Another unjustified removal.

[Dan Sullivan]

(a synopsis)

I am the mother of a baby who was removed by CPS.

I was diagnosed as bi-polar over 10 years ago and take three medications on a daily basis.

What happened was my boyfriend and I were fighting and I tried to overdose to get his attention.

But I threw up the pills.

We waited a few hours to see if I was alright and I was, so my boyfriend went over to his friend's house to look for job.

Then I called my psychiatrist to get more pills and while I was telling her the story she freaked out and called the police.

Before the police came I called my boyfriend and unfortunately he had been drinking.

Then they took my baby.

Later I signed a service plan.

Therapy, parenting classes. alcohol and drug counseling, etc, etc...

My boyfriend failed the drug tests twice for cocaine and meth.

So you know, he has never worked and I pay his child support.

The day before my first hearing we got married because I thought it would help.

But it didn't so then they told me I had to file for divorce, which I did.

I know this sounds like a conspiracy and I really think it is.

To sum it up, the baby was removed because I had post-partum depression.

I never abused or neglected my baby and the proof is I changed her diaper and fed her right before the police came.

The trial is in three weeks.

[Dan Sullivan]

Anyone think this removal was UNjustified?

[kdddav'swife]

She needs to get rid of that husband RIGHT NOW and STOP paying the child support that HE is responsible for. She also needs to find some counseling on her own with someone not directly connected to CPS. As much as I hate to have to say this a situation where there is drinking, illegal drugs and a suicide attempt is a bad situation for a baby to be in. This is another example of where CPS SHOULD be involved. The child should be placed with relatives temporarily and then returned to the mother when she has dumped the loser, agreed to counseling. Then when all is well and good and has been for at least six monthes her CPS record should be expunged.

I realize that there are other factors here like her bi polar disorder.

[Dan Sullivan]

She needs to get rid of that husband RIGHT NOW and STOP paying the child support that HE is responsible for. She also needs to find some counseling on her own with someone not directly connected to CPS. As much as I hate to have to say this a situation where there is drinking, illegal drugs and a suicide attempt is a bad situation for a baby to be in.

"Bad" is an understatement.

This is another example of where CPS SHOULD be involved. The child should be placed with relatives temporarily and then returned to the mother when she has dumped the loser, agreed to counseling.

"Dump the loser and agree to counseling" and the mother gets the infant back?

I don't think it should be that fast.

FYI I believe the statistics are 20% of people suffering with bi-polar disorder commit suicide even when they're on medication.

Then when all is well and good and has been for at least six monthes her CPS record should be expunged.

I realize that there are other factors here like her bi polar disorder.

Why should her CPS caserecord be expunged?

This individual needs to be professionally monitored for a very long time, with or without custody of the baby.

JMO, Dan

[kdddav'swife]

I just think that people should not have to worry that CPS will be forever watching over them waiting in the wings to take their children. Maybe I should have elaborated a bit more. When this mother has proved that she is stable her child should be returned. I agree that she needs to be monitered in some way before she is off the hook entirely. I have a good friend who found out in her late 30s that she was bi polar and she is a good parent. Many bi polar people can be good parents as long as they are stable and stay on their meds without overdosing for attention.

If this lady can complete her case plan and counseling ect and is willing to monitering-however often they want her to do it then she should have her child returned when she has proven stability. I still think that she should try to get a counselor outside of CPS- pardon me but from what I have heard on this board and on AFRA I believe that the ones CPS uses are just looking for reasons to keep the kids in the system. Oh and when the child is returned the monitering should continue for as long as needed.

If the father wants to see the child he needs to get clean and sober and stay that way.

I also believe that as far as expungement is concerned it should be done so that the actual record is only be accessible to law enforcement if there is another incident. What I mean to say is that no guidance counselor at her kids school should be able to look up her records 4 or 5 years from now when she has long since proven that she is a good stable parent. Look at what happened to my husband and I. It is a good thing that he was out of state that day. I am not sure exactly what lies the investigator told the police man but we later found out that he came ready to arrest my husband apparently based on whatever my daughter "told" the evil guidance counselor.

[RKeyser]

I must say,, I don't believe this case is unjustified, however, it also spells like a small, umm,, story,, not something one might see a person really say, instead they might would make up a story to make themself look good or victomized

[BReal]

I'm sure the men will be glad to know that not all bipolars who are immediate post partum wind up committing suicide. Now to Dan and the cynic who thinks I'm making up a story, I'm not, this is the truth. I private messaged Dan and I can't believe he put my story out there without asking me first - just goes to show you, don't trust anybody on this site. They are CPS most likely and are out to make you feel lousy and spy on you when you need good advise. By the way, to make you feel better, I signed my rights away 6 days ago. No need to worry about monitoring me or returning her to her parents.

[Dazeemay]

They are CPS most likely and are out to make you feel lousy and spy on you when you need good advise.

Not all of us are CPS.

I am sorry you were judged so harshly on this site. I am especially sad that you signed your rights away. No parent no matter how ill should have their parental rights taken away. It is your God given right to be a parent. They were suppose to help you and guide you and even if your child had to live with somebody for you to be able to see him/her and love him/her.


We are not suppose to judge a person just give them advise.

Who do we think we are when we do? We don't like cps judging us and why should we judge someone on this site. It is not our place, but that does not help you now.

Dan should have never posted your private message to him even in a disguised way.

For your information Dan was the only man who posted and the other posters were women.

[Dan Sullivan]

I'm sure the men will be glad to know that not all bipolars who are immediate post partum wind up committing suicide.

I don't think anyone said that.

Now to Dan and the cynic who thinks I'm making up a story, I'm not, this is the truth. I private messaged Dan and I can't believe he put my story out there without asking me first - just goes to show you, don't trust anybody on this site.

I posted a completely anonymous story.

You want to say it's you, that's your decision.

They are CPS most likely and are out to make you feel lousy and spy on you when you need good advise.

I gave you the same advice I would have given to anyone in your situation.

By the way, to make you feel better, I signed my rights away 6 days ago. No need to worry about monitoring me or returning her to her parents.

I am very sorry to hear that.

Dan

[Dazeemay]

Dan said,

FYI I believe the statistics are 20% of people suffering with bi-polar disorder commit suicide even when they're on medication.

You inferred it.

I posted a completely anonymous story.

You want to say it's you, that's your decision.

Dan, you are always trying to save your own skin.

This mother is fighting an illness, the loss of her rights to her child/ren and then sees this post. How did you expect her to react.

Betrayed Dan, betrayed.

[Dan Sullivan]

Dan said,

FYI I believe the statistics are 20% of people suffering with bi-polar disorder commit suicide even when they're on medication.

You inferred it.

Actually the suicide rate is down to 15% of all the deaths of people with bipolar disorder.

That includes men and women, not just bipolar women with post partum depression.

I posted a completely anonymous story.

You want to say it's you, that's your decision.

Dan, you are always trying to save your own skin.

That's not true.

[good dad]

Dan ....posting someones pm, then saying
"I posted a completely anonymous story.
You want to say it's you, that's your decision"

Is the cherry on the top.. ...

Chasing people away....

Maybe you should look for a new site to "help" from....

With all your wisdom it should easy.....

[RKeyser]

omgosh that is so true, it's sad

[Dan Sullivan]

Dan ....posting someones pm, then saying
"I posted a completely anonymous story.
You want to say it's you, that's your decision"

Is the cherry on the top.. ...

Chasing people away....

I didn't post anyone's private message.

I posted a completely anonymous story.

And I didn't chase BReal away.

She posted twice (1-5, 2-15) prior to February 24th when I posted the anonymous story.

And over the following four weeks she made four more posts (3-4, 3-5, 3-20, 3-24).

So my post didn't chase her away.

[Dan Sullivan]

(a synopsis)

I am the mother of a baby who was removed by CPS.

I was diagnosed as bi-polar over 10 years ago and take three medications on a daily basis.

What happened was my boyfriend and I were fighting and I tried to overdose to get his attention.

But I threw up the pills.

We waited a few hours to see if I was alright and I was, so my boyfriend went over to his friend's house to look for job.

Then I called my psychiatrist to get more pills and while I was telling her the story she freaked out and called the police.

Before the police came I called my boyfriend and unfortunately he had been drinking.

Then they took my baby.

Later I signed a service plan.

Therapy, parenting classes. alcohol and drug counseling, etc, etc...

My boyfriend failed the drug tests twice for cocaine and meth.

So you know, he has never worked and I pay his child support.

The day before my first hearing we got married because I thought it would help.

But it didn't so then they told me I had to file for divorce, which I did.

I know this sounds like a conspiracy and I really think it is.

To sum it up, the baby was removed because I had post-partum depression.

I never abused or neglected my baby and the proof is I changed her diaper and fed her right before the police came.

The trial is in three weeks.

The reason I posted this anonymous story was because someone in a private message asked me for advice and I couldn't break thru their delusions to get them to see what the real problem was and what they would have to do to get their baby back from foster care.

I pieced together their information, changed the facts so no one could figure out who they were, and posted the "synopsis" with the hopes that other members of the NG would make suggestions and give advice similar to what I'd been saying so the person might realize with all those people saying the same things they might be right.

And other members of the NG did what I hoped they would do... they offered advice similar to what I had been saying in the private messages.

But the person who lost their baby failed to grasp what everybody was saying.

They failed to see how close they came to killing themselves.

They failed to see how dangerous the situation in the house was for their newborn with all the medications, cocaine, meth and alcohol use.

They blamed the removal on a conspiracy.

The story is fairly accurate so you can see how far from reality their thinking was.

If you check the posts they made after I wrote the story you'd see that they stopped going to their counselor... and quit going to their "shrink" because of a headline they read in a newspaper.

Some of you have claimed I posted someone's private message... but that's not true because the story was anonymous and the facts were changed so no one would ever have known who it was... until BReal said it was her story.

Notice that BReal wrote "Now to Dan and the cynic who thinks I'm making up a story, I'm not, this is the truth."

She still blames the removal on a conspiracy.

And "They are CPS most likely and are out to make you feel lousy and spy on you when you need good advise."

BReal got good advice... from me and the other people who responded to the story I posted.

And finally she writes " By the way, to make you feel better, I signed my rights away 6 days ago."

That doesn't make me or anyone else on this website feel better.

We all want people to be able to keep their children.

That's why I tried to get BReal to understand what the problem was.

That's why I posted the anonymous story, so other people would respond and make the same suggestions, which they did.

I'm not sorry I posted the story.

I'm just sorry it didn't get the results I hoped for.

[BReal]

Dan I quit going to the cps counselor because she lied straight faced to the court, judge and everyone in the courtroom about me and my baby's father. The ad litem said "Your doctors aren't happy with you", I know why. I quit going to the first and second psychiatrists because I know that they were working to have my baby removed from me. I am reluctant to see an MD who was written up in the Dallas Morning News "Joel Holiner MD does "couch time" with the government. The article exposes his overbilling the government to the tune of 2.1 million dollars. Would you trust this MD to be your shrink? He's unethical to overbill the government and then turn around & tell another branch of the government that he's unhappy with me! Now who do you trust, hope you don't say it's the government, an unethical MD who plays both sides of the fence. It's no conspiracy Dan, only the mere fact that my 13 month old is the cutest girl ever and will fetch a high price on the adoption market and they know it. I personal messaged you Dan because I THOUGHT you were fair, honest, discreet and wouldn't have a heyday putting my worst fears, anxieties, my story out for everyone to read and critique. It was only for you, I wrote in my first sentence to you that I RESPECTED your opinions. Well, honey not anymore. Your opinions are worse than your insight. Go do your damage to someone else's self esteem on another website, we can do without your sarcasm. It's funny that I found your betrayal after all of this was over anyway. Use better judgement in the future with your "trying to help." BReal

[mushiesmom]

BReal, at no time would anyone have known that what Dan posted was your story until YOU spoke up and stated it. The fact is it was posted as hypothetical and according to Dan done so you would see that others share his opinions on your situation. The fact is each and every case that CPS investigates in unique and must be investigated on a case by case basis. There is no quick fix to the mess. Bottom line as far as the hypothetical case goes, enabling drug use and excusing the behavior is harmful to "mom", child and the addict. And definately not a safe situation for a helpless child to be in.
While I do believe that the system is corrupt and that people have been treated unfairly myself included, that in no way should cause someone to essentially give up on themselves. Its obvious to me that the person, in the story originally posted, has serious issues and does need some type of intervention. Again not a safe situation for a baby to be in. There are probably people here that will argue with me and say that CPS "pushed" the mother to her attempt at suicide and forced her to give up her rights. To that I say, we have all been where she is and we are still here fighting. Even those of us whose cases have been unfounded. Mental instability and drug illegal use/abuse is a lethal combination. And while yes the mother was being treated for her "issues" she was still making poor decisions regarding her childs safety and well being. JMO

[RKeyser]

when a person trusts another person with this tye of info and the person for whom the info was given KNOWS the person giving the info has some serious problems, to put what the 1st person says will bring out many emotions from the person asking for help or giving the info,,,, if Dan was as smart as he tries to say he is, he would have known that!

[BReal]

I want to thank all of you for your honest opinions on my situation no matter how harsh or supportive. I have to "Let go and let God" now because I'm sure she's already adopted. I pray it is to a good and loving family. I need to focus on making my reality livable, REAL as possible, and learn something from all of this. Good luck to all of you and may all your dreams come true.

BReal

[Greegor]

Why didn't Dan warn the person ahead of time
that he was going to remove all identification
and post it anonymously to get the group's feedback?

Dan and his cohorts complain that Parents Rights
groups help people who had their kids removed
for legitimate reasons. They ridicule this.

I point out that even parents guilty of actual
neglect deserve the protection of the law.

Every family, with real abuse or not is
entitled to "Family Active Participation in
the FORMATION of the Service Plan" for example.

Having experienced a fraudulent case first hand,
where the agency IMPOSED a service plan
completely without that required "Family Active
participation in the FORMATION of the Service Plan"
I can tell you that some service plans are
so loaded up that the intention is to make
the service plan impossible to complete.

Several items on ours were totally baseless,
a few were totally impossible and sickly
caseworker attitudes were conveyed by
some others.

In addition they intentionally POISONED
some of the services with gossipy innuendo
or outright lies in the hopes of causing the
outcomes to be negative regardless of what
we did. They rigged services with hostile input.

I guess what I'm saying is that while Dan
doesn't believe in defending people he
himself judges as guilty based on his own standards,
I would assert that even guilty people
should never stipulate and be saddled
with one of these services plans that are
impossible to complete.

(Just like we can't void rights for a person
who obviously committed murder without
DUE PROCESS, guilty parents should not
have their DUE PROCESS rights ignored
in a dependency process!)

Does this Parents Rights group turn away
from parents who made a mistake and throw
them to the CPS wolves?

I hope not.

Some failings CPS uses for removal are
actually less harmful than the harm done
just by removing a child, regardless of reason.

Remember that the agencies even acknowledge
on paper that child removal is often intended
not to protect, but as leverage to coerce
capitulation and cooperation of the parents.
Sometimes it seems like a ransom or terrorism motive.

[Bob_Lynn]

Agreed Greegor, everyone must have equal rights and due process, there are NO EXCEPTIONS.

[Dazeemay]

Remember that the agencies even acknowledge
on paper that child removal is often intended
not to protect, but as leverage to coerce
capitulation and cooperation of the parents.

This is exactly what they tried to make our daughter do. She would not give in to them even though they had our granddaughter. We are very thankful for this site teaching us not to give in and sign.

[Dan Sullivan]

Why didn't Dan warn the person ahead of time
that he was going to remove all identification and post it anonymously to get the group's feedback?

Because I removed all identification, changed the facts and posted it as an anonymous story.

Dan and his cohorts complain that Parents Rights groups help people who had their kids removed for legitimate reasons. They ridicule this.

I can't believe you post this garbage, Greg.

You were a member of asCPS when I was challenged to show what I know by helping someone get their children out of foster care.

And Jennifer from Oregon joined the group looking for help.

She lost her three kids because she took meth just prior to giving birth to her twins... CPS removed the twins and her toddler, remember?????

And she used advice from me posted on the NG as well as in a bunch of phone calls, and she got her kids back.

And then I helped the poster from California, Nitetramp, get her baby back who unfortunately was removed for the same reason.

And then I was ridiculed for helping admitted child abusers get their kids back, remember?????

And it was also pointed out that none of the Parent's Rights groups did what I did which was help people who actually abused their children get their children back.

Remember, Greg???

Isn't that the truth???

[Bob_Lynn]

Isn't that the truth???

Your own words Dan:

As I said before, lies only reflect on the people caught making them

You have no credibility with many posters here. You constantly twist, omit and take posts out of context to support your convoluted arguments. You criticize, ridicule and belittle those who have legitimate points and agendas when it threatens your own personal agenda, which is strongly suspected to be CPS collusion. You have a constant need and propensity to brag about accomplishments that only make sense in fantasyland. By now, anything you post is suspect, even if it may have some merit. To be able to help people, one must be trusted that one has his/her heart in the right place. Once you are under suspicion of having a sinister agenda, you lose all trust and credibility.

Go away Dan.