TPR & relinquishing rights

[cookiemonsterx3]

What are the pros and cons of TPR and relinquishment in IL?

[Greegor]

What are the pros and cons of TPR and relinquishment in IL?

The Termination itself or the hearing process?

Losing contact with your child forever is grim.
Most people see it as comparable to a death sentence.
Often it certainly is the death of the family.

The Process?

You get to be HEARD, which in some cases is a big deal.
call lots of witnesses, cross examine them,

Did the state meet their obligations to try to
resolve the problems?

Did they give you the required "Family Active Participation
in the FORMATION of the Services Plan"?

Did they RIG any of the services?

Their goal is to prove the child can't be returned.

The burden of proof is "CLEAR AND CONVINCING" 75%
but they might try to cling to the lesser state standard
(Preponderance 51%) if you let them get away with it.

You need a really GOOD attorney if you want to fight this.

Usually the state nitwits don't start TPR hearings
if they don't know they can win.

We beat them at TPR.

This proved the child COULD go home, but they didn't send her.
It's a rotten system.

If you SLAM DUNK them they tend to send the kid home.

It takes a good attorney!
Or a really good job of self representation..

[cookiemonsterx3]

Well, I'm told that this is the worst possible scenario in cases where the parents loose against CPS. That's why I was asking what the difference is. Someone had told me that if you relinquish your rights (when all else fails) you have a better chance of having a relationship with your kids in the future. Is this true? Is that a court order?

[Marina]

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What kind of out-of-home care are you talking about?

Adoption, foster care, kinship care, etc.

Visitation and child support are the main issues. For example, if a parent consents to adoption by a relative, then that would be voluntary relinquishment of parental rights. There is a question about whether the relative would be qualified to adopt, if the child was in the System. The adoption may be an open adoption and the parent may still be able to visit if the parent does not have drug problems, etc. But the child would not be eligible for adoption subsidies, depending on the state. If a grandparent adopts the child, this may be a hardship. The child may be eligible for TANF and Medicaid though.

If a parent named a relative as a guardian, then this would also have to be approved by social services if the child was in the System. If it was approved, then there would be an issue of child support. If the relative applied for welfare, then social services would have to go after the parent for child support.

If there is a termination of parental rights, then the child would qualify for adoption subsidies, but then afterwards the parent has no say in who can adopt the child, and relatives no longer have legal standing to be considered for adoption. Under federal law, children in this situation have to be considered for out-of-state adoptions.

Some states have Subsidized Kinship Care or Subsidized Guardianship. Under these programs, the parent can choose a relative who qualifies to have custody of the child, and the child can still receive the equivalent of foster care or adoption subsidies.

Under the Subsidized Guardianship, a relative, foster parent or maybe an interested person could qualify to become a permanent guardian and the child would qualify for subsidies. The parent could still visit the child indefinitely, based on the parent's condition and the terms of visitation, kind of like in divorce custody proceedings.

Go the "Child Welfare Information Gateway" and go the sections on out-of-home care and permanency, and there should be links to your state in various places. Also on the main page there are links to the state statutes.

The answer to your question depends on your state, the type of out-of-home care, and the financial condition of the out-of-home care.

Also, if this is a case of a child accessing mental health services, then a parent should not have to relinquish custody for this.

If you think the child should not be in out-of-home care at all, then that is another subject.
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[cookiemonsterx3]

Thank you, that is a lot of information and resources I did not know. I will look through all of this.

[rlfroo]

Cookie, I will give my perspective from a foster mom who has adopted. I have adopted both ways, reliquishment, and also a TPR. With the parent that reliquished we keep contact. I speak to her every few months and send pictures all the time. On the TPR, it got quite ugly and the parent became violent and turned on me, after I spent two years trying to assist her to get her child back. That one we have no contact with at all, for the saftey of our family. She has since given birth to two other drug addicted children. One of those is in horrible condition and they doubt she will make it to her first birthday. Greegor is right, even where I live CPS does not bring a case to TPR unless they know they are going to win. It is a huge battle but one worth fighting for. When the terminate the rights of the parents they are also terminating any attatchments to relatives. In my experience as a Foster/Adoptive mom, and also a mentor and a trainer to both biological families and adoptive families, what I have found works best for all is honest and open communication. No judging and no blaming of anyone. I recently sent two children back to their families, because I followed my own advice. I never judged the parents or blamed them, and they offered me the same. Together we worked hard and the children were returned quite quickly. One child was returned to a mother in re-hab. This was the first time this had ever been done in this county. I also recently moved here and I shared to the social worker my past experience of this working to the benifit of the child and the parents. She said the judges here would never allow it, but she would give it a chance. She did and the judge granted it. Both mother and child are doing very well. I am an advocate for parents working to gether for what is best for all parties involved. Most of the time it is for runification of the children, sometimes because of the nature of the case that can not happen. But if everyone would work together and be honest and positive, more kids would be reunited with their familes and CPS did what they should, every one would be better off. I hope I live long enough to see that happen. Good luck and God Bless

[glass]

a looong time ago, when i was served with court papers saying that they would terminate my rights, i didnt know what to do...we had to keep going to court up until the trial date. then at the last minute, i had my attorney tell the judge that i would agree to most of what they were saying if they would take that off the table. i ended up getting my 2 youngest children back a month later, and then my older children about a year later (which was totally wrong) im not one to say you should bow down to them but if they can come up with a workable plan that you can agree with, i would go that route. my plan was that i had to take a 6 week parenting class, and get a psych evaluation, and that was it. other than that, i never saw much of my worker, which was good and bad at the same time, in retrospect.

[Greegor]

Making the "deal with the devil" generally doesn't end well.
A famous author wrote a story about how these went.
It had such an impact on English lit that their name is
linked to that sort of a tricky bargain.

Perhaps you have heard of a "Faustian bargain"..

If you're GUILTY and they have you "dead to rights"
this might be a viable tactic.

If you're INNOCENT and the case is based on unproven garbage,
the "Winning through surrender" tactic is VERY questionable.

The Foster who helped a parent after TPR?
If they get a TPR my impression is they also
set up a long term NO CONTACT ORDER.
Certainly a Foster/Adopter who allows any contact
after a TPR is violating some sort of policy that
could get them some extreme hostility from the
CPS agency and court, like CPS starting a case ON THEM
and possibly other action.

Are people trying to make TPR seem like it's
less serious or less final (short of appeal) than it really is?

Voluntary Termination of Parental Rights would
so RARELY be a smart tactic that I see this as a bit
like somebody pointing out that Cyanide can
under controlled conditions be used to CURE a disease.
Is it somebody's intent to disarm the appropriate fears
about Cyanide? (TPR) ???

Perhaps there are some bizarre circumstances where
TPR can work out for reunification, but let's not
sell TPR as a viable tactic without some very exacting
explanations about the exact special case and
exactly how this works out for reunification.

[Marina]

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Can you document or give a link of an example of a NO CONTACT ORDER after TPR?

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[rlfroo]

I have never heard of this myself and I have been a foster mom for several years. Once a child is adopted the adoptive parents legally become the parent and it is their choice if they want contact with the biological family or not. In some cases this is good other cases it is not. If violence is an issue then personally I would not want contact with bio families. But children that have been adopted want to know who their family is as some point. If one has a good relationship with them it is easier to faciliate this later on. Everyone should be looking out for the best interest of the child. If it is safe to have a relationship with the birth families then go for it. If it is not then don't. I think it is all a personal choice.

[tnradmom]

In Tennessee, (which I know the question is about IL) once a TPR is in effect the bio parent can have no contact with the child. They lose ALL rights. They can't send letters, can't call, can't check school records or doctor records, nothing. The exchange is the bio parent no longer is accountable for child support or medical bills and therapy bills.

It's only under extreme conditions that they are to do TPR... but they were talking about it at our 3 month review. The thing I didn't understand there is they brought it up but also said he would be home by the time school started this fall.

Sorry, side tracked...

Anyhow. In TN, once it's TPR that's it. You are no longer the child's parent. Once the child turns 18, obviously there is nothing the courts can do to stop contact, but if your child is 5 at the time... that's 13 years.

[desperatemom3]

i was given a choice: surrender my parental rights voluntarily OR have them TERMINATED...what was i supposed to do? i surrendered..BUT i questioned my lawyer on everything and had it all explained CLEARLY...DSS IS NOW TRYING TO LIMIT CONTACT WHICH WAS MY OWN CONDITION OF SURRENDER...WHICH I DID IN FACT MAKE PART OF THE COURT ORDER...I WANTED TO KEEP CONTACT/COMMUNICATION RIGHTS AND HAVE ALL OF HER RECORDS...SCHOOL, MEDICAL, ETC...YOU CAN DO THIS..IT IS LEGAL..FIGHT UNTIL YOU ARE BACKED INTO THAT TYPE OF CORNER..I DID..EVEN THOUGH IN THE END I LOST COMPLETELY

[Frustrated]

It sounds like an Open Adoption and your parental rights are indeed terminated but you still have rights to know about your child's welfare, school, pictures and contact. It is called Open Adoption.

Sounds like your Lawyer did not do a good job though. Surrender? or face termination? That sounds like extortion and coercion, THAT IS BY LAW AGAINST THE LAW< AND IT IS A CRIME TO EXTORT AND THREATEN A CLIENT WITH SUCH THINGS. They are not supposed to threaten you with such things. You surrendered because you were threateaned being terminated? It has to go either way, or nothing. It does not matter, your rights were terminated whether you surrendered or not. But still, you were threatened with extortion and coercion. and your Lawyer HELPED CPS by doing this. Your Lawyer STINKS!

You got extorted and coericed. You can still get an Appeal on this. You can over turn this decision. It is VERY RARE, but CAN BE POSSIBLE! It happened to one family before. I forget where, I believe it was out from Texas.