this website was the best thing for me
i did not know my rights or how to fight to get my child back
if it was not for this site my daughter would not be home after only 7 months in custody
this site gave me all the info i needed to help with my battle against cps and all the lies they have said and done
so if you dont like the site dont read it or post on it
the parents that come here really do love their children and are doing everything they can to be a better parent for their children
i think you expertise can be useful if you would open your mind to understand the cps lies
cps is suppose to help families reunite but what i have learned through my battle is that they fight this at every turn
instead of getting help for my family, and learning how to change things, i learned that it is a fight they are not here to help only to make things harder
i would really like to know why
why not help us to be better instead of trying to take you child away without giving you a chance to do better
not every child is removed for the right reason, not every child needs to be placed in foster care
sometimes all that is needed is counseling
but the counselors work for cps so instead of helping the family work out their problems, the counselors are only there to gain more info to use against the family
How does that help
"Devil's" Advocate- The other side of CPS
Moderators: family_man, LindaJM
I doubt if the parents on this forum can help you with your needs
It will BE the parents like the ones on these forums who are the MOST crucial part of CPS being put in their place. THEIR stories, THEIR heartache, THEIR injustice. The parents here, and the many more like them, are the most vital part of the "fight" against CPS for their wrong doings.
A question..have any of the parents on here that were falsely accused and had their children removed ever tried to get on television? Local news or nationwide talk shows?
All I got was, as long as the case is open, they want nothing to do with it. If the case is overturned by Appeal, they (media) become interested or If you can get an investigation opened into the local county CPS, they are interested..
I've seen a few CPS cases on Montel and he has vowed to continue airing shows against CPS..But they seem few and far between...
Oprah....
'Nuff said*********************
My advice is my opinion and not legal advice
*********************
A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....
My advice is my opinion and not legal advice
*********************
A bad lawyer is worse then no lawyer and bad advice is worse then no advice....
Response to Marina
Marina-
I am sorry you have been so offended by my posts, as I have said repeatedly, I was never looking to offend anyone. No, I am not on this site for information on getting my children back, I am here because, as someone about to enter a field dealing with children involved in CPS, I would like to know as much as I possibly can. It’s clear that your experiences with the system have been very negative, and I am sorry. You talk of all the parents who were hurt by CPS wrongfully taking their children, I could tell you horror stories of children NOT taken by CPS who should have been. I have seen everything from initials carved into a 4-year-olds arm, to hearing the explicit details of a 13-year-old describing the rape by her father. Just as the parents and children who are traumatized by being taken away deserve a better system, so do the kids left in the hands of monsters. I am not here to argue which side is worse, I am simply here to point out that there is another side, a side that deserves equal attention in CPS reform. This site, as it is my understanding, is not only to help wronged parents, but also to gain awareness and promote change and advocacy against CPS. In order to get this change we need hold CPS accountable for all of its flaws, and all of the people hurt by them.
I am sorry you have been so offended by my posts, as I have said repeatedly, I was never looking to offend anyone. No, I am not on this site for information on getting my children back, I am here because, as someone about to enter a field dealing with children involved in CPS, I would like to know as much as I possibly can. It’s clear that your experiences with the system have been very negative, and I am sorry. You talk of all the parents who were hurt by CPS wrongfully taking their children, I could tell you horror stories of children NOT taken by CPS who should have been. I have seen everything from initials carved into a 4-year-olds arm, to hearing the explicit details of a 13-year-old describing the rape by her father. Just as the parents and children who are traumatized by being taken away deserve a better system, so do the kids left in the hands of monsters. I am not here to argue which side is worse, I am simply here to point out that there is another side, a side that deserves equal attention in CPS reform. This site, as it is my understanding, is not only to help wronged parents, but also to gain awareness and promote change and advocacy against CPS. In order to get this change we need hold CPS accountable for all of its flaws, and all of the people hurt by them.
Hi again,
Gary, thanks again for your posts. You mentioned how you are not torn on the issues, and how I am. Your three suggestions are definitely clear.
1. Protect children from serious abuse and serious neglect, (In case you haven't read it, that was the directions of the original Federal Law, Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act of 1977 Serious being the operative word.)
2. Punish ALL real offenders in the Criminal Justice system. That way there is real punishment for the real offenders. CPS just takes the children away, people who truly abuse and neglect do not want the children anyway. What punishment is that. Put their butts in Jail when they INTENTIONALLY injure a child.
3. Do their job as they think it is defined. BUT, OBEY ALL THE LAWS AND THE CONSTITUTIONS OF THE UNITED STATES AND THEIR STATE. There is not one acceptable excuse for disobeying the Laws or the Constitutions, especially "Under the Color of Law".
I think my problem is that so much of CPS and child abuse cases are so not black and white, but huge areas of gray. I mentioned before that I work with traumatized children. I’m residential staff and the main population I work with are teenage girls. The majority of them, unfortunately, have been sexually abused. I understand the legal system, and the innocent until proven guilty, it just sucks that things like sexual abuse often have no physical evidence. None of my clients have their perpetrators behind bars, and the main reason, if you ask them, is it’s not worth going to court. They know they will be dragged through the mud, that a defense attorney will bring up every little issue in their dark pasts, and they will be traumatized over and over again. They also know that the odds of getting a conviction are rare, because in the end its “He said/She said.” And this is why I am torn. We can either put more weight on victims testimony, and not question their word, which probably would put more offenders behind bars, however it is also inevitable that this would lead to innocent people being wrongfully convicted. Or we can leave the laws as they are now, which require substantial physical proof that is usually impossible to obtain.
I honestly think a good balance would be something along the lines of keeping the burden of proof the same, however I think the sentences, especially for child rape need to be upped from the pathetic current 5-7 years, to a nice 25-50 year first time sentence, and a life sentence for the second offense. I think steep punishments might deter possible offenders.
Gary also said:
“You say for us to contact the media, contact our politicians, spread the word, let the public know about the problems with CPS. What do you think we have been trying to do, for years. When you approach these people they automatically take the opinion that we are in favor of unpunished child abuse. They think that we are just angry because we got caught. The smile and say they will look into it, then silence. It is not an easy task. Some headway is being made by groups like this one. Some people in these groups are very very well informed and keep butting their head against the wall.”
This quote pretty much illustrates my entire point. Whether its true or not, if you approach a politician looking for CPS reform and you tell them a story of how your children were taken unjustly, your plight appears to be more for personal reasons, than for an actual reform of a flawed system. Now, lets say I go to the same politician with my story of kids not being removed from an abusive home. Well, the politician simply tells me your story and says, “We don’t want to keep parents from their children if its unnecessary.” And to you, the politician tells my story and says “ We need to take every precaution because we don’t want to keep kids in potentially abusive homes.” So basically, you and I, both looking for reform, knock each other down, and nothing gets accomplished.
Now if we go into together, and we shed light on all of areas of problems and concern, what argument does this politician have. Suddenly, you don’t look like an angry parent just trying to get your kids back, you look like a well-informed, well-educated consumer who truly recognizes the flaws of CPS.
You asked “How Long Does It take to fix a problem.” I personally think the reason the problem hasn’t been fixed is because children and CPS issues have taken a major back seat in recent years. The biggest issues today are the War in Iraq, Same-sex marriage, and Politician sex scandals. CPS cases are far from glamorous, and people like to pretend the problem doesn’t exist. It’s not fun for people to admit that children are being abused or being wrongfully taken from their homes. It’s one of those things where people think, “If we don’t acknowledge it, it doesn’t exist.” We need to force these people to realize that there is a problem, and it NEEDS to be fixed.
If congress was presented with a clear set of guidelines and instructions I think it would make it much easier, (I’ve gone to your fixcps.com site and there are some items I disagree with, but for the most part something like that would be perfect)
This is not an easy battle, but with parents, foster parents, frustrated CPS workers, and child advocates working together, we can make the nation and congress pay attention and get actual results.
Like I said before the whole issue of CPS and child abuse is such an area of gray. It is impossible that every solution will make everybody happy, but we definitely can do a lot better than we are now. I was not trying to upset anybody with my posts, but there is definitely another side of CPS, and people truly looking to fight it should be aware of it.
Gary, thanks again for your posts. You mentioned how you are not torn on the issues, and how I am. Your three suggestions are definitely clear.
1. Protect children from serious abuse and serious neglect, (In case you haven't read it, that was the directions of the original Federal Law, Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act of 1977 Serious being the operative word.)
2. Punish ALL real offenders in the Criminal Justice system. That way there is real punishment for the real offenders. CPS just takes the children away, people who truly abuse and neglect do not want the children anyway. What punishment is that. Put their butts in Jail when they INTENTIONALLY injure a child.
3. Do their job as they think it is defined. BUT, OBEY ALL THE LAWS AND THE CONSTITUTIONS OF THE UNITED STATES AND THEIR STATE. There is not one acceptable excuse for disobeying the Laws or the Constitutions, especially "Under the Color of Law".
I think my problem is that so much of CPS and child abuse cases are so not black and white, but huge areas of gray. I mentioned before that I work with traumatized children. I’m residential staff and the main population I work with are teenage girls. The majority of them, unfortunately, have been sexually abused. I understand the legal system, and the innocent until proven guilty, it just sucks that things like sexual abuse often have no physical evidence. None of my clients have their perpetrators behind bars, and the main reason, if you ask them, is it’s not worth going to court. They know they will be dragged through the mud, that a defense attorney will bring up every little issue in their dark pasts, and they will be traumatized over and over again. They also know that the odds of getting a conviction are rare, because in the end its “He said/She said.” And this is why I am torn. We can either put more weight on victims testimony, and not question their word, which probably would put more offenders behind bars, however it is also inevitable that this would lead to innocent people being wrongfully convicted. Or we can leave the laws as they are now, which require substantial physical proof that is usually impossible to obtain.
I honestly think a good balance would be something along the lines of keeping the burden of proof the same, however I think the sentences, especially for child rape need to be upped from the pathetic current 5-7 years, to a nice 25-50 year first time sentence, and a life sentence for the second offense. I think steep punishments might deter possible offenders.
Gary also said:
“You say for us to contact the media, contact our politicians, spread the word, let the public know about the problems with CPS. What do you think we have been trying to do, for years. When you approach these people they automatically take the opinion that we are in favor of unpunished child abuse. They think that we are just angry because we got caught. The smile and say they will look into it, then silence. It is not an easy task. Some headway is being made by groups like this one. Some people in these groups are very very well informed and keep butting their head against the wall.”
This quote pretty much illustrates my entire point. Whether its true or not, if you approach a politician looking for CPS reform and you tell them a story of how your children were taken unjustly, your plight appears to be more for personal reasons, than for an actual reform of a flawed system. Now, lets say I go to the same politician with my story of kids not being removed from an abusive home. Well, the politician simply tells me your story and says, “We don’t want to keep parents from their children if its unnecessary.” And to you, the politician tells my story and says “ We need to take every precaution because we don’t want to keep kids in potentially abusive homes.” So basically, you and I, both looking for reform, knock each other down, and nothing gets accomplished.
Now if we go into together, and we shed light on all of areas of problems and concern, what argument does this politician have. Suddenly, you don’t look like an angry parent just trying to get your kids back, you look like a well-informed, well-educated consumer who truly recognizes the flaws of CPS.
You asked “How Long Does It take to fix a problem.” I personally think the reason the problem hasn’t been fixed is because children and CPS issues have taken a major back seat in recent years. The biggest issues today are the War in Iraq, Same-sex marriage, and Politician sex scandals. CPS cases are far from glamorous, and people like to pretend the problem doesn’t exist. It’s not fun for people to admit that children are being abused or being wrongfully taken from their homes. It’s one of those things where people think, “If we don’t acknowledge it, it doesn’t exist.” We need to force these people to realize that there is a problem, and it NEEDS to be fixed.
If congress was presented with a clear set of guidelines and instructions I think it would make it much easier, (I’ve gone to your fixcps.com site and there are some items I disagree with, but for the most part something like that would be perfect)
This is not an easy battle, but with parents, foster parents, frustrated CPS workers, and child advocates working together, we can make the nation and congress pay attention and get actual results.
Like I said before the whole issue of CPS and child abuse is such an area of gray. It is impossible that every solution will make everybody happy, but we definitely can do a lot better than we are now. I was not trying to upset anybody with my posts, but there is definitely another side of CPS, and people truly looking to fight it should be aware of it.
Hope,
I think we are both saying the same thing.
The real issue is that CPS operates without any oversight. No one is looking over their shoulder to insure they are following the laws, that they are performing their duties, that they are spending the enormous amount of money they receive appropriately. In most states the overview of the various CPS agencies falls to the Office of the Governor. It should fall under a specially organized and specially trained Oversight Task Force that reports and is accountable directly to the State Attorney General. Just as Internal Affairs to check and balance the Police.
The only absolute in any of this is that left unattended ALL government agencies will grow to the point where they are abusive and intrusive to the very people they are designed to protect and serve. In perspective the worst child abuser in the country is CPS. Here in Georgia last year 5,916 precious little children were ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT DOUBT Physically or Sexually Abused. These children must be protected and vindicated when we do not protect them.
The next reality that we would have to face. We pretty much have a complete breakdown in the Moral character in to many of our American People. There is very little respect for the rights and property of others. I really don't want to go there but we can not legitimately try to fix a broken system without identifying what is broken, why it is broken, and what needs to be done to fix it.
I agree with you that it will take all sides in the struggle to fix it. That is why we solicit CPS workers, Politicians, Foster Parents, Grand Parents, Parents, and Children to join the Fix CPS group. That is why when one of those do join we absolutely will not allow disparaging remarks or comments. We can not stop the first one but we quickly block anyone who attacks someone for any reason.
The only thing I am certain of in this struggle is that it seems impossible to get a group of any size together and focused on forming a Plan of Action and carrying out the Plan. When I have succeeded in getting a small group together be it In Person, via EMail, via Telephone the only certainty is that if there are Ten people we will have Fifteen non flexible opinions. As well as other realities that you addressed, this hurts our cause and makes us look disenfrancised and radical.
Another major problem. As near as I have been able to identify, it seems that almost all of the training literature and information comes from just two sources. The Child Welfare League of America is the primary source. Every state and most county agencies are members. Their training literature, videos, and audios are far to expensive for private citizens to obtain and they will not sell unless you are a member and you can not become a member unless you are and agency or non-profit. ALL of their training aides I have seen are Psycho Babble BS based only on the opinions of some person with letters after their names. Their training aides should be based on the Law and the Constitution, instead they educate CPS workers in how to overcome the restraints of the Law and the Constitution. The other source slips my old mind right now but I have been to their site. They are newer and seem to be far more correct in their training.
The only disagreement I have with you post is the justly accused and rightfully convicted sexual molesters should be sentenced to Life without the possibility of parole. We should designate one major High Security Prison for them and send only Sexual deviates there. I do not feel that these people are reformable so let them act out their twisted thoughts on each other.
I am sorry I go on and on, there is so much to say, so much to do, and so little time.
What parts of the info on Fix CPS do you disagree with. I would seriously like to know. I value the opinion of others and especially from intelligent persons who seem to research before they form an opinion or position.
I think we are both saying the same thing.
The real issue is that CPS operates without any oversight. No one is looking over their shoulder to insure they are following the laws, that they are performing their duties, that they are spending the enormous amount of money they receive appropriately. In most states the overview of the various CPS agencies falls to the Office of the Governor. It should fall under a specially organized and specially trained Oversight Task Force that reports and is accountable directly to the State Attorney General. Just as Internal Affairs to check and balance the Police.
The only absolute in any of this is that left unattended ALL government agencies will grow to the point where they are abusive and intrusive to the very people they are designed to protect and serve. In perspective the worst child abuser in the country is CPS. Here in Georgia last year 5,916 precious little children were ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT DOUBT Physically or Sexually Abused. These children must be protected and vindicated when we do not protect them.
The next reality that we would have to face. We pretty much have a complete breakdown in the Moral character in to many of our American People. There is very little respect for the rights and property of others. I really don't want to go there but we can not legitimately try to fix a broken system without identifying what is broken, why it is broken, and what needs to be done to fix it.
I agree with you that it will take all sides in the struggle to fix it. That is why we solicit CPS workers, Politicians, Foster Parents, Grand Parents, Parents, and Children to join the Fix CPS group. That is why when one of those do join we absolutely will not allow disparaging remarks or comments. We can not stop the first one but we quickly block anyone who attacks someone for any reason.
The only thing I am certain of in this struggle is that it seems impossible to get a group of any size together and focused on forming a Plan of Action and carrying out the Plan. When I have succeeded in getting a small group together be it In Person, via EMail, via Telephone the only certainty is that if there are Ten people we will have Fifteen non flexible opinions. As well as other realities that you addressed, this hurts our cause and makes us look disenfrancised and radical.
Another major problem. As near as I have been able to identify, it seems that almost all of the training literature and information comes from just two sources. The Child Welfare League of America is the primary source. Every state and most county agencies are members. Their training literature, videos, and audios are far to expensive for private citizens to obtain and they will not sell unless you are a member and you can not become a member unless you are and agency or non-profit. ALL of their training aides I have seen are Psycho Babble BS based only on the opinions of some person with letters after their names. Their training aides should be based on the Law and the Constitution, instead they educate CPS workers in how to overcome the restraints of the Law and the Constitution. The other source slips my old mind right now but I have been to their site. They are newer and seem to be far more correct in their training.
The only disagreement I have with you post is the justly accused and rightfully convicted sexual molesters should be sentenced to Life without the possibility of parole. We should designate one major High Security Prison for them and send only Sexual deviates there. I do not feel that these people are reformable so let them act out their twisted thoughts on each other.
I am sorry I go on and on, there is so much to say, so much to do, and so little time.
What parts of the info on Fix CPS do you disagree with. I would seriously like to know. I value the opinion of others and especially from intelligent persons who seem to research before they form an opinion or position.
Difference in Hope11 and Hope
I have used the log in of Hope for a very long time and do not want anyone to confuse Hope11 with Hope.
My posts have my name signed at the bottom but we all know there are lurkers and since this individual's posts do not have their signature,
I want it to be known that Hope and Hope11 are not the same person and furthermore, I do not know who Hope11 is.
My posts have my name signed at the bottom but we all know there are lurkers and since this individual's posts do not have their signature,
I want it to be known that Hope and Hope11 are not the same person and furthermore, I do not know who Hope11 is.
Joanna Wright
Hope4KidZ, Inc.
http://www.hope4kidz.org
http://www.childabuseawareness.com
http://www.kaylaforever7.com
Hope4KidZ, Inc.
http://www.hope4kidz.org
http://www.childabuseawareness.com
http://www.kaylaforever7.com
I have a book called, Writer's Inc.
There is a page in there that summarizes basic thinking skills.
It gives these main categories:
Knowledge
Comprehension
Application
Analysis
Synthesis
Evaluation
In a cult situation, or 'total institution,' those in authority claim a monopoly on these thinking processes.
In the CPS investigation situation, knowledge or facts seem hard to come by. Exculpatory evidence is withheld, and evidence is fabricated, or ignored. This may have a lot to do with our system of jurisprudence, which is adversarial (battle), rather than inquisitional (fact finding).
With the advent of the mental health profession into the process, 'comprehension,' perceptions or interpretations are controlled. An adversarial 'interpretation' of events during a psychological evaluation or counseling can be just as bad as distortion of the facts. Interpretations are based on statistical probability, among other things, such as the source of the funding. Thus the hostility toward mental health professionals.
'Application' or decision-making is driving by funding.
'Analysis' or comparison of cases is hard to do, except in places like this forum. If a person does not have a basis for comparison, they think they are all alone and isolated. The mandates for confidentiality drive this problem.
'Synthesis' or planning is hard to do, because parents are punished in proportion to their success in cooperating, many times. Parents can't plan anything, because there are no fixed rules. They have no control over a series of steps that will get results. No matter which way they turn, the rules change.
'Evaluation' or judgement is up to the judge. And here again, judicial ethics goes by the wayside because foster care and adoption generate entitlement funding for courts.
*****
Hope11,
You are right,
that if the facts of the case are withheld, distorted, fabricated or ignored, then children will suffer, no matter whether the parents are innocent or guilty. So truth in investigations is imperative in a "united front."
Distortion and reinterpretation of facts by mental health has to be challenged, no matter whether the parents are innocent or guilty.
Decision-making cannot be driven by funding, regardless of who is right or wrong.
The public must have access to a database of cases, where they can compare cases and challenge what is being done, regardless of who is guilty or innocent.
Parents must not be subjected to constant changing of the rules. They must know ahead of time what actions will get what results. Plea bargains for both the guilty and innocent don't accomplish anything.
Courts and judges must be driven by truth and justice, not by entitlement funding for the Court Improvement Program, based on foster and adoption numbers, regardless of who is right or wrong.
There is a page in there that summarizes basic thinking skills.
It gives these main categories:
Knowledge
Comprehension
Application
Analysis
Synthesis
Evaluation
In a cult situation, or 'total institution,' those in authority claim a monopoly on these thinking processes.
In the CPS investigation situation, knowledge or facts seem hard to come by. Exculpatory evidence is withheld, and evidence is fabricated, or ignored. This may have a lot to do with our system of jurisprudence, which is adversarial (battle), rather than inquisitional (fact finding).
With the advent of the mental health profession into the process, 'comprehension,' perceptions or interpretations are controlled. An adversarial 'interpretation' of events during a psychological evaluation or counseling can be just as bad as distortion of the facts. Interpretations are based on statistical probability, among other things, such as the source of the funding. Thus the hostility toward mental health professionals.
'Application' or decision-making is driving by funding.
'Analysis' or comparison of cases is hard to do, except in places like this forum. If a person does not have a basis for comparison, they think they are all alone and isolated. The mandates for confidentiality drive this problem.
'Synthesis' or planning is hard to do, because parents are punished in proportion to their success in cooperating, many times. Parents can't plan anything, because there are no fixed rules. They have no control over a series of steps that will get results. No matter which way they turn, the rules change.
'Evaluation' or judgement is up to the judge. And here again, judicial ethics goes by the wayside because foster care and adoption generate entitlement funding for courts.
*****
Hope11,
You are right,
that if the facts of the case are withheld, distorted, fabricated or ignored, then children will suffer, no matter whether the parents are innocent or guilty. So truth in investigations is imperative in a "united front."
Distortion and reinterpretation of facts by mental health has to be challenged, no matter whether the parents are innocent or guilty.
Decision-making cannot be driven by funding, regardless of who is right or wrong.
The public must have access to a database of cases, where they can compare cases and challenge what is being done, regardless of who is guilty or innocent.
Parents must not be subjected to constant changing of the rules. They must know ahead of time what actions will get what results. Plea bargains for both the guilty and innocent don't accomplish anything.
Courts and judges must be driven by truth and justice, not by entitlement funding for the Court Improvement Program, based on foster and adoption numbers, regardless of who is right or wrong.
Geraldo, Thursday, false accusations of Munchausens By Proxy.
Hope11:
Expert insiders within the Child Protection INDUSTRY reported
many years ago that the agency culture inside of these
agencies is extremely resistant to true reform.
These insiders actually stated that the best way to reform
Child Protection would be to totally dismantle it, start
over from scratch and ban any and all people from the
old regime. The "mindset" in the agencies is infectious.
I think part of the problem is that too many of the
people in these agencies are CRUSADERS.
More recently Family Rights advocates have come to
be concerned that every disaster leads to MORE MONEY
for the agencies.
Did you see the news story where a state had
three kids die in foster homes, and state inspectors
came to look over the records? The office of
the agency kept them waiting for half an hour,
they decided to force their way in and an administrator
tried to physically block their entry. They pushed past
and in the file room they found workers using white
out on the files of the dead kids.
Not one was criminally charged.
Yep, system stooges cried for more money!
Hope11, I just think there is TOO MUCH MONEY
at stake, BILLIONS of dollars are at stake
in the Child Protection INDUSTRY.
Caseworkers, management, contractors, defenders,
courts, GAL's, Judges, prosecutors, psychologists,
""therapists"" (who aren't really) etc...
It's reached a level of corruption such that I fear
reforming it is like the idea of reforming THE MAFIA.
People working to REALLY reform the agencies have
actually been threatened.
The Comptroller of TX Strayhorn found that massive
numbers of kids in foster care were put on
Psychotropics like Ritalen by doctors who wrote
the prescriptions without ever having SEEN the child.
Even though she was the comptroller and authorized
to investigate, the agencies refused to hand
over the records. A high court ruled this refusal to
hand over the records was WRONG.
I don't think she ever got the records before
she was voted out.
I personally caught two workers in major and
glaring LIES to the court, blatant PERJURY, but
the Judges don't want to order prosecutors
to go after this kind of abuse.
Heck, Bench Guides or Bench notes in many states
actually instruct the Judge to make their decision
on each child with AGENCY and COURT FUNDING
in mind! It's actually in print!
Florida reached a point where they were so
disgraced by corruption that Jerry Regier was
hired to "clean it up". He had a good record,
but within two years he was caught PARTAKING
in the bribery, graft and conflict of interest.
The "good man" became corrupt!
The latest trend in Florida is to dismantle
the agency and have Child Protection done
by LAW ENFORCEMENT. The big problem so far
has been that they hired several of the caseworkers
dumped out of FL DCYF. Now when these workers
tell LIES, they get criminal prosecution. Law
Enforcement agencies are less willing to accept the
kind of LIES caseworkers are accustomed to using.
The lobbyists for the CPS INDUSTRY focus
on the horror stories as if they are the day to day
activity of CPS, which is a LIE.
The horror stories are a tiny percentage of the
cases where kids are removed from their homes.
This is a form of demagoguery.
My family saw a smaller version of this when
a new friend referred us to a program that
should have helped us. The "stooges"
actually tried to pretend to our new friend that
there was much more to our case than what
we had told her. She was a bit terrified for a
moment, but then I pointed out that we had
shown her all of the actual agency documents,
and had concealed NOTHING! I described this
attempt as the "tip of the iceburg" tactic.
The stooges actually wanted to IMPLY that
there was some hardcore abuse or violence that
we had concealed.
When our new friend thought about this
she became ANGRY about this tactic.
The agency itself was actually able to block
us from the helpful private program.
Our new friend was asked later to go do
her usual "success story" speach used to
enhance the support and FUNDING for the
program.
She refused to go and told the stooges
she was angry about how they had abused
my family.
The "tip of the iceburg" lie is one that CPS agencies
use a lot.
The pretense is that massive numbers of
child removals are all for the "horror" reasons.
This pretense is recycled over and over again
in the news media and every "press release"
that the agency Public Relations person issues.
Every state has Citizen Review Boards.
It SOUNDS good.
But they are neither made up of Citizens nor
are they accessable to citizens as an avenue
of redress.
Where is the "citizen" in "Citizen Review Boards"??
I have seen first hand how "Family Preservation Services"
can be perverted to be primarily more INQUISITION
where the agency has no real case, and wants dirt to use.
I have seen how Psych Evals can be RIGGED for
negative outcome by the input of a one inch stack
of documents from the agency people who are NOT
qualified.
Families are not supposed to have a Service Plan
just IMPOSED upon them. Families are supposed
to be allowed "Family Active Participation in the
FORMATION of the Service Plan".
The agency and court denied us this even though
it was asked for in and out of court.
Their "Service Plan" was a scam and a sham,
an IMPOSED "railroad job" with services that
were baseless and flat out not possible to complete.
High courts have said that the ability to object later
is NOT a substitute for this Family Active Participation
in the FORMATION of the Service Plan.
Once a Judge recuses themself for bias, they
cannot later ""UNRECUSE"" themself. We had one try.
We have seen so many services and maneuvers
that SOUND GOOD, have nice SOUNDING titles,
but turn out to be some kind of sick joke.
The camps at Auschwitz and Dachau were called
"work camps" and even had "Work Makes you Free"
welded into the masthead of the metal gates.
The "reform from within" crowd has had 30 years
and still hasn't brought the agencies into
compliance with the original contract between
the Feds (funding) and the states.
The money is 30 years overdue to be CUT OFF.
Remember that real child abuse is a CRIME.
The agencies need to get OUT of the realm
of handling NON-CRIME.
The whole NON-CRIME court used to remove
children is basically a violation of people's
rights under the US Constitution because
no NON-CRIME should impinge on the huge
LIBERTY INTEREST right to BE a family.
The "imminent danger" requirement has
been ignored for too long.
The whole Child Protection INDUSTRY has
evolved into an agency that second guesses
families to death, and imposes a socialist
agenda of "programs", bureaucracy and circumvents
the protections of the US Constitution.
Hope11, "reform from within" has had 30 years and
keeps being used to lobby for MORE MONEY
and MORE of the same corruption.
CPS agencies actually use their own failures
to lobby for more money.
Iowa removes children at 3 times the national average.
They STILL fail to remove the few kids who
really SHOULD be removed. (Shelby Duis, Boss, etc..)
I don't believe for one minute that parents
in Iowa abuse their children more.
We had a Governor, Vilsack, an adoptee who
worships Child Protection.
Please tell us more about your background, Hope.
Have you worked as a caseworker or contract ""SW""?
Licensed? Degree in what?
In your "indoctrination" how many times did
you have the Munchausens By Proxy thing
pushed on you? Did any professor ever
explain what went horribly WRONG with the
Munchausens By Proxy accusation?
Or it's fabricator?
That Munchausens By Proxy thing sure
is intellectually catchy, hard to forget.
Hope11:
Expert insiders within the Child Protection INDUSTRY reported
many years ago that the agency culture inside of these
agencies is extremely resistant to true reform.
These insiders actually stated that the best way to reform
Child Protection would be to totally dismantle it, start
over from scratch and ban any and all people from the
old regime. The "mindset" in the agencies is infectious.
I think part of the problem is that too many of the
people in these agencies are CRUSADERS.
More recently Family Rights advocates have come to
be concerned that every disaster leads to MORE MONEY
for the agencies.
Did you see the news story where a state had
three kids die in foster homes, and state inspectors
came to look over the records? The office of
the agency kept them waiting for half an hour,
they decided to force their way in and an administrator
tried to physically block their entry. They pushed past
and in the file room they found workers using white
out on the files of the dead kids.
Not one was criminally charged.
Yep, system stooges cried for more money!
Hope11, I just think there is TOO MUCH MONEY
at stake, BILLIONS of dollars are at stake
in the Child Protection INDUSTRY.
Caseworkers, management, contractors, defenders,
courts, GAL's, Judges, prosecutors, psychologists,
""therapists"" (who aren't really) etc...
It's reached a level of corruption such that I fear
reforming it is like the idea of reforming THE MAFIA.
People working to REALLY reform the agencies have
actually been threatened.
The Comptroller of TX Strayhorn found that massive
numbers of kids in foster care were put on
Psychotropics like Ritalen by doctors who wrote
the prescriptions without ever having SEEN the child.
Even though she was the comptroller and authorized
to investigate, the agencies refused to hand
over the records. A high court ruled this refusal to
hand over the records was WRONG.
I don't think she ever got the records before
she was voted out.
I personally caught two workers in major and
glaring LIES to the court, blatant PERJURY, but
the Judges don't want to order prosecutors
to go after this kind of abuse.
Heck, Bench Guides or Bench notes in many states
actually instruct the Judge to make their decision
on each child with AGENCY and COURT FUNDING
in mind! It's actually in print!
Florida reached a point where they were so
disgraced by corruption that Jerry Regier was
hired to "clean it up". He had a good record,
but within two years he was caught PARTAKING
in the bribery, graft and conflict of interest.
The "good man" became corrupt!
The latest trend in Florida is to dismantle
the agency and have Child Protection done
by LAW ENFORCEMENT. The big problem so far
has been that they hired several of the caseworkers
dumped out of FL DCYF. Now when these workers
tell LIES, they get criminal prosecution. Law
Enforcement agencies are less willing to accept the
kind of LIES caseworkers are accustomed to using.
The lobbyists for the CPS INDUSTRY focus
on the horror stories as if they are the day to day
activity of CPS, which is a LIE.
The horror stories are a tiny percentage of the
cases where kids are removed from their homes.
This is a form of demagoguery.
My family saw a smaller version of this when
a new friend referred us to a program that
should have helped us. The "stooges"
actually tried to pretend to our new friend that
there was much more to our case than what
we had told her. She was a bit terrified for a
moment, but then I pointed out that we had
shown her all of the actual agency documents,
and had concealed NOTHING! I described this
attempt as the "tip of the iceburg" tactic.
The stooges actually wanted to IMPLY that
there was some hardcore abuse or violence that
we had concealed.
When our new friend thought about this
she became ANGRY about this tactic.
The agency itself was actually able to block
us from the helpful private program.
Our new friend was asked later to go do
her usual "success story" speach used to
enhance the support and FUNDING for the
program.
She refused to go and told the stooges
she was angry about how they had abused
my family.
The "tip of the iceburg" lie is one that CPS agencies
use a lot.
The pretense is that massive numbers of
child removals are all for the "horror" reasons.
This pretense is recycled over and over again
in the news media and every "press release"
that the agency Public Relations person issues.
Every state has Citizen Review Boards.
It SOUNDS good.
But they are neither made up of Citizens nor
are they accessable to citizens as an avenue
of redress.
Where is the "citizen" in "Citizen Review Boards"??
I have seen first hand how "Family Preservation Services"
can be perverted to be primarily more INQUISITION
where the agency has no real case, and wants dirt to use.
I have seen how Psych Evals can be RIGGED for
negative outcome by the input of a one inch stack
of documents from the agency people who are NOT
qualified.
Families are not supposed to have a Service Plan
just IMPOSED upon them. Families are supposed
to be allowed "Family Active Participation in the
FORMATION of the Service Plan".
The agency and court denied us this even though
it was asked for in and out of court.
Their "Service Plan" was a scam and a sham,
an IMPOSED "railroad job" with services that
were baseless and flat out not possible to complete.
High courts have said that the ability to object later
is NOT a substitute for this Family Active Participation
in the FORMATION of the Service Plan.
Once a Judge recuses themself for bias, they
cannot later ""UNRECUSE"" themself. We had one try.
We have seen so many services and maneuvers
that SOUND GOOD, have nice SOUNDING titles,
but turn out to be some kind of sick joke.
The camps at Auschwitz and Dachau were called
"work camps" and even had "Work Makes you Free"
welded into the masthead of the metal gates.
The "reform from within" crowd has had 30 years
and still hasn't brought the agencies into
compliance with the original contract between
the Feds (funding) and the states.
The money is 30 years overdue to be CUT OFF.
Remember that real child abuse is a CRIME.
The agencies need to get OUT of the realm
of handling NON-CRIME.
The whole NON-CRIME court used to remove
children is basically a violation of people's
rights under the US Constitution because
no NON-CRIME should impinge on the huge
LIBERTY INTEREST right to BE a family.
The "imminent danger" requirement has
been ignored for too long.
The whole Child Protection INDUSTRY has
evolved into an agency that second guesses
families to death, and imposes a socialist
agenda of "programs", bureaucracy and circumvents
the protections of the US Constitution.
Hope11, "reform from within" has had 30 years and
keeps being used to lobby for MORE MONEY
and MORE of the same corruption.
CPS agencies actually use their own failures
to lobby for more money.
Iowa removes children at 3 times the national average.
They STILL fail to remove the few kids who
really SHOULD be removed. (Shelby Duis, Boss, etc..)
I don't believe for one minute that parents
in Iowa abuse their children more.
We had a Governor, Vilsack, an adoptee who
worships Child Protection.
Please tell us more about your background, Hope.
Have you worked as a caseworker or contract ""SW""?
Licensed? Degree in what?
In your "indoctrination" how many times did
you have the Munchausens By Proxy thing
pushed on you? Did any professor ever
explain what went horribly WRONG with the
Munchausens By Proxy accusation?
Or it's fabricator?
That Munchausens By Proxy thing sure
is intellectually catchy, hard to forget.
More on Iowa removing kids at three times national rate.
Disparity in County Rates of Abused Children
The rate of child abuse varied widely among Iowa’s counties in 2005, with rates much higher in some counties than in others (see Table 3). For instance, Wapello County’s rate of abuse (58.53 children per 1,000) was more than seven-fold the rate for Winneshiek County (7.80 children per 1,000). Similarly, the rates of abuse in Lucas, Jefferson, and Monroe counties were all at least five times as high as those in Winneshiek, Sioux, Grundy, and Lyon.
There is no single explanation for these variations in abuse across Iowa. Many of the counties with higher proportions of unemployment, child poverty, clandestine meth lab seizures, and single-parent households had higher child abuse rates. This is not true for all of the counties with high rates of abuse, however, and much of the difference remains unexplained.
There are noteworthy geographical features in the rates of abuse in Iowa. A map of counties with higher or lower rates of abuse (Chart 2) shows a clustering of rates of abuse, with higher rates of abuse in many southern and southeastern counties. Indeed, nine of the twelve counties with the highest rates of abuse in 2005 were located in this part of the state.
http://www.pcaiowa.org/iowa_child_abuse_numbers.html
This site displays a graph of the state of Iowa and the "unexplained" higher rates in some counties over others.
Disparity in County Rates of Abused Children
The rate of child abuse varied widely among Iowa’s counties in 2005, with rates much higher in some counties than in others (see Table 3). For instance, Wapello County’s rate of abuse (58.53 children per 1,000) was more than seven-fold the rate for Winneshiek County (7.80 children per 1,000). Similarly, the rates of abuse in Lucas, Jefferson, and Monroe counties were all at least five times as high as those in Winneshiek, Sioux, Grundy, and Lyon.
There is no single explanation for these variations in abuse across Iowa. Many of the counties with higher proportions of unemployment, child poverty, clandestine meth lab seizures, and single-parent households had higher child abuse rates. This is not true for all of the counties with high rates of abuse, however, and much of the difference remains unexplained.
There are noteworthy geographical features in the rates of abuse in Iowa. A map of counties with higher or lower rates of abuse (Chart 2) shows a clustering of rates of abuse, with higher rates of abuse in many southern and southeastern counties. Indeed, nine of the twelve counties with the highest rates of abuse in 2005 were located in this part of the state.
http://www.pcaiowa.org/iowa_child_abuse_numbers.html
This site displays a graph of the state of Iowa and the "unexplained" higher rates in some counties over others.
Social Worker Admits Lack of Fourth Amendment Training
A social worker from Howell, Michigan, contacted a Home School Legal Defense Association member family after receiving allegations regarding the family’s 15-year-old son.
The social worker received a tip that the 15-year-old wore the same clothes for two weeks and had scratches on his wrists. He told HSLDA Senior Counsel Chris Klicka that he feared the 15-year-old was suicidal.
However, the family explained that these accusations were ridiculous. The son did often wear the same clothes when he went out—he had his favorites and washed them so that he could rewear them, just like a typical teenager. As for the scratches, they came from rabbit cages; the family keeps rabbits on their farm and when working with the rabbits, the son would get scratches from the cages. The scratches—not slashes—were minor accidents, not signs of suicidal distress.
Nonetheless, the social worker insisted he had to enter the family’s home and interview the son.
Attorney Klicka firmly told him that the family declined his request. Klicka explained that last year he had helped pass a law through the Michigan legislature which requires all social workers to be trained in their duty to protect the statutory and constitutional rights of families—this includes the Fourth Amendment.
When Klicka asked if he received that important training, the social worker sheepishly admitted, “No I have not—but I am going to make sure I do!“ Klicka said, “I thought so, because if you had been properly trained you would understand why the family stood on their Fourth Amendment rights and said no to you coming in and interviewing the son.â€
A social worker from Howell, Michigan, contacted a Home School Legal Defense Association member family after receiving allegations regarding the family’s 15-year-old son.
The social worker received a tip that the 15-year-old wore the same clothes for two weeks and had scratches on his wrists. He told HSLDA Senior Counsel Chris Klicka that he feared the 15-year-old was suicidal.
However, the family explained that these accusations were ridiculous. The son did often wear the same clothes when he went out—he had his favorites and washed them so that he could rewear them, just like a typical teenager. As for the scratches, they came from rabbit cages; the family keeps rabbits on their farm and when working with the rabbits, the son would get scratches from the cages. The scratches—not slashes—were minor accidents, not signs of suicidal distress.
Nonetheless, the social worker insisted he had to enter the family’s home and interview the son.
Attorney Klicka firmly told him that the family declined his request. Klicka explained that last year he had helped pass a law through the Michigan legislature which requires all social workers to be trained in their duty to protect the statutory and constitutional rights of families—this includes the Fourth Amendment.
When Klicka asked if he received that important training, the social worker sheepishly admitted, “No I have not—but I am going to make sure I do!“ Klicka said, “I thought so, because if you had been properly trained you would understand why the family stood on their Fourth Amendment rights and said no to you coming in and interviewing the son.â€
-
fightingfor3
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:40 pm
Becoming a parent is not a right, it is a privilege.
Actually it is my right. It became a privilege when CPS took my children.
Ask anyone who was unable to conceive children, or who have had children who’ve died, it was a privilege to raise them.
Ask anyone of us who's family has been torn apart, our children ripped away from our arms, while our children cry "how come I can't come home, mommy?"
Parents who abuse their children, abuse the privilege of being able to raise and love them, and should have their children taken away.
I think everyone on this board would agree.
Children should not have to suffer abuse from those who are supposed to love them best, because well it’s a parents “right” to do whatever they want.
It's not anyone's right to do what they want if that includes abuse. And in no way do I or do I believe that anyone on this board is proclaiming that it is their right to abuse their children.
Children are currently the most oppressed members of society. They have no rights, and their well-being and futures are determined by the adults around them.
Which is why I am mom. It is my job to speak for my children because I know them and understand their needs. However, that has been taken away from me and now strangers decide their futures. Does that make sense to you?
CPS has an obligation to act in the best of interest of these children.
Best interest? Really? How would you determine my children's best interest? No better than the people who stole them. Best interest to separate them? Best interest to not let me see them for a year? Best interest to allow me to see them for one hour a week in a cold office after I was a stay at home mom? Best interest to change their school, their doctor, everything that they were secure and comfortable with?
Whether that means requiring parents to take education classes, drug abuse programs, anger management etc., or removing the children from the home
My children have suffered more abuse at the hands of CPS than they could have ever by me in my wildest imagination. I have never been a criminal. I have never used drugs yet I have to call every day to see if I have to go in for random drug testing. Parenting classes? Are you kidding me? I have been in parenting classes for over a year and half. I have completed the class several times over now and have spent several times leading the class itself. I teach my clients how to parent as well. The instructor (the social worker's sister) is a past (possibly current) drug user and allowed her children to witness severe domestic violence in her home.
This is all under the assumption that parents are needing these services. Tell me, who exactly is to determine what "classes" or "education" I need, not only do I need but that I need to become the parent which by your or someone Else's definition will make me a fit parent?
I promise you CPS is not an organization looking to destroy families, it is an organization looking to protect and serve children.
Is there anything you can offer to back up this promise?
I think that it is very clear that your opinion is biased. If you are coming onto a board for research and with an open mind, then ask what our experiences with CPS are. This isn't research to us; it's our lives, our families.
If people seem like they want to "fight" or argue your position it is because we know what CPS is suppose to do. We know that there are parents out there that do abuse their children. We know how the legal system is suppose to work. And all the statistics are out there to prove it. We hear it all the time. What we don't commonly hear is what happens in foster homes that go awry. That there are parents who are good parents who get classified and treated and looked at as if we are monsters. What we don't hear is how the kids have been ripped apart, the lies, the broken system. What we don't hear about is what happens to these families after all the devestation.
I can go to any CPS website and see all the wonderful work CPS has done. I can turn on my local radio station and hear how many kids were neglected or abused last year alone and what these soldiers of CPS are doing to protect our children. If this site seems negative to anyone or biased it is. It is because it's my children. It's my life. And unfortunately it is our circumstances you don't hear otherwise, if it weren't for this site.
We understand you have the children in mind, but we have them in mind, body, heart, and soul. My children were abused, but not by me, by the system. And I can only hope that with the same passion that would posses you to come on here in defense of CPS you would come to defense of the children who CPS has harmed and abused.
It is a slap in the face when I come onto this site and in the midst of the tears and pain someone appears to remind me of a system that was designed to help and to protect my children. Just keep in mind that those of us that are here are here because that system no longer exists.
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