman suddenly couldn't give me any info and sent me to the Judge presiding over the case office. I left a msg. for them to call me back and no one ever did. It's hard to keep pushing forward when you keep hitting nothing but roadblocks.


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