But what about the kids????????

[mrbeansmom]

Post reuinification services would be needed to help the family restrengthen their ties and deal with issues that have come up DUE TO THE KIDS BEING OUT OF THE HOME. It is the most traumatic event a parent will ever go through besides the death of a child.

So, what would that look like? I'm wondering just because I, personally, would want them (cps) out of my life after I got my kids back. I believe I would be able to handle things on my own, and I can't imagine what they could possibly offer me that would help after hurting us so.

No we don't propose that the foster parents throw their hands up and walk away. That is ridiculous. What we want is reform and better policing of the foster parents. CPS will believe anything the children say negatively about the birth parents (and cps will blow it out of proportion). Yet, when the children say something against the precious foster parents, the complaints fall on deaf ears. Why is that? Can you answer that?

I think it goes both ways, but you just don't see it. I have known of and heard of many a foster home shut down by allegations, true and false. They even hold classes for foster parents on how to document everything and what to do when falsely accused. You seem to be under the impression that foster parents get some sort of a free pass. I'm here to tell you that simply isn't true. I can also tell you that CPS hates me because I have caused them total grief. I don't sit by and take things. When I see wrong things occur I stnad up for what I believe and I take it all the way to the top (with copies).

A good start in the reformation is that the foster parents grow some guts and speak up about the faults in the CPS system. If people that are positively directly involved withe CPS speak up, they may be heard better than embittered parents (the name cps likes to call us renegades).

Oh, believe me, they do indeed hear from me, and they have some much better names for me!:wink:

I haven't attacked you nor your intelligence but you seem to want to question mine. A civilized debate is one thing but you inferring that I don't know what I'm talking about is slightly offensive. I have done nothing but ask you clear cut questions and addressed certain issues without attacking you personally. I just hope you are open minded and open hearted enough to try to recognize what us birth parents go through during this process. I am willing to discuss this further with you unless you chose to attack me personally. I can not speak for others nor can I say you won't be attacked by others but I will not do that. Nothing is accomplished with personal attacks or insults.

Where exactly did I infer you don't know what you're talking about? I answered your questions in the same civil manner in which they were presented to me. I have not attacked you personally or otherwise. You obviously live somewhere I don't and there is a discrepancy between the regulations where you live and where I do. There also seems to be a discrepancy between our areas regarding things such as post reunification services and such. To state so is not an attack. When I get irritated is when people make blanket statements regarding services or foster parents or birth parents. There is much that is different about every state, every county, every foster home and every birth home. One simply cannot make a blanket statement and expect me to give it much credence.

[Dazeemay]

When parents don't show for a visit many times it is because cps, who out of anger, will cancel the visit for the parent and tell the foster parent they did not show.

We had this happen many times. Our case was out of state and we had to travel 4 and half hours to get there. Only to find that our visit was canceled. If we in any way made them mad they would cancel visits, phone calls etc. They used this as our punishment. Mean while they would tell the foster and our granddaughter we did not care.

We had a code for our granddaughter and through mail and email they figured it out after a few times. She knew cps canceled on all of us. Then the mail was not delivered to her and she was not to spend time on the computer.

She got up in the middle of the night and got on the computer and emailed us and erased what she had sent. This is when she went to another fosters home for the weekend. We were able to tell her of the times the caseworker would get mad about something we did. The judge ordered that we be allowed visitations and they didn't follow the order and kept us from her.

Then the times we did get to visit it was in their observation room.
They still did not catch on to the fact that we had other ways of telling our granddaughter why we did not show. I won't go into that here.

CPS has the power to punish the parent until the parent gives up.
Reunification does not work in many cases because they keep changing what the parent has to do to meet the reunification.

We had to help my daughter fight and many times she was so worn out she could hardly function by the trauma of fighting cps and relatives who were after our granddaughters.

She lost a very lucrative job because of their actions. Many parents on here lost jobs, homes, etc.

[Frustrated]

YES! I agree with Dazzemay and I have talked to other Parents victimized by CPS that the CPS pull the trick of "dates, times" and "cancellations". CPS would put in for example: Visit at 4 PM, and the Children were not brought until 6 PM or not at all. Parents waited until they did not show up. CPS blames on the transportation, and the Driver...most of the time I have heard. CPS even cancelled at the last minute when Parents showed up. Even put the wrong day and such. CPS gives Parents the Run around so CPS hopes that Parents missed Visits would send "Red Flags" as they don't really care. CPS probably pulled the same trick on you, saying OH geez, Parents did not show up, that is too bad. Giving them the wrong day or whatever. Giving you reasons that these Parents don't care about these Children. WATCH CPS carefully! Watch at cancellations, times/dates...were they late? Because CPS gave them the wrong time! They supposed to show up at 4 PM as CPS told them to show up, but really called them saying it is really at 6 PM? or vice versa? tell them it is supposed to be at 6 PM but really supposed to be at 4 PM? Run arounds are famous for CPS Tactics, you should be there to see it. Sure enough you will be angered if you were made to stand on the Sidewalk waiting for your Children to show up for Visits. Only to find out that Children never came at all? CPS made sure of that. Showing the Courts "Parents did not make any efforts to do this Visitations, they were late...blah blah blah." I am sure you heard that statement many times before in Court Hearings.

[mrbeansmom]

YES! I agree with Dazzemay and I have talked to other Parents victimized by CPS that the CPS pull the trick of "dates, times" and "cancellations". CPS would put in for example: Visit at 4 PM, and the Children were not brought until 6 PM or not at all. Parents waited until they did not show up. CPS blames on the transportation, and the Driver...most of the time I have heard. CPS even cancelled at the last minute when Parents showed up. Even put the wrong day and such. CPS gives Parents the Run around so CPS hopes that Parents missed Visits would send "Red Flags" as they don't really care. CPS probably pulled the same trick on you, saying OH geez, Parents did not show up, that is too bad. Giving them the wrong day or whatever. Giving you reasons that these Parents don't care about these Children. WATCH CPS carefully! Watch at cancellations, times/dates...were they late? Because CPS gave them the wrong time! They supposed to show up at 4 PM as CPS told them to show up, but really called them saying it is really at 6 PM? or vice versa? tell them it is supposed to be at 6 PM but really supposed to be at 4 PM? Run arounds are famous for CPS Tactics, you should be there to see it. Sure enough you will be angered if you were made to stand on the Sidewalk waiting for your Children to show up for Visits. Only to find out that Children never came at all? CPS made sure of that. Showing the Courts "Parents did not make any efforts to do this Visitations, they were late...blah blah blah." I am sure you heard that statement many times before in Court Hearings.

Again, I feel as though I'm on another planet. That, or CPS here is pretty darn decent. We have established visit dates and times and they are the same each week. The parents often just plain don't show. Sometimes for weeks on end. No calls, no visits. Honestly, I have never heard of such abuse by CPS and I've been doing this for almost 16 years. I'm pretty involved too, as are most of my friends. I checked with them and they've not hard of this either. I can certainly appreciate your frustration and anger and I wish I knew how to help you, but things just don't happen here the way you've explained they do where you are.

[dasuberding]

Mrbeansmom wrote "You seem to b saying we (meaning all foster parents) should just walk out and thereby force the system to come up with a better plan."

That would be an excellent start. By that action alone, you would probably protect 700 children per day from being thrown into the CA CPS system. The goons would have to babysit their abductees. I AM ALL FOR IT!

Have you found any statistics yet? Just google child protective services + corruption or CA CPS+ corruption.

What county are you in in CA? I will find the federal study for that county for you, if they used that county for the inquiry. If not, there is an independent child advocacy group that did a study last year on all the CA counties. I really doubt that CPS in your county are any different in their behaviors than CPS in the county next to you. In fact, the bigger the population per county, the more abuse they dish out. Look up the pyschological (not webster's) definition of sociopathic behavior. We have had to deal with people that fit the sociopathic description.

Also, you keep saying that you highly doubt this and highly doubt that. You need to take what we are telling you as fact! Go to AFRA and join up for the AFRA Newshawk.

[Dazeemay]

They don't show because they have not been informed.

We were not even informed of our hearings. Had to call the clerk of court because they told us the hearing was off. It wasn't. My husband and I had to literally drop everything to get to our daughters hearing because she was thousands of miles away. Long story.

How do you and other fosters know that it doesn't occur in your state?

As we all know there are two sides to every story. Have you really been to the parents homes, talked with the relatives, talked to the parents?

You are only getting one side of the story.

[Frustrated]

I have seen and been on this Board for almost a Year. I read many Parents coming on here saying pretty much the same things....

1. We never got informed about our 72 hour Hearing.

2. We were not informed of a Visitation Schedule.

3. They gave us wrong day.

4. They gave us wrong time.

5. We were told we can't visit.

6. We didn't communicate, she won't return our Calls, she won't tell us when, she didn't email me back of the Schedule.

In fact, the CPS gave the Run around to these Parents, so much that makes their Heads spin. Misinformation from CPS are famous run around tactic. There was alot of miscommunication and Most CW won't talk to Parents whatsover. I am sure you will find across these Boards that CPS never talked to the Parents after the removal of Children, just about the Service Plan. That's it. and they Left and never came back, won't return your calls, won't up date you of what is going on with your Child...They only inform you if they ended up in a Hospital or been to a Doctor. That's it. CPS just kidnap children and up and Left, never having to talk to them, threatening them with Service Plans to complete or the Children will never be returned back. IN FACT, CPS never notified the Parents WHEN the Services will Begin! Putting off, showing the Judge that these Parents has not completed the Services!~

Look, What these CPS are doing are INTENTIONAL. Think about this, they have accomplished TPR's and Adoptions, how many children have actually went back? versus to "failure to complete Services" to TPR's? I am so sorry that you probably were blinded by all of what's happening behind closed doors. I wish you are there to see it first hand. You will know for real what these Parents are talking about. You don't believe it never happened in your Home, because you don't see it happening, because it takes place so much in their CPS Office. All run arounds and extortion happens behind closed doors and you would not believe of that happening, because you don't want to hear of it.

Did you read any of these Posts here? If anything at all? And you say that you could not believe it...BELIEVE IT!! I have seen first hand for Six Years just enough to know what they are up to. At First, I didn't know what's happeneing and then by the end of the Year I started to get the picture. I even caught their Lies right in CPS Office. They got scared and had to leave when they knew I was onto to them. They had to cut the Meeting short and make me leave the Office. And I never heard of them back since about 10 months later. And here they come back for some more.

[Frustrated]

There is one thing that just popped up in my head:

You mentioned in your Foster Handbook stating:

"All Foster Parents are not to interfere in ANY WAY of Renunification Plan."

Now...why do you suppose that is? Are the CPS afraid if you found out the truth but they are telling you not to interfere? So CPS can achieve their goals using these Children as Production Mill as means for Money Gain towards Adoptions, Foster Care? Fundings that places these Children anywhere from Foster Care, to Adoptions, they get extra fundings for an additional Child being placed there.

Another Question: Why are the Children not placed with Relatives? Why are they immediately placed in Foster Care first and they won't do a search for Grandparents, aunts, uncles and such? Don't tell me they are Drug Addicts, poor people that have high ability to abuse these Children. In fact, the AFSA Act requires that CPS must place the Child with a Grandparent and if they are not available or whatever, they can be placed with a Relative, being an Aunt, Uncles, Cousins, even Older Siblings.

Oh shoot, can't place with the Grandparent because she/he has a Criminal Background dating back 40 years! God forbid! For stealing candy? shop lifting? They are not even drug Addicts! and HAVE RAISED CHILDREN and they were never subjected to CPS before!

In fact, I think CPS System is Backward system and they are doing everything all wrong. They are not even interested in the best interests of the Children, they are just interested in Service Plan what you called "bare minimum" and don't forget Money. If you think that is not the case, why don't we offer that they get rid of money all together? Oh no? gotta keep the Agency going? In fact, I think everything should be FREE. Why should we be paying Services through Service Providers? Why are we paying Foster Care Fees? Why are we paying Counselling? EXACTLY, this is MONEY for them!~

CPS say that they will pay for it, but don't forget the State Funds pays for it and it goes back to them. That is called Diversification.

[mrbeansmom]

They don't show because they have not been informed.

I am in San Diego County. When a child is placed with us, BOTH the foster parent an the birth parent receive a case plan that spells out when and where visits take place. I have had parents that show and parents who don't. Of the ones who don't, they have told me themselves that they "forgot", or something else came up, or they had to attend some graduation or such with the program they are in. No one, not once, ever told me they were told the visit was cancelled.

[mrbeansmom]

Look, What these CPS are doing are INTENTIONAL. Think about this, they have accomplished TPR's and Adoptions, how many children have actually went back? versus to "failure to complete Services" to TPR's?

I can only speak for myself and most all of my foster children went back to their parents or to a relative nearby. The majority of my friend's foster children also went home to parents. In class, they will tell you that the majority of children go back home. I have been told time and time again that the single most important goal for any of these children is reunification, first and foremost.

Did you read any of these Posts here? If anything at all? And you say that you could not believe it...BELIEVE IT!! I have seen first hand for Six Years just enough to know what they are up to. At First, I didn't know what's happeneing and then by the end of the Year I started to get the picture. I even caught their Lies right in CPS Office. They got scared and had to leave when they knew I was onto to them. They had to cut the Meeting short and make me leave the Office. And I never heard of them back since about 10 months later. And here they come back for some more.

I have not read much of the posts here as I don't have a lot of time and have gotten somewhat cuaght up in this thread. All I can say is that, again from my experience, having been involved in foster care for years, I have not heard of or seen these things you all talk about. The parents have always had all of my information (CPS even leaked it when we had a highly confidential placement- very violent parents with violent histories). They called once and never again.

[mrbeansmom]

There is one thing that just popped up in my head:

You mentioned in your Foster Handbook stating:

"All Foster Parents are not to interfere in ANY WAY of Renunification Plan."

Now...why do you suppose that is?

I imagine because they are obligated to do everything possible to reunify families. It used to be when we fostered in Colorado that if the worker got even a hint that someone was contemplating keeping a foster child if TPR occurred that child was removed that afternoon, no ifs, ands or buts. Here in CA they have let us know that IF TPR takes place, and IF there is no relative placement available, you might be considered when adoption placement happens. They drill it into our heads, however, that THE only goal is reunification and if they think you are intereferring with a child being returned to their parent/s they will move that child.

Another Question: Why are the Children not placed with Relatives? Why are they immediately placed in Foster Care first and they won't do a search for Grandparents, aunts, uncles and such? Don't tell me they are Drug Addicts, poor people that have high ability to abuse these Children. In fact, the AFSA Act requires that CPS must place the Child with a Grandparent and if they are not available or whatever, they can be placed with a Relative, being an Aunt, Uncles, Cousins, even Older Siblings.

They do place with relatives all the time. I don't know what you're talking about. A lot of placements only last a few days to a week or so while they locate relatives. Again, I did not saypoor people are drug addicts and have high ability to abuse. I said ~I've been told/I understand that people who are struggling (poor) are often under a great deal of stress and can be more likely to abuse". I don't understan what about that makes you roll your eyes. Are you saying people who are struggling are not under stress? That people under stress are no more likely to abuse drugs/alcohol or their kids? I'm afraid the staistics prove you wrong. Common sense has to tell you that people under stress do not behave as sensibly as they would when not under stress. Just look how many people here alone have complained about the lack of support and services and how that sets them up to fail. Stress is big!

Oh shoot, can't place with the Grandparent because she/he has a Criminal Background dating back 40 years! God forbid! For stealing candy? shop lifting? They are not even drug Addicts! and HAVE RAISED CHILDREN and they were never subjected to CPS before!

As I said, placing with relatives is common here.

In fact, I think CPS System is Backward system and they are doing everything all wrong. They are not even interested in the best interests of the Children, they are just interested in Service Plan what you called "bare minimum" and don't forget Money. If you think that is not the case, why don't we offer that they get rid of money all together? Oh no? gotta keep the Agency going? In fact, I think everything should be FREE. Why should we be paying Services through Service Providers? Why are we paying Foster Care Fees? Why are we paying Counselling? EXACTLY, this is MONEY for them!~

No, it's because we live in a democracy and not a socialist nation. If there were no reimbursement for foster care, few would be able to afford to do it. And then what? You can't possibly think that no foster care is ever necessary.........

CPS say that they will pay for it, but don't forget the State Funds pays for it and it goes back to them. That is called Diversification.

You lost me.........CPS says they will pay for what? And what fund goes back to them?

[lostintranslation]

CPS will tell you that they will pay for all the services they want you to do. Yet when the time comes to go to the services, CPS hasn't done diddly squat to pay for the services and the parent is often left with being denied the services ordered or forced to pay it themselves.

It sounds like you have either been misinformed or something, mrbeansmom. I would really hate to think that you are wearing rose colored glasses through this whole mess. You know that old saying love is blind? Could the love you have (and I don't doubt for a minute that you don't love the children you care for) for the children be blinding you to some of the things we are telling you about this whole CPS charade?

Also with the visitations. Oh boy, where to start here. When our children were first removed, I considered us pretty lucky that we got to see them a week later at the CPS office. The next visit also went as planned. However, the third visit was a fiasco. We showed up at the planned time and date at the office. We waited. And waited. And waited some more. Our visit was scheduled for 4 pm. We waited until 530 when finally our CW came out and said that the investigator was responsible for the visit yet the investigator had told us the exact opposite earlier in the day. She had told us that our case had been handed over to the CW and he would be responsible for the visitation that night. Needless to say, the visit never happened. We were both on the phone the next day to our attorneys. The missed visit, caused by miscommunication, was ordered by the judge not to only be made up but an extra visit that week was also to be scheduled. The foster parents were told that WE FAILED TO SHOW UP. They told me about it further down in the case when we got unsupervised visits and we were picking the kids up. I also saw it in their notes that we got (they forgot to remove them out of the kids' files) when the boys came home. I think everyone here would have a minor stroke if I published the notes and the stuff that the foster parents were being told about us that was not true.

Honestly, you do sound like you are one of the better foster parents but you have to realize that yes, you are part of a very corrupt system and that is why you may not have the most warmest of welcomes here. I am sorry about this but it's the hard truth. The truth that is being forced on millions of families everyday. When you said you weren't a party in the corrupt system, I feel that is not correct. You provide a service for CPS. Without a provider, CPS would be forced to either seek alternative placement with relatives in and out of state or to keep the kids home and provide services to the family. What good are these parenting classes and other services if we don't have our kids home with us to implement the practices on?? Maybe an organized protest amongst foster parents about the injustices in the corrupt system might help get some of the reform. I don't know, I just don't know. But it may be a good start.

Again, no one here has said that there isn't a need for a foster system or CPS. However, everyone here recognizes that reform is needed. We also see that a watchdog agency needs to be put in place and make CPS accountable for every action they take. Their immunity should be stripped and made to answer for each and every mistake they make. Also we all feel anonymous reporting should be done away with. That way, the reporters' names are recorded and if found to be an act of maliciousness, it will be very easy for the parents to see to it that the person is prosecuted.

A question for you, mrbeansmom. If you have CWs in your house at all times, do they tell you that your house is too cluttered or do they criticize you if you have unfolded laundry or dirty dishes in the sink? Do they tell you that your house is messy because of toys on the floor? Do they say you don't have enough of this or that to support the kids in your care? I want to know the absolute and clear view standards they hold YOU to.

[Greegor]

Mrbeansmom:
I question whether anything anybody says
would change your mind.

You mentioned the days when foster
contracts said that you were NOT to
be eyeing the kids for adoption.

That means you fostered for what?
20 years?

How could we possibly compete with
that many years of indoctrination?

Isn't this exercise a bit like trying to
change the religion of an older person?

[lostintranslation]

Greegor,

I would hope by now, you know that I do admire you and I find your posts very informative.

I think that whether or not we can 'change' mrbeansmom, is beyond the full scope of the discussion here. We are getting another point of view and both sides of the coin are offering thought provoking statements and information. She may not be able to see our points of view and we may not be able to see hers but maybe someone in the future will find this thread informative. I have never seen anything on this thread, or this site for that matter, that is said to change someone's mind or point of view. All I see is information being shared. What we choose to do with that information is up to each individual. If the information provided helps mrbeansmom see what we go through and the broader scope of the system, great. If it doesn't and she continues with her own opinion that everything is rosy, someone in the future may find the stuff said here informative enough to change their views and use the information provided to cause change. If, with the information provided, mrbeansmom uses this information presented decides that her voice will be heard for reformation, great. I would be impressed and very proud of her. If she choses not to help with the reformation, then all I can say is she, while admitting that the system needs change, is a silent antagonist which allows the system to continue with its corrupt ways. She has a voice and information. It's her choice to use it or not. I will never fault anyone who choses to stay silent. It takes alot of bravery and stamina to step up against a government agency and fight back. I think we all know that with all our individual battles. It's even harder to be part of that agency to stand up and protest. I give all the credit in the world for those in the system that do stand up to the agency in question but I can also understand why others don't.

[good dad]

Isn't this exercise a bit like trying to
change the religion of an older person?

OR, It's like a bunch of strangers trying to tell someone that everything they have done in their life was wrong, cramming it down their throat...I wouldn't change my view either in this position, you just become defensive.....

[lostintranslation]

GoodDad...

I think most of the people involved in this very long and INFORMATIVE thread has, for the most part, remained civil and not at all very defensive. I hope that defensive remark wasn't made at all participants in the thread. I am sending you a PM about something though.

[Frustrated]

I think your Fostering is low profile where it is an Open communication between parents and Foster parents. CPS has marked you as low profile which allows open communication. Other Foster Parents probably have high profiles where contacts are not allowed whatsover.

The more you stay and keep in contact with CW's, the more they pull wool over your eyes. 16 years is a long time to be lied to. CW tells you that Parents don't show up, but the Parents were being lied to as well and including yourself. CW likes to keep up the charade so their goals can be carried out. I think it is time to open your eyes to see what's happening in front of you. Being Blind and doing the work caring for these Children and not paying attention to warning signs. I would pay more attention to what CW tells you closely. Watch to what CW really tell you. The CPS are up to no good. I have seen the other side. You feel like you are on another planet, because that is exactly what it is, CPS DO NOT TELL YOU THINGS, keeping you in the Dark.

Maybe some day you will totally see the other side of the story to what CPS are capable of and the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Pay more attention to warning signs and listen more closely to what they really tell you then you can put the pieces of the puzzles together. I would call the Parents myself to find out if that is true if in fact they didn't show up. Didn't you try that?

The Truth will always will be made known and the Lies will be showing up clear as Light. It always does.

My Friend who is a Foster Parent in Missouri, and she already knew the truth about CPS. She just wished that CPS can be reformed to better System. She knows it is corrupt, but her hands are tied, and she has to care for these Children. She also adopted 13 yrs old Daughter. She is hoping and praying that some day that CPS will be held accountable. She was also being lied to and things like that. There isn't anything she can do except caring for these Foster Children that she loves doing.

Stress? Everyone has stress including yourself. No body is perfect.

[dasuberding]

"I have been told time and time again that the single most important goal for any of these children is reunification, first and foremost."

This is just lip service, pillow talk for the unsuspecting public. It even states this in the CA CPS policy manual (which you can dowload from the official CA website, Federal inquiry results, as well) but I can tell you from fact, that CPS in CA does not follow state or federal policies. They make up or ignore policy as they see fit. My county's CPS website used to have the motto "Keeping Families Together" as their header but has since reoved it from the webpage. Why is that? The longer they keep the children from the parents, the more funding they can get from the state and feds. It doesn't even benefit them to pursue a TPR because eventually they will lose funding.

"No, it's because we live in a democracy and not a socialist nation. "

DON'T KID YOURSELF! You live in a socialist state and don't even know it. You and I never had the chance to vote on this decision. It was decided for us by the liberal loons of the CA State Legislation and the traitor, then Governor, Davis. Under his watch, social services was doubled and he took huge monetary surplus and drove CA into debt that might take ten years to recover from. Davis was lucky that he wasn't tarred and feathered.

[Frustrated]

Up here it is the same thing:

CPS Mission Statement:

"We believe in Family being together and lessen interference in Family Life."

Now they don't talk about it anymore.

I guess I know why.

Many Parents complained about that fact that their statement is not true as fact so they don't discuss it anymore and it used to be on a Pamphlet, but no more pamphlet. They are making up new Statement to justify their cause.

I don't want to hear their new B.S. Statement, because it is the same thing, taking Children as means for monetary reasons as a Goal. Fundings are what keeps the Organization going and they always shove Services down your Throat.

I have Service Plans twice, and they wanted to shove some more down my throat. I have enough of their B.S. I am going to make everyone see who CPS really are. I am going to do something about it. I am going to be a Family Rights Activist or something. NO ONE believes that CPS would do that to Families BUT THEY DO!! Wake up and smell the coffee for once, see for what they really are! Pay attention! Watch CPS at every move. You can look closely, it is like when they put their hands in your pockets and steal your wallet without looking, but you will actually catch them red handed if you catch their hands in your pocket! That is what you should be doing.

[dasuberding]

Got this off of cpswatch@yahoogroups. Had to delete some names:


In a message dated 6/27/2006 1:27:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, writes:

What caused this big debate about foster care, do you know? It's so unusual that any media
would give this topic the attention it deserves. Good for them! And did you take part in the
discussion? I missed it, but hope some of 'our side' was there to tell the facts about foster care.

blessings,

response: since the advent of the Internet and parents actively comparing notes about CPS' misguided policies, the powers that be have had to justify their expenditures.

Remember, that the Federal Code authorizing Foster Care specified ( at one time) that the monies the Feds kicked in were only to be used for FC.

Wexler, I think, makes note of the fact that Michigan recently became the (20th?) state to obtain a waiver from the Feds to spend this allocated grant to *reasonable efforts services* rather than FC.

Remember, there is SUPPOSEDLY A SHORTAGE OF FOSTERS THROUGHOUT THE US.

Reasonable efforts are supposed to be implemented b4 your child is taken to FC.

Just as special ed kids are supposed to be placed in the *least restrictive environment*, doesn't it seem reasonable that Foster Kids are entitled to the same treatment.

In your case, that was my argument for your daughter in not being placed in an institution.

With all the Schools of SW, and such, it might prove helpful for those secure enough to address the SW classes personally about their experiences.

I know you have already gone public, and have done a great job in awakening interest in the blatant abuses which HAPPEN TO CHILDREN WITHIN CPS ITSELF.

To summarize:

1. FC may be dead or dying. At least if folks understand their rights. And if children ( especially those over the age of 11 are invited into Family Court to express their wishes.)

2. The groundswell of cries are taking effect.

3. Attorneys can assert sex abuse w/i FC. This may be an area which is ripe for young teens to explore.

4. Liability issues.

5. CPS has had such negative press, and such egregious mistakes, falsifications, lies, and the like that their credibility is being questioned within some Courts in NJ.

6. Parents are not as willing to accept CPS' prouncements as Gospel. Parents will increasingly not talk to CPS.

7. I hope all can click on the site and show your interest in the topic. http://www.justicetalking.org.


__._,_.___

[Dazeemay]

http://www.justicetalking.org/

[Greegor]

From the VERY FIRST POST in this thread:

mrbeansmom
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 34
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:59 pm
Post subject: But what about the kids????????

> I am new to this forum and I am a foster parent.
> I see a lot about parent's rights and being wrongly
> accused. I see a lot about reunification and threats
> of TPR. I believe there are a lot of crooked things
> going on with CPS, but from my perspective,
> as a foster parent, my ~only~ focus has to be
> the best interest of the child. If I get caught up
> in all the legal issues and the problems of the
> birth parent I cannot be effective in caring for
> the child entrusted to me. <snip>

If you are so worried about getting "caught up
in all the legal issues and the problems of the
birth parent" then what are you here for?

Is it a legal issue to point out that
"best interests of the child" is a legal issue?

Did you know that until parents are
proven to be unfit, PARENTS are the
only ones legally allowed to determine
what is in the child's best interests?

CPS agencies almost NEVER find parents
to be UNFIT, until TPR.

The "tipoff" was referring to "birth parents".

Most fosters don't refer to us that way.

What's the real story, "mrbeansmom"?

[mrbeansmom]

From the VERY FIRST POST in this thread:

mrbeansmom
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 34
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:59 pm
Post subject: But what about the kids????????

> I am new to this forum and I am a foster parent.
> I see a lot about parent's rights and being wrongly
> accused. I see a lot about reunification and threats
> of TPR. I believe there are a lot of crooked things
> going on with CPS, but from my perspective,
> as a foster parent, my ~only~ focus has to be
> the best interest of the child. If I get caught up
> in all the legal issues and the problems of the
> birth parent I cannot be effective in caring for
> the child entrusted to me. <snip>

If you are so worried about getting "caught up
in all the legal issues and the problems of the
birth parent" then what are you here for?

Is it a legal issue to point out that
"best interests of the child" is a legal issue?

Did you know that until parents are
proven to be unfit, PARENTS are the
only ones legally allowed to determine
what is in the child's best interests?

CPS agencies almost NEVER find parents
to be UNFIT, until TPR.

The "tipoff" was referring to "birth parents".

Most fosters don't refer to us that way.

What's the real story, "mrbeansmom"?

Oh, so now I'm part of the conspiracy too?! I'm really sorry to disappoint you, but there is no "real story". I have been up fron and honest with all of you right from the start. There's nothing sinister in my use of the term "birth parents". It is commonly used among foster parents (contrary to what you've stated) to differentiate birth from foster or adopted. Are you offended by the term "birth parent"?

I, alone, am not Wonderwoman. Look at it this way, IF your child is taken from you for whatever reason, right or wrong, would you want to know they are being loved and cared for properly and that they are being fed and clothed and that you are not being bad-mouthed? Stop making me out to be the enemy. If I have to focus on the parent and their plight I cannot give my undivided attention to the child who needs care. I realize that ultimately you would just want custody of your child, but given the circumstances, which would you rather have the foster parent focused on you and your needs, or your child and their needs? All parents are not like you. Believe it or not, there are bad parents out there, just as there are bad foster parents and bad adoptive parents. We are talking individuals.

And I beg to differ concerning the best interest of the child. If until a parent is found to be unfit the parent is the only one legally able to determine the best interest of the child, what are all of your children doing in foster care? The judge determines best interest of the child from the day they put their stamp of approval on having them removed until the day they send them back or send them elsewhere. The parent ~only~ determines best interest of the child when they child is in their custody and there is no CPS involvement.

[Greegor]

<snip>
> If until a parent is found to be unfit the
> parent is the only one legally able to
> determine the best interest of the child,
> what are all of your children doing in foster care?

You're making my point FOR ME! Thanks!

> The judge determines best interest of the
> child from the day they put their stamp of
> approval on having them removed until
> the day they send them back or send
> them elsewhere.

That is how it is presented.
Reality however, is something else.

Did you see the quote from a manual
for Juvenile Court Judges, the part
where even the JUDGE is directed
to consider the impact of their decisions
on FUNDING for the agency and their
own section of the court?

Are you SURE you don't want to see
the LEGAL arguments?


> The parent ~only~ determines
> best interest of the child when [the]
> child is in their custody and there
> is no CPS involvement.

Even before a court removal order?
In my own family's case, the child was
removed 21 days before ANY court
removal order. The idiots actually tried
to entrap me for VIOLATING a no-contact
order, but the JOKE was on them, they
had NO SUCH ORDER, had NO court order
of ANY kind!

Oh, sorry, that was LEGAL.
Then again, since they DIDN'T have
any court orders, does the above fiasco
qualify as a ""legal matter""?

Given what complete a@@@ the caseworkers
made of themselves could you IMAGINE
why this motivated them to commit
PERJURY to finally obtain a court removal order?

Your drive to provide good foster care
should in no way come from parents anyway.
It's a contractual obligation, and the LAW.

But you didn't answer the most BASIC question.

What is it you think a Parents Rights group
can do for you considering the first part
of your first post?

You argued with at least four other posters.
You attempt to negate everything.

Caselaw won't convince you, apparently.

Personal stories won't convince you either.

Are you here to defend the system?

[Momof31995]

Okay i have just spent a good portion of my day on this thread and i must say i can understand both sides of this as im a parent that had my children stolen by cps and also because i have become very good friends with our childrens last and final foster parents as they are being returned to us now.

but my children were also in some awful places one of the foster parents took toys we bought our kids and gave them to their own children and we bought brand new clothes and coats and such for our kids and never saw them wear them and found out later the foster mother was returning them to the store for cash or credit.

we never complained about buying things for the kids because well if they were home we would have to buy them anyway but my problem was the foster parents were getting money to buy the kids clothes and such and yet we had to buy them also?

it really irritated me when my kids shoes or clothes were too small and the only reason the foster mother could come up with was kids just grow too fast?

if i was to use that excuse it would have been called neglect!!

i will not attack anyone on these boards as that is not the purpose

but i got to say anyone who says that my children arent my own is seriously dilusional! i carried loved and nurtured my children and for CPS to come along and try to break that bond and tell my children the foster parents were going to adopt them really set me off.Thank god they were unsuccessful and my children are still close to us even after 2 years of seeing them only 1 time per week for 1 hour in a stuffy little room at cps (the past 6 months we were suddenly granted unsupervised visits in our home).

There were so many times i thought after visits that it could be my last scared that they were going to TPR us and we had no way of fighting(we were not as smart then as we are now) but just knowing our rights and letting cps know we know our rights made all the difference we now have our son home with us and our daughters will be home in a couple weeks(we have them most of the week now anyway)

what i have to say to the original poster is you should seriously research the cases of the many people on this board falsely accused and realize these are the cases that are keeping CPS running because they are the ones they force services on.
always remember just because CPS says its so doesnt always mean its true.

thank you for being a good fosterer to children who need it but also pray for the parents to see the light. As i noticed you take children seriously in need of care. And just because a parent gets a bit lost sometimes off the beaten path it doesnt make them bad people it makes them lost and they need someone to help them back onto the path.

oh and btw i am poor and living only off my husbands income yet i dont drink or abuse drugs and am an anti-psychotropic drug person yet have been forced to keep my children on adderall or risk losing them again for "medical neglect".

i read somewhere on here saying CPS does some good is like saying hitler made the trains run ontime. Trust me truer words have never been uttered!