Is there influence good or bad?
In what ways?
what about christians and the church
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monkette31
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Re: what about christians and the church
I don't know, all I know about christians is that the romans liked to feed them to the lions for some reason and I don't go to church.
I'm not a lawyer but will try and help you any way i can. My postings may seem harsh but they all stem from personal experience with DCFS. I am not a victim and take responsibility for my part in my life, but I will always help ANYONE learn about the corrupt sick system.
Re: what about christians and the church
What is your question more specifically? Are they good or bad in respect to what? CPS?
Re: what about christians and the church
Oh okay duh I get it.
That's a hot button....maybe. I have experienced extreme frustration with the Christian attitude and CPS. From my perspective it seems that the church is very ignorant of what CPS does is and stands for and the level of corruption that exists. Upon trying to enlighten some of them we have heard back "No, that doesn't happen!" IF they realized what was truly happening I know that Christians would not stand for it however as everyone else there are many that want to close their eyes.
I know pastors that preach from the pulpit about the evils of the corrupt government and includes CPS in that and are involved in helping lots of families. So one cannot make a blanket statement. On the whole the churches that I know of believe in the rights of the parent and that CPS has NO place unless there is severe and criminal abuse.
We have seen churches turn in their own instead of dealing with the problem themselves and they said that they did it to protect their 501c3 status and I am boiling mad about that! They would choose their protection of their tax exemption to turn someone in when it was something that they could have handled themselves. It was minor. And no it was not us.
That's a hot button....maybe. I have experienced extreme frustration with the Christian attitude and CPS. From my perspective it seems that the church is very ignorant of what CPS does is and stands for and the level of corruption that exists. Upon trying to enlighten some of them we have heard back "No, that doesn't happen!" IF they realized what was truly happening I know that Christians would not stand for it however as everyone else there are many that want to close their eyes.
I know pastors that preach from the pulpit about the evils of the corrupt government and includes CPS in that and are involved in helping lots of families. So one cannot make a blanket statement. On the whole the churches that I know of believe in the rights of the parent and that CPS has NO place unless there is severe and criminal abuse.
We have seen churches turn in their own instead of dealing with the problem themselves and they said that they did it to protect their 501c3 status and I am boiling mad about that! They would choose their protection of their tax exemption to turn someone in when it was something that they could have handled themselves. It was minor. And no it was not us.
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survivorsofcps
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:50 pm
Re: what about christians and the church
It is a hard subject for me because I am a Christian. I would not turn anyone in unless I thought that child was seriously at risk of losing life, limb or being raped. Still I would ask the child if I really thought the parents were a danger to the kids. I would never call for any of the petty reasons some people give. I overheard a lady say she would call cps b/c a child shoes were too tight. I mean get real buy the kids a pair of shoes if the parents can't.
On the flip side of that I don't answer to man about how I raise my kids I answer to God. CPS doesn't like that cuz they think they are God. God knows the difference between poverty and neglect. He also knows whether something is discipline or abuse. The problem with most social workers and hotline callers is that they don't know or choose not to care.
On the flip side of that I don't answer to man about how I raise my kids I answer to God. CPS doesn't like that cuz they think they are God. God knows the difference between poverty and neglect. He also knows whether something is discipline or abuse. The problem with most social workers and hotline callers is that they don't know or choose not to care.
Re: what about christians and the church
As Christians we cannot answer to man we must answer to God. God is love. God is good to His children and He also disiplines His children. But He never abuses His children. Whatever He does He does for His our good and His glory. If we parent our children that way they will love us and not hate us and we will not embitter them against us.
We are living in a Gestapo state it is really terrifying. Abuse is in the eye of the beholder. However if these people only KNEW what was happening to children once they were going into state run care!!! People are so selfish nowdays they so many don't even have kids so they can't understand anything at all???? It's bizzare it's not normal!
I think Jesus helps even if the church fails much of the time...He has the right perspective on CPS...
We are living in a Gestapo state it is really terrifying. Abuse is in the eye of the beholder. However if these people only KNEW what was happening to children once they were going into state run care!!! People are so selfish nowdays they so many don't even have kids so they can't understand anything at all???? It's bizzare it's not normal!
I think Jesus helps even if the church fails much of the time...He has the right perspective on CPS...
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survivorsofcps
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Re: what about christians and the church
Some do know or at least have been told but still think cps care is better. I don't. I know what goes on behind closed doors. I know about the deaths of children. I know about the sexual abuse. I know about the foster child on foster child abuse. I know about the drugging of the children, and so much more.
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family_man
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Re: what about christians and the church
I have mixed feelings about the Church in regards to CPS.
First of all, let me say that I consider myself to be a Christian, in the sense that I endeavor to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I let his pronouncements about ethics and morality guide my ethical decisions. We were sending two of our children to a private Christian school when CPS intervened in our lives and took custody of them. Before that, we were respected members of that church, volunteering significant amounts of time, money and energy to their school. After the CPS intervention, the attitude of the church completely turned on us. We were shunned and outcast, and became the objects of scorn and derision. They would spy on us and report any negative thing to CPS. Later, when the children were returned to my physical but not yet legal custody, the school would run to CPS whenever a child forgot his lunch money, or turned his homework in late.
On the other hand, I have nothing but praise for the foster parents, who were also a strong Christian family. They instilled good moral values in my children while they were in their care. When I was forced to be a single parent, they gave me excellent advice, and graciously offered me their help in a pinch. I have never met a more generous and conscientious family.
I think there is a tendency in some Christian circles to judge people too severely when they are going through difficult times. Prayer circles often degenerate into gossip cliques. Christians are also frequently too trusting in government officials, never believing it to be possible for them to be corrupt or misguided. On the other hand, I do admire the Christian imperatives to be kind and generous to others, that are so evident in some.
First of all, let me say that I consider myself to be a Christian, in the sense that I endeavor to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. I let his pronouncements about ethics and morality guide my ethical decisions. We were sending two of our children to a private Christian school when CPS intervened in our lives and took custody of them. Before that, we were respected members of that church, volunteering significant amounts of time, money and energy to their school. After the CPS intervention, the attitude of the church completely turned on us. We were shunned and outcast, and became the objects of scorn and derision. They would spy on us and report any negative thing to CPS. Later, when the children were returned to my physical but not yet legal custody, the school would run to CPS whenever a child forgot his lunch money, or turned his homework in late.
On the other hand, I have nothing but praise for the foster parents, who were also a strong Christian family. They instilled good moral values in my children while they were in their care. When I was forced to be a single parent, they gave me excellent advice, and graciously offered me their help in a pinch. I have never met a more generous and conscientious family.
I think there is a tendency in some Christian circles to judge people too severely when they are going through difficult times. Prayer circles often degenerate into gossip cliques. Christians are also frequently too trusting in government officials, never believing it to be possible for them to be corrupt or misguided. On the other hand, I do admire the Christian imperatives to be kind and generous to others, that are so evident in some.
Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, and this is not legal advice.
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noroses4u2c
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Re: what about christians and the church
I have had some Christians tell me that the Holy Spirit told them that I was guilty.
I have been subjected to much abuse from Christians. They like to rub all of my shortcomings in my face and tell me bible verses showing how I'm a disgrace, an abomination, etc.
I often face much worse treatment at the hands of God's children than of the other side.
The bible also indicates that God places all authorities over us. According to the bible, going against the authorities is like going up against God Himself and brings judgment on us. Well, when I have obeyed the authorities, it led to even more abuse and hardship than if I hadn't. The authorities He placed over me allowed me to be beaten, raped, tortured, and handed my only child to the monster who did it to me.
I used to beg God for help. I begged for lots of things I desperately need, like help with my daughter and a job for example. I never got it. Instead, my life got worse while my enemies received His help in harming me. I have come to realize that He just didn't choose me and I'll never be His child, so going to God for anything for me is pointless.
I wouldn't ever confide in a Christian with problems again. When I do I receive judgment and ridicule and one more enemy attacking me.
I wouldn't trust most Christians or anyone in government. Most I have encountered were the same. I keep my distance now. My life has been one hardship after another with no help or care from anyone I ever reached out to. I know I am bitter and just don't care anymore. I have been there for others to the best of my ability and then whenever I have needed help they're not around. The only two people from my life before my daughter was taken are my mother and a friend in Virginia. I rarely have conversations with either of them though. Everyone else avoids me. And my thesis coach still talks to me too. It's kind of a professional relationship though, but I think he does believe me.
I have been subjected to much abuse from Christians. They like to rub all of my shortcomings in my face and tell me bible verses showing how I'm a disgrace, an abomination, etc.
I often face much worse treatment at the hands of God's children than of the other side.
The bible also indicates that God places all authorities over us. According to the bible, going against the authorities is like going up against God Himself and brings judgment on us. Well, when I have obeyed the authorities, it led to even more abuse and hardship than if I hadn't. The authorities He placed over me allowed me to be beaten, raped, tortured, and handed my only child to the monster who did it to me.
I used to beg God for help. I begged for lots of things I desperately need, like help with my daughter and a job for example. I never got it. Instead, my life got worse while my enemies received His help in harming me. I have come to realize that He just didn't choose me and I'll never be His child, so going to God for anything for me is pointless.
I wouldn't ever confide in a Christian with problems again. When I do I receive judgment and ridicule and one more enemy attacking me.
I wouldn't trust most Christians or anyone in government. Most I have encountered were the same. I keep my distance now. My life has been one hardship after another with no help or care from anyone I ever reached out to. I know I am bitter and just don't care anymore. I have been there for others to the best of my ability and then whenever I have needed help they're not around. The only two people from my life before my daughter was taken are my mother and a friend in Virginia. I rarely have conversations with either of them though. Everyone else avoids me. And my thesis coach still talks to me too. It's kind of a professional relationship though, but I think he does believe me.
My child was abducted by the government. They demanded a ransom (the case plan). I paid the ransom and my child was kept anyway. It isn't much different from stranger abduction except that the government uses its power to make the abduction legal and unpunishable.
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survivorsofcps
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:50 pm
Re: what about christians and the church
I'm sorry you have had such a bad experience with people who call themselves Christians. It has been my experience that not everyone who calls themselves Christians really are. Some people who call themselves Christians can be more cruel than those who have never been to church.
Re: what about christians and the church
Oh my goodness....that is so so WRONG!!! noroses4u2c.....I am so so so so so so sorry on behalf of the church that you were treated this way. That is not GOD and that is not JESUS and that is not how Jesus Christ would treat you. Please....read the following...
I have to say that when this happened to us. Our very conservative like just a few clicks above being Amish shunned us and totally took the side of CPS even though they sent us out as missionaries ....but wait.....read on....
I have been pressuring my husband who is a wonderful man...please please make this right with these people so that they will see that the whole church body is in danger since we got in trouble for homeschooling (and sex abuse allegations from our adopted son) but the main thrust was homeschooling since the sex charges were so obviously bogus...I never wanted the church to have to go through what we have went through. So I wanted him to talk to them. He has made many calls saying "please can we talk about this?" They have said "no." Till late last night. I have written a sort of handbook for families going through this written from a Christian perspective. What I really wanted is for them to be armed with info and warned so that they can protect their families.
Sooooooooo.............. dream come true.....
I have been literally SICK about this. I have been told I am a rotten wife a rotten mother, I am cheating on my husband with my adopted son, I have been told that I am a liar and the families that staunchly stood by us have suffered dearly the consequences....all my close friends that have stood with me/us have cried and bawled about this it has hurt and caused so many rifts.....it has been horrible...not just for our family but tragic for all those that knew the church was wrong....
The elder of our former church (the one we were going to when this happened) sat down with us this morning for the first time and apologized on behalf of the church and they were very humble and contrite. They asked for our forgiveness for how they handled it and asked how they can "make it right!" They said they were going to fix it with the church body and wanted our forgiveness! I called our friends and they were literally bawling that they apologized (for joy).
Soooo.....I expalined that they are very ignorant about how this wordly system works. And they said to me "God forbid this ever happen to anyone else in the church can you shed light on how we can prevent this!" I was agast!! Shocked more than I ever hoped for. Our church is very critical of women so I am always in the wrong simply because I am a female with a brain and I do not roll over and take it well especially when it comes to my flesh and blood. I am outgoing outspoken and smart and that is frowned upon in our circle. However we prayed and sweated and my oldest daughter prayed her guts out that they would repent of this wrong attitude and outlook and for the good of the whole body they would reconsider and they DID! They even took my handout about What to do When CPS comes to Your Door and How to Prevent a Run In With CPS.....
Okay noroses4u2c I am so sorry.. You feel just like I did for a long time.. I felt like God hated me and He had turned me out and that He was just against me. I stopped believing in His goodness and His grace and stopped believing that He answers prayers....and that is not true ......I just felt like "God you're too good and too high for me I can never attain to You!" I stopped trying not in anger but just in a hopeless dispair....all the Christians I was around were so horrible and critical and downright hateful. I have even had other women scream in my face! My kids have taken up my defense saying "Mom why would anyone want to be a Christian if this is how they treat them?" Or "who hates us now Mom!" They have been so wounded by the churches response. I wanted this to be right just for them so they could see "no that is not how Christians are kids." and they are seeing it now. This has done much to heal my children just today cause it happened today. They were like "Mom that was awesome!" And "Mom I got up at 5:30 this morning to pray for their repentance!" My husband said "This bothers me far more than I will admit it does. I think about it all day long."
I pushed and pushed this meeting. I kept on pushing saying "no this is wrong and you are all in danger" and finally after almost 2 years we are getting heard! We have had so many apologies in the past 4 months so much "I am sorry I did not know!"
noroses4u2c Jesus loves you this is not Christ this is not of God- God does not agree that this is right! Please don't turn your face from Him. I have read alot of your story and it has brought me to tears. You didn't desrve this and God knows it He is on your side and all for you!!!! Please believe that!
Familyman thank you for your comments I have seen all that to be the gospel truth unfortunately but I think the problem is that they are so so so ignorant.,,,,and alot of it is willlful ignorance....
I have to say that when this happened to us. Our very conservative like just a few clicks above being Amish shunned us and totally took the side of CPS even though they sent us out as missionaries ....but wait.....read on....
I have been pressuring my husband who is a wonderful man...please please make this right with these people so that they will see that the whole church body is in danger since we got in trouble for homeschooling (and sex abuse allegations from our adopted son) but the main thrust was homeschooling since the sex charges were so obviously bogus...I never wanted the church to have to go through what we have went through. So I wanted him to talk to them. He has made many calls saying "please can we talk about this?" They have said "no." Till late last night. I have written a sort of handbook for families going through this written from a Christian perspective. What I really wanted is for them to be armed with info and warned so that they can protect their families.
Sooooooooo.............. dream come true.....
I have been literally SICK about this. I have been told I am a rotten wife a rotten mother, I am cheating on my husband with my adopted son, I have been told that I am a liar and the families that staunchly stood by us have suffered dearly the consequences....all my close friends that have stood with me/us have cried and bawled about this it has hurt and caused so many rifts.....it has been horrible...not just for our family but tragic for all those that knew the church was wrong....
The elder of our former church (the one we were going to when this happened) sat down with us this morning for the first time and apologized on behalf of the church and they were very humble and contrite. They asked for our forgiveness for how they handled it and asked how they can "make it right!" They said they were going to fix it with the church body and wanted our forgiveness! I called our friends and they were literally bawling that they apologized (for joy).
Soooo.....I expalined that they are very ignorant about how this wordly system works. And they said to me "God forbid this ever happen to anyone else in the church can you shed light on how we can prevent this!" I was agast!! Shocked more than I ever hoped for. Our church is very critical of women so I am always in the wrong simply because I am a female with a brain and I do not roll over and take it well especially when it comes to my flesh and blood. I am outgoing outspoken and smart and that is frowned upon in our circle. However we prayed and sweated and my oldest daughter prayed her guts out that they would repent of this wrong attitude and outlook and for the good of the whole body they would reconsider and they DID! They even took my handout about What to do When CPS comes to Your Door and How to Prevent a Run In With CPS.....
Okay noroses4u2c I am so sorry.. You feel just like I did for a long time.. I felt like God hated me and He had turned me out and that He was just against me. I stopped believing in His goodness and His grace and stopped believing that He answers prayers....and that is not true ......I just felt like "God you're too good and too high for me I can never attain to You!" I stopped trying not in anger but just in a hopeless dispair....all the Christians I was around were so horrible and critical and downright hateful. I have even had other women scream in my face! My kids have taken up my defense saying "Mom why would anyone want to be a Christian if this is how they treat them?" Or "who hates us now Mom!" They have been so wounded by the churches response. I wanted this to be right just for them so they could see "no that is not how Christians are kids." and they are seeing it now. This has done much to heal my children just today cause it happened today. They were like "Mom that was awesome!" And "Mom I got up at 5:30 this morning to pray for their repentance!" My husband said "This bothers me far more than I will admit it does. I think about it all day long."
I pushed and pushed this meeting. I kept on pushing saying "no this is wrong and you are all in danger" and finally after almost 2 years we are getting heard! We have had so many apologies in the past 4 months so much "I am sorry I did not know!"
noroses4u2c Jesus loves you this is not Christ this is not of God- God does not agree that this is right! Please don't turn your face from Him. I have read alot of your story and it has brought me to tears. You didn't desrve this and God knows it He is on your side and all for you!!!! Please believe that!
Familyman thank you for your comments I have seen all that to be the gospel truth unfortunately but I think the problem is that they are so so so ignorant.,,,,and alot of it is willlful ignorance....
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