Vegan Child Abuse???

[Frustrated]

I read this very interesting article about Strict Vegeterian Family feeding their Children only Vegetables and Fruits, and NOT MEAT.

And now they are calling it Vegan Child Abuse. There are two interesting article about that. I wonder what CPS thinks of this one? Another idea to put new allegations? Or merely does Vegan Parents still have PARENTAL RIGHTS?????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4282257.stm

Vegan Child Abuse
Child Abuse by Vegan Parents....

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/child_abuse.html


What are your thought on this?

[lostintranslation]

Hmm, very interesting subject.

I would think that as long as the children in a Vegan family weren't malnourished, cps has no case. There are vitamins and other supplements that contain no meat or dairy products that can be given to provide the components of a diet that meat/dairy products usually provide. If the children are malnourished because of the Vegan lifestyle, and a report to cps is made, dietary counseling with a registered dietician would be appropriate but not a neglect case or removal of the children; there would be no reason for neglect or removal as long as the parents agreed to the meeting(s) with a dietician and the suggested supplements.

[Frustrated]

Good point.

As long the Children ARE EATING. What's wrong with that? There are OTHER WAYS to subsitutue the needed nutrients for the Children to take.

Take Soy Products for instance. No milk and yet still has high protein in it. Tofu, same thing. There are other replacement supplements to take. There are people with religious right that cannot eat Meat. Jewish and Muslims can't eat certain Meats.

These Children ARE EATING. That is the difference. It would have been a difference if they are starving, and NOT EATING and that would be making a case of Malnorishment. There are standards where they have to meet. They simply follow the Vegeterian Food Book and get a Dietican for it.

Even so, the Hospitals give out Toast for the ones that just woke up from Asethisia (sp?) and NO Food taken.

For YEARS, People had eaten just Bread and Water and still survived. They also eat oranges and other stuff to cure scurrvy and diseases.
I do believe that Bread has some miracle nutrients in it and has almost have everything in it. Bread has been around for Centuries.

Cows and Chicken are ridiculed with Mad Cow Diseases and Bird Flu. Birds has West Nile Virus in it. Do we get to eat it? No. All of them are culled and we find other ways to eat safely like Fish.

Fish are acceptable as it has Omega 3 in it and has valuable nutrients in it. Doctors say it will make the Baby smarter if the Mother eats few Fish in a week while pregnant.

The Question belies to what happens if ALL MEATS ARE ridiculed with Mad Cow Diseases and Bird Flu, what are we going to eat?
Of course, we eat what's left and what is safe and what's not safe.

[Momoffor]

The BS flag that I find with the article, is the fact that the professor only brings up African villages. (Third world country) where thier staple is corn and beans. I am sure that often some of these children went without meals, had no fresh fruits and veggies, and had no access to items such as soy or tofu. Muchless, access to vitamins. So of course any change in the diet where they actually get the nutrients that are not present is going to have positive findings.

Its bs and in my eyes propoganda...from where else, ...the US Department of Agriculture .....(Goes hand in hand with The American Beef Council)

[Frustrated]

I suspect that these Children that died, but did in fact eat something but I don't think they died of malnorishment. I think they died of some form of diseases like Cancer and other ailing Diseases.
Take a Baby for instance, 6 months old as they say that he died. How can he be vegeterian if he ate pablum cereal and soy milk? 6 months old eats alot of vegetables and fruits from Gerber Canned foods. I suspect that he died with something else. Even a Baby as young as 3 months can live without foods, and live only on Milk or Breast Milk. 1 to 3 months cannot be introduced to foods as digestion has not been formed. 3 to 4 months can be introduced to cereals such as Pablum cereals and Soy Milk.

I suspect that I think he died of some other health problem such as Heart Disease or Cancer or something else. I have a friend that had a Baby that died and they found out that he had a hole in his Heart. I have a Nephew that died and he was only 1 years old. He had Brain Cancer. It runs in the Family.

People still eat and can still survive, even on little things. I would question for those that never ate and they will just might die of starvation. You are right, the third world countries only live on bread and water and still survived. AS LONG these people eat all the essential nutrients properly and it should be fine. I think it is also BS as well. People has been vegeterians for Centuries. Meats had turned up with Diseases such as Bird Flu and Mad Cow Diseases and one Girl died in the USA from Mad Cow Disease.

There are no wrongs and there are also no rights. The importance is that everyone gets to eat something and STILL EAT. Then there is no problem there. I would question if someone is NOT eating at all then we have a problem here.

[lostintranslation]

Yeah but in third world countries like Africa, a malnourished child can and often do die due to common illnesses like a cold. Diseases associated with malnourishment and starvation run rampant in third world countries (scurvy, rickets, etc). Those diseases left untreated will eventually kill a child. Their little systems haven't built up enough storage of essential vitamins and minerals. Take calcium for example. We get it everyday even in the most simplistic form. However, kids over there don't. A depleted calcium level will lead to the breakdown of muscle. What is the heart? A muscle. Without the needed calcium, the heart will eventually break down causing cardiac failure. Cardiac failure caused directly by malnourishment.

[Momoffor]

People still eat and can still survive, even on little things. You are right, the third world countries only live on bread and water and still survived. AS LONG these people eat all the essential nutrients properly and it should be fine.

You misunderstood what I meant. I meant the article was BS because of the examples they brought up. For the most part Vegans in the Western World or in developed countries where they have access to just about every food under the sun and then some there will not be any problems at all.

I was referencing 3rd world countries where people often go without meals, or their meal consists of a daily ration of rice or corn. There WILL be problems. There WILL be malnutrition. There WILL be brain damage, and there WILL be death.

Its a biased report. Hell, give someone groceries that never has even the simpliest of meals and yes they are going to thrive on it.

Unlike you, I do believe that those children did die from complications due to malnutrition. Not to say that all vegans are raising their children wrong, some just arent properly trained or have the know how to know what they are truely doing. A few possibly were even born malnurished and/or brain damaged because the mothers didnt eat properly while pregnant. Its not just something you wake up and decide one day without properly researching.

[Frustrated]

Good Point. I agree with you, that's what I said, BS on that article.

I remember watching 20/20 about China, they only eat 80% of the food and still be satisifed. They eat mostly on rice. They live longer and so forth. I don't know how but they do. They do eat Meats. It is about eating just right, and not "full-full" on the stomach. I don't know, they say they only eat when 80% full and can live longer. I don't know how that is possible.

As I am saying it is a very interesting topic here. Most third world countries, Saudis, Arabian, Pakistan, they eat certain foods, and cannot eat certain meats. Whereas South America People only eat vegs and fruits. It all depend where you live.

USA and Canada are the most fast foods and many people are (overweight) and now the Government are complaining that there are too many obseity people around and telling them to "lose weight". If they became vegetarian, they would have lost the weight instaneously without fast foods and exercise properly. (just the humor of it but not seriously and please do not be offended).

I, myself do eat Meats. I am just interested in this topic because it is an interesting topic. Since when the CPS can use this when it is not for neglect and abused Children, now it is something else. That is what I am trying to make a point is that they don't go on neglect or abused cases anymore and would go on this one. We don't see Abused Children all that much anymore now. We are seeing non-existant cases now.

You are right, all the Parents needs is direction to their own Dietican to make sure they are eating proper nutrients. It is NOT necessary to remove Children. Oh yes, that is an added new Services for CPS to direct you to a Dietican!!!! I can vision this one now. Jumping through hoops saying you are not feeding them properly AFTER you SEE the Dietican!

Just like they say your house is not clean enough, and won't direct you to a Housekeeping Service to clean it up.
LOL Just brainstorming this in.

How hard is that? Just offer the Family "Here, this is the Dietican that you can see to feed your Children properly". Removal of Children are not necessary. and then do a follow up to see if the Kid's health improved with added nutrients.
It is NOT that hard! Just like you said, the Parents just needs to be educated.

[cgbr]

I am a raw vegan. I know of many children being raised vegan, some raw vegan, and I don't see it as child abuse in and of itself. These situations are the exception and not the rule, and I'd hate to see anyone's thriving children be removed from their homes.

[Frustrated]

I am a raw vegan. I know of many children being raised vegan, some raw vegan, and I don't see it as child abuse in and of itself. These situations are the exception and not the rule, and I'd hate to see anyone's thriving children be removed from their homes.

I agree. As long they know how to manage proper nutrients and get the essential nutrients and has a Dietican or was educated how to eat properly. I don't think this is a thrive to remove Children. Maybe an offer to Services but that's all. As long the Children has annual Doctor Visits and the Doctor says they are just fine. That's why it is important for Vegan Families to document proof that they are looking in the best interests of their Children by looking after them with a Dietican, Doctors, and whatnots. They had proper essential nutrients already so I can't see why CPS has to be involved.