http://www.beanswers.com/pages/dcsa.htm
Everyone should read this... top to bottom.
Happy Holidays, Dan Sullivan
Dealing with the Child Service Agencies - EXCELLENT INFO!
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Dan Sullivan
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gideonmacleish
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I think, as apparently you do, that the issue of "cooperating with social workers" is one of the grey areas we have to deal with in our day to day dealings. In our case, at no time have we been uncooperative, nor given them reason to believe we are. We have been calculated, systematic, and we have requested they respect our rights. This particular agency has so far done as we requested.
We realize we could be uncooperative and still within our legal rights. But we also realize that such behaviour could possibly jeopardize the placement of our children on a temporary basis, and that any decision on our part must be made with that in mind. We've given the agency more than we need to give them, but we've done so with the intent of establishing a positive relationship with the agency so that we can help other families with greater need. One positive that came out of our CPS contact is that I am able to distribute information through their agency about a food program for needy families that can help them in helping other families.
Excellent link, though! Thanks for the info.
We realize we could be uncooperative and still within our legal rights. But we also realize that such behaviour could possibly jeopardize the placement of our children on a temporary basis, and that any decision on our part must be made with that in mind. We've given the agency more than we need to give them, but we've done so with the intent of establishing a positive relationship with the agency so that we can help other families with greater need. One positive that came out of our CPS contact is that I am able to distribute information through their agency about a food program for needy families that can help them in helping other families.
Excellent link, though! Thanks for the info.
Dan,
I wonder if you could put this on the research forum.
It is excellent material and many can be helped by it.
I wonder if you could put this on the research forum.
It is excellent material and many can be helped by it.
**********************************
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom
To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).
Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour
"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom
To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).
Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour
"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1
The only problem I have with coperating with any one is the fact that I would be putting myself under their jurisdiction by contracting with them through the "coperation"
Dan
Dan
"They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys. It has worked well for over two hundred years and we're not using it anymore." George Carlin
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Dan Sullivan
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sob900 wrote:The only problem I have with coperating with any one is the fact that I would be putting myself under their jurisdiction by contracting with them through the "coperation"
Dan
If CPS has removed your children and they want you to take a parenting course or another appropriate service, you still wouldn't look to show constructive cooperation?
NO cooperation and CPS and the Courts have no reason to return your children.
Best, Dan
NO cooperation and CPS and the Courts have no reason to return your children.
Sure they have a reason to return my son. Something called NOT having a contract between them and me and if there was, there was non disclosure, coercion and duress wich makes any contracts null and void. Plain and simple end of story.
Dan
Sure they have a reason to return my son. Something called NOT having a contract between them and me and if there was, there was non disclosure, coercion and duress wich makes any contracts null and void. Plain and simple end of story.
Dan
"They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys. It has worked well for over two hundred years and we're not using it anymore." George Carlin
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Dan Sullivan
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Frustrated
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That is easy!! Just be the boss of them. You can still co-operate but you still get to call the shots. It will show that you co-operated but to your wishes. Just like Gideon did. He co-operated but they have to do what he says. I think if we are the Boss of our own Families, then it would run smoothly!!! 
Make sure they are not the boss and the controller of our Children.
What would you do if a stranger comes by and talks to your Children? You protect them of course! by ALL Costs! CPS Workers ARE Strangers. We teach our Children "do not talk to strangers" and the CPS Workers makes it too easy to ask them questions where they knew they are not supposed to talk to strangers? That is confusing for Children!? So if we control and protect our Children, we tell them do not over step the boundaries and hurt the Children by asking repetitive and suggestive questions.
I told them, "why did you put the name of the maltreater or abuser into the questions".
They gulped. They knew they made a mistake.
Make sure they are not the boss and the controller of our Children.
What would you do if a stranger comes by and talks to your Children? You protect them of course! by ALL Costs! CPS Workers ARE Strangers. We teach our Children "do not talk to strangers" and the CPS Workers makes it too easy to ask them questions where they knew they are not supposed to talk to strangers? That is confusing for Children!? So if we control and protect our Children, we tell them do not over step the boundaries and hurt the Children by asking repetitive and suggestive questions.
I told them, "why did you put the name of the maltreater or abuser into the questions".
They gulped. They knew they made a mistake.
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DesertSkye
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If the courts order
I would only do so if court ordered
Other than that they would get no cooperation from me
Sure it took 260 days to get my DD back BUT
On their Case plan...they weren't going to even consider returning her until April 2006 which would have been around420 days!
So IMHO
Don't "cooperate" unless the court orders it
Be polite and stand your ground but don't show emotion and don't be hostile
thats as far as they gotwith me on cooperating!
Other than that they would get no cooperation from me
Sure it took 260 days to get my DD back BUT
On their Case plan...they weren't going to even consider returning her until April 2006 which would have been around420 days!
So IMHO
Don't "cooperate" unless the court orders it
Be polite and stand your ground but don't show emotion and don't be hostile
thats as far as they gotwith me on cooperating!
A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,
We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
As much or more we should ourselves complain.
William Shakespeare
We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
As much or more we should ourselves complain.
William Shakespeare
sometimes the best thing to do is blow smoke up their butts, do things they think they say and make them think they have you when all along you are playing them,, it's like hanging a mouse in front of a cat untill you get your hands on the cat,, they think they have you but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, you have your child,,, so who played who,,, whatever it takes to get your babies but only with the exception of giving up God (which they don't do). There is no justice sweeter than throughing someone elses plan back on them.
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Dan Sullivan
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RKeyser wrote:sometimes the best thing to do is blow smoke up their butts, do things they think they say and make them think they have you when all along you are playing them,, it's like hanging a mouse in front of a cat untill you get your hands on the cat,, they think they have you but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, you have your child,,, so who played who,,, whatever it takes to get your babies but only with the exception of giving up God (which they don't do). There is no justice sweeter than throughing someone elses plan back on them.
Constructive cooperation is doing whatever is necessary and appropriate.
Parenting classes are always good. Make sure the agreement has a set time frame for the course... like ten classes and you get a certificate of completion. You do NOT agree to go to a parenting class that never ends!!!
If there's no problem with anger... no anger management courses.
If there's no drug or alcohol use... not drug or alcohol counseling.
The LEAST someone should do is parenting classes.
And while this is going on you gather all the evidence that there was no neglect or abuse to justify the removal.
And of course you point out all of CPS' lies when you're back in court.
Best, Dan
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DesertSkye
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I agree
And of course you point out all of CPS' lies when you're back in court.
Best, Dan
I agree but, the parenting classes at least here are a farce unless you are a brand new parent and neeed to learn how to diaper a baby
anyway....I agree but, we were never given the opportunity to put forth the lies they spewed........
Wonder how many actually are given that opportunity?
A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,
We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
As much or more we should ourselves complain.
William Shakespeare
We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
As much or more we should ourselves complain.
William Shakespeare
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Dan Sullivan
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- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:42 am
- Location: Long Island, New York
Re: I agree
DesertSkye wrote:And of course you point out all of CPS' lies when you're back in court.
Best, Dan
I agree but, the parenting classes at least here are a farce unless you are a brand new parent and neeed to learn how to diaper a baby
You have to do something to get your children back.
The least is parenting classes.
Dan
You do whatever it takes to get your children back. That means you have to determine for yourself what you believe it will take to get them back. Advice from anyone will only get you so far as there are no pat answers.
In most cases, you don't do anything that's not court ordered, however, that will not necessarily mean that's the best strategy that will get your children back.
Once you get your children back and the vultures no longer have their claws into you, you then decide if you want to bite back (lawsuit, etc.). Sometimes, the only way you have a chance to get your children back is to file a federal lawsuit but you have to weigh all your options short of that first.
In most cases, you don't do anything that's not court ordered, however, that will not necessarily mean that's the best strategy that will get your children back.
Once you get your children back and the vultures no longer have their claws into you, you then decide if you want to bite back (lawsuit, etc.). Sometimes, the only way you have a chance to get your children back is to file a federal lawsuit but you have to weigh all your options short of that first.
Advice from anyone will only get you so far as there are no pat answers.
I agree! After a few months of being into this we found what works for one does not work for another.
It all depends on your state, your county, your caseworker, your lawyer, your judge.
I honestly believe if it had not been for our judge being righteous we would have never got our granddaughter back.
**********************************
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom
To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).
Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour
"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1
This is not legal advice;hopefully wisdom
To put it in simple terms…when the authorities ARE the perpetrators and the perpetrators ARE the authorities, there is no earthly justice or recourse, at the end of the day (unless the American people wake up).
Therefore, those who have achieved the highest levels of power seek to ‘enjoy’ the most grievous and extreme injustices. For many of those in the highest circles of power, the greatest statement of power is to perpetrate the greatest possible injustice…the savage, brutal traumatization and abuse of an innocent child.
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/ MattTwoFour
"Ultimately, the law is only as good as the judge" --- D.X. Yue, 2005, in "law, reason and judicial fraud"
http://www.parentalrightsandjustice.com/index.cgi?ctype=Page;site_id=1;objid=45;curloc=Site:1
Quote from Dan "Constructive cooperation is doing whatever is necessary and appropriate."
I must ask Dan,, who is it necessary and appropriate for? The parents? The children? Or the CPS workers? After all THEY are the ones who think YOU need to know how to be a parent.
Quote from Dan "Parenting classes are always good. Make sure the agreement has a set time frame for the course... like ten classes and you get a certificate of completion. You do NOT agree to go to a parenting class that never ends!!!"
My dad and his wife went through the classes and it's still not ending.
Quote from Dan " If there's no drug or alcohol use... not drug or alcohol counseling."
My dad was accused of alcohol abuse (which he never had a problem with alcohol) but no classes,, just wrongful accusations.
Quote from Dan " The LEAST someone should do is parenting classes."
Why? How taught these people to teach someone how to me a "proper" parent?
Quote from Dan " And while this is going on you gather all the evidence that there was no neglect or abuse to justify the removal."
My dad's been there and done that and no one cares,, not cps, the judge, nor the FAKE lawyer they had.
Quote from Dan "And of course you point out all of CPS' lies when you're back in court."
Now after reading what so many people have posted on this site I must ask,,, who does the court believe? The parent or cps? My dad and his wife had their toilet paper known as their "certificate of completion" for their part in parenting classes and again NO ONE CARED.
Dan I believe you are a nice and helpful person in so many ways hun, but really,, how many people has this worked for? On a scale of 1-10 I would say,, -11. I do agree in following many things they say but to use them to your advantage to get your kids back,, like I said "blowing smoke up their butts"
I must ask Dan,, who is it necessary and appropriate for? The parents? The children? Or the CPS workers? After all THEY are the ones who think YOU need to know how to be a parent.
Quote from Dan "Parenting classes are always good. Make sure the agreement has a set time frame for the course... like ten classes and you get a certificate of completion. You do NOT agree to go to a parenting class that never ends!!!"
My dad and his wife went through the classes and it's still not ending.
Quote from Dan " If there's no drug or alcohol use... not drug or alcohol counseling."
My dad was accused of alcohol abuse (which he never had a problem with alcohol) but no classes,, just wrongful accusations.
Quote from Dan " The LEAST someone should do is parenting classes."
Why? How taught these people to teach someone how to me a "proper" parent?
Quote from Dan " And while this is going on you gather all the evidence that there was no neglect or abuse to justify the removal."
My dad's been there and done that and no one cares,, not cps, the judge, nor the FAKE lawyer they had.
Quote from Dan "And of course you point out all of CPS' lies when you're back in court."
Now after reading what so many people have posted on this site I must ask,,, who does the court believe? The parent or cps? My dad and his wife had their toilet paper known as their "certificate of completion" for their part in parenting classes and again NO ONE CARED.
Dan I believe you are a nice and helpful person in so many ways hun, but really,, how many people has this worked for? On a scale of 1-10 I would say,, -11. I do agree in following many things they say but to use them to your advantage to get your kids back,, like I said "blowing smoke up their butts"
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Frustrated
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I have took Lamaze Classes when I was pregnant, and there was some parenting skills attached to it, and they say it is mostly
learning how "to diaper a baby and how to parent" a younger child. But they don't teach "how to parent a 12 yrs old with a severe disorder", do they?
That is a difference. We need more technical depth in how to learn parenting to a most difficult child like teenager rebellion, and kids with disorders, like teaching parents how to handle a retarted child. They are very uncontrollable, and very violent, and viligant.
CPS and Parenting classes HAS NO CLUE HOW to handle a most difficult, violent child, can they?
learning how "to diaper a baby and how to parent" a younger child. But they don't teach "how to parent a 12 yrs old with a severe disorder", do they?
That is a difference. We need more technical depth in how to learn parenting to a most difficult child like teenager rebellion, and kids with disorders, like teaching parents how to handle a retarted child. They are very uncontrollable, and very violent, and viligant.
CPS and Parenting classes HAS NO CLUE HOW to handle a most difficult, violent child, can they?
Frustrated
truer words not spoken,, I have 3 teenagers and let me tell yaw,,, it was way easier when they were little, my dad who is also on this site not only has teens lol but babies and he told me as a kid it was hard and the way he taught me was carried over to my kids,, I praise God for what my daddy taught me and praise God I have good kids,, I can tell you one thing,,, my kids don't sas, where I can hear them lol, and never yell back when punished,, I do try to be fair with them but as all of us with older kids (well, babies too) they are all different and we treat them for what they need,,, I sometimes think it's the kids who need a "who to take of parent classes) LOL,, just kidding.
truer words not spoken,, I have 3 teenagers and let me tell yaw,,, it was way easier when they were little, my dad who is also on this site not only has teens lol but babies and he told me as a kid it was hard and the way he taught me was carried over to my kids,, I praise God for what my daddy taught me and praise God I have good kids,, I can tell you one thing,,, my kids don't sas, where I can hear them lol, and never yell back when punished,, I do try to be fair with them but as all of us with older kids (well, babies too) they are all different and we treat them for what they need,,, I sometimes think it's the kids who need a "who to take of parent classes) LOL,, just kidding.
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Frustrated
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Yeah I understand what you mean, you don't allow their talking back or whatnots, but my Son is different, he has Oppositional Defiant Disorder, which is WAY difficult to control, he talks back constantly, very physical violent, throw stuff around, aggressive, don't listen, don't do well with authority figures, swears, and disrespect to people. He is THAT BAD. But I have learned of ways to control him and to teach him respect, and things like that, it takes a long time and a lot of patience. CPS thinks they can do it, they told me themselves, they said "we have certain people that has special training to control Kids like that". I said "really?"
Ok, go get him, see if you can do it, then they said "no, it is okay".
LOL
they couldn't do it. ya know they were bluffin'. They knew that my Son is very very difficult child to control, he is way worst than Problem child on the movie. And they had the gall to tell me to learn how to relieve stress? I am learning alright....with LOTS of PATIENCE. They don't have the patience, they just get rid of them happily. That is what they do anyways in Foster Care, as I did some research, that they always change Kids with disorders every two months to another Foster Care, the Kids has changed already to 10 times in Foster Care within a Year! Foster Care Parents don't know how to handle them. So out they go, to another and another, and another.....and the story goes on.
It is the Foster Parents that needs Parenting Classes. I do believe that, because they abuses them, and neglects them, and they don't know how to look after them properly, they just want a check in their pockets.
Ok, go get him, see if you can do it, then they said "no, it is okay".
LOL
they couldn't do it. ya know they were bluffin'. They knew that my Son is very very difficult child to control, he is way worst than Problem child on the movie. And they had the gall to tell me to learn how to relieve stress? I am learning alright....with LOTS of PATIENCE. They don't have the patience, they just get rid of them happily. That is what they do anyways in Foster Care, as I did some research, that they always change Kids with disorders every two months to another Foster Care, the Kids has changed already to 10 times in Foster Care within a Year! Foster Care Parents don't know how to handle them. So out they go, to another and another, and another.....and the story goes on.
It is the Foster Parents that needs Parenting Classes. I do believe that, because they abuses them, and neglects them, and they don't know how to look after them properly, they just want a check in their pockets.
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Dan Sullivan
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- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:42 am
- Location: Long Island, New York
RKeyser wrote:Dan I believe you are a nice and helpful person in so many ways hun, but really,, how many people has this worked for? On a scale of 1-10 I would say,, -11. I do agree in following many things they say but to use them to your advantage to get your kids back,, like I said "blowing smoke up their butts"
Over the last four years I've helped get a couple of dozen kids back to their families.
I'm sorry to hear about your father.
But what I suggested I've found is the most successful method of satisfying the Court to get children returned.
The only two times it wasn't successful was in Alabama where a woman was also arrested for criminal abuse and in Missouri where the mother had a huge law suit against the school district and the school had CPS remove her children to squash the suit.
In my experience re getting children removed by CPS returned to their families... on a scale of 1 - 10 it's a 10.
Best, Dan Sullivan
Last edited by Dan Sullivan on Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dan Sullivan wrote:Over the last four years I've helped get a couple of dozen kids back to their families.
Wow Dan, that's excellent. If I do the math correctly, that's 24 children in 4 years, 6 each year and one every other month. If you start a franchise and patent your formula for getting children back from CPS, this whole problem should be solved in about a year.
Amazing, I'm so impressed!
Aren't we together in this fight to keep CPS from wrongfully persecuting us and removing our children? Can we stop the fights, pretty please? Start 2006 on a fresh start?
I know I'm going to do my best no matter how stressed I am not to jump down people's throats or make stupid arguments over semantics.
Get along, please!! We can't fight united if we keep bickering between ourselves.
<hugs>
I know I'm going to do my best no matter how stressed I am not to jump down people's throats or make stupid arguments over semantics.
Get along, please!! We can't fight united if we keep bickering between ourselves.
<hugs>
I agree Scarfyrre, but there are many people who take advantage of the plight of victims and many of those seek out anyone who sounds good in desparation because they fall for their nonsense and sometimes end up in a much worse situation.
There are so many people out there that are desparate because as I'm sure most of us who post here know, having one's children kidnapped and held hostage by the government is one of the most devastating things that can happen to a family and puts the parent(s) in a state of mind where they can't think very clearly, so it opens them up to the many scammers who infest our ranks. Many of those are professionals, such as attorneys.
We can't be blind to those facts and those of us who know better should warn others about these vultures.
(note I am not referencing any one in particular, I'm just making a general statement)
There are so many people out there that are desparate because as I'm sure most of us who post here know, having one's children kidnapped and held hostage by the government is one of the most devastating things that can happen to a family and puts the parent(s) in a state of mind where they can't think very clearly, so it opens them up to the many scammers who infest our ranks. Many of those are professionals, such as attorneys.
We can't be blind to those facts and those of us who know better should warn others about these vultures.
(note I am not referencing any one in particular, I'm just making a general statement)
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