How long is this supposed to take

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redhot9500
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How long is this supposed to take

Postby redhot9500 » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:15 am

It has been 3 weeks since my children were taken and placed with their fathers and "the Petition" still has NOT been filed? They told me that i would have a court date within 3 weeks i even called the court and they dont have anything on me nor my children! I cant call the social worker because every time i do she has found something else to hold against me that is completely untrue as usual. Im just confused if someone knows more then i do about this please let me know :?

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Postby Gary Shaw » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:53 am

You did not say what state your are in and the State Laws vary slightly. However Federal Law states that when the children are removed from their home the following court events MUST happen:

1. Within 72 hours of the removal of the children a Formal Intake Hearing must be held. This hearing is for the Court to make legal the removal of the children. You will probably not be allowed to say anything.

2. After the formal intake hearing CPS has five working days to file a petition stating why the children should remain out of their home.

3. Within ten days of the filing of the Petition it is required there be an Adjudication Hearing. This is the first time you will be heard and is for the court to Adjuicate (Judge) if the children are suffering from maltreatment or not.

4. The next hearing is a Dispositional Hearing, sometimes held immediately after the Adjudication Hearing (same day). This is where the court orders a certain plan of action for the children and families, ie: A Case Plan. Only the court can order a Case Plan.

You really need to educate yourself about the Laws and YOUR Constitutional Rights. CPS seldom does what the Laws or their own rules and policies say they must. They get away with it because WE let them. You must become more knowledgeable than they are concerning the Laws, Rules, Policies, and Rights. Fortunately that is not too difficult, they do read these things.

All of the Federal Laws and Constitution are available online at the government websites. Most are on www.FixCPS.org and you can access them under Legal Research as a guest, if you wish.
The two enemies of the people are criminals and the government, so let us tie the second down with the Constitution so the second will not become a legalized version of the first.
Thomas Jefferson

Marina
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Postby Marina » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:34 am

This is an old trick, what they are doing.

They convinced you to place your children with an abusive relative, then they will take the children from him because you have abandoned them and he is abusive. They will deny that CPS placed them with the abusive relative themselves, especially since he won't pass a background check.

File a kidnapping report with the police, or you will be accused of abandoning your child. Name social services as part of the conspiracy to kidnap.

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:56 am

I have to agree with Both. They are up to something. It is taking way too long not having to hear anything. They had broke not several, but possibly many rules and laws.

Hold them accountable for their actions.
Do something. Do not talk to the Caseworkers until you get the answer that you needed.
If possible, get a Lawyer to protect your Family Interests.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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Postby Bob_Lynn » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:48 am

Gary Shaw wrote:1. Within 72 hours of the removal of the children a Formal Intake Hearing must be held. This hearing is for the Court to make legal the removal of the children. You will probably not be allowed to say anything.


See what you're saying Gary (not meaning as criticism)? What you're saying is that the children are taken illegally (kidnapped) in the first place and the hearing is supposed to justify the kidnapping. This is of course absolutely absurd. No court in America can have jurisdiction to "make legal" a kidnapping unless you accept jurisdiction without challenge.

Furthermore, you add "You will probably not be allowed to say anything". So you're saying that not only is the court trying to justify a kidnapping, but you have no right to any kind of a defense, no due process and no equal rights. This is what you can find in any dictatorship or any uncivilized nation. But this is supposed to be America, the land of liberty and justice for all, the human rights bastion of the world.

So what can you do about criminals acting under color of law? You must fight agressively. You must throw the Constitution in their collective faces and challenge their authority. You can do this by filing motions and making the court record. Even if you are "not allowed to speak" as dictated by the tyrannical fraud in the black robe, you still make your case on the court record in writing. For more information on this, please review the section on The Family Court Hearing - A Constitutional Defense, on the LIFE website:

http://www.life-vs-cps.com/index_files/Page357.htm
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. Edward R. Murrow

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Frustrated
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Postby Frustrated » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:02 am

I think what it means is that every time they remove a Child, they must have a Removal Court Order. The Judge has to still sign it off. They can't just remove and that's that. But they don't require a Court Order if the Children are placed with Father or Relatives. I think in their interpretations, only applies to Foster Care.

Right? Or does this apply to EVERY REMOVAL IN EVERY FAMILY INCLUDING PLACEMENT WITH RELATIVES???

Also to further to know that the Investigation process lasts up to 30 days. Some up to 60, 90 Days...Some longer.
I don't know if she is in Investigation Process?
Perhaps that is why she is having 3 weeks to wait. Perhaps she has Investigation in process and will last up to 30 days?

I know the CPS Manual states that each Removal of said Child must apply to Court Order for Removal. However, I don't know if it applies to Relative Placement. But Foster Care, it is a MUST. The Judge has to sign it off.

So it can not be declared "kidnapping".

I think it would make sense if they were to get such Order but I don't know why they are making her wait 3 weeks, but my guess is that she is in Investigation process which would last up to 30 days to state their findings. Yes the Removal can be done during the Investigation Process. They are crossing all the T's and the I's...just to make sure.
If they are wrong, they will call for Administrative Review Hearing and have the Kids returned back to the Parents. (I think this is appalling due to their sloppy work in its investigation process). But rarely do happen.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

Bob_Lynn
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Postby Bob_Lynn » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:54 am

Frustrated wrote:I think what it means is that every time they remove a Child, they must have a Removal Court Order.


This says exactly what it means:

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

There are NO exceptions.

Frustrated wrote:So it can not be declared "kidnapping".


If it violates the 4th Amendment, it is a kidnapping, there is no other valid description. This is clearly defined in the federal code 18 U.S.C. § 1201 (kidnapping):

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/t ... 8&sec=1201
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. Edward R. Murrow

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Postby Frustrated » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:15 pm

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

But I cannot seem to hear often from these Whackos claiming this:

"We needed to remove the Children based on exguiuating circumstances, and were in imminent danger/risk of Harm so they are in need of PROTECTION."

Don't you hear that often?
I did.

And they claims that this would over power this Consitution! and this would be an exception!
They said:
"We have the POWER to remove if we see that these Children are in need of PROTECTION due to imminent danger/risk of Harm."

So, WHERE IS THE PROOF?!
I would ask them, and they said they had none. :roll:

So hence, they have violated that Law.

Why the need to remove the Children every chance they get? :shock:
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

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Postby Gary Shaw » Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:33 pm

Bob,

I agree with your points and opinion.
The two enemies of the people are criminals and the government, so let us tie the second down with the Constitution so the second will not become a legalized version of the first.

Thomas Jefferson

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Postby Bob_Lynn » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:05 pm

I didn't think you would disagree Gary, I just wanted to expand on your post and try to explain to others how they may be able to defend themselves against these treasonous criminals.

Nothing is ever guaranteed, especially not in a criminally corrupt racketeering system. But you cannot defend hearsay with your own hearsay. You can however, expose the criminality on the court record and take it to the higher courts. But you must, must assert your Constitutionally protected rights in the lower court first or they will trample all over you and you will not be able to have anything to appeal if you don't. In many cases, your only chance, especially if and when it gets to the TPR, is the appeal. This is a critical concept.
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. Edward R. Murrow

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Postby Bob_Lynn » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:14 pm

Frustrated wrote:"We needed to remove the Children based on exguiuating circumstances, and were in imminent danger/risk of Harm so they are in need of PROTECTION."

Don't you hear that often?


Yes, that's always the excuse for circumventing the Constitution. Just saying removal was necessary due to exigent circumstances or imminent danger is not enough, they have to prove the children were at extreme risk of life and limb. And they have exactly 24 hours to prove it in front of a judge when they seize the children on the basis of such claims, or they must return the children. When children are not in imminent danger, they should have plenty of time to obtain a warrant that can only be issued UPON PROBABLE CAUSE.
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. Edward R. Murrow

redhot9500
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Postby redhot9500 » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:44 pm

Wow that was all alot to read and comprehend seeing that i have never been this before in the 11 years of having my babies without the help of their fathers who now have them again i do get to see my daughter often and i talk to her daily she is the 6 yr old however my sons father (the one with the abusive background) has changed his phone number and noone can get ahold of him which has me very scared of what hes doing, he took him from me when i had my son cuz they claimed i was only 17 when i had him so there for i didnt have rights to my own kid! 3000 dollars to get my baby back that was in 1995. By the way everyone i am in Michigan and boy is it hard to find a lawyer around here with out having 10 grand to put down! Now when i went to this meeting when they had me place the babies with their fathers there was NO mention of anything about 72 hours! But the CPS worker said we WOULD be in court with in 2-3 weeks i called down town to the juvinile court and they have not even filed the petition yet?!?!?!? It was 3 weeks friday since my life was taken away. Also to add my x husband who has my daughter has called and left messages with the CPS worker and she has not returned his calls?!?!? But yet the abusive father has disappeared that i know of and there has been no court date made i just dont get it and to me yes it sounds like my kids have been taken away from me illegally. I did talk to my sons counselor yesterday and she told me she talked to the CPS worker who was also rude to her (the counselor) and the CPS workers reason for removing my kids was because my 6 yr old said that she was 5 when she was violated and i allowed my cousin to stay in the house afterwards but i didnt even find out "ANYTHING" happend til the 3rd of january!!!! And i did some research on the forensic interview stuff and of course i had a feeling .... How can they ask a 6 year old how old they were when "it" happend"? THEY CANT go by that noone under the age of 10 can be asked how old they were. I can obviously see i need help badly something is definately going wrong here. I dont mean to sound dumb to all of you but i honestly dont know what to do i need HELP? But i will continue to reread all of the replys from above and thank u all for all that we have realized so far!! :shock:

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Postby Marina » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:57 am

Email or call people at the state level of Social Services. Ask them who has "legal custody" of your child. Ask them if social services has "legal custody" of your child. Confront them. If they say that you still have "legal custody," then you have to report a kidnapping to the the police.

Abuse done a caretaker has to be investigated by CPS, but abuse done by a non-caretaker has to be investigated by the police. Emphasize that YOU are the caretaker, and you did NOT voluntarily designate the father as caretaker. CPS assumed the role of caretaker, but will not take responsibility for it. Therefore YOU are the caretaker, and your child has been kidnapped by a non-caretaker.

The father may have "physical custody," but if you have "legal custody" then you have the right to control where the child lives, not social services. As long as you have "legal custody," you are responsible for anything wrong that happens while the child is in the "physical custody" of the father, and social services will deny having any responsiblity for anything that happens while the child is in the "physical custody" of the father.

Go to the courthouse and file for FULL custody, with no unsupervised visitation from the father.

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Postby Marina » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:52 am

Also, file a petition for child support, as insurance against the next 7 years. I read recently that child support petitions are not retroactive. This may force the issue of where the father and child are located.

It it the job of social services to find the father, to serve him with child support papers. If they say they cannot find him and are washing their hands of the case, then maybe this becomes a domestic issue instead of a child welfare issue.

Try to find out where or if he is enrolled in school. If CPS does not have legal custody, then you have a right to know. If you can't get any results, then call his former school and report him truant. Confront the school about them not notifying you about him being truant. Get his school records, find out if social workers came to the school, or father came to the school. Ask if his school records have been transferred to a new school.

Try to find out any health care obtained for him since he has been gone. If you have private health insurance, call them. Also, use his social security number to call Medicaid and find out if he has obtained any health care without your consent.

Don't mention CPS when asking for all this information, since they won't take responsibility for anything.
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Postby Frustrated » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:07 pm

It does sound like a Kidnapping to me. CPS in fact helped the Father do it. and he disappeared and they have no contacts or whereabouts of him? In fact, I think CPS aided and abetted the Father to take the Son and he is gone already.

Like Marina says, find out if you still have Legal Custody. Then you can do something about it.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

redhot9500
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Postby redhot9500 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:33 pm

My rights have not been taken away from me yet and the kids are sill in my custody, they are what was to be titleld are just in teporary placement with their fathers. But from the counselor she was notofied that the abusive father got a paper from the CPS worker that he has temporary custoday dont understand why because my x husbad didnt get anything??? All kinds of different stuff is going on behind my back how did this happ to me??? They are some cruel people!

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Postby Frustrated » Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:44 pm

redhot9500 wrote:My rights have not been taken away from me yet and the kids are sill in my custody, they are what was to be titleld are just in teporary placement with their fathers. But from the counselor she was notofied that the abusive father got a paper from the CPS worker that he has temporary custoday dont understand why because my x husbad didnt get anything??? All kinds of different stuff is going on behind my back how did this happ to me??? They are some cruel people!


If that is true that you still have Legal Custody then you can report about this illegal action. The reason why CPS gave to the Abusive Father because they knew that you had an Order and supervised visits and all that. So they are protecting themselves and gave temp custody order to him, so they won't be held liable for some legal actions against them.
He has Physical Custody. But you STILL HAVE LEGAL Custody. You can report to see if there is any illegal breach to the Order that you currently have. (denied parental rights and supevised visits and the Custody Order).

Find out. Ask the FBI to look into it.
It is easy to steal from poor people. But don't do it. And don't take advantage of those poor people in court. The Lord is on their side. He supports them and he will take things away from any person that takes from them.~ Proverbs 22:22

jackiew75
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Postby jackiew75 » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:38 am

Bob_Lynn wrote:[
Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Sadly, this part really isnt true from my experience. We are fighting Amendment rights currently during the Adjudication hearing and the judge has made it very clear that this is family court and not criminal or civil.... You are just not entitled to the same protection under the Constitution when you are in family court.

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Postby Marina » Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:22 am

Redhot,

Who told you that the kids are still in your legal custody?

Who told you that this is a temporary placement? Get this in writing from some official.

Specifically, who is responsible for placing them? Get this in writing from some official.

Specifically, how is that person authorized to place them? Get this in writing from some official.

Can you go to your son's school and talk to him?

If you haven't gone to court, then there can't be a restraining order against you, therefore you can have unsupervisized visitation. If they say you can't, then get it in writing.

They will manipulate you as long as you obey without questioning them. You don't have to do anything without a court order.

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Postby Marina » Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:46 am

Call or go to your children's schools and daycare, and ask them if there are any papers on file which say that you cannot have contact with your children or pick them up from school. If there are, then ask them to make you a copy.

Here is information from the federal website on what legal custody means. It means that YOU have the legal right to decide where your child lives. Since the court is the only one who can transfer legal custody to someone else, then having your child with an abusive relative is VOLUNTARY on your part. Let them know that you no longer volunteer, and go and get your children back.

Make the social workers produce a court order saying that the children cannot be with you, or you will go and get your children. You no longer VOLUNTEER.

They know they do not have a case against YOU, the caregiver, that will hold up in court. That is why they are manipulating you into having others as caregivers, because they can make a better case against the others.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/f_kinshi/f_kinshia.cfm

Legal custody refers to the legal right to make decisions about the children, such as where they live. Parents have legal custody of their children unless they voluntarily give custody to someone else (e.g., the parent is sent overseas) or a court takes this right away and gives it to someone else. For instance, a court may give legal custody to a relative or to a child welfare agency. Whoever has legal custody can enroll the children in school, give permission for medical care, and give other legal consents.

The same person does not necessarily have both physical and legal custody. For instance, as a grandparent, you may have physical custody of your grandchildren because they live with you, but their mother may still have legal custody or the State agency may have legal custody.

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Postby Bob_Lynn » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:37 am

jackiew75 wrote:Sadly, this part really isnt true from my experience. We are fighting Amendment rights currently during the Adjudication hearing and the judge has made it very clear that this is family court and not criminal or civil.... You are just not entitled to the same protection under the Constitution when you are in family court.


That's why you must challenge the jurisdiction of the court. Unconstitutional courts have no jurisdiction in America and they will do whatever they want if you allow them to by failing to challenge jurisdiction. The judge took the Oath of Office to protect your constitutional rights and he is now telling you that he is violating his Oath of Office and committing sedition. Is what the judge said in the transcript of the court record? Find out, but regardless, CHALLENGE JURISDICTION!

If you need further information on how to go about a Constitutional Defense, please review the information on the LIFE website called The Family Court Hearing - A Constitutional Defense at http://www.life-vs-cps.com/index_files/Page357.htm
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. Edward R. Murrow

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Postby Marina » Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:18 pm

Explanation of Federal Law on removing a child to Out of Home Care.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/outofhome/overview.cfm

Courts must approve all decisions to remove children from their homes to ensure reasonable efforts were made.

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If this is true, then CPS's placement of your son with his abusive father is illegal.

jackiew75
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Postby jackiew75 » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:20 pm

This was challenged but the judge ruled against many of our Amendment rights... the right to face our accusors (they from Oregon and we are now in NH), the right to live freely, etc. It is just a reminder that this is family court....

For us, our situation is a bit complicated..... But wait, its complicated because we are dealing with allegations three thousand miles away and dealing with a corrupt detective as well as corrupt CPS.....

Also, we have been told over and over how lucky we are to have the judge we have, and the attorneys we have for that matter. The judge has been more than fair even if we dont like all of his decisions. After all, what judge would look at the ex parte petition filed against us (and it was BAD and full of lies), while the children are in foster care for 7 days and then give the children back to us at the preliminary hearing? We certainly dont want to piss this man off.... he has been pretty fair.


Everyone needs to fight according to their situation... For us to go in there and challenge jurisdiction in our situation would be like handing our kids over....He would not take kindly to this.

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Postby Bob_Lynn » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:48 pm

I didn't know you have your children so I agree with you. If and when they have your children, you must fight agressively to get them back. That means using all appropriate legal means at your disposal.

Regardless of anyone's opinion, including mine, you must do what's in your best interest. No one knows the situation better than those involved and no one knows the best path to take but those who must make the decisions.
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. Edward R. Murrow


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