But what about the kids????????

[good dad]

well said Mom

[mrbeansmom]

<snip>
> If until a parent is found to be unfit the
> parent is the only one legally able to
> determine the best interest of the child,
> what are all of your children doing in foster care?

You're making my point FOR ME! Thanks!

You're welcome.....I guess. How did I make your point?

Did you see the quote from a manual
for Juvenile Court Judges, the part
where even the JUDGE is directed
to consider the impact of their decisions
on FUNDING for the agency and their
own section of the court?

No, I've never heard of or seen such a thing. Can you give me a link?

Are you SURE you don't want to see
the LEGAL arguments?

I'm not sure what you mean. What legal arguments?

> The parent ~only~ determines
> best interest of the child when [the]
> child is in their custody and there
> is no CPS involvement.

Even before a court removal order?
In my own family's case, the child was
removed 21 days before ANY court
removal order.

Agaian, I'm not sure what you mean. Under what auspices did they remove your child? I mean, they don't randomly pick addresses out of a hat and take the kids who live there. There must have been a reason they chose your house. If they removed the child, then that means that at that point there was CPS involvement, even without an order, no? They may not have acted in the right, but once they involved themselves, there became CPS involvement. My only point was that where there is no CPS involvement, right or wrong, those are the only parents who truly get to determine the best interest of their child.

Oh, sorry, that was LEGAL.
Then again, since they DIDN'T have
any court orders, does the above fiasco
qualify as a ""legal matter""?

I know that you are angry, and it sounds as though you have a perfect right to be, but you really don't need to take it out on me. I have tried to be civil and learn from all of you in spite of the little (and big) digs taken at my expense. Truthfully, I don't understand what you even meant by this above comment.

Given what complete a@@@ the caseworkers
made of themselves could you IMAGINE
why this motivated them to commit
PERJURY to finally obtain a court removal order?

Of course I can see that. The caseworkers I worked with on our last case also commited perjury and, in difference to your case, their perjury may have cost this little child their life in time. You can bet I'll be waiting in the wings, ready to nail them for all I can on behalf of his sibling for doing it too. It goes both ways you know.

Your drive to provide good foster care
should in no way come from parents anyway.
It's a contractual obligation, and the LAW.

Again, I am really trying to understand you, but I just don't get what you're saying here. I imagine his is in response to my saying that my focus is on the children and not he parent's plight, but I don't see how your comment fits.

But you didn't answer the most BASIC question.

What is it you think a Parents Rights group
can do for you considering the first part
of your first post?

You argued with at least four other posters.
You attempt to negate everything.

Caselaw won't convince you, apparently.

Personal stories won't convince you either.

Are you here to defend the system?

I am not here to defend the system. For different reasons entirely, the system has destroyed my husband's, my, and our children's lives forever. The kids move on as best they can, but my husband and I will never be the same. They lied to us, they separated these siblings, they broke the heart of the sibling who thought they belonged here and confused the heck out of the child, probably setting her/him up for big time attachment issues, and worst of all, they put the child at risk. I hate them with every fiber of my being.

THAT is my personal story and it's just as valid as any of yours. We argued our case, we also had caselaw, but in the end, none of it mattered because children are chattel and parent's rights come before children's at all costs. THAT'S been our experience. I'm sorry it's not been yours because perhaps you'd all have your children back by now, but it has been ours. You don't know us, nor do you know our children, the child we're grieving the loss of (we consider it a legal kidnapping), nor the situation CPS placed this child back into. We love this child more than there are stars in the heavens and the only way I get through each day is to keep remembering to breathe. A huge part of me died the day s/he left and my dreams are haunted each and every night (and day) with this child and what s/he might be going through. Nobody thought about this child except us. It was always all about the parent, whether the parent sincerely wanted the child or not.

I didn't read all the posts when I got here. I thought it was about CPS acting imorally on behalf of all children, not just the children of parents wrongly accused. You all have caused me to look at things a bit differently, but I'm still very confused. Yesterday I saw a car at a burger place that was parked in the sun with the driver's window open. In the back seat was a girl about 3-4 in a car seat, sleeping. It was close to 100 degrees outside and a parent was nowhre in sight. We watched the car and wondered what to do. Soon, the mother came out carrying a cup, a napkin, and talking to someone who wasn't there. She stood just feet from the car carrying on her conversation with her imaginary friend. She left again, went back in the burger place and came out about 5 minutes later, again, talking heatedly to someone who clearly wasn't there. We watched the car the whole time and checked to be sure the little girl was okay. I wanted to call the police. I thought about all of you and wondered what each one of you would have done.

I can see that I am not welcome here and I won't cause you anymore distress.........

[lostintranslation]

The episode you witnessed yesterday is a clear cut example of when the police should be called. Aren't you a mandated reporter, anyway? IF not, I do apologize as foster parents where I am are mandated reporters. Anyway, I would have called the police immediately under those conditions. If the person caring for that child was not in her right mind and leaving a child in a hot car like that, you bet I would have called. You can bet the farm I would.

I really hope you don't leave the site, mrbeansmom. I have like the experience to talk to a foster parent and I have learned a few things. I am glad that you have read further into the site and see the battle we are all fighting here; you included. Stick around, please. If people feel uncomfortable with you posting, they don't have to read your posts. Same goes if you aren't comfortable with someone. I really hope you decide to stick around. If not, I hope the things you have learned here help you in the future.

[good dad]

I hope you don't leave either...

Some people here just need to realize not everyone from "CPS's" side is against them.. They may have been in their case, but not in every case..

There are GOOD fosterparents,CASA's and even a few CPS workers. But there are not enough of them that we can afford to scare them away when they come here. As long as we can learn points from their side to help parents fight, they are a benefit to us.

You will change more minds and accomplish more with a smile and a pleasant attitude then anger and personal attacks..

Being pleasant these people will begin looking for the things we speak of in cases they see. When they tell others in their field, they will look for these things in their cases too..

You argued with at least four other posters.

Greegor... Do I have to go back and count how many you have argued with?

Linda asked that this board remain peaceful with each other, please keep this in mind when you post..

[lostintranslation]

GoodDad,

One word about your post:

BRAVO

[donita]

mrbeansmom, It took your last post for me to be able to hear you. Your statement about having to remember to breath made me realize that your grief is as real as mine was.

It is amazing to me that you can love someone elses child that much. I have to admit I wished someone would have loved my child that much when she was in foster care. Then none of the things that happened to her would have happened.

I think maybe in regards to OUR personal conflict, when I generalized you into my own experience that you generalized me back... Thats fair.

With all sincerity, I hope the child you are grieving for can somehow be reunited with thier sibling. I'm convinced that if that is with you then they could not be loved anymore than if they were your own children.

I would also like to say that because of you, I do understand your side better. I also hope you will feel welcome if you decide to come back here.

[donita]

To the members of fightcps I would like to go on the record as saying that even though the tapestry that was woven by this tread was profitable and probably necessary and personally helped me face some of my bitterness.

To invite victims from the other side of cps into a forum of parents who are desperatly fighting to get thier kids back was a bit harsh on everyone involved, and I question whether it will make us stronger or weaker.

Wiser is stronger and I suggest in our fight for reform we remember that there are victims on the other side. However, the bottom line is, those are our kids and every study I've heard of says kids develope better when they are raised by thier own parents.

[tiredofthis]

[/quote]
I started this thread to advocate for siblings. It's kind of taken on a different life of it's own though. I've mostly just taken a lot of heat regarding the foster care system. While you complain and toss allegations out you have yet to provide any sound solutions. I am honestly interested in what you think needs to be changed and how. So, what do we do when a baby is born addicted? When a child is brought into a hospital with severe inflicted injuries? When children are found living in cars, surrounded by rotting food and filthy clothing? I'm very curious as to what your response is. You say you want to destory the system. I'll admit it has big problems, but unless you have any legitimate answers, simply posting here and complaining is nothing more than spitting in the wind.

And while I didn't give birth to the foster child I have now, if we were to all die tomorrow, I would be the only parent s/he's ever known. I am the only parent the children I've adopted have ever had and, yes, I AM their parent. The act of simply giving birth does not earn one the title of parent...................[/quote]


Well said, and may God himself praise you even if CPS and many of these people won't. I thank you for your love and concern for "our". I say "our children" because I believe all children are the responsibility of everyone. If a child is hurting and i can ease their pain then I'll do it, if a child needs a home and his or her biofam can't do it and you are willing then thank you for stepping up. Yes, CPS is a thankless organization, and yes, many of the pp decided to vent/ turn their rage toward you unjustly, and for that i am sorry. How dare we condemn you for caring, and say we were tried/convicted/accused/ whatever unjustly. In my mind it is these horrible attitudes that probably led to their children being taken from them. many of them were undoubtably falsly accused and that is appaling. i am here because a good friend of mine has lost her daughter again to cps, and I think she will use/abuse the system and get her back, yet another time. She is a drug user and is facing criminal charges finally. CPS kissed her butt and gave her A back on multiple occasions. This little 12 year old has the cognitive age of 5 is that right to toss her in and out of care like a ragdoll? Is it all the moms fault no, cps didn't prepare her, they gave her daughter back after she had a few signatures and clean UA's, afew classes, etc. WTH! CP(dumbas)S didn't protect her child they rushed to RU, and this little girls former ff wanted to adopt her, why? because they fell in love with her. Did they plan on wanting to adopt her? HECK NO! But after sharing their lives and home with her they grew to love her very much. I can appreciate that and atleast they placed her in a home with people capeable of loving her. All these posters who are attacking you should stop attacking you for "being part of the system"mmmm. and thank you for providing a home for a child that needed it. I've seen it over and over again CPS IMO and area would offer to find housing, help w/ employment, clothing, furniture utilities, transportation, arranging classes, etc. CPS, yes, they function much like a dt\ysfunctional family themselves (sometimes they have good workers, although rare in my experiences) and these rare people deserve to have that acknowledged, and yes there are foster parents who give all they have to "their kids" and whether we like it or not they (fp) are their family as long as they have them, and no that doesn't make them better than the rest of us, but comeon, even when we use a babysitter over a long period of time they can for a bond with "our" childrem. And as far as stealing kids and that she shouldn't provide a home cause then they will stop stealing our kids.... OMG give me a break then "OUR?YOUR" kids would end up in shelters and group homes...oh, that sounds like a better alternative to me.... Here in AZ many kiddos end up in shelters because there aren't ennough homes and IF you love your kids like I love mine to should kiss this good, no great foster moms butt so she won't tuck tail, turn and run and close her wonderful home, duh! As a parent if my kid can't be with me may GOD put my child ina hopme that will want to keep him if I can't so that he will grow up at least in a loving enviornment. . I would hope my child would be placed with somone who could grow to love them, and if that family didn't bond with my child I would think they were unhuman. Yes, foster parents need to change some of their views of birth families, but where do you think they learn to develop these fears/feelings.....CPS, no it is from posters like you that unfairly condemn them as evil child stealers that are poart of a consiracy to detroy your family. Actually CPS tends to think of them as a babysitter, which is wrong, and yes, they should have some info about "our" kids, well, they do need to provide for them and any medical info that may be pertanent should be given to them. And if we want our kids back we should go out of our way to thank and welcome this person into our lives. If we are wrongly accused then we shoudl prove it with class and not by name calling, or if we make mistakes we should own up to them and not chastise (SP?! this pooster for her thoughts and concerns. Blame the system not the individuals involved as with all things some people are in it for the wrong reasons, but when someone (a foster parent ) comes to you with an open mind and heart, embrace themm don't attack them and reinforce their fears......doesn't that do the opposite of what you/we all wanted? Don't you want foster families to work with you/ us and allow you.us access to your/our children via the phone, letters, etc. If we jump all over them in cyberspace THEN WHY THE HECK ARE THEY GOING TO ALLOW US TO VISIT< CALL<OR WHATEVER> We reinforce their negative opinins, and create real negative experiences with them. Yes, if a parent is wrongly accused that is a crime, but don't hate the person there to dry "YOUR" childs tears in your absence thank the "good ones" so the "bad ones" aren't the only ones left in the system!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i CAN'T BELEIVE SOME OF THE COMMENTS ON THIS THREAD... GROW UP AND FACE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS AND IF YOU ARE INNOCENT ACT LIKE IT AND WORK WITH THE FOSTER PARENTS NOT AGAINST THEM...... THEY MAY END UP BEING YOUR BEST ALI IF YOU LET THEM. I deserve my kids, as many of you do aswell, but when someone hurts children like she described she has every right to keep them, and yes they are hers, their former families threw them away. GOD BLESS YOU ALL, but be nice to this women and stop slamming her. AND ALL SHE SAID SHE WANTED WAS TO KEEP THEM TOGETHER< THE MOM DIDN"T WANT THE OLDER ONE AND THAT IS A SHAME AND YES< SINCE MOM DIDN"T WANT THE ONE SHE SHOULD"VE LOST THEM BOTH IMO> God bless all of you and us involved in this crazy system. BUT GIVE THIS WOMEN A REST and attack me for my views if you must.

[lostintranslation]

I think most people on this thread did try to be objective (I know I certainly did and tried not to attack anyone).

We don't want to destroy the system. We want reformation. Big difference. We aren't calling for total anarchy in CPS; just changes. The only way those changes even have a chance to come about is with the aid of forums like this one, we have discussions with all sides being heard. We may not all agree on what is said; that is human nature. However, civil disagreements just open the doors for discussion.

I enjoyed this thread when it was going strong; I really did. The struggles of a GOOD foster parent is probably a bit comparable to the struggles us birth parents have. Not the same but still a horrible struggle.

Kids living in dangerous conditions need to be removed. No one is denying that there is a need for the foster system nor is anyone saying that CPS shouldn't exist. Matter of fact, there was a very short thread here not too long ago where a person was wondering if the child should be returned to the birth parents. Even though there were just a few responses, they were all a resounding NO. People with substance abuse problems need to concentrate on getting off the substance(s) and sometimes, removal of the children is the only way that the recovery can be focused on. Learning to take care of oneself so they can properly care for their children is the first step.

[donita]

I agree that there is a need for foster care in society as well; however, foster parents should be held to the same standard or above as biological parents. Thier abuses should not be allowed to be swept under the rug in order to protect cps, which I have personally experienced more than once.

I strongly believe that if the state is going to take children from thier homes, then those children deserve to recieve above average care, education, and opportunities. That is where our tax money should be going. How dare cw's take children from thier homes and place them in homes where they haven't even met the foster parents. How dare cps provide a system where one branch of the system pulls a name out of the hat and sends another branch of the system to deliver our children and niether one of those branches have anything to do with interviewing potential foster parents at all. How dare cps provide a system where the rights of foster parents are placed above the rights of the children and the biological parents rights. Foster children should have a right to dress well and eat well. Foster children should have the right to go to the BEST schools and join the BEST clubs. Foster children should have the right to be placed in a foster home that encourages the healing to thier biological family without imposing futher problems to their reunifications, such as sexual orientations and religious beliefs. The state can't impose those things on our children in the schools, they certainly should not be imposed on them in a foster home without the biological parents consent. If a foster home cannot provide these opportunities to a child then they should be denied.

[lostintranslation]

[quote="donita"]I agree that there is a need for foster care in society as well; however, foster parents should be held to the same standard or above as biological parents. Thier abuses should not be allowed to be swept under the rug in order to protect cps, which I have personally experienced more than once.


Donita,
Having had my kids abused and neglected while in care and not only my concerns fell on deaf ears but also the concerns of other social workers and another set of foster parents. I totally agree also that the FPs need to be held not only on equal grounds of responsibility as the BPs but on a higher level of what they need to do for the kids.