LESBIAN MOM WANTS TO GIVE BABY BOY SEX CHANGE

[Dan Sullivan]

Is all of that arguing really worth the effort? How about putting that effort into some thing constuctive, like say for example....FIGHTING CPS.
Or do you two really like each other and this is your way of showing it?
Dan

Now that I'm done puking, I'll just say this: I don't think it's right that Dan puts down advice or ideas that can ultimately help someone just because he has some personal grudge, jealousy or vendetta against someone.

All I've done by asking questions is help demonstrate that some information posted on the forums that's SUPPOSED to be factual is merely unsubstantiated speculation.

And I have no personal grudge, am not jealous, nor have a vendetta against anyone on the Fight CPS forums.

It's NOT helping people. The best example is the bill Bob is working on and Dan's attempt to belittle all the work that's gone into it. If Bob were to listen to Dan, then the bill would go NOWHERE for God knows how long.

Bob Lynn asked me numerous time to make suggestions regarding the bill you're referring to.

And that's what I did.

Is everyone supposed to agree with Bob?

Am I not supposed to voice my opinion when asked?

Here's a bit of what I wrote, "Why don't you explain the problems to the legislator and ask him for his recommendations. Maybe he'll put you in touch with one of his aides who could guide you through the process of writing a proper bill."

Fortunately Bob's been here long enough to know what Dan is made of.

What am I made of, Chaco?

Newcomers that don't know Dan's personality flaws might actually follow his advice even though at times he says things just to be contradictory.

My advice has helped get dozens of children back to their families.

My advice has helped dozens of people get erroneous founded CPS determinations reversed.

FYI the volume of reversed erroneous founded CPS determinations is what caused Judge Pallmeyer to make such a devastating ruling regarding the CPS system in her state.

This can HARM CHILDREN. It's not right.

Chaco

What can "HARM CHILDREN?"

And what's "not right?"

[Dan Sullivan]

To be accurate and true you should have written, ...NOBODY was surprised that YOU posted it.

How many times do you need for me to point this out to you?

<<<snip>>>

"Made up, useless or a flat out lie" prove it with facts, Chaco.

I was talking about an IDIOTIC POST which happened to contain an idiotic article.

But you claimed I "wrote" it when I didn't.

Here it is again.

YOU wrote, "Ahhhhh, but Dan.... Take notice that NOBODY was surprised that YOU wrote it!"

See?

And as I've said over and over, I didn't write it.

I posted it.

YOU get it yet?

[good dad]

Ok kids....time outs for everybody... and no juice

[sob900]

Well them I guess I will leave you two to your epic battle, good luck.
Dan

[Chaco]

Ok kids....time outs for everybody... and no juice

Please give Dan his juice. He needs all the brain power he can get. He still can't comprehend how typing in "believe it or not" and then copying and pasting an article (No matter how stupid it is.) into a message area of a thread, then clicking on "submit" constitutes as HIM WRITING A POST.

Chaco

[Dan Sullivan]

Ok kids....time outs for everybody... and no juice :(

:lol:

Please give Dan his juice. He needs all the brain power he can get. He still can't comprehend how typing in "believe it or not" and then copying and pasting an article (No matter how stupid it is.) into a message area of a thread, then clicking on "submit" constitutes as HIM WRITING A POST.

Chaco

So that means you were in error when you claimed, "Ahhhhh, but Dan.... Take notice that NOBODY was surprised that YOU wrote it!"

Isn't that right?

Can't you admit you were wrong, Chaco?

[Chaco]

So that means you were in error when you claimed, "Ahhhhh, but Dan.... Take notice that NOBODY was surprised that YOU wrote it!"

Isn't that right?

"Ahhhhh, but Dan.... Take notice that NOBODY was surprised that YOU wrote it!"

"It" means post.

Once again, try it Dan: Take notice that NOBODY was surprised that YOU wrote "the post."

Typing in "believe it or not" and then copying and pasting an article (No matter how stupid it is.) into a message area of a thread, then clicking on "submit" constitutes as WRITING A POST.

YOU WROTE A POST.

Just for the record, I copied and pasted IN THIS POST THAT I'M WRITING, BUT I STILL WROTE THIS POST.

I made NO error.

YOU WROTE THE POST.

Here you go Dan, if you didn't write that post, WHO DID? Pay attention here, I'm not asking you who wrote the article. Who wrote the POST Dan? Who decided to put the words in that message that showed up on that post?

Chaco

[Dan Sullivan]

So that means you were in error when you claimed, "Ahhhhh, but Dan.... Take notice that NOBODY was surprised that YOU wrote it!"

Isn't that right?

"Ahhhhh, but Dan.... Take notice that NOBODY was surprised that YOU wrote it!"

"It" means post.

Smoke and mirrors.

You're wrong but rather than admit your mistake you want to change the subject from "write" to "it."

Red herring- something that draws attention from the central issue.

Once again, try it Dan: Take notice that NOBODY was surprised that YOU wrote "the post."

Now you want to switch the subject from "it" to "the post."

More smoke and mirrors.

Red herring #2.

Typing in "believe it or not" and then copying and pasting an article (No matter how stupid it is.) into a message area of a thread, then clicking on "submit" constitutes as WRITING A POST.

No, clicking on "submit" means I submitted something, NOT that I wrote it... I submitted it.

Red herring #3.

YOU WROTE A POST.

Just for the record, I copied and pasted IN THIS POST THAT I'M WRITING, BUT I STILL WROTE THIS POST.

I made NO error.

YOU WROTE THE POST.

Here you go Dan, if you didn't write that post, WHO DID? Pay attention here, I'm not asking you who wrote the article. Who wrote the POST Dan? Who decided to put the words in that message that showed up on that post?

Chaco

The only words I wrote in the post you're referring to were "Believe it or not."

I did not write any other words it that post.

All the other words were written by someone else, not me.

That's why I posted the link, to demonstrate that I didn't write the article.

So that means you were in error when you claimed, "Ahhhhh, but Dan.... Take notice that NOBODY was surprised that YOU wrote it!"

Isn't that right?

Can't you admit you were wrong, Chaco?

[Chaco]

Smoke and mirrors.

You're wrong but rather than admit your mistake you want to change the subject from "write" to "it."

Red herring- something that draws attention from the central issue.

Liar.

Now you want to switch the subject from "it" to "the post."

More smoke and mirrors.

Red herring #2.

Liar.

No, clicking on "submit" means I submitted something, NOT that I wrote it... I submitted it.

BAWHAWHAHAHAHAHA. Submitted "SOMETHING???" What did you SUBMIT Dan??? Oh wait, I know, I know.... "IT" WAS A POST! BAWHAWHAHAHAHA.

The only words I wrote in the post you're referring to were "Believe it or not."

So you admit you WROTE THE POST. BAWHAWHAHAHAHA!!!

All the other words were written by someone else, not me.

So what? It still doesn't change the fact that you wrote the dumb ass post and put it on this forum. A lot of people copy and paste, it's still their post! I've copied and pasted again, IN THIS POST. It's still MY POST and I WROTE IT.

That's why I posted the link, to demonstrate that I didn't write the article.

Who cares why you posted a link to the article Dan? What's your point?

So that means you were in error

Nope, I was referring to your post, the same post that you just admitted to writing. BAWHAWHAHAHAHAHA.

Chaco

[Dan Sullivan]

Can't you admit you were wrong, Chaco?

[Bob_Lynn]

Bob Lynn asked me numerous time to make suggestions regarding the bill you're referring to.

And that's what I did.

Not exactly. If you remember correctly, the question was:

"what would you like to see in a family rights bill for your state?"

You not only never offered anything with respect to what I asked for, but you stated several times you didn't want to discuss the issues, although you did discuss them to some degree anyway.

Is everyone supposed to agree with Bob?

Am I not supposed to voice my opinion when asked?

I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me and I'll defend anyone's right to state an opinion, asked or not.

Here's a bit of what I wrote, "Why don't you explain the problems to the legislator and ask him for his recommendations. Maybe he'll put you in touch with one of his aides who could guide you through the process of writing a proper bill."

The first part is reasonable advice, it's exactly and partly what we planned to do and what we did do and the legislator's advice was to meet with the Chairman of the Children and Youth Committee, which is now set for October 28. We will be there as well as Mario Scavello and an attorney who is also a Heads Held High member.

The second part is not part of our plan for several reasons. In the first place, the proposed bill that we will finalize and submit at the appropriate time is most likely going to be submitted to the Children and Youth Committee. If they actually respond to the CPS problem that we hope to educate them with, they will first conduct fact finding hearings then possibly use our proposed bill as a model and I'm sure, write their own version to submit to the legislature for further discussion and hopefully for a vote.

In any case, yes thank you for your suggestion Dan but I was specifically looking for input as to the contents of the proposed bill, not suggestions as to how we should proceed (not that your suggestions, minus sarcasm, are not welcome).

[Dan Sullivan]

Bob Lynn asked me numerous time to make suggestions regarding the bill you're referring to.

And that's what I did.

Not exactly. If you remember correctly, the question was:

"what would you like to see in a family rights bill for your state?"

You not only never offered anything with respect to what I asked for, but you stated several times you didn't want to discuss the issues, although you did discuss them to some degree anyway.

Bob_Lynn Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:09 am

Family Rights Bill

"Of course Chaco, I'm open to any and all suggestions and I highly appreciate anything anyone has to offer and I mean anyone, including Dan."

------------

Bob_Lynn

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:22 pm

Family Rights Bill

"Any suggestion, especially from those who have been victimized by CPS, is welcome Chaco, thank you."

----------------

Bob_Lynn

Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:44 am

Family Rights Bill

"Thanks again all, I assure you that everything posted here will be taken into serious consideration as you are collectively, the experts."

--------------------

You asked for suggestions... and that's what I gave you, Bob.

And I didn't believe it was time for me to discuss the bill till you posted and I read what you had so far.

Is everyone supposed to agree with Bob?

Am I not supposed to voice my opinion when asked?

I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me and I'll defend anyone's right to state an opinion, asked or not.

Obviously you did ask, Bob

[Bob_Lynn]

Yes I did ask, but I primarily asked for suggestions regarding the contents of the bill. You offered none of that and the only suggestion you had that had any value was what you quoted here.

Other than that, the rest of your posts were filled with criticism and immature sarcasm and you also said that I'd be setting back CPS reform 20 years and suggested that I'd not only be ruining a politician's career but I might also kill him. I would say maybe your "poor memory" prevented you from remembering all your wonderful posts but you do know how to copy and paste excerpts from my posts that allegedly purport to support your contentions.

[Dan Sullivan]

Yes I did ask, but I primarily asked for suggestions regarding the contents of the bill. You offered none of that and the only suggestion you had that had any value was what you quoted here.

Other than that, the rest of your posts were filled with criticism and immature sarcasm and you also said that I'd be setting back CPS reform 20 years and suggested that I'd not only be ruining a politician's career but I might also kill him. I would say maybe your "poor memory" prevented you from remembering all your wonderful posts but you do know how to copy and paste excerpts from my posts that allegedly purport to support your contentions.

Bob wrote "...I'm open to any and all suggestions..."

And my memory is fine.

Do you remember when I posted that submitting the bill would be political suicide and you didn't disagree with my opinion?

In fact you wrote "I could care less, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain, I don't need to imagine anything about a fat, lazy politician's political future."

As you can imagine I am very curious as to the reaction of the legislators regarding the contents of your "bill."

Keep me posted.

BTW opinions and suggestions can contain criticism and sarcasm... and humor.

So don't be surprised if you get more than you asked for.

[Bob_Lynn]

Do you remember when I posted that submitting the bill would be political suicide and you didn't disagree with my opinion?

In fact you wrote "I could care less, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain, I don't need to imagine anything about a fat, lazy politician's political future."

You're right, I didn't specifically agree nor disagree with that particular opinion of yours because I saw it as utterly ridiculous and irrelevant. What I posted in reply though is accurate. If I'm able to help save any family with what I'm trying to do and somehow end up sacrificing political careers in the process (laughable at best), it's well worth it. I'm not here to help or save political careers, I'm here to try to help end human rights atrocities.

As you can imagine I am very curious as to the reaction of the legislators regarding the contents of your "bill."

So am I but definitely not for the same reasons as you.

Keep me posted.

Count on it.

BTW opinions and suggestions can contain criticism and sarcasm... and humor.

So don't be surprised if you get more than you asked for.

In your case, that's about 98% of what I can expect so it won't surprise me in the least. I will certainly be shocked if you actually helped with this endeavor, since you haven't so far and instead done your part to attempt to derail it.

[Dan Sullivan]

BTW opinions and suggestions can contain criticism and sarcasm... and humor.

So don't be surprised if you get more than you asked for.

In your case, that's about 98% of what I can expect so it won't surprise me in the least. I will certainly be shocked if you actually helped with this endeavor, since you haven't so far and instead done your part to attempt to derail it.

What have I done, other than to post my opinions, that would lead you to believe I "attempt(ed) to derail" your bill?

[Bob_Lynn]

What have I done, other than to post my opinions, that would lead you to believe I "attempt(ed) to derail" your bill?

Other than posting your opinions there's nothing you could do to try to derail what I'm trying to accomplish (thankfully).

You did however post nothing but negativity, criticism, sarcasm and inane nonsense about destroying political careers and killing politicians. You never posted one iota of encouragement (not that I need any from you), no positive or constructive suggestions regarding content and in fact said that after reading it, you didn't want any part of it (yet you did take part in opposition).

I take it by asking me, you don't see that as an attempt to derail what I'm trying to accomplish?

[Dan Sullivan]

What have I done, other than to post my opinions, that would lead you to believe I "attempt(ed) to derail" your bill?

Other than posting your opinions there's nothing you could do to try to derail what I'm trying to accomplish (thankfully).

The question was "what have I done."

Not what I could do.

If I've done nothing but post my opinions, what are you referring to?

You did however post nothing but negativity, criticism, sarcasm and inane nonsense about destroying political careers and killing politicians. You never posted one iota of encouragement (not that I need any from you), no positive or constructive suggestions regarding content and in fact said that after reading it, you didn't want any part of it (yet you did take part in opposition).

"Nothing but negativity, etc...?"

"...never posted one iota of encouragement, no positive or constructive suggestions regarding content?"

Did you forget that I wrote, "Why don't you explain the problems to the legislator and ask him for his recommendations. Maybe he'll put you in touch with one of his aides who could guide you through the process of writing a proper bill."

I take it by asking me, you don't see that as an attempt to derail what I'm trying to accomplish?

No, I don't.

[Bob_Lynn]

Let me ask you a question Dan.

You make claims regarding "beating CPS" and successfully helping umpteen families being victimized by CPS. In fact, you boast incessantly about your alleged accomplishments. So let's assume that's all true and you are a real expert at this.

What have you done or are currently doing to try to help end these human rights atrocities? I mean, you may be able to help a family here and there but you know that there is no end to this garbage unless you take an active position to try end it. This could go on forever if people do nothing to try to end it.

In my opinion, if you really had all this expertise, you would also be instrumental in knowing how best to approach and attack this problem and I imagine you would exert all your effort in trying to end this problem. Yet I see none of this from you and see only the opposite.

I'm just wondering (out loud) if you're somehow profitting from helping families and that if this problem disappeared, there goes your profitable business. It's not exactly like this isn't a huge profit making industry for many people. Are people paying you to help them?

[Dan Sullivan]

Let me ask you a question Dan.

You make claims regarding "beating CPS" and successfully helping umpteen families being victimized by CPS. In fact, you boast incessantly about your alleged accomplishments. So let's assume that's all true and you are a real expert at this.

I never claimed I was an expert.

That's the opinion of Doug Quirmbach.

I consider myself highly schooled and accomplished in helping people/families prevail over CPS.

A Judge in NY told me it was almost a miracle to get a founded CPS determination reversed.

I've done it (for myself) five times.

The last four without an attny.

Dozens of times I've helped other people in NY get their findings reversed.

And I've helped get a couple of dozen kids back to their parents from CPS FC.

And it isn't "incessantly."

It's just when some challenges my intentions or qualifications.

What have you done or are currently doing to try to help end these human rights atrocities? I mean, you may be able to help a family here and there but you know that there is no end to this garbage unless you take an active position to try end it. This could go on forever if people do nothing to try to end it.

A family here and there?

You have no idea what it's like to hear a man on the phone crying that he'd received the notification that he was no longer going to be on the New York State Child Abuse and Neglect Registry for the sexual abuse of his daughter.

Or a grandfather.

Or a mother who was founded for molesting her son, who was challenged with Down's Syndrome.

You have no idea what it's like to hear a father crying on the phone that he was told to pick up his daughter the next afternoon, the day before her first birthday.

Or the mother who was getting her two kids back.

Or the other mother who got her two kids back in spite of the fact that her husband took off when the investigation started.

I learned what I know because I beat the system myself... not that I lost my children... but what I did learn I applied to getting kids back from CPS FC... and it worked there, too.

That's what I do, Bob.

You want to do something different... that's up to you.

In my opinion, if you really had all this expertise, you would also be instrumental in knowing how best to approach and attack this problem and I imagine you would exert all your effort in trying to end this problem.

I know how to beat CPS on the family level.

I also know the accumulation of wins at this level caused Judge Pallmeyer to make a devestating ruling against CPS.

What evidence are you going to produce for the legislators to demonstrate that families need a Family Rights Law to protect them from CPS?

Have you not thought about that, Bob?

What's your justification for your bill?

Yet I see none of this from you and see only the opposite.

What's the opposite?

The fact that you don't like what I have to say about the "bill" you're working on, or how you expect it to be introduced into the Pennsylvania legislature?

I'm just wondering (out loud) if you're somehow profitting from helping families and that if this problem disappeared, there goes your profitable business.

You think CPS is going to disappear?

When was the last time a law was passed anywhere that weakened CPS?

It's not exactly like this isn't a huge profit making industry for many people. Are people paying you to help them?

What is it worth for a man or woman to have their names removed from a Child Abuse Registry?

What's it worth for a family to get their son or daughter back from CPS FC, and have a Judge determine that they never maltreated their children?

[Bob_Lynn]

You have no idea what it's like to hear a man on the phone crying that he'd received the notification that he was no longer going to be on the New York State Child Abuse and Neglect Registry for the sexual abuse of his daughter.

Or a grandfather.

Or a mother who was founded for molesting her son, who was challenged with Down's Syndrome.

You have no idea what it's like to hear a father crying on the phone that he was told to pick up his daughter the next afternoon, the day before her first birthday.

Or the mother who was getting her two kids back.

Or the other mother who got her two kids back in spite of the fact that her husband took off when the investigation started.

I have no idea what it's like??? Either you do have brain damage (ahem, I mean a bad memory) or you're just being your usual pretentious BS artist self.

To remind you, I had my 2 sons and my granddaughter kidnapped and held hostage for 105 days. Up until the last 2 weeks of what I consider one of the worst periods of my life, I had no idea if and when I would ever get them back. You said that never happened to you so it's you who has no idea. You don't know what it's like to have a family devastated like that and to hear everyone crying on a daily basis and that included me doing some of that crying. Who the f... are you to tell me I have no idea?

What evidence are you going to produce for the legislators to demonstrate that families need a Family Rights Law to protect them from CPS?

Have you not thought about that, Bob?

What's your justification for your bill?

Are you serious? What kind of idiotic questions are these? Actually, I do know why you ask such ridiculous questions that anyone in this forum can answer. I now know exactly where your heart is and you and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

The fact that you don't like what I have to say about the "bill" you're working on, or how you expect it to be introduced into the Pennsylvania legislature?

Now that I know your true nature, I can fully understand why you're doing what you're doing. I thought it was really strange (to say the least) that you took the position that you took as a person who allegedly works against CPS but now I see why.

What is it worth for a man or woman to have their names removed from a Child Abuse Registry?

What's it worth for a family to get their son or daughter back from CPS FC, and have a Judge determine that they never maltreated their children?

The question should be, what is it worth to you? And herein lies Mr. CPS Dan Sullivan's true heart, it's all about $$$money$$$. Bob Fletcher had you almost dead right, You make money off the misery of families. How much do they pay you CPS Dan? $100/hr, $200/hr, $300/hr? More? Did you make enough yet to buy a Mercedes?

You are not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. And it's now very clear why you want to try to derail what I'm trying to do.

Let me ask you another $64,000 question CPS Dan while you're wearing the Emperor's new clothes. Since you have such a thriving business living off people's nightmares, how many anonymous phone calls have you made to drum up your business?

Unlike you, I have a real job and do what I can to help people for free, on my own time, that's a huge difference between you and me.

And finally Mr. CPS Dan, I have every intention of using the rest of my life to try to put people like you out of business. Thanks for giving me some additional incentive (not that I needed any).

[Chaco]

Can't you admit you were wrong, Chaco?

When I'm wrong, I admit it. Too bad you're too ignorant to know that YOU WROTE A POST. BAWHAWHAHAHAHA.

Chaco

[Chaco]

Now that I know your true nature, I can fully understand why you're doing what you're doing.

As much as I agree with your anger towards Dan here Bob, I have to defend Dan this time and say that I don't think he's an uneducated CPS worker. I don't think he's SMART enough to be one! Add to that the fact that I don't believe he WORKS at all.

Everything else you said is totally justified and/or RIGHT ON!

Chaco

[Bob_Lynn]

I didn't say Dan is a CPS worker, I called him CPS Dan because he's a colluder. In my opinion, anyone who profits from CPS' exploitation of children and destruction of families is a colluder. Those kinds of people have no interest in helping to end the CPS human rights atrocities because that would put an end to their very profitable business.

I couldn't quite put my finger on what kind of person Dan is until I confronted him with what he's getting out of it, because some of his posts seemed like they were helpful and others were very protective of CPS and the status quo, especially my efforts to change the laws. But the fishy smell was getting really putrid and I'm not the only person here who smelled him out for not being genuine. I felt his heart was not in the right place almost from when he first started posting here. The "attitude" he displayed in his posts spoke loud and clear.

There are also the highly suspicious threads that have been started in this forum that did not fool several of us one iota that have sleeze written all over them.

Now I understand what all his bragging about his alleged "accomplishments" and his criticisms of efforts to break the back of CPS are all about.

Like I said in an earlier post, if his heart is not in the right place he should get the f... out of this forum.

[Dan Sullivan]

I didn't say Dan is a CPS worker, I called him CPS Dan because he's a colluder.

I'm not a "colluder."

So stop calling me "CPS Dan."

I couldn't quite put my finger on what kind of person Dan is until I confronted him with what he's getting out of it,

And I'm getting more out of it than what I should?

I felt his heart was not in the right place almost from when he first started posting here.

Really?

My first 140 (or so) posts were simply links to each state's CPS manual or rules and regulations, and other information that people could use to fight CPS.

Look it up.

The "attitude" he displayed in his posts spoke loud and clear.

Hey! I'm Irish and from Noo Yawk.

When I was a kid I had tougher debates with my brother and sisters about who was gonna eat the last bowl of the breakfast cereal.

There are also the highly suspicious threads that have been started in this forum that did not fool several of us one iota that have sleeze written all over them.

WOW! I missed them.

Now I understand what all his bragging about his alleged "accomplishments" and his criticisms of efforts to break the back of CPS are all about.

I didn't criticize your efforts.

I criticized what the "bill" contained and the fact that you don't seem to care that it would be political suicide for a legislator to introduced the "bill' (as it was posted) to the Legislature.

Like I said in an earlier post, if his heart is not in the right place he should get the f... out of this forum.

All my organs are intact and in their proper place.