what if my house really is messy?

General chat area for anything that doesn't fit in elsewhere.

Moderators: family_man, LindaJM

survivorsofcps
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:50 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby survivorsofcps » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:58 pm

the grandfathers house was 4th degree squalor no doubt.
http://www.aetv.com/hoarders/pictures/# ... oom-Before

before and after pictures of manuel house apparently he did care enough about the kids to get help cleaning it. The after pictures look like something out of better homes and gardens.

i could not get the second half of the video to load but in the 1st half I noticed some things

They did have a bed in their own house but it was half covered. One of the rooms was fairly clean You could see all of the floor. That tells me they exaggerated they only showed the messy overflowing rooms but not the clean one with the couch.i did notice a vacuum as well.
The rooms also needed repair not just cleaning. The parents house would only qualify as 1st degree squalor. It is not just the parents job to clean but the social workers job to help them get it clean. Why do you think they bring cleaning supplies to families? why because they cannot afford to buy them.

They did not have to put the parents in jail.

If i was there social worker I would have:
helped them get daycare.
while the children are in daycare prepare the children's rooms by cleaning/organizing/helping to get repairs and fix windows
next, i would work on the common areas-kitchen/living room/bathroom/s doing the same thing
finally the parents room would be last since the kids would most likely spend less time there.

Foster Care is much more dangerous than this families house. I would have rather lived in their house than be placed in foster care. Yes foster care was that BAD. Much worse than this families house. Sorry having actually been in foster care the hazards in their home weren't nearly as bad as those i faced in foster care.

The little girls would most likely be raped before they turn 18 and the boys will most likely be beaten at least once. If they stay in foster care and are not returned.

Sarah79
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:49 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Sarah79 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:03 pm

I saw it. I still say that to uproot children and break the bond between children and their parents is so damaging to a child's make up that it should not be done unless there is very severe abuse.

We kept a spit and shine house because I like things clean and it will benefit my children to be orderly. But some people like survivors situation can just not keep that level of clean. Should we take their kids away?

Oh and I thought the Grandpa's house was appaling and I cannot believe the parents didn't know this. It looked like they were not taking care of their own home but the scars on these children will be for a lifetime.

survivorsofcps
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:50 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby survivorsofcps » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:00 am

I agree the parent child relationship is more important than a messy house.
If the parents house had looked like Manuel's house. Have the child stay with friends/neighbors NOT CPS until order can be restored. Order and exterminator service. Plus any repairs that might pose a threat to the child like broken glass.
Much of the stuff was trash but the extra useful furniture could be sold and any metal objects actually could be taken to the metal place and the money used to help with repairs.

Once all the junk was out Manuel's home was quite lovely and spacious.

noroses4u2c
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:57 am

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby noroses4u2c » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:40 am

The grandfather did that much improvement and still didn't get the kids??

It just goes to show that CPS already made up their minds.
My child was abducted by the government. They demanded a ransom (the case plan). I paid the ransom and my child was kept anyway. It isn't much different from stranger abduction except that the government uses its power to make the abduction legal and unpunishable.

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Eljay » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:11 pm

The grandfather didn't make any improvements, the staff of Hoarders and 1(800)gotjunk did it. The grandfather did not have custody before, so he wouldn't get it back. If memory serves, the kids were taken *7* MONTHS prior to this show being filmed!!!!!! The parents did not even have BEDS for the children!!!!!! And their house was in shambles. So here it is, MONTHS later and their house is STILL not fit for children? Let alone grandpa's house... eff grandpa's house, get your own house in order so your kids can come home! Plus, for the parents to be that irresponsible to have NO CLUE what grandpa's house looks like is totally inexcusable.

CPS was/is very likely waiting on their criminal trials to come about... all three were rightfully charged with child endangerment.
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

survivorsofcps
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:50 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby survivorsofcps » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:56 pm

sorry but I cannot more strongly disagree with you on this point. I do not know how messy my mother's house was but it was more damaging to go to her funeral and having NOT known her save a few visit that were abruptly cut off. Even if the evidence came in and the house really WAS squalor which i doubt I would have rather lived with her than be permanently separated.

My mother never hit me, she never deprived me of affection, she never allowed me to be raped but in the home cps said was "safe" ALL those things did happen. You are placing to little importance on the parent child bond.

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Eljay » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:10 pm

survivorsofcps wrote:sorry but I cannot more strongly disagree with you on this point. I do not know how messy my mother's house was but it was more damaging to go to her funeral and having NOT known her save a few visit that were abruptly cut off. Even if the evidence came in and the house really WAS squalor which i doubt I would have rather lived with her than be permanently separated.

My mother never hit me, she never deprived me of affection, she never allowed me to be raped but in the home cps said was "safe" ALL those things did happen. You are placing to little importance on the parent child bond.


This isn't about YOU. I'm talking about the well-documented, completely substandard living conditions of the people in that episode of Hoarders. People who didn't even care enough to know where they were sending their children, nor care enough to ensure that their four children had at least A BED to sleep on.
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

survivorsofcps
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:50 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby survivorsofcps » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:19 pm

and as i stated in a previous post I SAW A BED slow the video down and you will see much more

survivorsofcps
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:50 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby survivorsofcps » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:24 pm

The only thing they did wrong was not entering the grandparents house to see if it was orderly.

I would bet everything I have and everything I will ever have that their children do not see it as you do.

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Eljay » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:57 pm

survivorsofcps wrote:and as i stated in a previous post I SAW A BED slow the video down and you will see much more


That had TONS of crap piled on and around it. FAIL!
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Eljay » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:01 pm

survivorsofcps wrote:The only thing they did wrong was not entering the grandparents house to see if it was orderly.

I would bet everything I have and everything I will ever have that their children do not see it as you do.



Most children don't see things clearly until they are adults and realize that that they grew up in severly dysfunctional environment, then have a hard time overcoming the damage inflicted on them. When people on hoarders have children - young, teens, or grown - the only ones who don't hate their parent's hoarding are the ones who have become hoarders themselves. These kids hate that they are or were deprived of a normal childhood, including having friends over to play.
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

User avatar
monkette31
Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:12 am
Location: Los Angeles, California
Contact:

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby monkette31 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:34 pm

I know what you mean. It wasn't until I was an adult until I realized I was raised by some very clean type of people. It was demanded that I clean my bedroom and such almost on a daily basis, I never realized and considered how damaging this was to my natural born lifestyle of being a god damned pig. oink!!!
I'm not a lawyer but will try and help you any way i can. My postings may seem harsh but they all stem from personal experience with DCFS. I am not a victim and take responsibility for my part in my life, but I will always help ANYONE learn about the corrupt sick system.

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Eljay » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:28 am

monkette31 wrote:I know what you mean. It wasn't until I was an adult until I realized I was raised by some very clean type of people. It was demanded that I clean my bedroom and such almost on a daily basis, I never realized and considered how damaging this was to my natural born lifestyle of being a god damned pig. oink!!!


LOL! Every coin has two sides. :)
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

noroses4u2c
Posts: 877
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:57 am

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby noroses4u2c » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:19 am

They said I was a hoarder, but my home didn't look like that even when she was taken away. I was unpacking boxes for a flea market booth after a move and was getting rid of stuff. Most of the personal stuff had already been put away.

My mom's place tends to look like that all the time though. I have trouble being around her at times.
My child was abducted by the government. They demanded a ransom (the case plan). I paid the ransom and my child was kept anyway. It isn't much different from stranger abduction except that the government uses its power to make the abduction legal and unpunishable.

Sarah79
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:49 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Sarah79 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:05 pm

Okay they failed! So was it a SUCESS to have damaged the kids further??? What type of adults will they be after having that traumatic severing of their familial bonds. No CPS FAILS to fix the FAILURE of the parents! Since when did we start believing that government is the answer to the problem???????? It never ever ever can be! I know the solution....

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Eljay » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:54 pm

Keep in mind that the parents and grandparent(s) were arrested, NOT by CPS, but by the police (I have no idea why they didn't arrest grandma, except that she was "his wife" and not grandma). CPS had no choice but to take the kids into physical custody once the parents were taken away in a squad car. Furthermore, the parents repeatedly said they had NO CHOICE but to send the kids to grandpa's ... not "we need to find SOME OTHER SOLUTION or SOMEONE ELSE" ... they weren't offering to look for other options, they were only offering excuses.

I totally support that police intervention is REQUIRED before CPS can file a petition to involuntarily take children. In this case, that's exactly what happened and the circumstances were so bad that all three were arrested and charged. Any other circumstance, CPS can *OFFER* help and maybe give the parents 24-72 hours to fix the problem (if the situation isn't so bad that they'll likely die if left there another day). However, I don't agree on the state paying for their cleanup. It's a matter of choice to live in squalor, mental illness or not. If the parents, when faced with losing their children, still can't clean up, then the children should not be forced to stay in squalor.
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

Sarah79
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:49 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Sarah79 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:01 pm

and after Hoarders or the Junk it whatever guys cleaned it up they were still not returned.

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Eljay » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:40 pm

Sarah79 wrote:and after Hoarders or the Junk it whatever guys cleaned it up they were still not returned.


They are still facing criminal charges and chances are that CPS won't move forward until that has been resolved.
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

Sarah79
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:49 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Sarah79 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:15 pm

well let's hope they move forward to returning the children when the criminal is involved.

User avatar
Eljay
Posts: 2645
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:01 am

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Eljay » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:28 pm

Sarah79 wrote:well let's hope they move forward to returning the children when the criminal is involved.


Oh my... I hope you meant to say "resolved"! LOL
Advice & opinions provided are no substitute for genuine legal assistance. Laws & rules vary by state/jurisdiction so do your homework and get
an education in CPS laws, rules & practices so that you can FIGHT for your children's rights. I am not a lawyer. Your mileage may vary.

----<>----<>----<>---- BREED WITH CAUTION ----<>----<>----<>----

survivorsofcps
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:50 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby survivorsofcps » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:43 am

in the home i was abused in all us children did all the cleaning. my so-called parents never lifted a finger to do any chore whatsoever. How is that type of situation any better? Great example they set out for us. Children are just slaves so we can sit on our fat lazy butts.

There is a big difference in being physically disabled and unable to clean and being unwilling. My mom still tried but no one was willing to help not even the social worker who said and i quote "she don't deserve any services"

I have spoken to several other kids that were treated the same way.

My children help but they are not slaves. They have time to play and just be kids.

Sarah79
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:49 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby Sarah79 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:02 pm

Lol...yeah I meant resolved .... :shock:

Then there is the other side of the coin kids not been taught how to clean or to take care of their personal appearance etc.... I don't ask my kids to work unless I am working too.

survivorsofcps
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:50 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby survivorsofcps » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:51 pm

yeah me too.

madangel
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby madangel » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:25 pm

Cps claimed my home was filthy. Rotting food boxes on the table dishes in the sink garbage all over the floor. Filthy walls, stained furniture stained carpet. (This help them take my 3 youngest kids)
When they came to my home I had been spring cleaning, I told them that, there was garbage in the garbage but not all over the floor, there were finger prints (and some minor 3year old graffiti ) but not filth. They called me a list.
Now while in trial I asked for pictures of said filth. They didn't have any, but the cps workers word was more believable than mine. (Not for long) funny enough we love taking pictures, so I have lots of pictures of my home with my toddlers in the pictures(the toddlers where taken away so shows proof it was before they were removed) and there are boxes on the table but no dishes in the sink no over full garbage no filth about. And of course just finger prints on the wall. God I wish I could just smile and wave at this worker as I destroy her credibility.

rakhel
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:18 am

Re: what if my house really is messy?

Postby rakhel » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:52 pm

My kids were taken away because of a messy home.They tried to claim I had animal feces on the floor and had to change it because we had no animals. At all. I hadn't swept that morning but I had cleaned up. I admit it was a little hard. 2 teens who had to be yelled at to do anything, Two toddlers who did try to help and a husband who was depressed becaused he losted his job due to a back injury. So yeah. My house was messy, but my family was taken care of.
Now, I just have to reinforce the issue that different people have different standards of cleanliness. My home may not meet their standards but they meet mine and if I weren't happy with it I would not have invited them in.
I mean, seriously. I got 5 kids in my home right now. School hasn't started yet. Am I really going to be able to be a neat freak? Toys are scattered all over the flloor, and you may find a shoe here and it's pair in another room, but at least you can tell that I live there.
My home is cleaner than the one I grew up in. So it will never look like my great grandmother's. But even hers was only perfect after all her kids were grown.
And another thing. How many of these caseworkes actually have families of their own? Let them have kids and see how clean they can keep it.
I did not give birth to my children just so someone else could raise them!!!


Return to “Round Table”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests